Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Hunting Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 06-23-2013, 09:44 PM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ishootbambi View Post
well yes....that's why some are in favor of scrapping it. there would indeed be an uproar for the first two years....but like any other change, it will become normal soon enough.
I don't think scrapping it is the answer....

For instance, with no 999 then people are going to for sure pull a tag when they hit the upper pool with tags available.....how many guys are going to lose priority, and allow the tag to be used for someone else that they do not choose? sorry to say but there is a lot of "me or no one" mentality out there.

With a 999 the person in the draw has a bit of say when they are able to draw and make full use of the tag....every year they do not pull the tag and they meet or exceed the draw threshold, someone else has an opportunity to hunt.

LC
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06-23-2013, 10:04 PM
normanrd's Avatar
normanrd normanrd is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: whitecourt
Posts: 1,293
Default

I emphatically support both the definition of residents, and separate draw for nr applicants, and I too think that 10% might be too high of a number.

I still am having trouble understanding the desire to do away with the 999 system though. If I 999 for 30 years, and never take a tag, how is that in any way, shape or form reducing or influencing the availability of tags for anyone who wants to draw that tag during that time? Except of course on the 31st year when I decide to draw!

Everything else I can be on board with.

Norm
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 06-23-2013, 10:16 PM
missingtwo missingtwo is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: south of Edm
Posts: 517
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ishootbambi View Post
i keep hearing that and keep hating it. someone living in the east that has never seen a mule deer cant ever hunt one? how about sheep, or moose? im ok with sharing, but the numbers need to be kept reasonable. whats reasonable is debatable, but im against shutting others out.


OK, don't shut them out totally. Allow them to participate in the non-trophy draw.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 06-23-2013, 10:57 PM
BigJon BigJon is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Peace River
Posts: 1,264
Default

I could live with dropping the 999 system.

I like the idea of having to reside in the province for 1 year before you are considered a resident.

I think it should be mandatory that a license for a species you want to apply for should be purchased before submitting an application. Once drawn than you are authorized to buy the tag and your license is validated. I know that is not an overly popular idea but I'd like to see it happen. I don't make tons of money but I can set priorities and ensure that I have a couple hundred bucks to spare come application time.

I dont like the 3 succesful draws a year idea. Typically I don't kill that many animals a year but I do know guys that miss a year or two due to work and family committments and then plan to have a stellar year. I don't see how killing 4 seperate species in a year that you had successfully drawn a tag for can be a conservation concern.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 06-23-2013, 11:57 PM
Moosetalker's Avatar
Moosetalker Moosetalker is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 781
Default

Draw pool for rez and NR is OK don't need to split it.

Funding for SRD and the habitat enhancement programs need increasing why not institute a trophy fee for successful NR and NR alien hunters. Maybe a lower cost version for successful residents also might be an option.

999 works fine the way it is.
I know of several old timers who were sitting on P7 or above who passed on before they had a chance to cash in their priority.

One individual was waiting for his grandson to finish University to accompany him on a moose hunt,
I offered to take him out when he got sick the first time, but he was adamant that he wait till his grandson finished school. Regrettably he passed before he got the chance.

If they ever find a way to get a 100% notification to successful applicants Then once you get your draw there should be a 15-30 day time period to buy your Tag then UN-purchased tags should be re-drawn.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 06-23-2013, 11:59 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
Default

They implemented the 999 for a reason.
Before 999, we just put in for a zone that we knew we couldn't get drawn in. Or added someone to the draw that had a low priority.

We have the best system in North America. But it could be improved.
More impossible to draw tags moved to a lottery system
Alberta folk should be able to buy outfitter tags at a cost to their P points.
Anything with more than a 10-15 year wait should have a bit of a lottery attached to it. Say one entry for each year?

People will talk of being able to turn back tags, but FW count on X amount of people wasting tags, so they make more available.

Great system, needs some tweaking.
Jamie
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 06-24-2013, 12:00 AM
Cowtown guy's Avatar
Cowtown guy Cowtown guy is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,658
Default

I didn't read the whole thing so I apologize if this has been said already...
If there is a realistic way for us to do the draws sooner that would be great. It is pretty hard to make plans for some folks when the draw results are only made available in mid-July. Holidays with some companies must be applied for well in advance.
If there is a good reason then fine. But if it's doable, then why not do it earlier?
__________________
"The Internet doesnt make you stupid, it just makes your stupidity more accessible to others." Huntinstuff 2011
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 06-24-2013, 12:12 AM
Desert Eagle Desert Eagle is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: GP
Posts: 947
Default draws

I don't like the idea of loosing the 999 option. What about young families that put in for tags away from home? If there is any additions to their family or work obligations, I don't think its fair that they could potentially burn up a tag or loose their priority. I think that the possibility of 999ing a certain draw code for say only 2 years in a row then you have to enter a zone. I don't agree with increasing any costs, it is already tough for people with low incomes. Hunting costs enough already. I also disagree with the 1 year residency, I think that it should be comparable to other government services. I do like the idea of having the win info verified, I do think that there have been people in the past that have "cheated" and didn't do the hunter course. Personally I don't like the idea of another picture I'd, but that's just my dislike for "big brother"
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 06-24-2013, 06:46 AM
Roughneck Country's Avatar
Roughneck Country Roughneck Country is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post





It is Not a good idea!

This idea is Guaranteed to take away licences from residents.


Seems we need an example.

Allocation is 100 licences. NR capped to 10 licences.

In a separate NR Draw
- NR are guaranteed 10 licences
- Residents are limited to 90 licences

In a combined draw
- NR may draw from 0 to 10 licences
- residents may draw from 90 to 100 licences.


A separate NR draw is guaranteeing the loss of up to 10% of the tags for residents.


In my best Sheephunter typing....

Ugh.

Doesn't have to be 10%, just a set amount so it is known. My understanding is right now there could be way more than 10% of the tags going to non residents if enough of them applied and were successful, this is more of a cap on nonres opportunity. Since we have outfitter allocations (and most of the states that use the 10% allotment for non residents don't) we could adjust the percentage or cap the number of tags for non residents to be lower. Maybe 5% is the right number I don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 06-24-2013, 07:08 AM
sheepguide sheepguide is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rimbey
Posts: 5,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by normanrd View Post
I still am having trouble understanding the desire to do away with the 999 system though. If I 999 for 30 years, and never take a tag, how is that in any way, shape or form reducing or influencing the availability of tags for anyone who wants to draw that tag during that time? Except of course on the 31st year when I decide to draw.

Norm
If everyone 999s their choices you can end up with a lot of tag holders having high priorities then all decide they want tags in can make the wait even longer. A 5yr priority draw can have guys with a 10yr priority sitting waiting. If a bunch of these guys decide to put in it can jump the year wait to say 8 years. Without the 999 these guys are no longer in the pool.
You get enough guys with banked priority it is just like the sheep draws. If you didn't start from day one on some draws you could possible never get a tag if thee 999 guys decide to all cash in.

Without the 999 people have to prioritize their draw choices.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 06-24-2013, 07:15 AM
roger's Avatar
roger roger is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: wmu 222, member #197
Posts: 4,907
Default

as i say every year...
1. if im going to 999 a draw..why cant it be done on Jan 1st of that current year what diff does it make til the draws are open or not.
2. I would like to be able to purchase a 6 pack of draws for (antlered Mule deer) and change my zone or 999 for the next 6 years.
__________________
there are two kinds of people...those with loaded guns and those who dig.
the good, the bad, the ugly

weatherby fans clik here....
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/group.php?groupid=31
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 06-24-2013, 07:19 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
If everyone 999s their choices you can end up with a lot of tag holders having high priorities then all decide they want tags in can make the wait even longer. A 5yr priority draw can have guys with a 10yr priority sitting waiting. If a bunch of these guys decide to put in it can jump the year wait to say 8 years. Without the 999 these guys are no longer in the pool.
You get enough guys with banked priority it is just like the sheep draws. If you didn't start from day one on some draws you could possible never get a tag if thee 999 guys decide to all cash in.

Without the 999 people have to prioritize their draw choices.
But the years the guy with the high priority decides to 999.....someone with a LESSER priority than P10 (for example) gets drawn....so I don't think it affect things quite the way you think.....these high priority guy have possibly waived 1-2 maybe even 3 draws in the time it took them to build a P10....for example if a guy hunts a moose zone that takes P3, but for what ever reason he holds out and 999 for 10 years....he has missed on on 2 years of tags. So if he pulls his tag with a P19 then he is back to square one.

For sheep you have guys competing for only 5 tags.....not 100 or maybe 500 tags....also there is I ly a small number of zones to hunt sheep when compared to moose or deer so the numbers get concentrated in 8-10 zones.

I don't think the 999 system makes guys wait any longer than they normally would....nit like the high priority guys all know each other and all plan on drawing in the same year.

Remember once they pull a tag they get priority erased.

I like to plan and prioritize my draws too and 999 allows me another tool to do that....this being said last year I had a moose draw it took me 4 years to pull and an elk draw that took 9 years....both of them were 5 hours apart and both 2.5hrs from my home. I just made it a priority to hunt both those tags last year.

LC
__________________

Last edited by Lefty-Canuck; 06-24-2013 at 07:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06-24-2013, 07:28 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
Default

Tag availability and the numbers of applicants increase wait times....not the 999 option IMHO.

The only way to decrease wait times is to increase tags or decrease the number of applicants.

Do you think any of the P14-15 sheep guys are even using the 999 system?? Most of them want to draw one if the coveted 5 tags....

This is why redefining what an Alberta Resident is and how they qualify is such a big deal....do not kid yourself, how many people do we have who literally just show up in Alberta and enter the draw system....all they need is a permanent address located in Alberta.

How many threads do we have started...."just moved to Alberta need help with draws"

Who checks to make sure they actually live here?

If you go to the Yukon you have to live there a full 2 years before you are considered a resident!

LC
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06-24-2013, 07:50 AM
sheepguide sheepguide is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rimbey
Posts: 5,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
But the years the guy with the high priority decides to 999.....someone with a LESSER priority than P10 (for example) gets drawn....so I don't think it affect things quite the way you think.....these high priority guy have possibly waived 1-2 maybe even 3 draws in the time it took them to build a P10....for example if a guy hunts a moose zone that takes P3, but for what ever reason he holds out and 999 for 10 years....he has missed on on 2 years of tags. So if he pulls his tag with a P19 then he is back to square one.

For sheep you have guys competing for only 5 tags.....not 100 or maybe 500 tags....also there is I ly a small number of zones to hunt sheep when compared to moose or deer so the numbers get concentrated in 8-10 zones.

I don't think the 999 system makes guys wait any longer than they normally would....nit like the high priority guys all know each other and all plan on drawing in the same year.

Remember once they pull a tag they get priority erased.

I like to plan and prioritize my draws too and 999 allows me another tool to do that....this being said last year I had a moose draw it took me 4 years to pull and an elk draw that took 9 years....both of them were 5 hours apart and both 2.5hrs from my home. I just made it a priority to hunt both those tags last year.

Tag availability and the numbers if applicants increase wait times....not the 999 option IMHO.

LC
Here is a good example. Province wide under antlered elk draw code 18 there are 690 tags and 17550 applicants. 10399 of these are in the 999 pool. That's 15 years worth of tags just sitting in the 999 pool. That doesn't include the 6461 applicants that actually applied but didn't get drawn.
Do you see what happens when these 999 guys decide to draw? They can actualy control the draw. You may be due for a tag but if a few high priority guys decide to draw your SOL and your plans just went out the window!
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06-24-2013, 07:56 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
Here is a good example. Province wide under antlered elk draw code 18 there are 690 tags and 17550 applicants. 10399 of these are in the 999 pool. That's 15 years worth of tags just sitting in the 999 pool. That doesn't include the 6461 applicants that actually applied but didn't get drawn.
Do you see what happens when these 999 guys decide to draw? They can actualy control the draw. You may be due for a tag but if a few high priority guys decide to draw your SOL and your plans just went out the window!
Only if they all conspired with each other could they control it....how many lower priority or correct priority guys got the draw early when these other guys 999 theirs?

You have to understand the concept of a draw....there are NO GUARANTEES....that's why they call it a draw.

For mule deer last year in the zone I was in....I was part if the 20% P3 that never got drawn....that's how she goes.

I said it before and I'll say it again....there have been several "reboot" situations that puts all bets off on getting any guarantees....all having to do with decreased opportunity due to harsh winters, CWD culls, ticks, etc....

In short it is pretty tough to make plans on the draws until you get the notification back of "success"....

LC
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 06-24-2013, 07:58 AM
Pincherguy's Avatar
Pincherguy Pincherguy is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Turner Valley
Posts: 2,922
Default

I haven't read everything here but sounds like some are in favor of dropping the 999 feature of the draw. One of the main reasons for this feature is for those that may not be able to hunt that year. This is the way I am this year, due to medical issues I will be lucky to get out this year at all, so I 999 all my draws hoping for better luck nest year.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:01 AM
sheepguide sheepguide is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rimbey
Posts: 5,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post

Do you think any of the P14-15 sheep guys are even using the 999 system?? Most of them want to draw one if the coveted 5 tags....

LC
In draw code 444 sheep it's priority 8 for top pool. There are 6 tags and 92 priority 8 applicants as well as 42 priority 8 guys that 999. There was 2588 total applicants of which 1418 are under the 999 system.

In draw code 890 & 891(WMU 437) there are 8 tags. Priority 16 to get drawn. 62 top priorities applied with a 16 and 33 priority 16 used the 999 system. There were 3166 total applicants of these 1876 are in the 999 pool.

So to answer your question a lot of high priority guys use the 999 system.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:02 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
Here is a good example. Province wide under antlered elk draw code 18 there are 690 tags and 17550 applicants. 10399 of these are in the 999 pool. That's 15 years worth of tags just sitting in the 999 pool. That doesn't include the 6461 applicants that actually applied but didn't get drawn.
Do you see what happens when these 999 guys decide to draw? They can actualy control the draw. You may be due for a tag but if a few high priority guys decide to draw your SOL and your plans just went out the window!
The problem is there are so many people in the draw system....as soon as you have a priority system and allow people to by choice build priority over taking a draw, every year those high priority guys do not draw the tag goes to ANOTHER HUNTER....numbers of tags vs numbers if applicants drives how long it takes to draw.

We can't just all of the sudden add tags...most populations do not allow for that.

But we can change the rules or realign them to what makes sense on who is eligible to enter the draws....that is the only thing I see that will reduce wait times.

Going after the 999 aspect is a scapegoat to larger issues.....

LC
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:07 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
In draw code 444 sheep it's priority 8 for top pool. There are 6 tags and 92 priority 8 applicants as well as 42 priority 8 guys that 999. There was 2588 total applicants of which 1418 are under the 999 system.

In draw code 890 & 891(WMU 437) there are 8 tags. Priority 16 to get drawn. 62 top priorities applied with a 16 and 33 priority 16 used the 999 system. There were 3166 total applicants of these 1876 are in the 999 pool.

So to answer your question a lot of high priority guys use the 999 system.
Yah but the guys who 999 are out of contention for a tag....the lower priority guys are still going to wait if 999 goes away due to the numbers of applicants ahead of them.

If a guy 999 for 30 years, how many lower priorities in that time frame get his "shoe in" tags.....1 for every year he exceeds the threshold and enters 999, so he is effectively handing over "his" tag to someone else for that year.

Please acknowledge you understand this point I have been trying to make

It's not like a high priority guy keeps the tag out of the draw pool if he 999's it. It allows someone else to pull it.

LC
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:11 AM
sheepguide sheepguide is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rimbey
Posts: 5,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
The problem is there are so many people in the draw system....as soon as you have a priority system and allow people to by choice build priority over taking a draw, every year those high priority guys do not draw the tag goes to ANOTHER HUNTER....numbers if tags vs numbers if applicants drives how long it takes to draw.

We can't just all of the sudden add tags...most populations do not allow for that.

But we can change the rules or realign th to what makes sense on who is eligible to enter the draws....that is the only thing I see that will reduce wait times.

Going after the 999 aspect is a scapegoat to larger issues.....

LC
No need for more tags. Stop guys from banking points! Raise application fees. You will eliminate a lot of guys that just put in incase one day they may decide to hunt that animal. Or they just put in because they can. Could care less about hunting that animal but heck it's only $3 so I'm putting in for everything.
I'm not saying we need more tags so more guys get drawn but if we eliminate they fly by night guys in the draw then the guys that will utilize these tags will get them quicker and more often.

You can plan on a hunt in a certain zone feel you have the right number of points by statistics then a few guys sitting in the 999 pool decide to draw and your plans are shot as it just bumped you.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:20 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
No need for more tags. Stop guys from banking points! Raise application fees. You will eliminate a lot of guys that just put in incase one day they may decide to hunt that animal. Or they just put in because they can. Could care less about hunting that animal but heck it's only $3 so I'm putting in for everything.
I'm not saying we need more tags so more guys get drawn but if we eliminate they fly by night guys in the draw then the guys that will utilize these tags will get them quicker and more often.

You can plan on a hunt in a certain zone feel you have the right number of points by statistics then a few guys sitting in the 999 pool decide to draw and your plans are shot as it just bumped you.
1. Even if 999 goes away these guys will just put in and when they pula tag if they can't hunt it they won't care

2. Yes increase or take tag cost upfront prior to the draw, like they do in many US States

3. Yes fly by night nonresidents should not be eligible unless they meet resident requirements.....currently there really isn't any.

4. Because this is a draw and tag numbers fluctuate year after year due to many factors....you cannot bank on getting a draw....that's why it is called a draw

LC
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:20 AM
sheepguide sheepguide is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rimbey
Posts: 5,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Yah but the guys who 999 are out of contention for a tag....the lower priority guys are still going to wait if 999 goes away due to the numbers of applicants ahead of them.

If a guy 999 for 30 years, how many lower priorities in that time frame get his "shoe in" tags.....1 for every year he exceeds the threshold and enters 999, so he is effectively handing over "his" tag to someone else for that year.

Please acknowledge you understand this point I have been trying to make

It's not like a high priority guy keeps the tag out of the draw pool if he 999's it. It allows someone else to pull it.

LC
You don't understand what I'm saying. Of coarse the same number get draw every year. But with 999 guys they can bump the years to be draw pretty easy. Take for instance a dozen absolute monster elk come out of Suffield next year including a new world record. Now all them high priority 999 guys( many of whome just wanr an easy big elk) are going to enter that draw and the year wait will double bumping that guy that has actuall put in every year to hunt there.

Second increase draw entry costs and that will eliminate even more guys because they will dedicate their monies to only animals they really wish to hunt.


It's nothing to do with more tags it's the need for less applicants and lowering the number of high priority guys that don't really care to hunt that animal but do just because they can.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:33 AM
sheepguide sheepguide is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rimbey
Posts: 5,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pincherguy View Post
I haven't read everything here but sounds like some are in favor of dropping the 999 feature of the draw. One of the main reasons for this feature is for those that may not be able to hunt that year. This is the way I am this year, due to medical issues I will be lucky to get out this year at all, so I 999 all my draws hoping for better luck nest year.
It sucks if guys can't hunt do to health but all not being able to 999 does for one year is make your wait one year longer but may eliminate some 999 guys that would have put in as well so you may actuall get draw in the same time frame.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:35 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
You don't understand what I'm saying. Of coarse the same number get draw every year. But with 999 guys they can bump the years to be draw pretty easy. Take for instance a dozen absolute monster elk come out of Suffield next year including a new world record. Now all them high priority 999 guys( many of whome just wanr an easy big elk) are going to enter that draw and the year wait will double bumping that guy that has actuall put in every year to hunt there.

Second increase draw entry costs and that will eliminate even more guys because they will dedicate their monies to only animals they really wish to hunt.


It's nothing to do with more tags it's the need for less applicants and lowering the number of high priority guys that don't really care to hunt that animal but do just because they can.
The possible answer for your issue described is....you need to pick a single WMU area and be eligible to only pull a tag there....so you can build priority but you are dedicated to an area, that way the scenario you described is minimized.

Or everyone just decides to put in for the 1-2 "trophy" zones....then you are back to a 437 sheep issue where you are stuck there and there are people ahead of you.

In any priority based system there will always be people in the front if the line....and ones in the back.

LC
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:40 AM
Roughneck Country's Avatar
Roughneck Country Roughneck Country is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
In draw code 444 sheep it's priority 8 for top pool. There are 6 tags and 92 priority 8 applicants as well as 42 priority 8 guys that 999. There was 2588 total applicants of which 1418 are under the 999 system.

In draw code 890 & 891(WMU 437) there are 8 tags. Priority 16 to get drawn. 62 top priorities applied with a 16 and 33 priority 16 used the 999 system. There were 3166 total applicants of these 1876 are in the 999 pool.

So to answer your question a lot of high priority guys use the 999 system.
I hear what your saying, however I have just been going over the draw stats for 444/446 for the past couple seasons and it looks like the people with priority above me are dropping out exponentially (adding 999 and people who put in for priority only) Not that I have a chance of seeing that tag anytime soon but I don't believe the 999 is really making a differnece. The number of people who put in for it is pretty consistent and there doesnt seem to be any year in particular where a significant number of the 999 pool jumped into the draw.

How about this for a 999 option. Let people 999 a draw but only do it up to a max of 2 or 3 times during the time they are building points in that specific draw. If they are drawn the 999 option is reset so they can 999 another 2 or 3 times. That way 999 isn't abused and people who genuinly need to sit out due to health or family commitments can do so with out burning a tag they cant hunt anyway.

Not the total solution but would deff knock out a lot of fring people in the draw especially those with high preference who don't actually want to do the hunt.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:46 AM
sheepguide sheepguide is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rimbey
Posts: 5,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pincherguy View Post
I haven't read everything here but sounds like some are in favor of dropping the 999 feature of the draw. One of the main reasons for this feature is for those that may not be able to hunt that year. This is the way I am this year, due to medical issues I will be lucky to get out this year at all, so I 999 all my draws hoping for better luck nest year.
I think in the case of sheep tags a lot of guys are just giving up and dropping out as they feel they are wasting their time. Guys don't mind high odds but aren't real partial to impossible ones.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:59 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
Default

The problem I see is the appearance of "elitist attitude" in general.

To say that certain people shouldn't put in for certain draws because they are not dedicated or they shouldn't be allowed to 999 because they may or may not hunt that species ever turns hunting and draws into a tiered system.

Dedicated vs undedicated.

I have friend who are more "dedicated" to hunting than I am and some who are less "dedicated".

We need to be less judgemental....

The draw system requirements are so slack that almost anyone can enter them whether they really want to pull a tag or not.

Like ISB alluded to people will go so far to cheat the systems to gain an advantage by putting in all non hunting family members and even pets???!!

How do we stop the abuse of the system?

My Mother had cancer and my Father was her sole caregiver. Dad had to 999 his draws a couple years as he was unable to go...I think 999 allows people to plan but keep in mind....

THIS IS A DRAW SYSTEM, there are no guarantees!! You can guarantee you will not be drawn but you cannot guarantee you will.

LC
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 06-24-2013, 09:31 AM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
The problem I see is the appearance of "elitist attitude" in general.


The draw system requirements are so slack that almost anyone can enter them whether they really want to pull a tag or not.


the attitude is not elitist LC....and you are correct that the requirements are far too slack. the draw system for hunters wanting to hunt should be geared for that.....those who want to and can legally hunt.


Like ISB alluded to people will go so far to cheat the systems to gain an advantage by putting in all non hunting family members and even pets???!!

How do we stop the abuse of the system?

that is seriously disgusting. there needs to be more checks to the system. Saskatchewan may be ahead on this with requiring a health care card to prove residency. that's a much harder piece of ID to obtain fraudulently. the WIN card is too easy to obtain period and IS abused.


THIS IS A DRAW SYSTEM, there are no guarantees!! You can guarantee you will not be drawn but you cannot guarantee you will.

LC
of course there is. the priority system guarantees that if you wait your turn you will get a tag. BC has complete random lottery. you could watch your hunting buddy draw 5 Roosevelt elk and a couple dalls while you never pull a single tag ever. I like the priority better, but in some cases, demand vastly outweighs supply and priority doesn't work....mostly we see it with sheep.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 06-24-2013, 09:40 AM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: medicine hat
Posts: 9,037
Default

for those that cant see how 999 hampers the draw system, let me give you an example that I have very good knowledge of. last year, my business was expanding and going through some stuff that had me far too busy to hunt. in 2012, I 999d everything didn't pull a single draw tag. this year I am in better shape and will be able to hunt my arse off. I will be pulling 5 tags for sure through the draw, a 6th is possible, and if a miracle hits for a mtn goat I will have 7.

now consider for a moment if I was not able to 999 everything last year to bump my priority to guarantee that tag this year. i would not be drawing so many guarantees this year, and they would be going to those that applied steady for as many years as it took to get it.

for others using the example given a few posts back, if you 999 for 30 years and draw the tag in year 31...you are taking a tag from the pool that you would not have been able to get if you didn't have that priority. you would have had to apply for 3, 4 or however many years that particular draw takes.

for anyone thinking that my reasoning is selfish...think again. I am a guy that has used 999 to my advantage as much as I can in the past, and have done it again this year. i use 999 to the fullest, but i think dropping it is a simple way to benefit the most people. sometimes whats good for the most isn't whats good for me. ive also pointed out that i think the sheep draws need some tweaking....and there as well i am a high priority guy. personally im best off if its left alone for now....but i don't think my priority trumps the kids in particular that couldn't apply back when i started.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 06-24-2013, 09:45 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,775
Default

My point is a guy who 999 for 30 years is passing up several tags in his span if 30 years that go to another hunter....

Lets say he is putting in for something that takes 5 years to draw....in 30yrs that is 5-6 tags that he effectively passed on...to be able to get a guaranteed tags the year we wanted to or was able to hunt.

Thus those 5-6 tags go to someone else and give the opportunity to another.... If he took those tags out of the pool them those are 5-6 tags that may not be pursued and in effect are wasted.

LC
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.