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09-18-2018, 04:31 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 98
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Lawyer Shoutout & More rights for my fellow hunters
I would like to pass along my thanks to Greg Dunn of Dunn & Associates here in Calgary. I found myself in need of his services unexpectedly after an interaction with a conservation officer. Greg is a fellow hunter, just like the rest of us and not one of those lawyers who takes himself too seriously. He is however, capable and creative and I have him to thank for helping me (and us) out. (Apparently us hunter types rarely use lawyers/fight against CO's/gov't. I'm glad I did).
AND as part of this story, the great news for ALL hunters in Alberta is that you now have more constitutional rights (or perhaps more accurately, they have been legally recognized).
In basic terms, we mounted a constitutional challenge as to the legality of randomly stopping people without....
..."reasonable suspicion" that an individual had been engaged in an activity covered by the Act in order to lawfully stop the a vehicle."
And WON.
A happy, legal and safe hunting season to you all...
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09-18-2018, 05:18 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,509
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Congratulations! It's always a pleasure to successfully litigate against the system! I would be most interested in hearing about the CO encounter itself, if you are willing to share that is.
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09-18-2018, 05:20 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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But, were you guilty ?  Legal loop holes are no excuse for committing an offense. Also, always the possibility of an appeal, can't see the Crown being happy with that.
Grizz
__________________
"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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09-18-2018, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vulcan Ab
Posts: 3,871
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I'm sure many of us would like to hear more details. 
__________________
"It's like bragging that it's 10 CENTIMETERS LONG! (when really, it's 4" dude, settle down)"
Huntinstuff
"Me neither but it's all in the eye of the beer holder"
norwestalta
.....out of bounds.....but funny none the less!
LC
"Funny how when a bear eats another bear, no one bats an eye, but......
when a human eats another human, people act like it's the end if the friggin world. News coverage, tweets, blogs, outrage, Piers Morgan etcetc.
Go figure." -Huntinstuff
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09-18-2018, 06:05 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams
But, were you guilty ? Legal loop holes are no excuse for committing an offense. Also, always the possibility of an appeal, can't see the Crown being happy with that.
Grizz |
Not a loop hole at all if the officer stopped him without reasonable grounds for suspicion. Pretty black and white. They have laws and rules to follow just like anyone else.
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09-18-2018, 06:09 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,372
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Please give us the name of the case so we can reference it
That’d be very very useful.
__________________
"How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live.”
-HDT
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends on the character of the user." T. Roosevelt
"I don't always troll, only on days that end in Y."
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09-18-2018, 06:38 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,604
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Awesome.
I've always wondered about getting stopped.
If I'm diving why should I be stopped and why should I have to show my hunting license?
I'm driving not hunting.
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09-18-2018, 06:40 PM
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: prince albert
Posts: 1,838
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They cant do a stop check or compliance check whatever it's called?
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09-18-2018, 06:52 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 23
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Greg is a great lawyer!
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09-18-2018, 06:53 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Rat
Awesome.
I've always wondered about getting stopped.
If I'm diving why should I be stopped and why should I have to show my hunting license?
I'm driving not hunting.
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You only have to show your hunting license if you say your hunting.
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09-18-2018, 07:36 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 71
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I don’t give the co’s A hard time for checking in on me when I’m glassing a valley out of my truck, they have a tough job and from what I’ve found are hunters just like me, heck I’ve even had them bring out maps and show me areas that I’m allowed to hunt, I guess we have a few bad apples on both sides
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09-18-2018, 07:58 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
Not a loop hole at all if the officer stopped him without reasonable grounds for suspicion. Pretty black and white. They have laws and rules to follow just like anyone else.
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There is more to the story than just that. You don't start litigation and spend thousands because you think you were wrongly stopped.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”
Thomas Sowell
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09-18-2018, 08:00 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf
There is more to the story than just that. You don't start litigation and spend thousands because you think you were wrongly stopped.
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Based on the info provided in this thread, which is all we have to go off, it seems I am correct.
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09-18-2018, 08:01 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,559
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Assume away! Lol
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09-18-2018, 08:03 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,559
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And yes people have spent thousands over a 100 dollar ticket just for spite because they know they are in the right and refuse to roll over and take it!
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09-18-2018, 08:15 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cochrane
Posts: 738
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If you're doing everything by the book, you wouldn't be in court fighting reasonable grounds 
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09-18-2018, 08:19 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,331
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And the charges were?????
Oh the silence is killing us...
You can get off for murder in a court of law nowadays, so the lack of info on this one helps us in no way.
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09-18-2018, 08:25 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rocky Mnt House
Posts: 934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JReed
If you're doing everything by the book, you wouldn't be in court fighting reasonable grounds |
No but someone has to finally put up a fight.
It is like saying, if you have nothing to hide why don't the cops have the right to just stop by your house for a inspection? Well if your not hiding anything then why not?
Where does it end?
Someone(maybe) got tired of it and had the cash(assuming) and decided to fight it, now there is president, and now the local fish cop, needs to actually do what was written into law(not what they believe is law) and have reasonable cause to pull you over.
Now I have no clue what went on in this case. But I have been pulled over many times during hunting season, I want to look at your gun, tags, licences, check over my truck, give me a grilling about the blood in the box from a few days ago, and basically I have to prove that I did not do anything wrong, before I can continue on with my day.
Now in all these cases, I did nothing wrong, just happen to be driving past a fish and wildlife officer.
I got pulled over because it was hunting season and I was driving slow and wearing camo(could have been anytime of year, it is my normal colors)
Just my 2 cents
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09-18-2018, 08:49 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,615
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Yep there is a thing called harassment too and some officers take it personal and take things too far. I know this first hand. When they pull you over blindly be very careful how you answer the first questions. Sometimes they are investigating a poacher or something in that area that you just wandered into unknowingly. If you get smart with them or act offended they might take that the wrong way. It happened to me way before there was social media or smart phones it was just me and him and he had the wrong guy and I had nothing to hide and wasn't taking any crap either. I wish I had a lawyer and witness then but he was just trying to do his job in hind sight.
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09-18-2018, 08:59 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JReed
If you're doing everything by the book, you wouldn't be in court fighting reasonable grounds |
Hahaha good one! 
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09-18-2018, 09:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntwat
You only have to show your hunting license if you say your hunting.
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Yes but do ask when they can see I'm driving on a road ?
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09-18-2018, 09:03 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
And yes people have spent thousands over a 100 dollar ticket just for spite because they know they are in the right and refuse to roll over and take it!
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Sounds familiar,I’m doing exactly that myself....I’m already out over $1500 in lost wages,fuel and travel costs fighting a $120 ticket and will be spending/losing at least that much again,and I haven’t even hired a lawyer(yet?).... probably won’t even bother with the lawyer,this case has more holes then a fishing net.
GP Peace Officers are outta control,overzealous,cash grabber road bandits....not this time!!
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The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited. 
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09-18-2018, 09:05 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: stony plain
Posts: 551
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So instead of the bull crap. State the charges and facts so we can get to the point.
__________________
"i never could find no tracks in a womans heart"
"I swear, a womans breast is the hardest rock the
almighty ever made on this earth, and i can find no sign on it." Bearclaw
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09-18-2018, 09:07 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton Area
Posts: 4,102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill 60 Kid
I would like to pass along my thanks to Greg Dunn of Dunn & Associates here in Calgary. I found myself in need of his services unexpectedly after an interaction with a conservation officer. Greg is a fellow hunter, just like the rest of us and not one of those lawyers who takes himself too seriously. He is however, capable and creative and I have him to thank for helping me (and us) out. (Apparently us hunter types rarely use lawyers/fight against CO's/gov't. I'm glad I did).
AND as part of this story, the great news for ALL hunters in Alberta is that you now have more constitutional rights (or perhaps more accurately, they have been legally recognized).
In basic terms, we mounted a constitutional challenge as to the legality of randomly stopping people without....
..."reasonable suspicion" that an individual had been engaged in an activity covered by the Act in order to lawfully stop the a vehicle."
And WON.
A happy, legal and safe hunting season to you all...
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What violation did the CO discover when he illegally stopped you?
You answer will determine whether I celebrate your victory or shake my head in disgust.
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09-18-2018, 09:08 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
Sounds familiar,I’m doing exactly that myself....I’m already out over $1500 in lost wages,fuel and travel costs fighting a $120 ticket and will be spending/losing at least that much again,and I haven’t even hired a lawyer(yet?).... probably won’t even bother with the lawyer,this case has more holes then a fishing net.
GP Peace Officers are outta control,overzealous,cash grabber road bandits....not this time!!
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^ this guy is no sell out! Good on you for standing your ground. My daddy taught me to never back down when you are in the right.
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09-18-2018, 09:20 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sylvan Lake
Posts: 3,419
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The unconstitutional stop and search has bothered me for a long time. I spent an hour being interrogated and have a scratch on my Maxus that was cased in my truck but needed to be checked for a plug.
It is nobody's business what someone was found not guilty of or what charges were thrown out. It is no wonder our rights and freedoms are being trampled with the comments on here.
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09-18-2018, 09:38 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 214
Posts: 1,817
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CO
I have also been put off by a CO pulling me over in my boat and jumping onboard and going through my cooler and lunch bag.
If I was driving erratically, or smelled like booze, there is probable cause and that would be no problem. (Note, I dont drink)
Check my license if Im fishing, even look at my terminal tackle, ask about my safety equipment but lets leave my cooler and lunch out of "your fishing" trip.
Good on the OP for standing up.
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09-18-2018, 09:57 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,224
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Hill 60,
Please come back with more information of this case. Would Love to read the court documents.
Unwarranted stop and searches without stated probable cause has been a Huge open door which I feel has been abused by enforcement. I sure hope the courts address these concerns. Maybe they just did....
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntwat
You only have to show your hunting license if you say your hunting.
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Absolutely not! Once you admit to hunting, the doors and even the panty pack are wide open for review.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Rat
Yes but do ask when they can see I'm driving on a road ?
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Or how about parked in a Provincial Park? Officer claiming because I have a hunting licence she considers my mere existence outdoors sufficient for cause to search a vehicle based on her interpretation that Anyone with a hunting licence is actively hunting at all times.... yet she refused to charge me for hunting in a Park after I made the suggestion.... 
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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09-18-2018, 10:02 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cochrane
Posts: 738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
Sounds familiar,I’m doing exactly that myself....I’m already out over $1500 in lost wages,fuel and travel costs fighting a $120 ticket and will be spending/losing at least that much again,and I haven’t even hired a lawyer(yet?).... probably won’t even bother with the lawyer,this case has more holes then a fishing net.
GP Peace Officers are outta control,overzealous,cash grabber road bandits....not this time!!
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Good for you man, you’ll be remembered by all in Alberta. When its all said and done let me know, we’ll get shirts made up with your face on it. Kinda like the whole Che Guevera thing lol
What a waste of money
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09-18-2018, 10:22 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,604
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Or how about parked in a Provincial Park? Officer claiming because I have a hunting licence she considers my mere existence outdoors sufficient for cause to search a vehicle based on her interpretation that Anyone with a hunting licence is actively hunting at all times.... yet she refused to charge me for hunting in a Park after I made the suggestion.... [/QUOTE]
Some of them have no idea of how to gain respect to get your cooperation.
If they start off by treating you like you have done something wrong, I lose my trust in them.
I've met some good ones but I've met too many snot nose punks that do not understand that you will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
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