Your Idea's, to face lift our current Draw System

[hal53]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

IF they were to draw without using the 999 system, your wait time wouldn't be a 4, it would be an 8 and nothing would change, unless tags were cut back !

the point is, a lot of those guys are applying for multiple draws due to the fact that when they get drawn for the animal (s), they DO want to hunt, they know they are back to low priority, so they then cash in their priority for animals...just because....
The general consensus here is the system needs fixing, just don't mess with the way "I " do my draws.....

[hal53]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

IF they were to draw without using the 999 system, your wait time wouldn't be a 4, it would be an 8 and nothing would change, unless tags were cut back !

the point is, a lot of those guys are applying for multiple draws due to the fact that when they get drawn for the animal (s), they DO want to hunt, they know they are back to low priority, so they then cash in their priority for animals...just because....
The general consensus here is the system needs fixing, just don't mess with the way "I " do my draws.....so, as per usual we are our own worst enemy.....

[Roughneck Country]

If you cant afford an increase in the current cost of licencing in AB what the hell are you doing hunting in the first place???? Its way cheaper to buy beef at the store than hunt unless your shooting it out in the back yard. Venison is the most expensive meat I eat, by the time gas, time off work etc... is taken into account I could have bought way more at the store.

The suggestion to increase in licencing and draw cost isn't people trying to be elitist its simply another tool to get the desired results out of the draw system. Like mentioned above if you cant afford a $25 or $35 application cost you should really think about whether you can afford to hunt period.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Back logs are happening, because there is an increase in population applying draws, while Esrd are reducing tags.

By population, it is not "new" hunters, but hunters that are new to the draw system.

This is what happens as more and more general seasons are changed to draw seasons.


Removing the 999 system will not fix anything. Perform a test model and you'll see.

But I sure do love reading all these calls for hunter management while there is hardly a peep about Wildlife management.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by Jim

I think that some changes should be made for who is eligible to apply for draws. I think people applying for draws should have to meet the following conditions:

1. Person must have been born in Alberta and have a current Alberta residence.
2. Person must be over 18.
3. Person must have filed an income tax return for the previous three years or be a senior who is retired.

Well as for point one I personlly couldn't decide where I was born but I got to Alberta as fast as I could. Never looked back, sure hope I don't get punished for not being born here.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

I know a pile of guys that 999 many tags that They normaly would have no intention of ever hunting but since it's $3 they 999 every tag they can and then one day just apply simply because they are high priority not because it's somethIng they really want to hunt. If it wasn't for the 999 system these guys never would have pulled that tag leaving it for others that really wanted it. Take a bunch of these guys out and it will help as it frees up their tags.

Never use to do this but guilty of it now. One day my buddy and I talked about the excessive wait times for draws and decided it would be best to put in for everything even if we never wanted to hunt it today so that in 10 or 15 years when/if we did want to hunt the option would be there and not have to start building priority points at that time. With the way things are going with the current system the chances of getting drawn on these "super" tags are slim to none if you havent been building priority points.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

By population, it is not "new" hunters, but hunters that are new to the draw system.

This is what happens as more and more general seasons are changed to draw seasons.


Removing the 999 system will not fix anything. Perform a test model and you'll see.

But I sure do love reading all these calls for hunter management while there is hardly a peep about Wildlife management.

How can it not help? If you remove 999 I bet only half them guys would ever apply if they had to pull the tag what ever year drawn not the year they so choose. Even if it removed 1/4 of applicants In a draw with 10,000 999 applicants that can be a significant decrease in applicants and can help bring the supply and demand numbers closer together.

You guys only plan on all those 999 guys to keep applying but they won't as they have to commit and many won't because they aren't in control any longer.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

Never use to do this but guilty of it now. One day my buddy and I talked about the excessive wait times for draws and decided it would be best to put in for everything even if we never wanted to hunt it today so that in 10 or 15 years when/if we did want to hunt the option would be there and not have to start building priority points at that time. With the way things are going with the current system the chances of getting drawn on these "super" tags are slim to none if you havent been building priority points.

Lots do. And in many draws you must as if you don't you will never get a tag. Future hunters have minimal hope in a lot of zones the way things are going.

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

Well as for point one I personlly couldn't decide where I was born but I got to Alberta as fast as I could. Never looked back, sure hope I don't get punished for not being born here.

!!! Point #1 (must be born in Alberta) would certainly cut back the wait time. lol.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

How can it not help? If you remove 999 I bet only half them guys would ever apply if they had to pull the tag what ever year drawn not the year they so choose. Even if it removed 1/4 of applicants In a draw with 10,000 999 applicants that can be a significant decrease in applicants and can help bring the supply and demand numbers closer together.

You guys only plan on all those 999 guys to keep applying but they won't as they have to commit and many won't because they aren't in control any longer.

Because people will apply as we did before the 999 system.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Because people will apply as we did before the 999 system.

not if you put a cap on the number of draws applied for in a year....

[super7mag]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

If you cant afford an increase in the current cost of licencing in AB what the hell are you doing hunting in the first place???? Its way cheaper to buy beef at the store than hunt unless your shooting it out in the back yard. Venison is the most expensive meat I eat, by the time gas, time off work etc... is taken into account I could have bought way more at the store.

The suggestion to increase in licencing and draw cost isn't people trying to be elitist its simply another tool to get the desired results out of the draw system. Like mentioned above if you cant afford a $25 or $35 application cost you should really think about whether you can afford to hunt period.

I don't seeing 25-35$ deterring too many from putting in the draw . How high would you have to put it to actually deter applicants? 100? 1000? This is where the elitest arguement comes from. If the extra money goes into general coffers the government will pi$$ it away without doing anything for game management or conservation. There are things that can be approved on with the current system , the biggest being sure the Win card situation gets rectafied. Which brings up another question how does IBM get paid. If it gets a cut per applicant I can see a big problem there.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

I know a pile of guys that 999 many tags that They normaly would have no intention of ever hunting but since it's $3 they 999 every tag they can and then one day just apply simply because they are high priority not because it's somethIng they really want to hunt. If it wasn't for the 999 system these guys never would have pulled that tag leaving it for others that really wanted it. Take a bunch of these guys out and it will help as it frees up their tags.

Dumping the 999 system would weed out the same guys you are hoping to eliminate by raising application fees... Wouldn't it? I would much rather say goodbye to 999 than hello to higher application fees.

What would happen if successful applicants had to wait 3yrs before applying for the same species again?

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

How can it not help? If you remove 999 I bet only half them guys would ever apply if they had to pull the tag what ever year drawn not the year they so choose. Even if it removed 1/4 of applicants In a draw with 10,000 999 applicants that can be a significant decrease in applicants and can help bring the supply and demand numbers closer together.

You guys only plan on all those 999 guys to keep applying but they won't as they have to commit and many won't because they aren't in control any longer.

Or many of them would still apply hoping that when they get drawn, the hunt will work out with "life", and if it doesn't work out, then "oh well" they get drawn but the tag goes to waste.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by super7mag

I don't seeing 25-35$ deterring too many from putting in the draw . How high would you have to put it to actually deter applicants? 100? 1000? This is where the elitest arguement comes from. If the extra money goes into general coffers the government will pi$$ it away without doing anything for game management or conservation. There are things that can be approved on with the current system , the biggest being sure the Win card situation gets rectafied. Which brings up another question how does IBM get paid. If it gets a cut per applicant I can see a big problem there.

My understanding....IBM gets every dime of draw money, they sold it as the cost to administer the process....ALL of it, nothing goes to the Government (other than the taxes) and nothing is put back into conservation or enforcement.

LC

[Deer Hunter]

Removing the 999 choice wont reduce wait times, it will just mean guys will get drawn and waste the tag by not showing up for the hunt.

Edit: sako grey wolf beat me to it,

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Removing the 999 choice wont reduce wait times, it will just mean guys will get drawn and waste the tag by not showing up for the hunt.

Edit: sako grey wolf beat me to it,

once again, not if you limit the number of draws a person can apply for in a year. The shotgun applications are part of the problem as well.

[super7mag]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

My understanding....IBM gets every dime of draw money, they sold it as the cost to administer the process....ALL of it, nothing goes to the Government (other than the taxes) and nothing is put back into conservation or enforcement.

LC

Well I can see them in favour of a big hike!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Removing the 999 choice wont reduce wait times, it will just mean guys will get drawn and waste the tag by not showing up for the hunt.

Edit: sako grey wolf beat me to it,

X2....guys figure if they get drawn they will just make it happen, some can and many can't.

I would guess that ebbs and flows in the draws vary much more by how many guys are at each priority level and do not ever 999 when compared to the guys that do 999.

There is not the same number of hunters at each priority level, this causes longer and shorter wait times also, when compared year over year.

LC

[hal53]

Originally Posted by super7mag

Well I can see them in favour of a big hike!

be pretty simple to circumvent IBM and put additional funds received into SRD operations only.

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by super7mag

I don't seeing 25-35$ deterring too many from putting in the draw . How high would you have to put it to actually deter applicants? 100? 1000? This is where the elitest arguement comes from. If the extra money goes into general coffers the government will pi$$ it away without doing anything for game management or conservation. There are things that can be approved on with the current system , the biggest being sure the Win card situation gets rectafied. Which brings up another question how does IBM get paid. If it gets a cut per applicant I can see a big problem there.

Right now if a person applies for 10 draws it costs approx. $36. Let's say fees are raised to say $25 and the total was then $250. Still affordable, but I have no doubt the difference would weed out a lot of the "applying for the sake of applying" group.

[elkfriend]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

My understanding....IBM gets every dime of draw money, they sold it as the cost to administer the process....ALL of it, nothing goes to the Government (other than the taxes) and nothing is put back into conservation or enforcement.

LC

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT

....it just seems completely unreasonable.

Do you know that for sure?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by elkfriend

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT

....it just seems completely unreasonable.

Do you know that for sure?

I recall being told that the fees for draws were what they are because IBM needs to charge a fee to cover the cost of the draw infrastructure....I hope I am wrong but this is what I was told many years ago.

LC

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Removing the 999 choice wont reduce wait times, it will just mean guys will get drawn and waste the tag by not showing up for the hunt.

Edit: sako grey wolf beat me to it,

Well I guess than the only answer to reducing wait times is to jack prices and eliminate numbers that way.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Removing the 999 choice wont reduce wait times, it will just mean guys will get drawn and waste the tag by not showing up for the hunt.

Edit: sako grey wolf beat me to it,

X2

Again the 999 doesn't increase draw times.

Like jamie said yearlier 999 basically existed pre 999 anyways...just apply with a lower priority.

...the problem isn't people management...its proper game management, that's what we need to focus on, and only that will reduce draw times.

[recce43]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

If you cant afford an increase in the current cost of licencing in AB what the hell are you doing hunting in the first place???? Its way cheaper to buy beef at the store than hunt unless your shooting it out in the back yard. Venison is the most expensive meat I eat, by the time gas, time off work etc... is taken into account I could have bought way more at the store.

The suggestion to increase in licencing and draw cost isn't people trying to be elitist its simply another tool to get the desired results out of the draw system. Like mentioned above if you cant afford a $25 or $35 application cost you should really think about whether you can afford to hunt period.

yup lets make everything in this fine prov. expensive I take friends out to hunt that don't make all the much they put in for there draws and have a great outdoor experence .. but i guess you only want them to hunt general tags so you don't have to wait as long for your tag.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by hal53

once again, not if you limit the number of draws a person can apply for in a year. The shotgun applications are part of the problem as well.

Hal by reducing the number of draws you can apply for, your actually increase draw times by double on the draws you can't apply for.....the number of draws you apply for doesn't change the draw wait time. That's all game dependant nothing more, the amount of draw tags that is.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Well I guess than the only answer to reducing wait times is to jack prices and eliminate numbers that way.

Prices could go up a bit I agree but that wont have a big effect imo.

Maybe increase the number of draw opportunities? Take back the outfitter and non resident tags, this adds +/- 20% to the number of tags available to the residents, harvest success rates being equal.

Add an early season archery draw - that may pull an additional 10-20% of applicants out of the rifle draw pool.

Now add a three week muzzleloader season in October - that may again pull 10%-20% out of the rifle draw pool.

Now the rifle draw pool has 30-40% fewer warm bodies applying and has 20% more tags. That will shorten or help to shorten draw times.
Get it?

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Hal by reducing the number of draws you can apply for, your actually increase draw times by double on the draws you can't apply for.....the number of draws you apply for doesn't change the draw wait time. That's all game dependant nothing more, the amount of draw tags that is.

That is flawed thinking in these days, where you realistically may only hunt "bull" antelope, moose or elk one more time in your life given the reality of the trends.

Reality is that you wont be able to hunt everything, as much as you want, so pick something (or in Hals case pick 3) that you focus on and leave the others to someone else to enjoy before they die with a Priority 85 in 15 different species.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

That is flawed thinking in these days, where you realistically may only hunt "bull" antelope, moose or elk one more time in your life given the reality of the trends.

Reality is that you wont be able to hunt everything, as much as you want, so pick something (or in Hals case pick 3) that you focus on and leave the others to someone else to enjoy before they die with a Priority 85 in 15 different species.

If you think fraudulent draws were an issue before wait till you tell some people that they can only put in for 3 things....every wife, kid, dog, grandma and grandpa is going to be taking the hunting course and putting in for draws ....

I know in our Family we all stagger moose draws via 999 so that we can plan ahead on splitting a moose between the 4 of us every year....the area we go to takes about 4 years to get a tag....we have a rotation set up so we have 1 moose to split between the 4 families every year.

I wouldn't want to have 4 moose draws in a single year.

LC