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  #121  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:06 PM
AxiALe AxiALe is offline
 
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make them use a rock and a stick like the old days and i wouldn't have a problem with,other wise its just poaching!!!!!!!
  #122  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:14 PM
300savage 300savage is offline
 
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Originally Posted by leo View Post
Perhaps the provincial gov. should look at having subsistence hunters(Whites,metis,treaty)apply for a yearly permit? They used to have an Alberta Health Care premium exemption form to fill out for low income families . Why not for subsistence hunters who fall into low income brackets? I do not beleive that some one who makes a decent income should be part of the problem, rather they should pay for tags and become part of the solution to sustaining our resources , irregardless of color or creed. Just a thought , no insult intended to anyone
Now that is a solution that actually makes sence. I for one would vote for that solution
  #123  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:24 PM
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300 savage for president i agree 100 %
  #124  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:28 PM
S.A.S S.A.S is offline
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Originally Posted by AxiALe View Post
make them use a rock and a stick like the old days and i wouldn't have a problem with,other wise its just poaching!!!!!!!
This is a legitimate response. A bow & Arrow would work as well, Make them use the tools of their ancestors.
  #125  
Old 06-28-2010, 08:15 PM
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make them use a rock and a stick like the old days and i wouldn't have a problem with,other wise its just poaching!!!!!!!
Idiots
  #126  
Old 06-28-2010, 08:21 PM
greylynx greylynx is offline
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Fact:

EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS, $8,000,000,000, is paid EVERY YEAR by taxpayers to support the aboriginals.

What does the taxpayer see for this EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS?

As for Metis. My neighbor has Metis relatives on his large Angus farm.

Do I have any deer left on my farm?

This "our culture" trap is killing the wildlife, and I don't see any change in the near future
  #127  
Old 06-28-2010, 08:48 PM
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blackpheasant blackpheasant is offline
 
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Originally Posted by greylynx View Post
Fact:

EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS, $8,000,000,000, is paid EVERY YEAR by taxpayers to support the aboriginals.

What does the taxpayer see for this EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS?

As for Metis. My neighbor has Metis relatives on his large Angus farm.

Do I have any deer left on my farm?

This "our culture" trap is killing the wildlife, and I don't see any change in the near future
The taxpayer see's nothing because the Dept. of Indian Affairs cannot be auditted, I believe it is the only Gov. Dept. that can't be auditted - this is because taxpayers would be outraged if they new about the waste and corruption within this Dept.
  #128  
Old 06-28-2010, 08:55 PM
flint flint is offline
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Originally Posted by AxeMan View Post
Flint, actually you are wrong about the rights thing. The HUNTING, FISHING AND TRAPPING HERITAGE ACT Chapter H-15.5 gives me that RIGHT.

It is in the hunting regulations as well.

HUNTING, FISHING AND TRAPPING
HERITAGE ACT
Chapter H-15.5
(Assented to May 15, 2008)
Preamble
WHEREAS hunting, fishing and trapping have played
important roles in shaping Alberta’s social, cultural and
economic heritage;
WHEREAS hunters, anglers and trappers have made
important contributions to the understanding, conservation,
restoration and management of Alberta’s fish and wildlife
resources; and
WHEREAS the best traditions of hunting, fishing and
trapping should be valued by future generations:
THEREFORE HER MAJESTY, by and with the advice and
consent of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta, enacts as
follows:
Right to hunt and fish
1(1) A person has a right to hunt, fish and trap in accordance
with the law.
(2) The reference to the law in subsection (1) includes the
Wildlife Act, the Fisheries Act (Canada), the Migratory
Birds Convention Act, 1994 (Canada) and the
regulations made under those Acts.
Non-derogation of aboriginal rights
2 Nothing in this Act derogates from any aboriginal right to
hunt, fish or trap.
This is not a natural right, and if it is, why can't you utilize it anytime of the year? You are restricted by law to hunt for the quanity of animals, times and places. Aboriginal rights don't restrict them to the noted above and rightly so. Accept the privilage to hunt and fish and be happy with that.
  #129  
Old 06-28-2010, 09:24 PM
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Flint, I am not going to argue with you. You said hunting is not our "right", it is a privilege. I simply pointed out some legislation that we fought hard for to say it is our "right". You can twist things and make up ideas in your head but it is our "right" and the Alberta Government put forth this act to make it the law. Simple as that. A natural right is something you made up in your head. The First Nations and Metis also have their own pieces of legislation.
  #130  
Old 06-28-2010, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AxeMan View Post
Flint, I am not going to argue with you. You said hunting is not our "right", it is a privilege. I simply pointed out some legislation that we fought hard for to say it is our "right". You can twist things and make up ideas in your head but it is our "right" and the Alberta Government put forth this act to make it the law. Simple as that. A natural right is something you made up in your head. The First Nations and Metis also have their own pieces of legislation.
Sounds like a right to me....not sure what a natural right is but this sounds like a legal right to me too.............I'm pretty sure things in the constitution would be legal rights as well but I could be wrong.

Quote:
Right to hunt and fish
1(1) A person has a right to hunt, fish and trap in accordance
with the law
I'm with Axe...we fought hard to get this right! It's definitely not a privilage...it's a right.
  #131  
Old 06-28-2010, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by flint View Post
This is not a natural right, and if it is, why can't you utilize it anytime of the year? You are restricted by law to hunt for the quanity of animals, times and places. Aboriginal rights don't restrict them to the noted above and rightly so. Accept the privilage to hunt and fish and be happy with that.

We have rules in place on when we can harvest animals for a few reasons and if you do not understand what they are you my friend need to do some research. As for the rights for Aboriginal's being allowed to harvest what ever when ever does not make it right.
  #132  
Old 06-28-2010, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by flint View Post
There are hundreds of laws enacted in Canada where it favours one and not others. Let's start with Martin's Annual Criminal Code of Canada. Why is there a more severe punishment to murdering a Peace Officer then it is to murder a commoner? Is a Peace Officer's life more valuable than your's or mine? Why can't I use a crossbow for hunting during the archery season, but the other guy can because of an injury. He can shoot from his vehicle because he can't walk. I don't have to wear a seat belt because I'm pregnant. The list go's on and on. I know that these are exceptions, but are they equal to others? There are no laws in any country that treats every person equally. None! Furthermore, if every person was treated equally by law it dosen't necessary mean that it will be practiced. In otherwords, laws are broken. Laws are not racist, only some favor special groups or minorities. Regardless, at the end of the day the Aboriginals will receive the shorter end of the stick because some great white hunter thinks that hunting is his right and not our natives.
" I don't have to wear a seat belt because I'm pregnant." That's a bad idea!!!! You can wear a seat belt when you are pregnant and should, why would you want a pregnant women to be killed in a car crash????? You need to wear the seat belt lower to make sure you don't hurt the baby but really!!??
  #133  
Old 06-29-2010, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
This is not a natural right, and if it is, why can't you utilize it anytime of the year? You are restricted by law to hunt for the quanity of animals, times and places. Aboriginal rights don't restrict them to the noted above and rightly so. Accept the privilage to hunt and fish and be happy with that.
With this statement Flint ,you have described what is perceived to be the problem with the current set up. To the aboriginals it is a right , to everyone else it is a priveledge. And that priveledge is very fickle in many parts of North America (anti hunting sentiment) .Our priveledges can be stripped away by a large contingent of anti hunting sentiment, but not theirs.
  #134  
Old 06-29-2010, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greylynx View Post
Fact:

EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS, $8,000,000,000, is paid EVERY YEAR by taxpayers to support the aboriginals.

What does the taxpayer see for this EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS?

As for Metis. My neighbor has Metis relatives on his large Angus farm.

Do I have any deer left on my farm?

This "our culture" trap is killing the wildlife, and I don't see any change in the near future

Well don't feel bad, the everyday Aboriginal doesn't see much of that money either. By the time it filters down through all the bureaucracy there isn't much left.

That really doesn't have anything to do with the Metis. Being First Nations and Metis is not the same, we don't get the same rights and privileges that First Nations do.

I thought this thread was about Metis harvesting rights........
  #135  
Old 06-29-2010, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by leo View Post
With this statement Flint ,you have described what is perceived to be the problem with the current set up. To the aboriginals it is a right , to everyone else it is a priveledge. And that priveledge is very fickle in many parts of North America (anti hunting sentiment) .Our priveledges can be stripped away by a large contingent of anti hunting sentiment, but not theirs.
What I should have added to this was that Priveledges come with a measure or responsabilities in order to maintain them . Rights have no such burden placed upon them...I'm not Racist or in judgement of any aboriginals ,I'm just explaining what the differences are that I see.
  #136  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 300savage View Post
Now that is a solution that actually makes sence. I for one would vote for that solution
X2

Being a import Albertan I find it pretty interesting the Metis and First Nations deals.

I remember growing up near the puget sound in Washington and going out with my father to was the Indians catching salmon and then cooking them. They shared with the spectators.

I'm really surprised that the people allowed to hunt all year wouldn't want things a little more "regulated" to preserve the population for everyone. My impression is it's more of an issue that they get to hunt what they want then making sure there are animals to hunt tomorrow?
  #137  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:32 AM
Rafter Rafter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
I totally agree but a lot of the new Metis of convenience don't see it that way. I'm all for the rights of subsistence hunting entrenched in our constitution......sadly, some of the new Metis of convenience see it as a licence to poach. And sadly, depending on this court decision, that licence to poach may become the law of the land. It seems many of the new Metis of convenience cowardly shroud themselves in the rights that some still rely on the feed their families. Therein lies the rub.
I do not agree to the term cowardly. The Metis are fighting the Alberta Government out in the open. They knowingly risked equipment siezures, fines and imprisonment, and employment opportunities.

I wonder how many people on this forum, including yourself, would put everything on the line to fight for what you believe in, against an oppressive Provincial Government run by a few politicians with their own personal agendas at heart.

The Metis are a proud part of the Canadian history.

One of the leaders of the Alberta Government is a person who wants to extinguish all Aboriginal rights not only in Alberta but in this country. He was nurtured in his homeland to the South and brings it up here into Canada. The taxpayers of Canada are duped into paying for his egotistical campaign.
  #138  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:39 AM
Rafter Rafter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rhuntley12 View Post
X2

Being a import Albertan I find it pretty interesting the Metis and First Nations deals.

I remember growing up near the puget sound in Washington and going out with my father to was the Indians catching salmon and then cooking them. They shared with the spectators.

I'm really surprised that the people allowed to hunt all year wouldn't want things a little more "regulated" to preserve the population for everyone. My impression is it's more of an issue that they get to hunt what they want then making sure there are animals to hunt tomorrow?

You are sadly misinformed! What proof do you have to support the fallacy that the Metis do not support regulated hunting. I do not think you could produce any evidence to subtantiate your claim. Read their Harvesting Policy on their website if you want proof to negate the misinformation you put forth. Talk is cheap, wheres the proof????
  #139  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:49 AM
Rafter Rafter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
Sounds like a right to me....not sure what a natural right is but this sounds like a legal right to me too.............I'm pretty sure things in the constitution would be legal rights as well but I could be wrong.



I'm with Axe...we fought hard to get this right! It's definitely not a privilage...it's a right.

I guess we will find out soon enough if the Metis have a legal right to harvest for subsistance. I guess that would answer the question of whether it is legal for them or not.

Know this, if the Metis fail at the Provincial level, the tax payers of this country will be paying for the litigation to proceed through higher levels of the Justice system. Work hard my friend and pay lots of taxes to help with this silliness.

The conclusion is foregone, the highest law in the land states they have the right to harvest for food and other purposes. The Metis lawyers have won at the highest levels of the court system and are now winning at the lower court level.
  #140  
Old 06-29-2010, 08:03 AM
flint flint is offline
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I do not agree to the term cowardly. The Metis are fighting the Alberta Government out in the open. They knowingly risked equipment siezures, fines and imprisonment, and employment opportunities.

I wonder how many people on this forum, including yourself, would put everything on the line to fight for what you believe in, against an oppressive Provincial Government run by a few politicians with their own personal agendas at heart.

The Metis are a proud part of the Canadian history.

One of the leaders of the Alberta Government is a person who wants to extinguish all Aboriginal rights not only in Alberta but in this country. He was nurtured in his homeland to the South and brings it up here into Canada. The taxpayers of Canada are duped into paying for his egotistical campaign.
Yes, and Mr. Ted Morton introduced paid hunting in Southern Alberta. Sound simular to the good ole U.S. of wide America! Well at least he is not the Minister of SRD.....well maybe that is not a good thing after all, he has a bigger roll to play now. The Metis are a proud part of this Country and I wish that people would know the history of this the First Nations, Metis and the New Country Born.
  #141  
Old 06-29-2010, 08:17 AM
ARGO GUY ARGO GUY is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
I guess we will find out soon enough if the Metis have a legal right to harvest for subsistance. I guess that would answer the question of whether it is legal for them or not.

Know this, if the Metis fail at the Provincial level, the tax payers of this country will be paying for the litigation to proceed through higher levels of the Justice system. Work hard my friend and pay lots of taxes to help with this silliness. The conclusion is foregone, the highest law in the land states they have the right to harvest for food and other purposes. The Metis lawyers have won at the highest levels of the court system and are now winning at the lower court level.
This is the kind of stupid statement that makes people mad. Why should my hard earned taxes be spent fighting a BS court case.How any of you can justify that you should be allowed to kill anything at anytime and anywere is crap.You can yap about the past all you want as CANADIANS WE SHOULD ALL BE HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS.
  #142  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
I guess we will find out soon enough if the Metis have a legal right to harvest for subsistance. I guess that would answer the question of whether it is legal for them or not.

Know this, if the Metis fail at the Provincial level, the tax payers of this country will be paying for the litigation to proceed through higher levels of the Justice system. Work hard my friend and pay lots of taxes to help with this silliness.

The conclusion is foregone, the highest law in the land states they have the right to harvest for food and other purposes. The Metis lawyers have won at the highest levels of the court system and are now winning at the lower court level.
Metis already have the right to harvest for subsistence...Powley assures that. This court case isn't about their right to subsistence hunting, it's about where they can extend that right. I hope it does go to the supreme court and Powley is upheld and we can end this once and for all.
  #143  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:15 AM
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I do not agree to the term cowardly. The Metis are fighting the Alberta Government out in the open. They knowingly risked equipment siezures, fines and imprisonment, and employment opportunities.

.
I didn't say the Metis were cowardly...I said the Metis of convenience were cowardly...you know, the ones that never even had a Metis card nor do they know anything of the Metis traditions yet as soon as they found out out they could trophy hunt under the guise of subsistence, they got their card. Those are the cowards. Those are the ones that deserve no respect from the non-Metis nor the Metis themselves. They are abusing a heritage they have no ties to to circumvent the laws of the land. They know nothing of subsistence hunting......They know nothing nor do they care about the proud tradition of the Metis people.
  #144  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:32 AM
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flint, I'm really having a hard time figuring you out. It sounds like you really believe what you say. I wonder if you remember that chief who said on national radio that he would shoot the last squirrel on earth because it was his right.
  #145  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:34 AM
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They call me "whitey"

At birth, I was pink.

When Im cold, I turn blue.

When I fly, I turn green.

When I eat spicy food, I turn red.

When Im in the sun, I turn brown.

When I bump my knee, it turns red, then purple, then brown, then yellow.

So why do they call me "whitey".......................

  #146  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:40 AM
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So why do they call me "whitey".......................

Cause of your hair. hehehe
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  #147  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:59 AM
rhuntley12 rhuntley12 is offline
 
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You are sadly misinformed! What proof do you have to support the fallacy that the Metis do not support regulated hunting. I do not think you could produce any evidence to subtantiate your claim. Read their Harvesting Policy on their website if you want proof to negate the misinformation you put forth. Talk is cheap, wheres the proof????
The fact they don't force themselves to follow the regulations that everyone else follows?

That they stage hunts just to protest?

That they allow their members to hunt during sensitive times on the animals?
  #148  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by AxiALe View Post
make them use a rock and a stick like the old days and i wouldn't have a problem with,other wise its just poaching!!!!!!!
Theres that word again if someone has the right to hunt how is it poaching !!
  #149  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Nationwide View Post
if someone has the right to hunt how is it poaching !!
Rights come with restrictions so if you conduct activities outside of those conditions, you would be poaching.
  #150  
Old 06-29-2010, 11:21 AM
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Rights come with restrictions so if you conduct activities outside of those conditions, you would be poaching.
And there's the rub... the restrictions... Some see them as reasonable, some see them as contravening their "rights". Hunting season, bag limits, registering firearms, what is a restricted or prohibited weapon... Sort of depends what side of the fence you are on as to what is a reasonable restriction.

Everyone thinks they have a "right" to everything they personally hold dear or want. If it isn't in the constitution, a treaty, or a legal precedent it isn't your right. Certainly fight to make it one if you wish, but there are no natural rights.
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