Your Idea's, to face lift our current Draw System

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

My point is a guy who 999 for 30 years is passing up several tags in his span if 30 years that go to another hunter....

Lets say he is putting in for something that takes 5 years to draw....in 30yrs that is 5-6 tags that he effectively passed on...to be able to get a guaranteed tags the year we wanted to or was able to hunt.

Thus those 5-6 tags go to someone else and give the opportunity to another.... If he took those tags out of the pool them those are 5-6 tags that may not be pursued and in effect are wasted.

LC

if he didn't want to hunt for 30 years, he wouldn't have applied. the arithmetic is really pretty simple.

[normanrd]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

I haven't read everything here but sounds like some are in favor of dropping the 999 feature of the draw. One of the main reasons for this feature is for those that may not be able to hunt that year. This is the way I am this year, due to medical issues I will be lucky to get out this year at all, so I 999 all my draws hoping for better luck nest year.

This is an excellent thing to consider! Why should people not be allowed build priority just because they can't hunt often? Some people have to plan their whole lives around a hunt, not for the availability of the tag, but more because of time constraints/financial position/family commitments/ etc. if you take the 999 out, some people may not be able to make their hunts happen. No 999 works great for people who can hunt as much as they want any given year. The math still says that if I only take 1 tag in 30 years instead of 5 or 6, that I am not taking hunting opportunities away from others in the same draw pool. Sorry, the math does not add up and it really is quite simple!

Norm

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

if he didn't want to hunt for 30 years, he wouldn't have applied. the arithmetic is really pretty simple.

So you are saying to have no priority system at all?

My point is when the guy knows he wants to hunt a specific year for a draw species he can for sure....with P30 he will likely get drawn.

That is why we have a priority system....a queue to get into and wait your turn. We also have a "pass" on your turn system, aka 999.

If we didn't have that the guy who was putting in for 30 years and could not hunt is "burning" 5-6 tags in that time frame.

I think this is what brought in the 999 system in the first place?

People complained that the year they got drawn they may not be able to get out....I know I make hunting a priority in the fall but many do not/cannot.

LC

[bpk1982]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

My point is a guy who 999 for 30 years is passing up several tags in his span if 30 years that go to another hunter....

Lets say he is putting in for something that takes 5 years to draw....in 30yrs that is 5-6 tags that he effectively passed on...to be able to get a guaranteed tags the year we wanted to or was able to hunt.

Thus those 5-6 tags go to someone else and give the opportunity to another.... If he took those tags out of the pool them those are 5-6 tags that may not be pursued and in effect are wasted.

LC

The above example makes a lot of sense in my opinion...I am in favour of keeping 999 as it is...to me it doesn't make sense to eliminate it...I wouldn't want to hunt for example mule deer, elk and moose all in one season which theoretically could happen if I had to apply every year (without 999)...nor would I need that much meat...IMHO it makes more sense for a guy to be able to stagger his hunts and make plans that way...I think lefty is bang on with all of his points regarding 999...

And on another note, is it me or does BC's lottery system seem ludicrous? Having 999 should look pretty good compared to that...

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

10 quick Idea's of the top of my head

They may need tweeking, and are not set in stone in my mind!!


1. Verify all WIN #’s are valid people

• Proof of passed hunters training certificate
• Proof of Residency
• Picture I.D verification to obtain Win card ( and even have picture on Win cards)


2. New Albertans have to have residency for 1 year before obtaining a Win Card ( Canadian armed forces are waived one year wait)

3. Price increase for draw application

4. Deadline date to purchase draws .

• Failure to do so, will forfeit that said draw, and it’s priority points.
• Draws not purchased at deadline, go to the next available hunter.
• Doctors note or justified unforeseeable circumstances explaination can save forfeiture of priority points. ( if accepted before the deadline)


5. Draws that have a priority of more than 7 years , work off the priority system, with an allotment for 1 lottery tag, of which the hunter has less than 7 years priority.

6. Non resident hunters have their own dedicated draws, with a smaller % dedicated to them, according to harvest reports .

7. Harvest reports are mandatory at the end of every season, for all hunters. Draws can not be purchased until survey is completed.

8. Non residents can not be hunter hosted for , Mule deer, Sheep and Antelope, and Moose.

9. Create a lottery draw( like 438, a, b,c) in all sheep zones for November. ( limit of one lottery per zone, and perhaps it can me ran much like the goat draw, on zones that have less Bighorn numbers)

10. Limit the number of successful draws, someone can obtain in a year. ( example 3 successful draws per season)


I also have a Trophy hunting draw system I’ve thought of. That can co-exist with the system we basically have. I can pm anyone interested, it still needs input and tweeking.

First off you've lumped so much stuff not related to the actual draw system in with licensing and regulations it makes you look un informed. If you tried talking to a politician about your complaints, you'd go no where in a heart beat!

Yes some issues exist with non resident licensing.
Yes a tightening of the checks on licence requirements should be done.
Yes something needs to be done with long waiting on some licences.
No nothing actually needs to change with the actual draw system, it works better than most other jurisdictions.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

if he didn't want to hunt for 30 years, he wouldn't have applied. the arithmetic is really pretty simple.

Last year for example...for you. Life got in the way of hunting, what if you were forced to draw your 6 tags and they all got wasted...and no one else could use them?

That is not the solution to the issue. 999 is a scapegoat to other more important crucial issues like the definition of Alberta resident and other loopholes people are taking advantage of.

LC

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Last year for example...for you. Life got in the way of hunting, what if you were forced to draw your 6 tags and they all got wasted...and no one else could use them?

That is not the solution to the issue. 999 is a scapegoat to other more important crucial issues like the definition of Alberta resident and other loopholes people are taking advantage of.

LC

Why would the tags have been wasted? No one says your forced to draw the tags. But if you can't hunt as Dale couldnt last year you don't put in. Priority does change but you don't build above guys that can hunt. Doesn't change the priority system other than if you want points you actually have to put in for the tag.

[scrapper]

The system just needs to be simplified, the current system seems to be problematic in a sense that it generates so many questions, even after reading all the material you can still be unsure what you are doing is right.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Why would the tags have been wasted? No one says your forced to draw the tags. But if you can't hunt as Dale couldnt last year you don't put in. Priority does change but you don't build above guys that can hunt. Doesn't change the priority system other than if you want points you actually have to put in for the tag.

This is how it was pre999 draw code, I guess we have to ask why did they add the 999 code in the first place? I assume pressure from applicants was a reason? What was the issue then that had them create such a thing?

LC

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

This is how it was pre999 draw code, I guess we have to ask why did they add the 999 code in the first place? I assume pressure rom applicants was a reason? What was the issue then that had them create such a thing?

LC

That's right. The guy that puts in yearly dedicating himself doesn't get bumped by a guy that just keeps 999ing so as to get a tag when ever he wishes.

And I'm not sure why the 999 code was applied but I personally am not a fan.

[PLOTT]

The being able to harvest a trophy sheep then 999 the sheep draw was and is crazy! Did not start that way but pressure to keep priority was there. That would have changed the sheep draw top priority for sure.

[super7mag]

I agree with Dick, our system is way ahead of many others in North America. It seems like everyone wants there cake and eat it too. As long as our population keeps growing pressure on the draw system is going to increase. So other then somehow enforcing stopping multiple win cards or guys putting in for long lost relatives , that may curb the tide a bit but not much.

About the only thing I could see in relieving some of the pressure on the system would be go to a 2 pool set up. Pool "A" remains exact same way our current system works including the use of 999. It would see 75-80% of tag allotments allowed in each wmu. Pool"B" would be a pure lottery pool for those willing to gamble and hunt spur of the moment. Once a pool had been chosen for a specific draw code that is the one you remain in until you draw a tag. No going back and forth. And a second caveat would be that after successful draw all parciptants would be ineligible To apply for that draw code the next season, inn effect taking a time out , this would allow for more people to be drawn the next year. I'm sure with some tweaking a system like this could be used.

[aulrich]

1. Picture ID is tough for a 12 year old

2. No way, once the Alberta gov is taking my money, I can get a licence, very least show an Alberta health card for residency.

3. If it went to wildlife or enforcement then yes, but it goes to general revenue so , no more new tax please.

4. Un-workable and won't get you, your tag any faster, the allotments take into account a percent of no-shows remove that and you will need to reduce tags so net zero effect.


5. Workable gives hope to a sheep hunter that does not already have priority 15

6. workable

7. Statistically not needed, waste of time and regulation remember every rule needs to be enforced

8. If they have there own draw why not, if you will force them to outfitters they will not need to draw, just buy an outfitter tag. Just remove NR ability to hunt those spiecies

9. no opinion

10. I go to 4 or 5, I time my deer draws to have all tags, to make the trips less frequent but more worth while. but that is still only one trip, I may want to hunt turkey that year too.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Dick284

First off you've lumped so much stuff not related to the actual draw system in with licensing and regulations it makes you look un informed. If you tried talking to a politician about your complaints, you'd go no where in a heart beat!

Yes some issues exist with non resident licensing.
Yes a tightening of the checks on licence requirements should be done.
Yes something needs to be done with long waiting on some licences.
No nothing actually needs to change with the actual draw system, it works better than most other jurisdictions.

Hey Dick, Those are just some of my opinions ! I don't see any of yours! How do you think i'm uninformed? maybe explain it instead of just commenting, that doesn't help! or read the whole thread first....

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

10 quick Idea's of the top of my head

They may need tweeking, and are not set in stone in my mind!!


1. Verify all WIN #’s are valid people

• Proof of passed hunters training certificate
• Proof of Residency
• Picture I.D verification to obtain Win card ( and even have picture on Win cards)


2. New Albertans have to have residency for 1 year before obtaining a Win Card ( Canadian armed forces are waived one year wait)

Love this

3. Price increase for draw application

I would argue doing this substantially for non-residents like $50 an application or something

4. Deadline date to purchase draws .

• Failure to do so, will forfeit that said draw, and it’s priority points.
• Draws not purchased at deadline, go to the next available hunter.
• Doctors note or justified unforeseeable circumstances explaination can save forfeiture of priority points. ( if accepted before the deadline)


5. Draws that have a priority of more than 7 years , work off the priority system, with an allotment for 1 lottery tag, of which the hunter has less than 7 years priority.

6. Non resident hunters have their own dedicated draws, with a smaller % dedicated to them, according to harvest reports .

With Apos only permited in areas where there is the majority of land in the WMU is public land and non-residents permited only to have up to low % (5-10) in ALL WMU's


7. Harvest reports are mandatory at the end of every season, for all hunters. Draws can not be purchased until survey is completed.

Love, make public the info of harvest.

8. Non residents can not be hunter hosted for , Mule deer, Sheep and Antelope, and Moose.

Disagree with that one

9. Create a lottery draw( like 438, a, b,c) in all sheep zones for November. ( limit of one lottery per zone, and perhaps it can me ran much like the goat draw, on zones that have less Bighorn numbers)

10. Limit the number of successful draws, someone can obtain in a year. ( example 3 successful draws per season)


I also have a Trophy hunting draw system I’ve thought of. That can co-exist with the system we basically have. I can pm anyone interested, it still needs input and tweeking.

No non-residents in wmu's where there is a P-4 or greater wait for residents

[Bownsaw30]

Being someone who moved from another province to here i must say waiting 1 year before being able to apply for a draw is bogus, completely unnecessary you're just attempting to limit hunters from a hunting experience for only 1 year it really makes no difference you will still eventually have to compete with that hunter for draws eventually. As for increasing the draw prices yet again a movement into "selective" hunters because where will it end 36$ a draw, 50$ a draw, 75$,so on and so on???? then maybe people like myself could only afford to put in for 1 species a year which yet again would be unfortunate. my final opinion on the Alberta draw system is that i like it honestly, you move up in a priority system, its inexpensive to increase your priority over the years and it resets after you obtain one. Now as per suggestions for the system I think it would be great if the province could post a break down of the # of tags that will be issued in each WMU as most of us live around more than one and could easily travel between 3 that way you could see where your best probablity to be drawn would be from. Thats all I cant wait to hear everyone elses thoughts on this subject.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Hey Dick, Those are just some of my opinions ! I don't see any of yours! How do you think i'm uninformed? maybe explain it instead of just commenting, that doesn't help! or read the whole thread first....

Holy crap, please come down to earth!

You've mixed draws, licensing, and rules and regs under the guise of it all being draw related!

I gave my opinions at the end of my post!

Take a deep breath, compose yourself, then book an appointment with Minister McQueen.

I know I have, on more than one occasion.
She says all she gets are poorly contrived emails and letters, some of them so convoluted, and un intelligible, that she cannot even get what the issue is.

Book an appointment, bring your concerns, dress respectfully, act intelligent, and maybe some things will change.

If you step back and notice APOS runs circles around the residents because,they have the where for all and knowhow to navigate the world of politics.

Most locals only excel at whining in the coffee shop.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Bownsaw30

Being someone who moved from another province to here i must say waiting 1 year before being able to apply for a draw is bogus, completely unnecessary you're just attempting to limit hunters from a hunting experience for only 1 year it really makes no difference you will still eventually have to compete with that hunter for draws eventually. As for increasing the draw prices yet again a movement into "selective" hunters because where will it end 36$ a draw, 50$ a draw, 75$,so on and so on???? then maybe people like myself could only afford to put in for 1 species a year which yet again would be unfortunate. my final opinion on the Alberta draw system is that i like it honestly, you move up in a priority system, its inexpensive to increase your priority over the years and it resets after you obtain one. Now as per suggestions for the system I think it would be great if the province could post a break down of the # of tags that will be issued in each WMU as most of us live around more than one and could easily travel between 3 that way you could see where your best probablity to be drawn would be from. Thats all I cant wait to hear everyone elses thoughts on this subject.

We understand we will eventually have to compete with that hunter but if they prove they have lived here a full year they have shown they will probably be a full time resident.
Personally if I moved to a new province and was going to be vying for that provinces tags I'd be more than happy to show my year residency and be thankful I even get a chance not just want all the perks of that province as fast as I can!!!!

[recce43]

3. Price increase for draw application
I guess you want hunting for the rich only ..

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by recce43

3. Price increase for draw application
I guess you want hunting for the rich only ..

So if it was $10 - $50 people couldn't afford to hunt?

Maybe they couldn't apply for 20 draws but I'm sure most could save up over the year to afford a few.

They can afford $1.20 fuel, bullets, guns, trucks but no one wants to pay a few extra dollars to apply for draws. I'm sure of they can't afford an increase in draw prices they can't afford the tags anyways.

[recce43]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

So if it was $10 - $50 people couldn't afford to hunt?

Maybe they couldn't apply for 20 draws but I'm sure most could save up over the year to afford a few.

They can afford $1.20 fuel, bullets, guns, trucks but no one wants to pay a few extra dollars to apply for draws. I'm sure of they can't afford an increase in draw prices they can't afford the tags anyways.

some people have limited resources for draw and tags to pay for hunting .
so its ok to hurt those type of people?

[walking buffalo]

the allotments take into account a percent of no-shows remove that and you will need to reduce tags so net zero effect.

This has been brought up many times.

Is it correct? I have my doubts. It could be a myth.


If you know that it is correct, What is the percentage of the licences expected to not be purchased?

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

I haven't read everything here but sounds like some are in favor of dropping the 999 feature of the draw. One of the main reasons for this feature is for those that may not be able to hunt that year. This is the way I am this year, due to medical issues I will be lucky to get out this year at all, so I 999 all my draws hoping for better luck nest year.

I am in the same boat as you. I will not be hunting this year.....maybe not even next year. Obviously I would rather not see the 999 option disappear. Like others, I fail to see how 999 is adding to wait times.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by recce43

some people have limited resources for draw and tags to pay for hunting .
so its ok to hurt those type of people?

Maybe we should lower prices so these people can afford more? Sorry but sometimes prices need to increase to keep up with the times. I've gone without lots in my life due to inflation!! Many have! But sorry sometimes it just needs to be! With the large increases in the population we need something to change if we ever want certain tags at least once in our life.

[Pathfinder76]

It's simple. Increase application and licence fees. Done.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by chuck

It's simple. Increase application and licence fees. Done.

X2

[sheepguide]

The other thing I'd like to see is NR hunters having to pay royalty fees on animals harvested. You buy your tag, hunt the animal and are successful it should no matter the species be registered and a royalty paid at that time!!

[recce43]

funny see i have money but i do not agree with raising fees .

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by recce43

funny see i have money but i do not agree with raising fees .

Then continue to wait.

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by recce43

some people have limited resources for draw and tags to pay for hunting .
so its ok to hurt those type of people?

I believe there is a provision that was introduced a few years ago that if you fall below a certain income or can prove a dire economic need for wild meat to subsist on the province will issue you tags at their discretion for certain species.