To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question! - Page 12

HunterDave · #**331** 12-19-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

A maximum draw weight on crossbows would seem unfair to some people.It would be like putting a velocity limit on rifles.

Oh, there's no doubt that some people would think that it's unfair.

What if you thought of it in terms of a caliber limit instead of a velocity limit? No, wait a minute, let's not go there. I was just bouncing ideas around thinking that there might be a way to ease into crossbows becoming legal to hunt with during archery season.

RobinHood · #**332** 12-19-2010, 12:58 PM

Ironically, all the hard work, time and thousands of dollars that bow hunters have put forward throughout the years, via organization like the ABA, will be in vain. The average hunter has no understanding of what surpassed to achieve what some envious people call unfair advantage. The creation of seasons and bowzones wasn't for the few privileged to enjoy it. It was created with more opportunity for everyone, who wanted the challenge. Now crossbows, WITHOUT AN ORGANIZATION of their own, (Pressure from American manufacturers) will ride the coattails and reap the benefits of Bow only organizations, and use essential their money. Imagine you built your home over numerous years, sweat, money, time and the huge sacrafises, and commitments all put forward, only for a hoarder to move in with you! There are no Crossbow only hunters in Alberta, and if there is it's a insignificant amount. There isn't any clubs or organizations who have donated their time and money to the economy and natural resources. The only thing driving this is bitterness towards another hunting group and manufactures greed.

Organizations like the ABA have worked hard to come up with solutions that would make ALL hunters in Alberta happy. And , Yes it does include crossbows and a couple of options were also to give up some of the Archery season for crossbows. All alternative solutions were turned down, and given the response of all or nothing, for an organization of hunters that doesn't exist?

#**333** 12-19-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobinHood

Organizations like the ABA have worked hard to come up with solutions that would make ALL hunters in Alberta happy. And , Yes it does include crossbows and a couple of options were also to give up some of the Archery season for crossbows. All alternative solutions were turned down, and given the response of all or nothing, for an organization of hunters that doesn't exist?

And when did all this happen? Who were these offers made to and who turned them down and how was the ABA in the position to make offers? Sorry, I don't buy any of that statement. Who said all or nothing? As you've pointed out, there are no crossbow organizations. Who is it that is speaking for and making decisions for the crossbow hunters?

HunterDave · #**334** 12-19-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony_S

Maybe it's the type of hunting you do...or the manner in which you hunt Dave, I'm not sure. But this one single difference that you seem to regard as minor (amongst others) is HUGE!!
I'm a BIG proponent of 'Spot and Stalk' Bow hunting myself, it's pretty much the only type of Bow hunting I do. Anyways....I can't even count the number of Deer, both White Tail and Mule bucks where I could have had GUARANTEED KILLS with a Crossbow....but I got busted drawing my Bow.
No way in hell you'll ever convince me, or 99% of Bow hunters there's only a minor difference between the two. Ain't gonna happen.

You're right about the way that I hunt making the difference. I hunt in a stand for deer "ambush" and on the ground for moose "calling". I don't spot and stalk but allot of people seem to think that a crossbow is the ultimate for doing that.

My opinion is that there is not a heck of allot more movement drawing a compound bow compared to raising a crossbow to your shoulder. Allot more effort, yes, but movement, no. You can get busted doing either movement, even in a treestand.

If you've never hunted with a crossbow there's no way that you can know for sure that you would have had a garanteed kill if you had one instead of your compound bow. How would you even know?

Besides, why would raising a crossbow to your shoulder not spook a deer but drawing a compound bow would? That is just what you imagine would have happened not what would happen for sure.

Oh, I realize that most longbow/compound bow hunters will never accept crossbows as being in the same category as compound bows. I'll bet that there are longbow hunters out there that feel the same way about compound bows. You can take what I'm saying as BS and if what you know about hunting with a crossbow trumps my experience then so be it. I don't have any hidden agendas like working for a crossbow company or anything else like that and I already am legally able to hunt with one. I don't have anything to gain whatsoever by trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm not really even that passionate about the subject and all that I want to do is address allot of misconceptions about crossbows based on my hunting experience with them.

madatter · #**335** 12-19-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

And when did all this happen? Who were these offers made to and who turned them down and how was the ABA in the position to make offers? Sorry, I don't buy any of that statement. Who said all or nothing? As you've pointed out, there are no crossbow organizations. Who is it that is speaking for and making decisions for the crossbow hunters?

If this info is available then maybe ABA members should share it with the less informed and neutral people like myself.
It might sway me a bit to say no but....
In all the threads about x bolts this is the first time I have ever heard of this.
Still to me as hunting now stands in Alberta the x bolt/primitive weapons hunters are not treated fairly,simple as that.

PoppaW · #**336** 12-19-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madatter

If this info is available then maybe ABA members should share it with the less informed and neutral people like myself.
It might sway me a bit to say no but....
In all the threads about x bolts this is the first time I have ever heard of this.
Still to me as hunting now stands in Alberta the x bolt/primitive weapons hunters are not treated fairly,simple as that.

X bow and shotgun slug and muzzle loaders have a season. It's the general season. Bows get their own as they are muscle Powered.
I have recurves and longbows and used to have compounds. I am losing interest in it all and thought about packing it in for bowhunting. I keep hearing of the advantage of an xbow over a regular compound. I wonder if an xbow can make a 120 yd shot on an elk. I just watched it on tv. A guy with a compound bow did it. Awesome shot. The elk had time after release to do a 180 and look the other way. Made me sick to watch this awesomeness.
I guess we have idiots in all types of hunting. I voted yes. Hunter numbers are shrinking. We need more recruits.

gube · #**337** 12-19-2010, 02:22 PM

I hunt with both bow and rifle. Rather than having x-bows openly included, I would rather see a choice of what one would use for the desired species. If you want to use a bow or X-bow during the early season, then you can't use a rifle later during the general season.
As it stands now, my vote is definitely NO
Rifle hunters out number bowhunters so we know what the outcome of the vote will be. Everything will be going to the "draw" system. Quite sad really when you know what the outcome will be, just because a group of people weren't willing to learn how to shoot a bow so that they too can enjoy the early season without a "draw".

Tony_S · #**338** 12-19-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I'm not really even that passionate about the subject

Damn....30 plus posts on the subject and your not that passionate about it!? I'd hate to see it if you showed a little bit of passion!! LOL!

Just swellin' em up Dave

We all Know what we know, and believe what we believe.

Have a great Christmas!

choclab · #**339** 12-19-2010, 03:39 PM

Gube, I said this back on page 6 and agree with you 100%.
I even went a little further and said put it on draw now for archery but make the hunter choose bow season or rifle season and you can't apply for both.
Funny no one had anything to say about that.

leo · #**340** 12-19-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gube

Rifle hunters out number bowhunters so we know what the outcome of the vote will be. Everything will be going to the "draw" system. Quite sad really when you know what the outcome will be, just because a group of people weren't willing to learn how to shoot a bow so that they too can enjoy the early season without a "draw".

I think democracy should dictate the result of any vote. There is still no certainty that SRD will implement any changes any time soon. And I really don't beleive that "rifle" hunters are to enept to learn to shoot a bow. I have 3 bows but prefer to hunt with a rifle in all instances. BTW, I'm a pretty fair shot with a bow as well

Mountain Guy · #**341** 12-19-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Why don't you lend it to me the last week of September/first week of October next year and I'll let you know how it works on a moose? I only hunt out to 40 yds with mine but I could have got one this year with yours.

I can hit the target +/-1" at 50 yds but what about the penetration? Mine....feggaddaboutit.

Get your snow cleared yet?

You've been going on and on on how an xbow has no advantage over other bows?????
Very,VERY few non-xbows guys can do that !!!

Mountain Guy · #**342** 12-19-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madatter

By the same token the status quo "is" working for bow hunters.....so why change?
If there is a growing number of people who want to use an xbolt as their hunting tool I cannot understand why there cannot be some type of season for them.....
Just because it's not the "tool" you would use does not make it fair to be excluded completely.......

There is a season for them
:

drake · #**343** 12-19-2010, 04:17 PM

i dont think xbows belong in the archery season. I have limited experience with both, but did kill a coyote with a crossbow that i surely would have missed with my bow. The xbow is a very easy tool use, takes no practice and has a mechanical advantage over a compound bow.

madatter · #**344** 12-19-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

There is a season for them
:

Yeah with rifles......which they aint!

Mountain Guy · #**345** 12-19-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madatter

Yeah with rifles......which they aint!

So much harping about ''they don't get to do it ''.
They can do it all they want during the season they are allowed.
So what that it's during rifle season !! They want to hunt with a x-bow then GO DO IT !!

AxeMan · #**346** 12-19-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Seems simple. If I owned a bow I'd be voting no, but I don't, so will be voting yes. It's all self-interest, either way. I have to draw for mulies and antlerless elk in the WMU I hunt... so should the bow hunters. And I can ABSOLUTELY see why bow hunters would want no changes to anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 209x50

This sums it up perfectly for me.

Pretty hard to not accept this line of thinking for me as well. I will add antlered and antlerless moose to the mix as well.

It really does boil down to self interest in the end.

HunterDave · #**347** 12-19-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

You've been going on and on on how an xbow has no advantage over other bows?????
Very,VERY few non-xbows guys can do that !!!

No, not no advantage, but very little advantage and certainly not the advantage that allot of posters on this thread think there is?

Very, very few non-crossbow hunters can do what? Hunt out to 40 yds with their compound bow like I can with my crossbow? Or, hunt out to 60 yds like enhtr says his crossbow is accurate to? I'm sure that with practice I could be fairly accurate out to 60 yds as well but what's the point, mine doesn't have the killing power past 40 yds. We'd have to assume that his does or research it on the web.

Mountain Guy · #**348** 12-19-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxeMan

Pretty hard to not accept this line of thinking for me as well. I will add antlered and antlerless moose to the mix as well.

It really does boil down to self interest in the end.

Everybody...well everybody except weak 12 year olds and gibbles have the same opportunity that any other bow hunter has to hunt mulies, cow moose , cow elk , etc etc.
There is [B]NO[Bprejudice that I can see.... and nobody stopping anybody from doing it

HunterDave · #**349** 12-19-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony_S

Damn....30 plus posts on the subject and your not that passionate about it!? I'd hate to see it if you showed a little bit of passion!! LOL!

Have a great Christmas!

Yeah, seriously....lol! Nothing better to do and when I read about what some people's beliefs are on the effectiveness of a crossbow and how it's hunted with I feel compelled to correct their misconceptions. There aren't allot of crossbow hunters out there and if I can pass on my knowledge and experience to people then why not? That's what AO is all about isn't it?

Consider it my contribution to the AO community.

Like I stated earlier, I have no stake in what happens with the legalization of using crossbows during archery season so I have no reason to mislead anyone.

You have a great Christmas too!

pottymouth · #**350** 12-19-2010, 05:46 PM

I can't wait until the muzzleloader guys stand up and start asking for their equal treatment in here. I for one don't own a muzzleloader, but they deserve more of a season then Xbow guys do. I can honor something like looking back at all those old pics with ML's.....funny I've yet to see a late 1800's or early 1900's pic of a bunch of guys with there xbows and deer....oh well........ Where can we vote for ML season? !!

Unregistered user · #**351** 12-19-2010, 05:48 PM

A little perspective from Ohio.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09144/972185-358.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09193/983377-358.stm

HunterDave · #**352** 12-19-2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottymouth

.....funny I've yet to see a late 1800's or early 1900's pic of a bunch of guys with there xbows and deer....

Probably because cameras weren't invented when people were still hunting with crossbows.

HunterDave · #**353** 12-19-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

A little perspective from Ohio.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09144/972185-358.stm

Excellent read Unregistered User.

Mistagin · #**354** 12-19-2010, 05:53 PM

Geez Potty, you really do hate crossbows don't ya!

Unregistered user · #**355** 12-19-2010, 06:04 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/outdoors/in...nds_again.html

Points to ponder.

ishootbambi · #**356** 12-19-2010, 06:13 PM

^^^ sorry to say user.....but after more than 100 pages in various threads, the common theme here is that emotion is going to trump facts for those on the no side. the only way a lot of these guys are going to get it is after a few years of having them here when they see that all this fuss was kinda pointless.

pottymouth · #**357** 12-19-2010, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Geez Potty, you really do hate crossbows don't ya!

Actually I don't hate them at all. I believe they deserve there own seprate season as well. But they definatly aren't archery equipement .

packhuntr · #**358** 12-19-2010, 06:23 PM

Says in Unregistered User's attatchment, Ohio says xgun harvest stats are higher than archery. That is in woodlot/heavy bush scenario's if anyone is curious,,, I wonder if a study was needed to find that out hey?? LOL! I hate to think of the trouble our open country ungulates in the southern half of this province are going to be in. I may have to move over to a xgun and declare war on the remainder of our mule deer and our super slammer mules, it would be the only logical thing to do. With bows, we had hunting stories about the big sh*t that got away,,, wont be the same tune real quick,,, and its starting to look tempting...

Can we put a big rack on that guy on the island!! LOL! Better on our walls than somone else's! Its all good though,,, shes just Alberta boys, take what ya can while ya can, if ya cant beat em, join em eh!!!

pottymouth · #**359** 12-19-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

A little perspective from Ohio.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09144/972185-358.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09193/983377-358.stm

I didn'thave time to read that all yet, but I wanted to throw out this from Ohio. In all makes sense when the gun season is 8 days and archery is 134 days. Not to mention that that state has close to 400,000 hunters in it and kill alomost 40,000 deer on opening day !!!

Archery season ( including Xbows)............Sept 25th - Feb 6th
Muzzleloader season ...............................Oct 18th - Oct 23rd
Youth Gun Season ..................................Nov 20th - Nov 21st
Gun season ......................Nov 29th - Dec 5th and Dec 18th -Dec 19thMuzzleloader season................................ Jan 8th - Jan 11th

http://www.ohiodnr.com/wildlife/dow/...10huntregs.pdf

elkhunter11 · #**360** 12-19-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Very, very few non-crossbow hunters can do what? Hunt out to 40 yds with their compound bow like I can with my crossbow? Or, hunt out to 60 yds like enhtr says his crossbow is accurate to? I'm sure that with practice I could be fairly accurate out to 60 yds as well but what's the point, mine doesn't have the killing power past 40 yds. We'd have to assume that his does or research it on the web.
__________________

As was posted earlier,there is a huge variation in crossbows and their capabilities.You own an old technology 150lb recurve crossbow that is not in the same league as the new crossbows that can drive a 425gr bolt at over 400fps.That 400+fps crossbow may have as much penetration at 70 yards,as yours does at 40 yards.As such,that particular crossbow might be very effective on big game at 70 yards.