packing a driveway and foundation?

[gerby]

i'm planning on building an attached garage, and widening the existing driveway about 1500 sq ft total , how big of a tamper would i need to rent in order to pack the gravel?

[roger]

sounds like a good project,
id say bigger the better.
keep your ground moist to assist in compaction and remember to pack well past the actual area so the ground doesnt sluff away

[vanhill]

How much fill are putting in your drive way?

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

The 1000# desiel plate tamper will be good. A well graded 25mm minus Crush gravel that has good fracture count and a bit on the dirty side will pack up like concrete IF you have a solid subgrade and use water when compacting the gravel. Do not place the lift thickness of gravel no more than 8" loose and it will pack up to be about 6" thick.

Please don't say you are starting now. You cannot pack frozen gravel, let alone pack On top of frozen subgrade.

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

BTW, your garage foundation should be built on native, undisturbed soils that can bear the load of the foundation, with your foundation designed accordingly. Foundation should not be built on uncontrolled fill.

[Kim473]

Because it will be attached, you may have to put in some piles or other special footings. I think you need to talk to your local permit office or engineer to see what is required. Don't need the garage pulling away from the house in a few years.

[JustBen]

Originally Posted by Ice Fishing Maniac

The 1000# desiel plate tamper will be good. A well graded 25mm minus Crush gravel that has good fracture count and a bit on the dirty side will pack up like concrete IF you have a solid subgrade and use water when compacting the gravel. Do not place the lift thickness of gravel no more than 8" loose and it will pack up to be about 6" thick.

Please don't say you are starting now. You cannot pack frozen gravel, let alone pack On top of frozen subgrade.

Some good starting points. Remember, do not overwater. And make sure that the dirty crush you use is clay free, otherwise you will have swell problems.

[Tundra Monkey]

I agree with Ice Fishing Maniac.....good 3/4 or 1/2" minus with decent fines in it. A plate tamper, water and a day of walking behind it drinking beer.

A couple of 4" lifts and a ton of packing.

If you are worried about losing your gravel at all it is not a bad idea to put a layer of filter cloth down to keep it around. It is cheap and works well.

[Xbolt7mm]

Use a 4-20 gravel, 2-20 is ok as well, make sure u get gravel from a reputable place so the don't give you reject, I would never use a plate tamper for that application as it needs to vibrate to even move, if you pack it too much the surface breaks and actual loses compaction, get a small walk behind roller that vibrates and do the last passes without the vibrater on. Gravel can take a lot of water if it's got the right sieve

[Blastoff]

Plate tamper is what is needed, rent it shouldn't be more than a couples bottles of whiskey.

[srs123]

Originally Posted by gerby

i'm planning on building an attached garage, and widening the existing driveway about 1500 sq ft total , how big of a tamper would i need to rent in order to pack the gravel?

generally what we do with gravel is we get the loader to drop it from half a meter height and spread it.

gravel is known as a self compacting material. running a packer on it will not pack it anymore than dropping from a half a meter height. then spread it and run 1000 lbs packer on it just to get the gravel in all voids in between.

now the ground below should be compacted to 98% of the standard proctor (SPMDD). the ground should be checked for standing water. organic soil. soft spots and grade.

if you are in Calgary send me a PM , I'm a professional civil engineer and I can come look at it for ya (for free)

[srs123]

Originally Posted by Ice Fishing Maniac

The 1000# desiel plate tamper will be good. A well graded 25mm minus Crush gravel that has good fracture count and a bit on the dirty side will pack up like concrete IF you have a solid subgrade and use water when compacting the gravel. Do not place the lift thickness of gravel no more than 8" loose and it will pack up to be about 6" thick.

Please don't say you are starting now. You cannot pack frozen gravel, let alone pack On top of frozen subgrade.

this stuff is also important

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by srs123

generally what we do with gravel is we get the loader to drop it from half a meter height and spread it.

gravel is known as a self compacting material.
)

Yikes

gravel is definitely not self compacting. I think you are talking about pea gravel.

You can get a small packer but you'll just have to use smaller lifts and more time.

[ghfalls]

When I did my driveway on my acreage, I rented a sheep foot packer that was controlled with a remote control. I got my brother in law to run that while drinking beer and I kept putting more gravel on it until we got to about 6 inches thick. The driveway has held out great.

[srs123]

Originally Posted by Map Maker

Yikes

gravel is definitely not self compacting. I think you are talking about pea gravel.

You can get a small packer but you'll just have to use smaller lifts and more time.

what I mean is the round gravels (70 mm or so if I remember correctly that is used as a sub grade material. you can certainly use a pack to push the angular pieces into place to create a smoother surface. however you will never be able to "compress a pebble" either you will crush it or push it into the soft sub base below it. hence why we use the term self compacting loosely.

[Map Maker]

do you know what fracture count is?

The reason why you want crushed gravel is so the rock bite into each other.

if you want to be a good engineer, take a few years and go to work in a soils lab.

I will do anything to keep engineers off my jobsites. They are more of a liability than anything.

Ive built 5 water treatment plants and the four designed by engineers have all been disasters. The crown jewel was designed by a chicken farmer. Easy to use and maintain.

[Sneeze]

Everybody is Mike Homes before even asking a few questions.

Hey Gerby- Why the packer? Are you talking about packing a gravel driveway? Or is this a concrete driveway you are widening?

Why do you need a packer for the foundation? Your excavator should be able to handle this as he backfills inside the garage.

[Parker Hale]

If what your asking here is just about doing the ground prep for the drive way a plate tamper will be fine, and can be rented at a reasonable rate. 1/2 day from Home depot shouldn't be more than 50 bucks.

I poured concrete for several years, PM me if you have any questions.

[beaver blaster]

jumping jack oughta do the job. Lol

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Kim473

Because it will be attached, you may have to put in some piles or other special footings. I think you need to talk to your local permit office or engineer to see what is required. Don't need the garage pulling away from the house in a few years.

x2, talk to the powers that be, you're gonna need to submit plans and get a permit anyway. You're going to need some footings and a frost wall. Your floor re bar should dowel into that.

Grizz

[roger]

Gotta agree with sneeze here.I got to thinking the op said driveway. I'm assuming he is refering to what I would call an apron. Basically the parking spot in front of the garage door.. my 'driveway' is 200 yards long...that's alot of concrete.

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Why do you need a packer for the foundation? Your excavator should be able to handle this as he backfills inside the garage.

Quick question how does an excavator bucket compact gravel or Clay subgrade?

Track pack or tamping with a bucket does not compact.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by Ice Fishing Maniac

Quick question how does an excavator bucket compact gravel or Clay subgrade?

Track pack or tamping with a bucket does not compact.

I should have been clearer - the excavation contractor he hires.

[Kim473]

Originally Posted by Ice Fishing Maniac

Quick question how does an excavator bucket compact gravel or Clay subgrade?

Track pack or tamping with a bucket does not compact.

They have packer attachments for them. Can change the bucket over to the packer and back again in a min or two if they have a quick coupler.

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Originally Posted by Kim473

They have packer attachments for them. Can change the bucket over to the packer and back again in a min or two if they have a quick coupler.

Yes there are attachments. I have seen them all used on job sites. IMO a hydraulic plate tamper attachment is suitable for utility trench backfilling operations until single drum pad foot packers for clay and smooth drum for sands and gravels can be used but not the best for compaction in pad areas . Plus the compaction effort with the hydraulic plate tamper is dependant on the excavator operator.

Also some soils conditions require static compaction as the vibes (be it an attachment plate tamper/walk behind or driven packer) will "quicken" the soils therefore making compaction of the current lift and additional lifts near impossible and then require removal of poor soft very moist soils and starting again from a solid subgrade.

[Xbolt7mm]

Poor gerby should be properly messed up by now, there's been some fairly silly things said in this thread

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

Poor gerby should be properly messed up by now, there's been some fairly silly things said in this thread

I agree sorry Gerby.

As previously mentioned, 1000# diesel plate tamper or even a 750# will work just fine.

[gerby]

phewww info info and some more info , the problem of internet, everyone has got a different opinion lol

but i appreciate it very much that you guy's are all trying to help me

yes i'm talking about an apron, right now the existing one is paved
but i just want to make it a bit wider and use gravel instead of pavement
then one day i'll rip out the pavement and pour concrete over the whole thing

i'm working on the application of building permits, not getting it engineered
i talked to a bunch of local contracters that gave me some advice, and according to local code it's not required to have it engineered

yes i'm going to put pilings under the grade beam, and the grade beam will be on undisturbed soil
the packing of the road gravel (6'') is for the base of the floor, then 6'' of screened gravel and then a 5'' floor

but i think i'll just go with a 1000 lbs plate tamper then orso

question: if i put down 6'' of gravel and pack it , will that become thinner then? , just so i know how much gravel to order

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

6 " loose will compact between 1-1.5". Place loose lift around 7-8" should compact to 6". Use well graded crush and add water to moisture condition as required. Water will aid in compaction if gravel moisture is looking dry. If you need a balance lift of GBC to bring to grade just place and then compact or just go with a bit thicker concrete slab.

FYI a grade beam is supported on the piles. A lot of the times you will see styrofoam placed below the bottom of the gradebeams on loose gravel prior to concrete poured. Footings are built on native undisturbed soils. The size of footings is dependant on what the soils can bear for a load.

My guess is your house is on piles if you are placing your attached garage on a pile/gradebeam foundation. Make sure your pile depth accounts for freeze/thaw conditions. Footings are the less costly foundation design.

I would verify the square footage of your garage to confirm you do not need an engineered foundation with your city/municipality bylaws. Depending on size you may need stamped foundation drawings.

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

Poor gerby should be properly messed up by now, there's been some fairly silly things said in this thread

I dont think so. He would probably get the same ideas from contractors with a limited info on scope of the project.

Pretty much 95% of the population has done a foundation before so people state their opinions on their experience.

If you got money to burn then you can buy a huge packer and get premuim gravel and get good results. But if you got experience you can easily get by with smaller packer and cheaper gravel and put your extra money somewhere else and still get good results.

Its up to the individual.