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  #181  
Old 12-17-2010, 11:36 AM
arcticgrayling arcticgrayling is offline
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
LOL, I pointed it out in post 69.

I have to admit that that's where my check mark might go too. I'm not sure where I stand on the issue. I don't buy into any of the crap about them being a great poaching weapon, that they are more effective than a compound or that success rates would be higher with them and I also don't really think the loss of opportunity arguement holds any water. If they belong, then vertical bowhunters should share. If they don't belong, then end of discussion. To me the loss of opportunity is a lost leader in this whole issue and unintentionally I'm sure, painted many bowhunters in a bad light. To me, the only issue is whether a crossbow is archery gear or not and all the rest is just rhetoric that has detracted from the core issue. The fact that a crossbow is mechanically held at draw may indeed be enough to exclude it as archery tackle in my mind. I'm just not sure.
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  #182  
Old 12-17-2010, 11:39 AM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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All of the theories about what will happen if crossbows are introduced into bow season is kind of reminding me of Y2K. I don't think that there will be a huge impact in anyway to success rates or tag allocations. As previously stated there may be a slight increase in crossbow sales with newbies wanting to try them out but when they discover that it's not quite so easy they will be gathering dust. But as far as hoards of people heading into the bush with crossbows and being successful, I just can't see it.
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  #183  
Old 12-17-2010, 11:41 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by Stipa comata View Post
They don't increase opportunity. Opportunity to hunt exists now.

If this is so ridiculous it seems there seems to be a contingent very passionate for seeing it come to fruition.

The one point resonating in my mind is the mini "boom" of crossbow sales that some suggest - it may be lucrative for a few. Might also be lucrative for those who rely on crossbow sponsorship or those who might like to become the "Jim Shockey" of the crossbow.
i have no stake in anything, regular alberta hunter, mostly bowhunt but do some rifle stuff too, i just studied the tool itself and i think it would be a great addition to bowhunting to have a one size fits all bow....just like they have in any rifle season....weapons that can go from one set of hands to another.....but i like taking new people with me and i mostly like to bowhunt, it makes every type of sense to me
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  #184  
Old 12-17-2010, 11:48 AM
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Default what the law says

I know that the issue of crossbows in archery season has been a pretty hot and controversial topic over the past few years with a lot of misinformation and assumptions from all sides.

I was researching some recent law in Alberta and I was not surprised to find firearms prohibitions in criminal cases where force or assaults had occurred. What did surprise me was the language of the prohibitions:
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“You are prohibited from owning, having in your possession or carrying a weapon, including knives except those you use for preparing or eating food. Work tools, while you are at work, are a permitted exception to this ban.

You are prohibited from possessing a firearm, crossbow, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition or explosive substance.”

So it would seem that the Alberta Judicial System makes a distinction between recurves, long bows and compound bows and crossbows. The latter being more closely approximated to a firearm as evidenced in prohibition bans.

I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that this may carry some positive weight and precedent in the determination of what hunting season a crossbow belongs. For what it’s worth anyway

Last edited by Sharp Stick; 12-17-2010 at 11:53 AM.
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  #185  
Old 12-17-2010, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by The Sheep Reaper View Post
I know that the issue of crossbows in archery season has been a pretty hot and controversial topic over the past few years with a lot of misinformation and assumptions from all sides.

I was researching some recent law in Alberta and I was not surprised to find firearms prohibitions in criminal cases where force or assaults had occurred. What did surprise me was the language of the prohibitions:
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

“You are prohibited from owning, having in your possession or carrying a weapon, including knives except those you use for preparing or eating food. Work tools, while you are at work, are a permitted exception to this ban.

You are prohibited from possessing a firearm, crossbow, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition or explosive substance.”

So it would seem that the Alberta Judicial System makes a distinction between recurves, long bows and compound bows and crossbows. The latter being more closely approximated to a firearm as evidenced in prohibition bans.

I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that this may carry some positive weight and precedent in the determination of what hunting season a crossbow belongs. For what it’s worth anyway
Or the judge could have been a bow hunter with a hate-on for x-bows

Don't know that your example says a lot. It was one judge's thought on one day. Maybe he just never thought about bows.
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  #186  
Old 12-17-2010, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Or the judge could have been a bow hunter with a hate-on for x-bows

Don't know that your example says a lot. It was one judge's thought on one day. Maybe he just never thought about bows.
So what your saying is that ONE judge created the criminal code
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  #187  
Old 12-17-2010, 11:55 AM
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Gumbi Gumbi is offline
 
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lets try these again!
crossbow
-you dont have to draw back and get busted
-you dont have to hold no wieght back
-your pretty much hunting with a defender
i think bow season should stay bow season, Just my 2 cents

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  #188  
Old 12-17-2010, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Gumbi View Post
lets try these again!
crossbow
-you dont have to draw back and get busted
-you dont have to hold no wieght back
-your pretty much hunting with a defender
i think bow season should stay bow season, Just my 2 cents

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  #189  
Old 12-17-2010, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by The Sheep Reaper View Post
So what your saying is that ONE judge created the criminal code
Is that the standard prohibition issued in all cases?

Wait... I just checked. It is! Interesting... and strange. So if I'm a criminal under a prohibition order I can own and use a bow but not a crossbow. hmmmmmmmmmmm

Last edited by Okotokian; 12-17-2010 at 12:17 PM.
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  #190  
Old 12-17-2010, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Is that the standard prohibition issued in all cases?

Wait... I just checked. It is! Interesting... and strange. So if I'm a criminal under a prohibition order I can own and use a bow but not a crossbow. hmmmmmmmmmmm
Haven't you ever seen The Dukes of Hazzard?
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  #191  
Old 12-17-2010, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by freeones View Post
Haven't you ever seen The Dukes of Hazzard?
yes, but there are only a few "parts" I can remember
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  #192  
Old 12-17-2010, 12:33 PM
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Yes I received mine in e-mail today .Accompanied with my harvest for the season results. TJ & Rich do you have any idea when a decision will be made on the crossbow debate ?
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  #193  
Old 12-17-2010, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Springer View Post
Yes I received mine in e-mail today .Accompanied with my harvest for the season results. TJ & Rich do you have any idea when a decision will be made on the crossbow debate ?
What I understand is that it takes roughly two years to impliment a new regulation so if I understand it right, if they decided to go ahead with it this year, it could be in effect by 2012. They usually announce all the new regulation changes in February.
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  #194  
Old 12-17-2010, 12:47 PM
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I voted NO. Im a bow hunter and I dont want to put a moose or mule deer draws in. If the goverment want to do that way dont they make a muzzelloader season then there might be a reason for draws
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  #195  
Old 12-17-2010, 01:21 PM
albertadeer albertadeer is offline
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I voted no for obvious reasons....but if they do put them in bow season i would hope they put bull elk on archery draw....it would be alot easier to plug a bull with a bolt then with a arrow...just a couple of pennies
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  #196  
Old 12-17-2010, 01:24 PM
IR_mike IR_mike is offline
 
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With all the talk about draw implementation being tossed about on this thread would it only be in the southern or central WMU's where its already inevitable due to population growth and the increased pressures associated with it?

This year for the 12 days I had at the end of November seemed to have a increase of road warriors and people who dont understand the concept of private property but as always walk 100 yards off the road or into the bush by the river a person is alone.

Parked and walked a good strech of both the sand and beaver rivers (local area) and never seen any evidence of any one else out there...the same held true for scouting in September, walked a good portion of the river in prime moose habitat seen animals and found good amount of sighn.

But did not find any tree stands, shooting lanes, ground blinds, or even human tracks along the river or on the trails.

I think as stated you will get a influx of people trying it with a x bow, but the whole walking and patience part will turn them off.

If they have not got into archery and the techniques associated with it by now a x bow wont do it.

Edit. Just relating what I see and know of my little corner of the province, don't know how it relates to the rest of Alberta or the more pressured WMU's closer to the urban areas..

Last edited by IR_mike; 12-17-2010 at 01:37 PM.
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  #197  
Old 12-17-2010, 03:29 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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I just filled out my survey,and submitted my NO vote.
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  #198  
Old 12-17-2010, 04:14 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by Gumbi View Post
your pretty much hunting with a defender
i take it defenders are single shots? if so then yeah it would be close, but i'll still kill the same amount of stuff at about the same ranges as one could with a single shot defender lol, and my tool will still be more versatile....well maybe equal there since you could use some shot to take out the grouse but i would have a judo in the quiver and could also choose my chicken load, you might have about 25 yrds on me in smooth bore doing foster slugs.....might....might be more like only 5-10 yrds

so having said that, i'm with you on the defender...about equal to both compound and crossbow as they are about equal with each other....two of them are alot quieter though

i guess you just have to think about it a little more, i have zero interest of hunting anything with a smoothbore slugger which i understand is approx. 75 yrd tool and groups pretty rare at 100 yrds useable, sounds about right for archery upper limits also (guys are killing over 100 yrds with archery tackle now, Archie Nesbitt has been pinned to 120 yrds for a long long time)

they do make firearms that are about as useful as compounds/crossbows...but they still go bang and you could still get them in semi-auto form etc....keep the bows with the bows and the boom sticks with the boom sticks

the compound will remain the most numerous because its the most versatile of all bow choices, the single shot crossbow would have its place as introduction and physical limitations tool but thats about it

oh and just to clear something up, the smoothbore defender with fosters might be the shortest range firearm choice you could possibly make, the new savage 220f 20 gauge slugger i just got would have quadruple to maybe 5x the range of the defender.....choose the defender in firearms would be like choosing the longbow in archery....hardly anyone does it

so don't go saying the defender fits in with bowhunting....clearly it doesn't but if you were to choose it and me and my compound....we would both kill about the same....would come down to hunter forsure but i'd bet on me

just sayin

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 12-17-2010 at 04:21 PM.
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  #199  
Old 12-17-2010, 04:44 PM
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Im pro bowhunting, next year i probly will not pick up my rifle till late in the season. That will be only if i need more meat to get me till next huntin season. Picture this, your walkin in to ur stand or blind then out of no where a really trophy walks out. What makes it easyer to take that game a weapon already loaded and ready to rock or something that u have to try to pull back with out spooking then take a shot?
The defender thing was just an example of a ready to shoot weapon same as a xbow and close the the same range.
Thats all im say.
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  #200  
Old 12-17-2010, 05:15 PM
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you dont have to draw back and get busted
-you dont have to hold no wieght back

These two things set them apart from the compounds. I voted no because of this. If they want to have a primitive weapon season then fine. I just don't think they belong in with the archery season. With a lot of our hunting terrain here these two differences are big. Especially when hunting with the bow from the ground.
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  #201  
Old 12-17-2010, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SLH View Post
Are you handicapped or something and can't use a bow, if so I apologize for being critical of your position. You do understand that the petty and spiteful comments where meant only if you were an able bodied hunter that could fully utilize the archery season. There are provisions in the hunting regs. for those that can't operate a real bow during an archery season.

Even at that I'd have to reitereate that your position is actually reducing opportunity for all hunters just so you can satisfy your personal handicaps.

If you are not handicapped in some manner than some past comments that you yourself have made about hunter divisiveness seems to only apply to everyone else. Your single arguement for is actually a dangerous precedent in wildlife and hunter management.
I dont think 209 is picking on the archery season in general , just the fact that a few certain species (Mule deer) can be accessed every yr with a bow but are actually draw zones that have 3 to 6 yr wait times for rifle hunters. So the archers can shoot a big mulie every yr and the rifle guys have to wait 5 yrs
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  #202  
Old 12-17-2010, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie View Post
I'll be Voting YES along with most of my Family,And i've said before that Archery Muledeer in Alberta should be on Draw,to better manage the species .
Again, putting Mule deer on a draw system for bowhunters I don't believe is an effective way to increase numbers and trophies, in Alberta.

If anyone is privious enough to have the mule deer buck harvest by Bow info , to qualify either statement that would be great.
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  #203  
Old 12-17-2010, 06:11 PM
Pikebreath Pikebreath is offline
 
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Just something else to think about,,,, currently the 100 series wmus have 4 - four day (Wed - Sat) general seasons (16 days total) where all legal weapons are allowed. In the CWD 100 zones there are 3 extra 4 day seasons extending till Dec 18. Why not open the off days (Sun - Tuesday) to a "Strings Attached" season for bows and cross bows?

No extra tags,,,, same draws as we now have,,,, just extra opportunity for those who would like to hunt with bow or cross bow in November / Dec while not impacting any current season opportunities for firearms hunters.
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  #204  
Old 12-17-2010, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
Just something else to think about,,,, currently the 100 series wmus have 4 - four day (Wed - Sat) general seasons (16 days total) where all legal weapons are allowed. In the CWD 100 zones there are 3 extra 4 day seasons extending till Dec 18. Why not open the off days (Sun - Tuesday) to a "Strings Attached" season for bows and cross bows?

No extra tags,,,, same draws as we now have,,,, just extra opportunity for those who would like to hunt with bow or cross bow in November / Dec while not impacting any current season opportunities for firearms hunters.
I think the current 4 day hunt is to ease the pressure on the game during the rifle season. Why not put bow on draw for the month of october with the same 4 day hunts, and include crossbow.
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  #205  
Old 12-17-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by the sheep reaper View Post
x2
x 3
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  #206  
Old 12-17-2010, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty View Post
you dont have to draw back and get busted
-you dont have to hold no wieght back

These two things set them apart from the compounds. I voted no because of this. If they want to have a primitive weapon season then fine. I just don't think they belong in with the archery season. With a lot of our hunting terrain here these two differences are big. Especially when hunting with the bow from the ground.
Exactly!!! On the ground is where the huge diifernce is. Like i said before you might as well have a gun in your hand when hunting with a cross bow in archery season. When your busted by a 340 bull at 10 yards and you could not draw your bow prior or you had it drawn and he took to long to get into the shooting lane and now you have to let down,compared to just resting your arm on a tree at full draw for ever if needed with your cross bow looking through your SCOPE and just pulling the trigger.hmmmm yep like i said might as well have a 300 win mag in archery season. What a fricken joke!!!!!!!!!
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  #207  
Old 12-17-2010, 06:48 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Originally Posted by Gumbi View Post
Picture this, your walkin in to ur stand or blind then out of no where a really trophy walks out. What makes it easyer to take that game a weapon already loaded and ready to rock or something that u have to try to pull back with out spooking then take a shot?
If the crossbow is loaded then you have to assume that you have an arrow ready to be drawn on the compound bow. Unless you always hunt with the crossbow at the ready like a SWAT guy entering a house, your going to have to move to get that crossbow to your shoulder. Likewise you will have to move to draw the compound bow.

Like I stated earlier, a compound bow takes extra effort to draw but as far as movement goes there's not a heck of allot more giving this situation. Make sense?
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  #208  
Old 12-17-2010, 06:51 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Originally Posted by The Bit Runner. View Post
....hmmmm yep like i said might as well have a 300 win mag in archery season. What a fricken joke!!!!!!!!!
This comment rates up there with the roadhunting with a crossbow one.
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  #209  
Old 12-17-2010, 07:01 PM
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This is like fly fishermen versus everyone else, united we stand etc. For the vertical bow dudes, be honest what's the best thing to come by lately? 80% let off, match that with a quality mechanical release, tru glo or even red dot scope sight and you're really wanking compared to real stick and string with no sights. Muzzle loader traditionalists don't like the in-line guys ad nauseum. It's just hunting, don't let the minutiae trip you up, the antis are waiting to pounce.
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  #210  
Old 12-17-2010, 07:13 PM
The Bit Runner. The Bit Runner. is offline
 
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Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
This comment rates up there with the roadhunting with a crossbow one.
Dave, Its a statement that goes with my whole post,You obviously never read the whole thing or your stupid comment on my post would not be here.

Let me ask you one question. Do you think the crossbow has a huge advantage on the situation in my last post? Just a ohnest answer would be great. Of course you and everyother person on here would say YES to that answer. How could you not!!!!!!!!!
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