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  #181  
Old 06-29-2010, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
The Metis rights to hunt are not without restriction and conditions.
If you haven't noticed everyone else’s that “hunt's ” and That buys a hunting license are not without restriction's are you saying poaching dosen’t happen during the reg hunting season !!!
  #182  
Old 06-29-2010, 05:06 PM
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If you haven't noticed everyone else’s that “hunt's ” and That buys a hunting license are not without restriction's are you saying poaching dosen’t happen during the reg hunting season !!!
Not saying that all...of course people of all races poach. The colour of skin makes it no less despicable though. Poaching is poaching.
  #183  
Old 06-29-2010, 06:18 PM
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Not saying that all...of course people of all races poach. The colour of skin makes it no less despicable though. Poaching is poaching.
Ok thanks for the reply so would it be safe to say that if one has the right to hunt it dosent make them a poacher .
  #184  
Old 06-29-2010, 06:29 PM
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Ok thanks for the reply so would it be safe to say that if one has the right to hunt it dosent make them a poacher .
A safer statement would be that just because someone has the right to hunt it doesn't make them a poacher but there are undoubtedly people of all races with the right to hunt that are also poachers. Every licenced Alberta hunter has the right to hunt but it seems every year some run astray of the law. I'm sure the same can be said of other groups that have the right to hunt.
  #185  
Old 06-29-2010, 06:36 PM
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Just my opinion, BUT if you can own a rifle, a truck, hunting gear, the gas and the time off work, oh ya house and job and computer to bee-itch how unfair you get treated for having aboriginal decent.................................I think your a liar and it's not subsistence hunting anymore.

So hold your 190 sheep head high, and know that the law allowed you to do things that I would be thrown in jail for! Just don't forget to tell the real story, not the wish I did it this way story.

And for those who are metis and choose to hunt by the same rules that govern me, I take my hat off to you,THANK YOU for being Real, and seeing the big picture. I have also seen you kill some great trophies, the White way. ( you know who you are)
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  #186  
Old 06-29-2010, 06:52 PM
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That's a good question"What are the requirements for a Metis card?" As has been stated aren't they really third nations?
  #187  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:10 PM
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When this mess first began in Alberta they weren't much. I'm not sure you even had to have 1/16 First Nations background. I know the number of card-carrying Metis in the province nearly doubled when the hunting was thrown wide open. I'm sure they were just all rediscovering their heritage though. Sorry, I have all the respect in the world with those with ties to their heritage but have a hard time with those jumping on a gravy train of unregulated hunting because it's their "right" to kill animals outside of normal seasons.
  #188  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:10 PM
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That's a good question"What are the requirements for a Metis card?" As has been stated aren't they really third nations?
They are a mix between Indian and French. They are just like any other Indian just they are a bit mixed, Like Blacks with a White parent. I do not know why people try and make such a distinction between Metis and Indians, One is pure blooded one is diluted a bit.
  #189  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:27 PM
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Registry and Membership with the Metis Nation of Alberta is based upon a definition of Metis, which was passed at the Annual General Assembly held in Edmonton in August 2003.

“Métis means a person who self-identifies as a Métis, is distinct from other aboriginal peoples, is of historic Métis Nation ancestry, and is accepted by the Métis Nation.”

Historical Proof: refers to evidence of an ancestor who received a land grant or a scrip grant under the Manitoba Act or the Dominion Lands Act, or who was recognized as a Métis in other government, church or community records.

Historic Métis Nation: refers to the Aboriginal people then known as Métis or Half-breeds who resided in the Historic Métis Nation Homeland.

Historic Métis Nation Homeland: is the area of land in west central North America used and occupied as the traditional territory of the Métis.

Métis Nation: means the Aboriginal people descended from the Historic Métis Nation, which now comprised of all Métis Nation peoples and is one of the “aboriginal peoples of Canada” as defined in s.35 of the Constitution Act 1982.

Distinct from other Aboriginal peoples means distinct for cultural and nationhood purposes.

The Métis are one of three distinct Aboriginal peoples of Canada, recognized under section 35 in the 1982 Constitution. Fiercely independent, the Métis were instrumental in the development of western Canada.

The Métis people were born from the marriages of Cree, Ojibwa and Salteaux women, and the French and Scottish fur traders, beginning in the mid-1600s. Scandinavian, Irish and English stock was added to the mix as western Canada was explored.

The word Métis comes from the Latin "miscere", to mix, and was used originally to describe the children of native women and French men. Other terms for these children were Country-born, Black Scots, and Half-breeds.

The Métis quickly became intermediaries between European and Indian cultures, working as guides, interpreters, and provisionary to the new forts and new trading companies. Their villages sprang up from the Great Lakes to the Mackenzie Delta. The Métis Homeland encompasses parts of present-day Ontario, British Columbia, the Northwest Territories, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba.

Métis culture was a fusion of French, English and Indian influences that took root and flourished until the late 1800s. The Métis developed a unique language called Michif. Their fiddlers combined jugs and reels into their music. Métis attire included woven sashes, embroidered gun sheaths, deer hide caps, quilled and beaded pipe bags. The Métis developed technologies such as the Red River Cart. Expert hunters, they made formidable soldiers.

They also developed a unique political and legal culture, with strong democratic traditions. The Métis had elected buffalo councils to organize buffalo hunts. By 1816, the Métis had challenged the Hudson Bay Company’s monopoly in the fur trade, and began to develop a national consciousness.

The Métis formed the majority of the population at the Red River Colony. Louis Riel’s provisional government negotiated the entry of Manitoba into Canadian confederation in 1870. But federal promises of land in the Manitoba Act were not fulfilled. After ten years of delay, the government introduced the now-notorious scrip system. These certificates for land or money replaced direct land grants. Speculators who followed the Scrip Commissions snapped up scrip. Aware that the Métis were defrauded of their land, the government ignored the abuse and facilitated the business of the speculators.

The Royal Proclamation of 1763 made the crown responsible for the well being of aboriginal peoples and forbid the dismembering of their lands. But the federal government refused to acknowledge its responsibilities for the Métis, and their political rights as a sovereign people were not recognized.

Impoverished and frustrated, the Métis appealed to Louis Riel once again and in 1885 he led a resistance in North-western Saskatchewan, near the Métis settlements of Duck Lake and Batoche. Despite support from farmers, Blackfoot and Cree, the Canadian army crushed the resistance. Riel and his provisional government were arrested and tried, and Riel was executed in Regina on November 16, 1885.

By the 1930s, associations to lobby for a land base were formed in Saskatchewan and Alberta. In 1936, Alberta government granted 1,280,000 acres of land for Métis Settlements, a precedent that has allowed the contemporary Métis of Alberta to obtain limited control of housing, health, child welfare and legal institutions.

The 1960s saw the emergence of renewed political organizations. During the constitutional talks of 1982 and enshrined in the Constitution Act, 1982 the Métis were recognized as one of the three aboriginal peoples of Canada.

In 1992, Louis Riel was recognized as one of the founders of Confederation by the same government that had called him a demented rebel and hanged him.
  #190  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:27 PM
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So anyone with a "white" parent and a native parent is Metis?(excuse my ignorance)the number of Metis could be substantial then eh?
  #191  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:39 PM
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So anyone with a "white" parent and a native parent is Metis?(excuse my ignorance)the number of Metis could be substantial then eh?
It goes far beyond parents to qualify for a card in Alberta. The First Nations connection can be several generations removed.
  #192  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:49 PM
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So anyone with a "white" parent and a native parent is Metis?(excuse my ignorance)the number of Metis could be substantial then eh?
No, your family has to be directly linked to having Metis script, not just anyone with Native blood. I believe that after the IMHA that there was actually a decline in the numbers of Metis in Alberta as one of the requirements the Government outlined in the original agreement was that the Metis Nation of Alberta had to set forth a more stringent process of affirming peoples membership, subsiquently everyone that previously held a Metis card was forced to re-apply to prove there was no doubt about thier lineage.


Application/Update Requirements MNA Membership

To update/apply for a membership with the MNA you must meet the requirements of the definition of Metis and you will need to bring the following documents into your regional office:

A completed Genealogy family tree dating back to the mid 1800’s
Either a long form birth certificate which includes your parent’s names, OR a baptismal certificate along with a wallet sized birth certificate.
Picture ID (e.g.. driver's license, passport, firearms license) for swearing a Statutory Declaration
Provide proof you are a current resident of Alberta for 90 consecutive days.
Reminder to New and Existing Membership Applicants

It is your responsibility to keep your membership address and telephone contact information current.

If you have any questions about membership, please contact our head office at (780) 455-2200 or by e-mail at registry@metis.org.

New MNA Membership Cards

The Métis Nation of Alberta is issuing new membership cards to replace the existing plastic laminated ‘red and white’ cards. New membership cards will NOT be automatically issued to holders of the current ‘red and white’ card. To receive a new card, members must contact the regional or provincial registry offices to ensure that all necessary documentation is on file to prove the card holder meets the criteria for membership.

The new membership cards contain security features that effectively remove the possibility of illegal duplication. Bar codes on the cards link to a state of the art information database containing personal and genealogical information that guarantee the holder of the card is Metis and is eligible for Aboriginal rights under section 35 of the Constitution Act (1982).
  #193  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:50 PM
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Just my opinion, BUT if you can own a rifle, a truck, hunting gear, the gas and the time off work, oh ya house and job and computer to bee-itch how unfair you get treated for having aboriginal decent.................................I think your a liar and it's not subsistence hunting anymore.
Bang on Potty!!!!
Chances are that when we pack u*p our gear to go hunting, it's for sport or trophies. You like the thrill of the hunt, the sport of taking down a majestic animal, the glory of nabbing the biggest buck. You probably don't just leave the animal there after you kill it, you eat the meat and maybe even use the pelts. But even so, your primary reason for hunting is the sport of it. If you don't bag a deer in your afternoon out, you leave disappointed and a bit frustrated, but you'll be able to rustle up some grub from your refrigerator when you get home. For some subsistence hunters, that's not always the case. Subsistence hunters hunt strictly to provide food for themselves and their families. Simply put, it's hunting for survival, RIGHT? Though it used to be a way of life for most, the need for subsistence hunting is dwindling. Grocery stores are on every corner for many of our well educated Metis city dwellers and for those who live in the rural areas I'm sure you'll find one within the hour. I don't think "subsistence hunting" is a right that should be given to all so-called Metis. If you exist in remote areas of the country where work, money, stores and other necessities of life are hard to come by, and you chose to hunt out of season, I would call you a subsistence hunter. But as Pottymouth said, if you own a house, truck, computer, (to bitch on) go to a good paying job everyday, I would call you a poacher or liar if you exercise the rights of a subsistence hunter. Metis card or no Metis card the onus lies on the word 'SUBSISTENCE'. If you don't know what it means, look it up.
  #194  
Old 06-29-2010, 08:05 PM
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Bang on Potty!!!!
Chances are that when we pack u*p our gear to go hunting, it's for sport or trophies. You like the thrill of the hunt, the sport of taking down a majestic animal, the glory of nabbing the biggest buck. You probably don't just leave the animal there after you kill it, you eat the meat and maybe even use the pelts. But even so, your primary reason for hunting is the sport of it. If you don't bag a deer in your afternoon out, you leave disappointed and a bit frustrated, but you'll be able to rustle up some grub from your refrigerator when you get home. For some subsistence hunters, that's not always the case. Subsistence hunters hunt strictly to provide food for themselves and their families. Simply put, it's hunting for survival, RIGHT? Though it used to be a way of life for most, the need for subsistence hunting is dwindling. Grocery stores are on every corner for many of our well educated Metis city dwellers and for those who live in the rural areas I'm sure you'll find one within the hour. I don't think "subsistence hunting" is a right that should be given to all so-called Metis. If you exist in remote areas of the country where work, money, stores and other necessities of life are hard to come by, and you chose to hunt out of season, I would call you a subsistence hunter. But as Pottymouth said, if you own a house, truck, computer, (to bitch on) go to a good paying job everyday, I would call you a poacher or liar if you exercise the rights of a subsistence hunter. Metis card or no Metis card the onus lies on the word 'SUBSISTENCE'. If you don't know what it means, look it up.
Personally, what the Metis Nation of Alberta should have fought for was Hunting Rights "not" Subsistence Hunting.
  #195  
Old 06-29-2010, 08:27 PM
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I didn't say the Metis were cowardly...I said the Metis of convenience were cowardly...you know, the ones that never even had a Metis card nor do they know anything of the Metis traditions yet as soon as they found out out they could trophy hunt under the guise of subsistence, they got their card. Those are the cowards. Those are the ones that deserve no respect from the non-Metis nor the Metis themselves. They are abusing a heritage they have no ties to to circumvent the laws of the land. They know nothing of subsistence hunting......They know nothing nor do they care about the proud tradition of the Metis people.
one of the guys in the court case in medicine hat is exactly of that description!!!
  #196  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:17 PM
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I usually get pretty torn on these discussions...

I have seen the good and bad, but far more good in my experience.

I don't know a whole lot about Metis rights and such,..but do know a number of Metis,...a few of which are hunters...all good upstanding people who a pleasure to hunt with.

Most of my experience with native people has been with Inuit, Yupik, Chipewyan, Slavey...Dogrib...

I have rarely seen waste or disrespect for the environment, game or anything else.

my brother in law is Chipewyan and I find him to be the same.


Who exactly is it we are talking about....is it a Metis Treaty?

I honestly know very little about it,...
  #197  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:31 PM
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Arn..
Any self proclaimed Metis that supposedly has some proof to back up their claims (This is verified by the Metis council) is now able to hunt with out license, at any time of the year around existing Metis settlements. Since this was not enough for the Metis powers that be, they are now in front of the courts asking to have the ability to hunt all across this province.

BUT this is just the thin edge of the wedge. Next up they will be demanding the same treatment that the Indians presently have.
What they have done in my eyes is take a great piece of Canadiana and turned it into the start of a GIMMY GIMMY GIMMY political force.

A crying shame, all that pride in what they accomplished (And rightfully so) and now it's thrown out the window. Someone needs to have their head examined.

Jamie
  #198  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:41 PM
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Arn..
Any self proclaimed Metis that supposedly has some proof to back up their claims (This is verified by the Metis council) is now able to hunt with out license, at any time of the year around existing Metis settlements. Since this was not enough for the Metis powers that be, they are now in front of the courts asking to have the ability to hunt all across this province.

BUT this is just the thin edge of the wedge. Next up they will be demanding the same treatment that the Indians presently have.
What they have done in my eyes is take a great piece of Canadiana and turned it into the start of a GIMMY GIMMY GIMMY political force.

A crying shame, all that pride in what they accomplished (And rightfully so) and now it's thrown out the window. Someone needs to have their head examined.

Jamie
This is what I don't understand...

Is there a difference in Metis rights or whatever and Indians?

Who exactly are you referring to when you say Indians?

thanks
  #199  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:50 PM
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This is what I don't understand...

Is there a difference in Metis rights or whatever and Indians?

Who exactly are you referring to when you say Indians?

thanks
Do a Google search on the Powley decision and you should find all you need to know.
  #200  
Old 06-29-2010, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
Arn..
Any self proclaimed Metis that supposedly has some proof to back up their claims (This is verified by the Metis council) is now able to hunt with out license, at any time of the year around existing Metis settlements.

Jamie
I did'nt know that,maybe I should get my Metis Licence

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  #201  
Old 06-30-2010, 02:12 AM
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[QUOTE=Jamie;620345]
Any self proclaimed Metis that supposedly has some proof to back up their claims (This is verified by the Metis council) is now able to hunt with out license, at any time of the year around existing Metis settlements. Since this was not enough for the Metis powers that be, they are now in front of the courts asking to have the ability to hunt all across this province.

Sorry Jamie but its not supposed proof! Each applicant is verified by genealogists. For what purpose would it serve the Metis Nation of Alberta to give just anyone membership?
  #202  
Old 06-30-2010, 05:20 AM
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I did'nt know that,maybe I should get my Metis Licence

Maybe you should!!

Keep in mind, there were no Metis in Canada prior to European colonization.
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  #203  
Old 06-30-2010, 05:37 AM
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When this mess first began in Alberta they weren't much. I'm not sure you even had to have 1/16 First Nations background. I know the number of card-carrying Metis in the province nearly doubled when the hunting was thrown wide open. I'm sure they were just all rediscovering their heritage though. Sorry, I have all the respect in the world with those with ties to their heritage but have a hard time with those jumping on a gravy train of unregulated hunting because it's their "right" to kill animals outside of normal seasons.
What about the "gravy train" you and your buddy rode when the government allowed 3 or 4 mule deer doe tag's in WMU 108. You and buddy slaughtered 7 or 8 doe's just to make a cheap hunt for T.V.( I believe that you titled the show "Skinhead Masacare") Just because the government throws us a bone we don't have to knaw at it until it is almost gone. Now the buck population is down because of over hunting. Many of those doe's killed were possibly pregnant with buck fawn's. To consume 4 doe's in less than one year is alot of venison. You took more than your daily bread for that show. Don't talk about riding the "gravey train" and that it is your "right" .Of course that is your right because it fulfilled your want; however, for other people it is not alright.
  #204  
Old 06-30-2010, 05:49 AM
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  #205  
Old 06-30-2010, 07:38 AM
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They are a mix between Indian and French. They are just like any other Indian just they are a bit mixed, Like Blacks with a White parent. I do not know why people try and make such a distinction between Metis and Indians, One is pure blooded one is diluted a bit.

Its much more than simply being part French and Native. The Metis is a nation with our own language, culture, traditions and in the past, our own government. The Metis people are a distinct people.

As for membership, it has become more stringent. Many people that had membership in the past (prior to Powley) lost their memberships because they didn't meet the requirements. There definitely has been an influx of Metis (of convenience) but if they met the requirements they are able to get a membership. A family member is the genealogist for the MNA and she is the one that did our family's genealogy years ago, long before Powley. Even so, each member of our family had to go through the application process, there were no special favors because we were related to her.

I'm not going to argue that there aren't Metis that are abusing this right because there is but it isn't on the scale that is being posted here. Just as any group there will always be those that take advantage of something but the vast majority of Metis people are hunting within the guide lines of this agreement and not abusing it. People posting here are making it seem as though most Metis are out trophy hunting which isn't the case and its misleading because I can bet my bottom dollar that those posting about the trophy hunters never witnessed this themselves, its a whole lot of he said she said going on to validate their opposition to this agreement. To say all Metis lost our pride because of this agreement is over stating, the majority of us have not lost anything.

I encourage anyone that has issues with the Metis people to attend any number of functions held around Alberta at different times of the year and sit down and talk with people. I'm sure you'll get a better light of what it means to be Metis for many of us. Too many people are reading biased opinions on boards such as this and taking it as truth when in fact the majority it purely speculation and biased opinions. There is a festival in Batoche Saskatchewan held every year in July (18th-25th, 2010). If people really want to understand what the Metis are about, go check it out.
  #206  
Old 06-30-2010, 07:56 AM
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Its much more than simply being part French and Native. The Metis is a nation with our own language, culture, traditions and in the past, our own government. The Metis people are a distinct people.

As for membership, it has become more stringent. Many people that had membership in the past (prior to Powley) lost their memberships because they didn't meet the requirements. There definitely has been an influx of Metis (of convenience) but if they met the requirements they are able to get a membership. A family member is the genealogist for the MNA and she is the one that did our family's genealogy years ago, long before Powley. Even so, each member of our family had to go through the application process, there were no special favors because we were related to her.

I'm not going to argue that there aren't Metis that are abusing this right because there is but it isn't on the scale that is being posted here. Just as any group there will always be those that take advantage of something but the vast majority of Metis people are hunting within the guide lines of this agreement and not abusing it. People posting here are making it seem as though most Metis are out trophy hunting which isn't the case and its misleading because I can bet my bottom dollar that those posting about the trophy hunters never witnessed this themselves, its a whole lot of he said she said going on to validate their opposition to this agreement. To say all Metis lost our pride because of this agreement is over stating, the majority of us have not lost anything.

I encourage anyone that has issues with the Metis people to attend any number of functions held around Alberta at different times of the year and sit down and talk with people. I'm sure you'll get a better light of what it means to be Metis for many of us. Too many people are reading biased opinions on boards such as this and taking it as truth when in fact the majority it purely speculation and biased opinions. There is a festival in Batoche Saskatchewan held every year in July (18th-25th, 2010). If people really want to understand what the Metis are about, go check it out.
I have to agree that the majority of Metis people are proud and honest folk. My question is , what do the Metis who exercise this right to hunt year round contribute to the sustainability of wild life and the environment(and i don't mean ideologically). Do they make a modest financial contribution, or donate their time or resources to the tax payers of Alberta? I'm not asking as a smart ass, I don't know so could you help me by answering
  #207  
Old 06-30-2010, 08:47 AM
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What about the "gravy train" you and your buddy rode when the government allowed 3 or 4 mule deer doe tag's in WMU 108. You and buddy slaughtered 7 or 8 doe's just to make a cheap hunt for T.V.( I believe that you titled the show "Skinhead Masacare") Just because the government throws us a bone we don't have to knaw at it until it is almost gone. Now the buck population is down because of over hunting. Many of those doe's killed were possibly pregnant with buck fawn's. To consume 4 doe's in less than one year is alot of venison. You took more than your daily bread for that show. Don't talk about riding the "gravey train" and that it is your "right" .Of course that is your right because it fulfilled your want; however, for other people it is not alright.
You really live by the credo "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story" don't you.

Go troll on someone else's posts Gary.....I've got no interest in getting in a debate with you or your family. It seems inventing lies about someone's personal life is the Vallmarie first line of attack(Ty is exempt from this statement)....I'm not playing.

  #208  
Old 06-30-2010, 08:48 AM
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I'm not saying that I'm right or not, but I think even the harshest critics would have difficulty denying an animal to low income families for consumption. .
I guess I'm one of the harshest critics then... I don't support subsistence hunting. There are a lot of other things that could be done to remedy the situation.
  #209  
Old 06-30-2010, 08:52 AM
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I guess I'm one of the harshest critics then... I don't support subsistence hunting. There are a lot of other things that could be done to remedy the situation.
Ok, I respect your opinion but elaborate a bit more
  #210  
Old 06-30-2010, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Sporty View Post
Its much more than simply being part French and Native. The Metis is a nation with our own language, culture, traditions and in the past, our own government. The Metis people are a distinct people.

As for membership, it has become more stringent. Many people that had membership in the past (prior to Powley) lost their memberships because they didn't meet the requirements. There definitely has been an influx of Metis (of convenience) but if they met the requirements they are able to get a membership. A family member is the genealogist for the MNA and she is the one that did our family's genealogy years ago, long before Powley. Even so, each member of our family had to go through the application process, there were no special favors because we were related to her.

I'm not going to argue that there aren't Metis that are abusing this right because there is but it isn't on the scale that is being posted here. Just as any group there will always be those that take advantage of something but the vast majority of Metis people are hunting within the guide lines of this agreement and not abusing it. People posting here are making it seem as though most Metis are out trophy hunting which isn't the case and its misleading because I can bet my bottom dollar that those posting about the trophy hunters never witnessed this themselves, its a whole lot of he said she said going on to validate their opposition to this agreement. To say all Metis lost our pride because of this agreement is over stating, the majority of us have not lost anything.

I encourage anyone that has issues with the Metis people to attend any number of functions held around Alberta at different times of the year and sit down and talk with people. I'm sure you'll get a better light of what it means to be Metis for many of us. Too many people are reading biased opinions on boards such as this and taking it as truth when in fact the majority it purely speculation and biased opinions. There is a festival in Batoche Saskatchewan held every year in July (18th-25th, 2010). If people really want to understand what the Metis are about, go check it out.
Well said Sporty and I agree that trophy hunting isn't rampant throughout the Metis community but it has to be a concern. I don't think it can just be swept under the rug either. And yes, I have seen the results. You make some great points about the Metis and what it means to be Metis and it's unfortunate that an unscupulous faction is riding your coat tails for nefarious reasons.
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