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  #31  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:29 PM
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what a joke...so 305 is put on draw...no big deal 304 is just next door, ill hunt there - pretty soon the entire province is on draw...

And a one week season on general tag? guess when every archer books thier fall holiday for? so much for the privacy in the field we enhoy now...

SRD bases numbers on a voluntary survey...they guy who ate his general mulie tag doesnt respond becaue hes grumpy about not filling a tag...the guy who filled his tag does respond because hes proud, and rightly so...and so the results are skewed...
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  #32  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:38 PM
junglejay7320 junglejay7320 is offline
 
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how many mulies did the srd kill in the last few years in the name of cwd...also how many deer actuality were positive?????the mulie #'s are down!!!!ok lets go kill hundreds of them just in case they might be sick... i just don't get it!!!
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  #33  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
WJ has part of the story right. There is an SRD proposal to put all WMUs where archery harvest exceeeds 15% on Draw. Nothing really new here. This 15% cap has been in place for a long time, it's just never really been enforced. The WMUs have not been named and it's not limited to some areas and not others...only those that exceeed 15%. While I hate to see hunting opportunity reduced, it has to be reduced somewhere and right now, in many WMus, archers are exceeding their share. Not sure it's really fair to ask rifle hunters to give up more. I would think that all hunters would support a decision based on fair distribution of tags among various user groups.

No decision has been made whether there would be a seperate draw for archers and another for rifle or just one draw for both.

How do we know that bowhunters are exceeding their share? What factual stats do we got to go on?
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  #34  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop_Tine View Post
FYI Ty ... I have shot 2 mulie bucks a 180+ and a 199 5/8 in the 7 years you have been waiting to draw the oh so special WMU tag ! I dont understand what your laughing about or happy about lost opportunity for archery guys is gonna mean lost opportunity for the only rifle guys!! Which = lost opportunity for everyone, it just isnt gonna be good for anyone and were all HUNTERS and ALBERTAINS ... You might as well spit into the wind and let it hit you in the face ( your happy now but you aint gonna be in the future)!! So stop complaining about wait times cause there only gonna get longer.... cant wait ... This is gonna be awesome !!
Im not in the least bit happy or not laughing about anything....except for the fact im happy that I didnt drop huge money this spring on a bow to hunt mule buck with in the future.I honestly was ready to give archery mule a shot,but after this news came out im hesitant to buy a bow.

To me and dad waiting the 7 years is worth it to us,to hunt in the area I grew up in....its not all about killing the most bucks u can In a certain amount of time.on that note considering I killed my nontyp mule in 2005 and you shot that 160" gross buck in 2006, and your big guy last fall,I can understand how u have shot 2 mule bucks since 2005.

Eitherway I agree that its to bad srd is takeing this out on alberta residents and not the outfitters and non residents
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  #35  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:19 PM
The Bit Runner. The Bit Runner. is offline
 
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Originally Posted by NBFK View Post
I would be fine with a 1 week season rather than getting rid of the general season. Not all zones will be closed but its like anything the pressure will shift and then those zones too will be lost as well. Just look at the general moose situation in 505 and 510 I guarantee its only a matter of time until they go to draw soon since 338 and 337 did.

I think the thing that gets me really mad this is the absolute doe slaughter that has gone on in the last few years. Everyone puts the blinders on and says archers are the reason. In the past few years I could have gone in the rifle season with 4 buddies and brought 12 does home. How is this game management? There were way better steps in conserving mule deer rather than this. As a bowhunter I have to suck it up and do what's best for the future herd and not let my selfish thoughts interrupt.........But really srd hasn't been doing what's best for the province since the first devastating winter of 2006. It's a poor choice and I can't wait to draw a mulie tag every 8 years because of srd's lack of effort to actually have accurate game counts and harvest surveys.

You bet, could not of said it any better. It was only a matter of time, The people that decide these rules honestly dont have a clue
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  #36  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:19 PM
Kris54Timo Kris54Timo is offline
 
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so it would disintegrate


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  #37  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pottymouth View Post
How do we know that bowhunters are exceeding their share? What factual stats do we got to go on?
Harvest stats collected over the years. I know you don't want to believe them but........It's sad to see any opportunity lost but archers are allocated a certain percentage based on participation....in some WMUs they are exceeeding that harvest. We seem to live in a province where all groups need to give...it's just the archers' turn. I see no positive in this but the stats are the stats and it's what we have to work with and they say the harvesty is above 15% in some WMUs. it's the archers' turn to give...lord knows the rifle hunters sure have in the past decade.

It's sad to see this turning into archers against rifle hunmters yet once again....I'd say there is a bigger problem that all huners should unite against but sadly I doubt that will happen and too many groups seem too concerned about their piece of the pie rathjer than the big picture. The hypocracy is certainly not lost on me here...sadly it is on many.

There is no winner here...only losers.

I think your time would be much better spent examining what got us here and encouraging ESRD to do something about it than trying to poke holes in their harvest stats. I suspect they are some of the most accurate info we are being force fed. But carry on!

Last edited by sheephunter; 06-20-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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  #38  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
Harvest stats collected over the years. I know you don't want to believe them but........It's sad to see any opportunity lost but archers are allocated a certain percentage based on participation....in some WMUs they are exceeeding that harvest. We seem to live in a province where all groups need to give...it's just the archers' turn. I see no positive in this but the stats are the stats and it's what we have to work with and they say the harvesty is above 15% in some WMUs. it's the archers' turn to give...lord knows the rifle hunters sure have in the past decade.

It's sad to see this turning into archers against rifle hunmters yet once again....I'd say there is a bigger problem that all huners should unite against but sadly I doubt that will happen and too many groups seem too concerned about their piece of the pie rathjer than the big picture. The hypocracy is certainly not lost on me here...sadly it is on many.

There is no winner here...only losers.
I agree with you here TJ .. there are no winners only losers .. However , Potty has a valid question , that being , without a registration of kills how can SRD come up with an accurate count ? I phoned hunters for 10 years doing the survey and never, ever had close to 15% success rate on mule deer for bow hunters in all those our club phined . Sorry , SRD is out to lunch ... again .
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  #39  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:34 PM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
There is no winner here...only losers.

!
thats the truth. i think the best way to mitigate the loss would be to have a separate draw for archery and rifle. pick one or the other and you would give up the least. given success rates for archers, there would be a heck of a lot less wait times than for rifle, and by having some bowhunters choosing to go that route to hunt more often, rifle guys may have to wait less as well. with that option, i dont see a whole bunch of reduced opportunity. some, but not a ton.
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  #40  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ishootbambi View Post
thats the truth. i think the best way to mitigate the loss would be to have a separate draw for archery and rifle. pick one or the other and you would give up the least. given success rates for archers, there would be a heck of a lot less wait times than for rifle, and by having some bowhunters choosing to go that route to hunt more often, rifle guys may have to wait less as well. with that option, i dont see a whole bunch of reduced opportunity. some, but not a ton.
That is one of the options on the table.
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  #41  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by H380 View Post
I agree with you here TJ .. there are no winners only losers .. However , Potty has a valid question , that being , without a registration of kills how can SRD come up with an accurate count ? I phoned hunters for 10 years doing the survey and never, ever had close to 15% success rate on mule deer for bow hunters in all those our club phined . Sorry , SRD is out to lunch ... again .
No one said archers had a 15% success rate...they said they are taking more than 15% of the allowable harvest. In a zone with 50 mule deer draw tags, that would only be 8 bucks killed by archers. I have no trouble believing the number is over 15% in many WMUs. We aren't talking many bucks in some Wmus.
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  #42  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pottymouth View Post
How do we know that bowhunters are exceeding their share? What factual stats do we got to go on?
all the stats are done by computer , and based on the computers knowledge there is 3 zones in alberta that are 100% bowhunter harvest ..lol..

Bowhunters are scape goats for un-sustainable resourses to blame , they need to look in the mirror and be resposible for the on slaught of deer in the eastern zones over the past 5 years ..
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  #43  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:42 PM
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Can someone confirm that yes they plan on possibly reducing the resident tag numbers, but the outfitter tags and nonresident tags will remain the same?


If so, that's another slap in the face to Albertans by SRD.
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  #44  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by blackmamba View Post
all the stats are done by computer , and based on the computers knowledge there is 3 zones in alberta that are 100% bowhunter harvest ..lol..

Bowhunters are scape goats for un-sustainable resourses to blame , they need to look in the mirror and be resposible for the on slaught of deer in the eastern zones over the past 5 years ..
I'd be surprised if the CWD zones were included. I suspect the archer harvest is no where near 15% in those zones the past few years. But I suspect it is much higher in some others. Is it possible that one buck was killed by an archer in WMU106 last year? That would exceeed the 15%. To say it's not happening in some WMUs is foolish.

Last edited by sheephunter; 06-21-2012 at 12:04 AM.
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  #45  
Old 06-21-2012, 01:29 AM
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Half those stats aren't completed by everyone ! A good chunk of the stats completed do not accurately depict the time invested in each hunt! And I don't recall if they actually ask you what weapon you used to harvest your kill!

Now should we assume, that they look at the date of arrest, and draw a conclusion on the weapon used, by the select few that complete their questionnaire ! Do we have a number of questionnaires submitted to Srd from last year? Out of 100,000 ++ hunters, how many?

Does this mean that from now on , we should save our wmu's we hunt in and fudge the numbers?

If Srd could provide irrefutable information, other than whats been put forward here, I would gladly change my mind, and jump on board to save our mule deer!

This is only looking like bowhunters vs riflemen, because so far only one group
is losing something, while the other sits pretty! As united hunters , either we fall or gain, it should be together!
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  #46  
Old 06-21-2012, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie View Post
Im not in the least bit happy or not laughing about anything....except for the fact im happy that I didnt drop huge money this spring on a bow to hunt mule buck with in the future.I honestly was ready to give archery mule a shot,but after this news came out im hesitant to buy a bow.

To me and dad waiting the 7 years is worth it to us,to hunt in the area I grew up in....its not all about killing the most bucks u can In a certain amount of time.on that note considering I killed my nontyp mule in 2005 and you shot that 160" gross buck in 2006, and your big guy last fall,I can understand how u have shot 2 mule bucks since 2005.

Eitherway I agree that its to bad srd is takeing this out on alberta residents and not the outfitters and non residents
Never said nothing about who can kill the most amount of bucks in a time line!! I guess that one went over your head !!! Think about land owner tags , outfitter tags = longer wait times , which is what you whine about , bring on year 10 before you pull that tag , cause guess what their only giving out 5 tags again this year!! I love it, its great,awesome .... Your original post stated you were some what happy about this so called srd proposal!! That what i got out of it ,like i said before i will believe it when i see it !! I doubt it will happen in 2013 !!
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  #47  
Old 06-21-2012, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by pottymouth View Post
Does this mean that from now on , we should save our wmu's we hunt in and fudge the numbers?
Potty I hope you were just tired and frustrated when you posted that because anyone willing to fudge numbers to protect their WMU at the expense of wildlife and other hunters really isn't much of a hunter in my books. Actually, I find the notion pretty distasteful.
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  #48  
Old 06-21-2012, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
No one said archers had a 15% success rate...they said they are taking more than 15% of the allowable harvest. In a zone with 50 mule deer draw tags, that would only be 8 bucks killed by archers. I have no trouble believing the number is over 15% in many WMUs. We aren't talking many bucks in some Wmus.
Sorry Sheep , I stated that wrong .. I meant that bowhunter success rates weren't 15% of the total harvest , not a 15 % success rate for bowhunters .Sure , there are some guys that get one every year , but alot more that don't .Without a better registration method of kills there is no way to truly know what those rates are .The current hunter survey is a joke .I 'll talk with measurers of SABA and see how many muley bucks were killed by members last year and try to get an idea of local success rates .
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  #49  
Old 06-21-2012, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by H380 View Post
Sorry Sheep , I stated that wrong .. I meant that bowhunter success rates weren't 15% of the total harvest , not a 15 % success rate for bowhunters .Sure , there are some guys that get one every year , but alot more that don't .Without a better registration method of kills there is no way to truly know what those rates are .The current hunter survey is a joke .I 'll talk with measurers of SABA and see how many muley bucks were killed by members last year and try to get an idea of local success rates .
In many WMUs 15% could be only a handful of bucks or in the case of a WMU like 106 it's one buck. You can't believe that the 15% cap isn't being exceeeded in some WMUs because it is.
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  #50  
Old 06-21-2012, 07:07 AM
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In many WMUs 15% could be only a handful of bucks or in the case of a WMU like 106 it's one buck. You can't believe that the 15% cap isn't being exceeeded in some WMUs because it is.
Are you talking about resident archery harvest or outfitter allocation or non resident allocation or landowner tags...

Archery is the last place they should look to reduce the harvest. Try starting with non residents first.
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  #51  
Old 06-21-2012, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
Are you talking about resident archery harvest or outfitter allocation or non resident allocation or landowner tags...

Archery is the last place they should look to reduce the harvest. Try starting with non residents first.
Just resident archery harvest on general tags.

You may very well have a point. I was just commenting on the ESRD proposal that's out there for 2013 and how the 15% cap plays into it.
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  #52  
Old 06-21-2012, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
Potty I hope you were just tired and frustrated when you posted that because anyone willing to fudge numbers to protect their WMU at the expense of wildlife and other hunters really isn't much of a hunter in my books. Actually, I find the notion pretty distasteful.
So do I SH, But...

When people don't take the survey seriously , how accurate are those numbers! There are people that just write down anything, unless it's a draw specific harvest, or like most I know just don't bother, for numerous reasons!

If sheep hunters who register their rams aren't 100% honest on their location, what makes a voluntary survey more binding?

Last year, I had to do 6 of those surveys, for family and friends that don't have a computer, or computer skills! This year is going to be a lot more, judging by the amount of draws I filled in already! ( haven't even done my
own yet) what is the % of hunters that completed the survey?

But again, just like the sheep problem, Srd is just looking for facts from wherever, or whomever will support the position they have already chosen to follow!

Unfortunately, because this problem falls into a bowhunters vs rifle hunters situation. Pegging hunters against each other, there will be no huge rally to save the archery season, like we did the sheep!
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  #53  
Old 06-21-2012, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by pottymouth View Post
Srd is full bullsheet!

How could they even begin to come up with a number, when they don't have a mandatory Harvest report, to actually qualify their statements!

There's no way archers are exceeding the 15% !!

This nothing More than the right people whining because the big bad bowhunters killed a buck in sept, before they could in nov!

More hunting opportunity lost! Sad!
I agree Potty.....the surveys are VOLUNTARY and conducted via e-mail now....used to have people calling your house to ask the information. If the base for the 15% harvest by archers is the survey then its laughable....the results could hardly be considered "accurate"

....nothing stopping anyone from adding or detracting from the survey data....to create an "accurate" way of collecting numbers would prove too costly and would use up too many of our stressed resources as it is.....

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  #54  
Old 06-21-2012, 08:50 AM
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I call BS on the concept of a "conservation" concern.

While Policy may be the hammer, the nail is yet another in the hunting coffin.


UNLIMITED Landowner tags, Outfitter allocations exceeding Resident draw licences, and now we are about to lose a valuable general season over a handfull of deer?



There is a proven concept in Wildlife management called Compensatory Mortality. THOUSANDS of Mule Deer are wiped out by vehicles every year in Alberta! Hunters should be allowed MORE licences to take deer before they are wasted on the highway.



There are people within the government that want ALL hunting to be on a Draw. It is an incremental fight to eventually eliminate hunting. They have won yet another round.


I wonder which bodies on AGMAG will oppose this recommendation?

Will APOS oppose it?

Will AFGA oppose it?

Will Safari Club International oppose it?


If you support any of these groups, call and ask for their position on this matter. Let them know your support is dependant on how they will vote.

Last edited by walking buffalo; 06-21-2012 at 09:19 AM.
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  #55  
Old 06-21-2012, 10:45 AM
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I'm confused by something that has come up in this thread. I was of the understanding that guides only guided people who had obtained a tag through the regular channels (ie: general or draw process). There are a couple posts here that seem to suggest that guides can buy licences/tags and then give/sell them to their paying clients (who do not go through the draw process). Is this true?
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  #56  
Old 06-21-2012, 11:31 AM
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Maybe the 15% cap is the issue. How did they arrive at that number? As archery increases in popularity, so should the 15% cap. As an example, if 80% of hunters were archers, and 20% were rifle, would it not seem appropriate to have 80% of the resource go to archers? Maybe that 15% number is due an increase? Another reason archery success is higher is that it is much easier to get permission than it is for rifle hunters, and the harvest gets dispersed onto parcels of land that would otherwise not get hunted by rifle hunters.
I am also now very aware of how responding to the harvest surveys have now "shot me in the foot", while others, many being rifle hunters I suspect, avoided them like the plague! That won't happen again. Mandatory registration or nothing else for me! And I am both an archery and rifle hunter.
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  #57  
Old 06-21-2012, 02:09 PM
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that's part of the proposal, there needs to be mandatory harvest reporting. And even then, as an archer are you going to be honest if it means you get put on draw?
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  #58  
Old 06-21-2012, 02:29 PM
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have a question? If you shoot a deer (whitetail or mule) during archery season, can you hunt and shoot another deer of the same speices during rifle season?
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  #59  
Old 06-21-2012, 02:32 PM
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have a question? If you shoot a deer (whitetail or mule) during archery season, can you hunt and shoot another deer of the same speices during rifle season?
Not on the same tag, 1 use only.

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  #60  
Old 06-21-2012, 02:57 PM
Mark Mark is offline
 
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Do you get a seperate taq for archery and rifile... Please excuse my ignorance but I really can't see an explanation in the regulation. Also if goes on draw, would you be able to apply for an archery mule tag and also apply for a rifile mule tag and get drawn for both?
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