View Poll Results: Allow .223” diam. bullets as new min. for hunting?
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Yes
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140 |
38.25% |
No
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207 |
56.56% |
Undecided
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19 |
5.19% |
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08-06-2018, 09:35 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyksta
hahaha. derailed already
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Yup,that went sideways quick,Bahahahaa!!😂😝
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The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
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08-06-2018, 09:48 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee
I wouldn't be limiting it to Magnum users or place of residence but my bet would be that more chit happens between 300-600 yds than longer .. with any rifle or cartridge. Just a guess though.
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^^this indeed!!
From what I've seen through personal observation,many hunters absolutely suck at range guesstimation.
Personally,I'm pretty confident in my own range guesstimates out to 300,and not a real big cocern anyhow as I can "hold on hair/not air" out to 300y,but I won't take a longer shot without a rangefinder.
From what I've witnessed through guiding and hunting with many buddies over 4 decades,most people either grossly under or overestimate range to target animals,especially in that 300-1000 range,they are not even close,and have no business taking shots past 300 without a rangefinder and a helluva lot more trigger time then the average hunter has behind their rifle.
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The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
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08-06-2018, 12:02 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: south calgary
Posts: 2,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rem338win
Since when does calibre help poor shooting. A .338 in the guts doesn't kill any better.
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Of course it does, what is wrong with you! You honestly think an animal would die just as slow with a 22 to the guts or with a 338 to the guts with half of them blown out the other side. It’s certsinly not ideal or usually planned but give your head a shake man!!
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08-06-2018, 01:02 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cowtown, agian
Posts: 2,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm
Of course it does, what is wrong with you! You honestly think an animal would die just as slow with a 22 to the guts or with a 338 to the guts with half of them blown out the other side. It’s certsinly not ideal or usually planned but give your head a shake man!!
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Yes it would. You have no idea how ballistics actually work, nor biology of you think this way.
You'll blow way more guts out the other side of a deer with a 70gr hornady and a .22-250 than you will with a .338 WM and a 250gr Swift.
Dying of sepsis and organ failure is just that. Its days and weeks sometimes and because it's not bleeding out calibre has nothing to do with it.
Give your head a shake man. Talk to a veteranarian that hunts. I know several.
People that are supporting calibre restrictions based on how they perform gut shooting strike me as clueless and unrealistic. The point is to hit the front half and that's what it all should be based on.
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-Thomas Paine
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08-06-2018, 04:33 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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There must be something wrong with my Internet search engine.
When I Google "excellent" Deer catrage for hunting all top 5, 7, and 10 calibers or cartrages that pop up are from 243 on up, including the 338.
The first 7 pages, and not one 223 showed up.
Maybe I should of tried a different word in the search. Ha
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08-06-2018, 05:24 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Google is an "excellent" source of finding information. Ha
Last edited by Don_Parsons; 08-06-2018 at 05:36 PM.
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08-06-2018, 05:43 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Does the google hunt much I wonder?
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If it did, it would pick a more suitable calibre.
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08-06-2018, 06:14 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyksta
If it did, it would pick a more suitable calibre.
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And it did, everything from 243 on up to the big bores. Ha
7 pages and not one 223 caliber. Not quite sure how "excellent" ended up in the mix. LOL
If the 223 is excellent, then everything larger than it is awesome.
Who doesn't want to be surrounded by awesome-ness on every outing. Plus it opens the doorway to critters much larger then Deer.
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08-06-2018, 06:32 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 970
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Next week we can use a 223 on grizzly. 😂
It’s not enough gun for deer. Not enough power. Wind drift Trophy deer at 300 I’ll take a 270
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08-06-2018, 08:00 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: south calgary
Posts: 2,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rem338win
Yes it would. You have no idea how ballistics actually work, nor biology of you think this way.
You'll blow way more guts out the other side of a deer with a 70gr hornady and a .22-250 than you will with a .338 WM and a 250gr Swift.
Dying of sepsis and organ failure is just that. Its days and weeks sometimes and because it's not bleeding out calibre has nothing to do with it.
Give your head a shake man. Talk to a veteranarian that hunts. I know several.
People that are supporting calibre restrictions based on how they perform gut shooting strike me as clueless and unrealistic. The point is to hit the front half and that's what it all should be based on.
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Whatever, and of course, you always hit the front half dont you ? Never made a shot that wasnt perfect have you. Your about as reliable as your quoted statement, mr perfect,,,, everyone forget all the ammunition debates and just believe this guy, debate is now closed, all hail rem 338win, all hail rem 338win
Last edited by Xbolt7mm; 08-06-2018 at 08:05 PM.
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08-06-2018, 08:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: south calgary
Posts: 2,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyksta
If it did, it would pick a more suitable calibre.
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This guy
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08-06-2018, 08:09 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: south calgary
Posts: 2,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
So is doing. You should try it sometime.
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Chucky and rem338win may be the same person. , everyone else is always wrong with him too, All hail king chucky, all hail king chucky
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08-06-2018, 08:16 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
So is doing. You should try it sometime.
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I have, lots of downed critters with out a problem.
Over gunned is a awesome camp to be in.
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08-06-2018, 08:16 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: south calgary
Posts: 2,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
And yet you maline first hand experience here? Exceptional.
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Lmao, because YOU say you have first hand experience we should all bow down to you chucky?? Exceptional!!! As you are aware the internet is full of people who SAY/WRITE/WISH what they can do and mock others for questioning them. 99 percent of the people here dont know you yet you expect them all to believe your garbage without question or thought, news flash chucky, most of those reading and not responding are thinking the same as me and its not, All Hail King Chucky!!
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08-06-2018, 09:17 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Strathmore
Posts: 5,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rem338win
Yes it would. You have no idea how ballistics actually work, nor biology of you think this way.
You'll blow way more guts out the other side of a deer with a 70gr hornady and a .22-250 than you will with a .338 WM and a 250gr Swift.
Dying of sepsis and organ failure is just that. Its days and weeks sometimes and because it's not bleeding out calibre has nothing to do with it.
Give your head a shake man. Talk to a veteranarian that hunts. I know several.
People that are supporting calibre restrictions based on how they perform gut shooting strike me as clueless and unrealistic. The point is to hit the front half and that's what it all should be based on.
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Now I know we can all get a little loose with reality when emotions are running high, but you really need to re-visit your hunting vet buddy. He tries to tell you a deer gut-shot with a 338 gonna live weeks, you need to feed him more beer or less.......
If you've hunted as much as you want us to believe, you've had at least one shot back a little farther than you'd wish.
You nor your confused buddies have mentioned the much higher likelihood of a successful follow up shot on the 338 vs the 223.
__________________
If you're not a Liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a Conservative when you're old, you have no brain. Winston Churchill
You can, you should, & if you're brave enough to start, you will. Stephen King
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08-06-2018, 09:22 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Strathmore
Posts: 5,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
So do I. One is originally from the US and recommends the 233 as an excellent deer round. He would use it if he could here.
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Funny quite a few hunters think of elk, moose, the big bears as big game. Your buddy there has no plans to shoot big stuff with the 223, leave the cal restrictions where they are, or raise them.
__________________
If you're not a Liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a Conservative when you're old, you have no brain. Winston Churchill
You can, you should, & if you're brave enough to start, you will. Stephen King
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08-06-2018, 09:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glen moa
Next week we can use a 223 on grizzly. 😂
It’s not enough gun for deer. Not enough power. Wind drift Trophy deer at 300 I’ll take a 270
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Funny you mention that... some already are.
https://youtu.be/YffrqFAagWU
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08-06-2018, 09:24 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roper1
Now I know we can all get a little loose with reality when emotions are running high, but you really need to re-visit your hunting vet buddy. He tries to tell you a deer gut-shot with a 338 gonna live weeks, you need to feed him more beer or less.......
If you've hunted as much as you want us to believe, you've had at least one shot back a little farther than you'd wish.
You nor your confused buddies have mentioned the much higher likelihood of a successful follow up shot on the 338 vs the 223.
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The 338 shot deer would not need a follow up shot, but would be easy to find as it would be down on the ground. The 223 shot deer would be running and harder to hit.
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08-06-2018, 09:31 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyksta
The 338 shot deer would not need a follow up shot, but would be easy to find as it would be down on the ground. The 223 shot deer would be running and harder to hit.
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Not true at all. I personally witnessed the exact scenario go down. A friend of mine shot a buck with his 338win in the gut and we watched him empty the rest of his rifle at the deer while the deer stood next to a round bale. After about a half hour my phone rang, it was his wife saying he had ran out of bullets!
One shot with a 280 dropped the deer flat in his tracks. Undeniable proof the 280 is a better deer rifle than the 338win...... right?
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08-06-2018, 09:41 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
Not true at all. I personally witnessed the exact scenario go down. A friend of mine shot a buck with his 338win in the gut and we watched him empty the rest of his rifle at the deer while the deer stood next to a round bale. After about a half hour my phone rang, it was his wife saying he had ran out of bullets!
One shot with a 280 dropped the deer flat in his tracks. Undeniable proof the 280 is a better deer rifle than the 338win...... right?
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It sounds like that buck didnt go very far after the first 338 hit, and that your buddy rifle wasn't shooting straight with any if his shots. Your 280AI is by far one of the best cartridges ever created, much better than a 223. Now go help your buddy zero his rifle.
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08-06-2018, 09:48 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Strathmore
Posts: 5,573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
Not true at all. I personally witnessed the exact scenario go down. A friend of mine shot a buck with his 338win in the gut and we watched him empty the rest of his rifle at the deer while the deer stood next to a round bale. After about a half hour my phone rang, it was his wife saying he had ran out of bullets!
One shot with a 280 dropped the deer flat in his tracks. Undeniable proof the 280 is a better deer rifle than the 338win...... right?
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Kurt you described exactly my scenario all right. The deer stood by the bale long enough for buddy to empty his gun, then long enough for you to finish the job properly.
Half an hour in one spot, plus the time it took you to get there.
__________________
If you're not a Liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a Conservative when you're old, you have no brain. Winston Churchill
You can, you should, & if you're brave enough to start, you will. Stephen King
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08-06-2018, 10:06 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyksta
It sounds like that buck didnt go very far after the first 338 hit, and that your buddy rifle wasn't shooting straight with any if his shots. Your 280AI is by far one of the best cartridges ever created, much better than a 223. Now go help your buddy zero his rifle.
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It was before the 280ai, just the regular 280rem with 140gr ballistic tip and the deer ran over 1/2mile when we drove into the field to help out my buddy. The deer ran half way through the field he was in, all the way across the next quarter and was finally taken down crossing a meadow half way across the next quarter.
To be honest, as much as I like the 280 I think it was because it was hit in the heart the second shot and sadly not because of the cartridge.
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08-06-2018, 11:04 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
Not true at all. I personally witnessed the exact scenario go down. A friend of mine shot a buck with his 338win in the gut and we watched him empty the rest of his rifle at the deer while the deer stood next to a round bale. After about a half hour my phone rang, it was his wife saying he had ran out of bullets!
One shot with a 280 dropped the deer flat in his tracks. Undeniable proof the 280 is a better deer rifle than the 338win...... right?
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He must have went to the chuck and Kurt school of shooting ha!
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08-06-2018, 11:07 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,701
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The rules are good the way they are
No need to change them
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08-06-2018, 11:10 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark
He must have went to the chuck and Kurt school of shooting ha!
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You only wish you could shoot half as good as me figjam, whether it be with a gun or a bow I can tell just by listening to you yap you wouldn't stand a chance. Most likely the reason why you feel the need to shoot a magnum. Bahahaha!
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08-07-2018, 05:08 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
Not true at all. I personally witnessed the exact scenario go down. A friend of mine shot a buck with his 338win in the gut and we watched him empty the rest of his rifle at the deer while the deer stood next to a round bale. After about a half hour my phone rang, it was his wife saying he had ran out of bullets!
One shot with a 280 dropped the deer flat in his tracks. Undeniable proof the 280 is a better deer rifle than the 338win...... right?
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Funny how the story played out different from the first tall tail. At first you "personal" watched him in the above statement.
Now you've mentioned you came along later. Huuuuum,
>>> It was before the 280ai, just the regular 280rem with 140gr ballistic tip and the deer ran over 1/2mile when we drove into the field to help out my buddy. The deer ran half way through the field he was in, all the way across the next quarter and was finally taken down crossing a meadow half way across the next quarter.
To be honest, as much as I like the 280 I think it was because it was hit in the heart the second shot and sadly not because of the cartridge.
^^^ At first it was 1 shot, now it's 2 shots. Something is not adding up in distance either.
The Deer ran half way across the first quarter then ended up half way across the next,,, 880 yards, strange since the longest shot on a deer you mentioned was 600 + yards on another thread.
So the 280 wasn't good enough, so the 280AI showed up to fill in for the lack of knock down power, seems strange indeed to all the readers one would think.
Most of us are very capable of harvesting big game with the cartrages we have, if this wasn't the case after a life time of hunting and gathering,,, why would we own the big game cartrages we own.
Doesn't really matter since we're sure the story will change once again.
One would think that as a guide for all those years that you would of checked to see that all the hunters in the group were on target long before this hunt.
Any guided hunts we've been on required us to hit the target with at least 3 shoots to confirm our rifles are on target and that we're up for the hunt.
Why would a person go guiding for someone who can't hit paper little lone a game animal.
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08-07-2018, 06:29 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Parsons
Funny how the story played out different from the first tall tail. At first you "personal" watched him in the above statement.
Now you've mentioned you came along later. Huuuuum,
>>> It was before the 280ai, just the regular 280rem with 140gr ballistic tip and the deer ran over 1/2mile when we drove into the field to help out my buddy. The deer ran half way through the field he was in, all the way across the next quarter and was finally taken down crossing a meadow half way across the next quarter.
To be honest, as much as I like the 280 I think it was because it was hit in the heart the second shot and sadly not because of the cartridge.
^^^ At first it was 1 shot, now it's 2 shots. Something is not adding up in distance either.
The Deer ran half way across the first quarter then ended up half way across the next,,, 880 yards, strange since the longest shot on a deer you mentioned was 600 + yards on another thread.
So the 280 wasn't good enough, so the 280AI showed up to fill in for the lack of knock down power, seems strange indeed to all the readers one would think.
Most of us are very capable of harvesting big game with the cartrages we have, if this wasn't the case after a life time of hunting and gathering,,, why would we own the big game cartrages we own.
Doesn't really matter since we're sure the story will change once again.
One would think that as a guide for all those years that you would of checked to see that all the hunters in the group were on target long before this hunt.
Any guided hunts we've been on required us to hit the target with at least 3 shoots to confirm our rifles are on target and that we're up for the hunt.
Why would a person go guiding for someone who can't hit paper little lone a game animal.
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Find someone to read my post and explain it to you, either you gotta get off the drugs or I gotta get on them. There isn't enough time in a day to explain things to you, let alone try to figure out what the hell youre talking about.
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08-07-2018, 07:29 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,338
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Don you will learn on here after so long if it can be done Or seen done Kurt can do it all never seen a guy gloat so much and same stories over and over.
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08-07-2018, 07:31 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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To funny, don't worry my friend, we will do just fine with the cartrages we have.
No need for the rest of us to keep changing our story.
Pretty sure the rest of the folks can read back on your statements as they don't really line up with one another.
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08-07-2018, 10:01 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,295
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In a previous 223 thread, I asked what I felt was a pretty ridiculous question.
Having sent thousand of gophers and dozens of coyotes to a better place using ballistic tip varmint bullets, I have a pretty good idea of how they perform for their intended use. I wanted to see what others thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Sky
I shoot a whack of 223 every year. This thread has got me thinking.
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Would my Ballistic Tips be a good choice for deer?
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These are the some peoples' thoughts on the matter.
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IMO a ballistic tip would be a very poor choice for deer.
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Quote:
It's a soft varmint bullet and I wouldn't. No more than I'd use a 55gr BT out of a .243
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Quote:
Bullet construction is Key! Deer ain't varmints. Sucks when " dad" buys bullets designed for prairiedogs for the kids to hunt deer with then get ****ed because they loose a deer.
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But, of course, some know better. Note: this bullet is from Nosler's varmint lineup.
Quote:
I’ve shot 55 gr 6mm ballistic tips lengthways through antelope.
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In this thread people are expressing the same concerns about poor bullet choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayaker
I don't think most CF .22's lack 'power' my concern is that a lot of ammo is loaded with frangible bullets and a small, soft bullet on a big bodied, pre rut condition 100kg+ buck is less than ideal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rem338win
A .243 with 55gr vmax's are just as bad.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
.....too many idiots out there imho that would be chasing deer with Winny white box or wutever other varmint round happens to be on sale at Walmart/Cambodian Tire that day.
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And yet, here we have videos posted where people are using varmint bullets on deer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer_Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
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Varmint bullets!!! What is with these people?
The engineers at Hornady, Nosler and others spend many, many hours developing bullets for their intended purposes. On their websites, they describe their varmint bullets using phrases like 'explosive fragmentation' and 'dramatic expansion'. To me, that doesn't really sound like a good way to describe a big game bullet.
Do some people think that they know more than engineers with years of experience?
Does their anecdotal experience trump hours and hours of research?
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