BROOKS April 19 , Fishing Meeting

[Newellknik]

The Brooks F&G club putting on an information
Night at 7.00 pm at the local legion . For the public
Who are concerned about the eventual closing of all
Fish retention in Area PP 1 .....Govt will be on hand
to address your concerns .
The widening of the already implemented Fish Tax
( the tag system ) is inevitable . Unfortunately the
participation by the young uneducated anglers
In this tax grab has only shown the govt a new
Tax revenue . Soon all water closed to fish keeping
So get that wallet open ,the dippers are fishing .

Be there or forever hold your peace - piece .

[michaelmicallef]

Just remember that the dippers are not going to run this Provence for ever and if they make a few changes while they are in power they can always be changed again when they get the boot. Thank god there is not more" commercial fishing " in this Alberta. And I think any minister that is in charge of making decisions where anglers are involved should be at least able to fillet a fish. Not just push a pen.

[anthony5]

If this meeting is anything like the ones they had in Vulcan(hopefully not), it will be to inform everyone about the changes that have already been made and new ones that are going to be implemented. Hopefully they will consider some of the concerns of the anglers that spend a lot of time fishing these waters.

[PEIslander]

This meeting was initiated by Brooks Fish & Game. It will be probably the forth year in a row we've had the Fisheries Biologist's in to talk about regulation changes, justification for them, answer questions from the membership and attendees, etc.

I've already send along some questions from the membership so the data to answer the questions can be acquired in preparation for the meeting. This should be enough of a cross-section that the Biologists have some idea what else to expect and be prepared for, for the rest of the meeting.

The format will be a presentation first about the reg changes and justification as well as answers to the previously sent questions. After that we open the floor to questions from the crowd. I've got the hall booked from 7-10, so there is lots of time to be heard.

This is anyone in attendance's opportunity to get answers straight from the decision makers.

- Dan

[anthony5]

This is the thing, you are going to get answers, maybe not the ones you were hoping for, but you are going to get answers. Maybe, and just maybe the powers that be, will listen or consider your suggestions for a better fishery, but dont count on it.

[stob]

Originally Posted by Jet

If you don't stand up and be counted, nothing will change.

x2

[trapperdodge]

How long has it been since sport fishing had to endure a bait ban on Newell all the while allowing commercial fishing? You'd be sitting there unable to use bait and buddy would be pulling a net 200' away.
The fishery in AB has been managed to extinction. With few exceptions fishing in AB is sub par and management is to blame.

[Marty S]

Where can I read upon the changes that are coming? So far all I heard is that Chin will be zero retention on walleye. All of PP1 or what's supposed to be coming?

[Couleestalker]

Originally Posted by Marty S

Where can I read upon the changes that are coming? So far all I heard is that Chin will be zero retention on walleye. All of PP1 or what's supposed to be coming?

All the changes are in the 2016 regs

http://www.albertaregulations.ca/fishingregs/

[WayneChristie]

Originally Posted by trapperdodge

How long has it been since sport fishing had to endure a bait ban on Newell all the while allowing commercial fishing? You'd be sitting there unable to use bait and buddy would be pulling a net 200' away.
The fishery in AB has been managed to extinction. With few exceptions fishing in AB is sub par and management is to blame.

this was only for the last derby. it used to be baitless between March 16 to May 8 but they finally closed that time slot.
fishery extinct? I have to take exception with that. there are lots of great fish in Alberta people are too lazy to go look for them

[trapperdodge]

Not sure about the derby I'm talking 10 years ago when we had to go baitless and commercial fishing was going on.
Alberta has more closed water and reduced limits than any place in this country.
Remember when they reduced the pike possession limit from 10 to 1 in one year? That's the type of management I'm talking about.

[Supergrit]

Pike have been resduced yet were I fish the size is less to me it seems every time you put a slot size on fish the fish end up being 1 cm below that size and way to much numbers.

[fish99]

Originally Posted by trapperdodge

Not sure about the derby I'm talking 10 years ago when we had to go baitless and commercial fishing was going on.
Alberta has more closed water and reduced limits than any place in this country.
Remember when they reduced the pike possession limit from 10 to 1 in one year? That's the type of management I'm talking about.

who needs to take 10 pike home?

[Poppa]

Originally Posted by fish99

who needs to take 10 pike home?

Yeah, I'll be honest...I'm not really sure what people are so upset about. I guess maybe I'm from the new generation, but I'm 99% a Catch n Release guy and don't really see the need to have large amounts of "keeper fish" in the regs. Like Wayne said...there's a lotta fish to be had in this province. You just gotta go find 'em. It's not the fisheries that suck in AB, it's just the overall lack of water south of Edmonton.

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by trapperdodge

How long has it been since sport fishing had to endure a bait ban on Newell all the while allowing commercial fishing? You'd be sitting there unable to use bait and buddy would be pulling a net 200' away.
The fishery in AB has been managed to extinction. With few exceptions fishing in AB is sub par and management is to blame.

Managed to extinction? Were you here in the 80s and 90s when the walleye catch rate was 1 walleye per every 20 hours of fishing or worse in many lakes? The average catch rates are over 1 per hour now, and that's on a bad day. I think we've forgotten how collapsed our fisheries were over 20 years ago. And that s despite cresting 4 million people, more boats and RVs sold per capita than anywhere else in North America, and over 300,000 fishing licences sold for a province that has less than 1000 native fish-bearing lakes.

Ask one of the biologists at the meeting how many adult walleye per hectare can be taken out of a decent lake per year on a sustainable basis. He'll likely say somewhere between 2 to 4. Then ask him how many people per hectare fish that lake every season. I bet it will be a lot more than 2 to 4, maybe 10 times that number. What regulations will keep those people from taking more fish in a season than the lake can produce? Factor in illegal harvest and hooking mortality (especially with bait) and the management challenge is even tougher. Then factor in the odd drought and the regular changes in water levels in our reservoirs...then loss of shoreline habitat, algae blooms...

Of course, we could have limits placed on the number of us that can fish a lake per year...but I suspect that wouldn'nt get much love.

Go to the meeting armed with info and an open mind, not anger.
Here are some good sites to check out
http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...ability-index/

http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...g/default.aspx
http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...g/default.aspx

http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...-strategy.aspx

[calgarygringo]

I plan on driving out for this one too.

1. I am still not convinced some of these lakes are as bad as they say based on my own catch rates and others I know. My biggest concern/threat outside of water levels is poaching. I still bet on many of these lakes there is more threats from the amount of fish that taken out illegally than all the legit fishermen.
2. It really bugs me too to hear the means of management here in Alberta is just to shut it down. I was in Winnipeg recently and haven't been back in years. Many told me the fishing now is better than it was when I left there in the late 70's. Lots of Walleye stocking, slot limits and thinking outside the box mentality has made fishing a great sport out there. Could not believe all the stories I heard all week while woking in our Winnipeg location. We need to take some notes from their turn around.
3. People also need to stop whining and get out and explore as mentioned earlier. There are many lakes that fish very well if you get out your regs, Google Earth etc. Alberta Fishing Guide is one of the 10 bucks you can spend. There are many lakes people don't know about and nobody even goes to. I have started going to some the last few years and really opened my eyes. Do some home work and go find them.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by wind drift

Managed to extinction? Were you here in the 80s and 90s when the walleye catch rate was 1 walleye per every 20 hours of fishing or worse in many lakes? The average catch rates are over 1 per hour now, and that's on a bad day. I think we've forgotten how collapsed our fisheries were over 20 years ago. And that s despite cresting 4 million people, more boats and RVs sold per capita than anywhere else in North America, and over 300,000 fishing licences sold for a province that has less than 1000 native fish-bearing lakes.

Ask one of the biologists at the meeting how many adult walleye per hectare can be taken out of a decent lake per year on a sustainable basis. He'll likely say somewhere between 2 to 4. Then ask him how many people per hectare fish that lake every season. I bet it will be a lot more than 2 to 4, maybe 10 times that number. What regulations will keep those people from taking more fish in a season than the lake can produce? Factor in illegal harvest and hooking mortality (especially with bait) and the management challenge is even tougher. Then factor in the odd drought and the regular changes in water levels in our reservoirs...then loss of shoreline habitat, algae blooms...

Of course, we could have limits placed on the number of us that can fish a lake per year...but I suspect that wouldn'nt get much love.

Go to the meeting armed with info and an open mind, not anger.
Here are some good sites to check out
http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...ability-index/

http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...g/default.aspx
http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...g/default.aspx

http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...-strategy.aspx

Thank you! Very well said! And nice to see someone else with some thought/reasoning and no anger.

[huntsfurfish]

One other thing though. And in my opinion, the most important issue. It would be nice to get more money for the Bios and techs, so they can do more test netting and such. It would make decision making easier and faster, allowing for subtle changes rather than from a 3 to zero that many are upset about.

Some test netting was pretty stretched out!

That said that is not on the Bios. That was on the past governments.

Lobby the gov for more money!

[anthony5]

Originally Posted by Jet

All good points, but the fact is, we've gone from a limit 3 to a limit 0 on a many of these lakes. Either mismanagement before or mismanagement now, it's beyond reasonableness and probability to take such drastic action. There wasn't some abnormal amount of people taking fish out of these lakes last season alone.

I'm going to be seeking an answer to this question, and I can't wait to see the attempt and justifications that are made.

I suspect there is some other reasoning behind this, extreme measures like this don't just happen without an underlying cause. Pure speculation, but how much F&W coverage do they have at these lakes, and how has it declined over these last few years?

Good luck with that, hope you get the answers you want and they will listen and take into advisement your input. Because if that actually happens we may just be able to get somewhere with the management of Alberta Fisheries.

[bobalong]

[QUOTE=wind drift;3179695]Managed to extinction? Were you here in the 80s and 90s when the walleye catch rate was 1 walleye per every 20 hours of fishing or worse in many lakes? The average catch rates are over 1 per hour now, and that's on a bad day. I think we've forgotten how collapsed our fisheries were over 20 years ago. And that s despite cresting 4 million people, more boats and RVs sold per capita than anywhere else in North America, and over 300,000 fishing licences sold for a province that has less than 1000 native fish-bearing lakes.

Ask one of the biologists at the meeting how many adult walleye per hectare can be taken out of a decent lake per year on a sustainable basis. He'll likely say somewhere between 2 to 4. Then ask him how many people per hectare fish that lake every season. I bet it will be a lot more than 2 to 4, maybe 10 times that number. What regulations will keep those people from taking more fish in a season than the lake can produce? Factor in illegal harvest and hooking mortality (especially with bait) and the management challenge is even tougher. Then factor in the odd drought and the regular changes in water levels in our reservoirs...then loss of shoreline habitat, algae blooms...

Of course, we could have limits placed on the number of us that can fish a lake per year...but I suspect that wouldn'nt get much love.

Go to the meeting armed with info and an open mind, not anger.




I fished a lot in the 80's and 90's and still do. I am not sure where you fished but in the lakes I was fishing, South Buck, Lac La Lonne, St. Anne, Moose, Slave, Pinehurst, Beaver the catch rates far exceeded 1/20 hours.

Fishing pressure among other factors have all effected the walleye numbers in our province, but by far the most critical has been the lack of funding for re-stocking and still is.

The government basically stopped stocking walleye in 1999 and did start again until 2006 and then only in 1 or 2 lakes. While sitting on the Fisheries Roundtable in 2006 I asked the government reps in attendance this question...Why is it that when you agree that walleye are the most popular game fish in the province you only spent about 200K on walleye stocking and 6.5 million on trout re-stocking. There answer was "that is a good question" unfortunately they did not give an answer, they had one, which was the government will not spend money on walleye stocking, but would not say it. Later that afternoon outside a biologist who was very upset told me this, as he said they get called idiots etc., they are frustrated, but can do little without funding.

The past and apparently previous governments have no long term commitment to our walleye, pike, or perch fisheries in this province. It costs money to monitor and stock our fisheries, they will not spend it. Look at Sk. with hundreds more fisheries and about 1/2 our population and they still stock walleye every year. In 2015, 41 lakes with over 10 million walleye stocked, in 2014, 25 lakes with almost 5 million walleye stocked, that is commitment to your fisheries!!

Lots of good comments on here about what should be done, they were also made 10 years ago and many more, still little to nothing is being done.

I really hope that the meeting goes well and that the people down south get some answers but I have my doubts, as government officials like in the past will not admit that lack of funding is one of the main reasons for the decline in our fisheries.

Many of these meeting are just "feel good" meetings where governments is pretending to be listening to the people, but like already mentioned they have already decided. These meetings just allow the government to say "after consultation with the anglers in the province" we have decided............ Very similar to the big game harvest numbers they collect......."feel good" gesture when the decisions have already been made.

Ask them two questions "how much money is being committed to walleye stocking this year". When there reply is "with the current economic situation in our province, this will probably not be a priority". Then ask them for the past 5 or more years when the economy was good, how much did you spend on walleye stocking, and how many bodies of water did you stock?

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by bobalong

I fished a lot in the 80's and 90's and still do. I am not sure where you fished but in the lakes I was fishing, South Buck, Lac La Lonne, St. Anne, Moose, Slave, Pinehurst, Beaver the catch rates far exceeded 1/20 hours.
Thread is about Southern Alberta and may not apply to all lakes.

Fishing pressure among other factors have all effected the walleye numbers in our province, but by far the most critical has been the lack of funding for re-stocking and still is.
Restocking is most useful for crashed fisheries

The government basically stopped stocking walleye in 1999 and did start again until 2006 and then only in 1 or 2 lakes. While sitting on the Fisheries Roundtable in 2006 I asked the government reps in attendance this question...Why is it that when you agree that walleye are the most popular game fish in the province you only spent about 200K on walleye stocking and 6.5 million on trout re-stocking. There answer was "that is a good question" unfortunately they did not give an answer, they had one, which was the government will not spend money on walleye stocking, but would not say it. Later that afternoon outside a biologist who was very upset told me this, as he said they get called idiots etc., they are frustrated, but can do little without funding.
bolded- Thats an easy one. More bang for the buck and no point in stocking walleye for put and take.


The past and apparently previous governments have no long term commitment to our walleye, pike, or perch fisheries in this province. It costs money to monitor and stock our fisheries, they will not spend it. Look at Sk. with hundreds more fisheries and about 1/2 our population and they still stock walleye every year. In 2015, 41 lakes with over 10 million walleye stocked, in 2014, 25 lakes with almost 5 million walleye stocked, that is commitment to your fisheries!!

Lots of good comments on here about what should be done, they were also made 10 years ago and many more, still little to nothing is being done.

I really hope that the meeting goes well and that the people down south get some answers but I have my doubts, as government officials like in the past will not admit that lack of funding is one of the main reasons for the decline in our fisheries.

Many of these meeting are just "feel good" meetings where governments is pretending to be listening to the people, but like already mentioned they have already decided. These meetings just allow the government to say "after consultation with the anglers in the province" we have decided............ Very similar to the big game harvest numbers they collect......."feel good" gesture when the decisions have already been made.

Ask them two questions "how much money is being committed to walleye stocking this year". When there reply is "with the current economic situation in our province, this will probably not be a priority". Then ask them for the past 5 or more years when the economy was good, how much did you spend on walleye stocking, and how many bodies of water did you stock?
Stocking walleye as a feel good solution is not a solution either.

At any rate, funding is the main issue.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

At any rate, funding is the main issue.

Restocking is most useful for crashed fisheries
Actually it is most useful in preventing a fishery from crashing

Thats an easy one. More bang for the buck and no point in stocking walleye for put and take.
Sk. does


Stocking walleye as a feel good solution is not a solution either.

Stocking walleye is not a feel good solution, it is now and will probably always be necessary from now on, to sustain our walleye fisheries. You may look at stocking walleye as expensive, I look at it as an investment, not only in our fisheries but in user dollars. How many angler dollars do you think are lost every year to SK,BC because of our governments refusal to enhance our own fisheries?

[Newellknik]

With no expenditure . You are a mushroom and have been
Treated as such . Alberta has operated in the dark ages
of resource management for decades . I'm sure the dippers
Have no idea what to do with this mess .
Test netting , that's a joke ,the PC s just made that up
As they went along . All plans are the whim of the biologists .
I doubt angling in the South can be saved .
Stay mad , let them know you are PO d , don't be a *****
Liberal ,
Quoting Alberta Govt fictional science on here is pure non
sense . The ESRD s credibility rating with most long time
Alberta Fishers and Hunters is a big fat Zero .

Put and take is the answer . We should have the best Walleye
Fishing in Canada in our reservoir systems in this province .
Unfortunately our govt for the last 44 years has operated like
Quebec .....just cashing the cheques . That water belongs to
You the taxpayer . Unfortunately the WID , EID etc have become
More powerful than our Government.
Bureaucratic incompetence, that's all you have !

[cdkeim]

I realize that it's like comparing apples and oranges(different licensing, gov't involvement, etc etc), but food for thought. Montana population is roughly 1 million. Alberta population is roughly 4.4 million. Alberta total stocking in 2014 was 7.2 million roughly of all species, and Montanas stocking was roughly 50 million total stocking. (Montana fish and wildlife and Alberta govt numbers). I know its not the same thing, but it certainly is a significant difference.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by cdkeim

I realize that it's like comparing apples and oranges(different licensing, gov't involvement, etc etc), but food for thought. Montana population is roughly 1 million. Alberta population is roughly 4.4 million. Alberta total stocking in 2014 was 7.2 million roughly of all species, and Montanas stocking was roughly 50 million total stocking. (Montana fish and wildlife and Alberta govt numbers). I know its not the same thing, but it certainly is a significant difference.

And what were the budgets for them?

[cdkeim]

Honestly, I didn't go into it much further than that. I'm sure the budgets might be very different, and it isn't a completely fair comparison, especially as I don't have more info than that, just interesting numbers. Obviously, Montana values it's Tourism and Outdoor activities, so they may have a significant budget allotted to it.

[trapperdodge]

I fish probably 100 days a year - here in AB and across the country. And yes I was here in the 80's-90's and long before that. I agree you don't need to kill 10 pike a day. But that was what the regs allowed until one day some bio woke up and said the pike fishery was in trouble and the next year the possession limit went from 10 to 1. Huh? I'm not too lazy to find fish or angry.

What I am saying is that the fishery has been mismanaged to the point of crisis. We have what 800 lakes? This isn't Saskatchewan or Ontario. With few exceptions our water bodies are shallow prairie lakes and delicate eastern slope creeks. We don't have the benefit of big shield lakes. Our fishery is unique to this country and requires a different type of management. We haven't had that management - that's what I'm saying.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by bobalong

Restocking is most useful for crashed fisheries
Actually it is most useful in preventing a fishery from crashing
Yes it can help there too. But have the lakes in question crashed or crashing? Answer is no.
Thats an easy one. More bang for the buck and no point in stocking walleye for put and take.
Sk. does
And what effect has it had? Was it necessary? Pressures? And more.

Stocking walleye as a feel good solution is not a solution either.

Stocking walleye is not a feel good solution, it is now and will probably always be necessary from now on, to sustain our walleye fisheries. You may look at stocking walleye as expensive, I look at it as an investment, not only in our fisheries but in user dollars. How many angler dollars do you think are lost every year to SK,BC because of our governments refusal to enhance our own fisheries?

Good point, but if walleye is stocked for a reason, not just for the sake of stocking. Stocking can be part of the solution, but is not necessarily the solution by its self. If there is good recruitment coming along with good year stocks but heavy loss on mature(spawners) fish, stocking wont hurt, but is not the issue or solution. Stocking is expensive for walleye and you dont want to misuse what they do stock either. As I said, they need money for all that .

If they get more money, there is money for test netting, and then there could be money for walleye stocking programs again. And with enough money they can maybe change from self sustaining to put and take walleye fisheries.

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by bobalong

I fished a lot in the 80's and 90's and still do. I am not sure where you fished but in the lakes I was fishing, South Buck, Lac La Lonne, St. Anne, Moose, Slave, Pinehurst, Beaver the catch rates far exceeded 1/20 hours.

Fishing pressure among other factors have all effected the walleye numbers in our province, but by far the most critical has been the lack of funding for re-stocking and still is.

The government basically stopped stocking walleye in 1999 and did start again until 2006 and then only in 1 or 2 lakes. While sitting on the Fisheries Roundtable in 2006 I asked the government reps in attendance this question...Why is it that when you agree that walleye are the most popular game fish in the province you only spent about 200K on walleye stocking and 6.5 million on trout re-stocking. There answer was "that is a good question" unfortunately they did not give an answer, they had one, which was the government will not spend money on walleye stocking, but would not say it. Later that afternoon outside a biologist who was very upset told me this, as he said they get called idiots etc., they are frustrated, but can do little without funding.

The past and apparently previous governments have no long term commitment to our walleye, pike, or perch fisheries in this province. It costs money to monitor and stock our fisheries, they will not spend it. Look at Sk. with hundreds more fisheries and about 1/2 our population and they still stock walleye every year. In 2015, 41 lakes with over 10 million walleye stocked, in 2014, 25 lakes with almost 5 million walleye stocked, that is commitment to your fisheries!!

Lots of good comments on here about what should be done, they were also made 10 years ago and many more, still little to nothing is being done.

I really hope that the meeting goes well and that the people down south get some answers but I have my doubts, as government officials like in the past will not admit that lack of funding is one of the main reasons for the decline in our fisheries.

Many of these meeting are just "feel good" meetings where governments is pretending to be listening to the people, but like already mentioned they have already decided. These meetings just allow the government to say "after consultation with the anglers in the province" we have decided............ Very similar to the big game harvest numbers they collect......."feel good" gesture when the decisions have already been made.

Ask them two questions "how much money is being committed to walleye stocking this year". When there reply is "with the current economic situation in our province, this will probably not be a priority". Then ask them for the past 5 or more years when the economy was good, how much did you spend on walleye stocking, and how many bodies of water did you stock?

Info from Fisheries:
Average walleye catch rates at Lac Ste. Anne:
1984 - 13 walleye per 100 hours fishing
1995 - 14 walleye per 100 hours
2001 - 8 walleye per 100 hours

Moose Lk. 1986 - 12 walleye per 100 hours
Cold Lake 1986 - 2 walleye per 100 hours
Baptiste Lake 1984 - 5 walleye per 100 hours
Wolf Lake 1988 - 5 walleye per 100 hours...

I may have exaggerated for some lakes, but on average, it used to suck. Bad. It's waaay better now.

Stocking didn't recover those walleye populations. Keeping fish from leaving the lake did. Ask the bios why put-and-take walleye stocking isn't done in Alberta. They'll tell you it used to be, for many years, but was evaluated and abandoned for being costly with poor results. Stocked fish had poor survival and spawning success. Putting stocked fish on top of existing populations didn't produce desired results, so the walleye stocking program was redirected to restoring lost or nearly lost populations, like Pigeon, Lac la Biche and Wabamun, with the approach being to stock them intensively for multiple years in a row and then monitor for spawning success. Alberta does have a walleye stocking program, I think it's just become more focused and effective. Like any specialty tool, it's not used all the time, but it's the right one for the specific job. I'm happy to not see walleye stocking waste my money.

[Newellknik]

The reason ,the Alberta Govt version of put and take
Does not work according to them ; is that as usual
They do a half azzed job. 5 states south of us , Idaho
Montana , N & S Dakota , Minnesota have been putting
And taking Walleyes for years . Today they have a fantastic
Fishery . But they do it right .
The statement that you don't want an Alberta Govt to
waste your money makes you certifiable . It's what they
do best . There are just to many dippers on here now
to have a rational discussion . The reason , they believe
their own BS , and quote it like its biblical.