tundra- c&r on fish

[Big Red 250]

Here in Mb, our fishery's have implented a lot of length regulations that have greatly improved our fishery. We have minimum length to be kept on some waterbody's, maximum length on other's. Slot limits on alot of lakes. Lowered limits on different lakes. Sure can't go fishing without a reg book on you and a tape measure. I, myself release a lot of fish, but I do like a feed of walleye or perch once in awhile.

Originally Posted by walley

I can't believe that a person who is doing nothing illegal by keeping a fish or two for whatever reason (either for the meat or a mount-a fish of a lifetime), gets crucified on this and other message boards. These people shouldn't have to get raked over the coals for this.

If you guys who are whining about keeping these fish don't want to keep any, good for you. I never kept any fish last year but I don't criticize people who do. If you want to do something constructive why don't you guys put pressure on the government to stop commercial netting. I have seen the 20-35 pounders come into a buddy's butcher shop from the commercial fishermen. Sportsfishermen don't even come close to the carnage on our fisheries that commercial netters do. Give it a rest and keep your thoughts to yourself!

Like Fisherpotch has been saying, nothing wrong with keeping fish as long as it's regulated and you aren't keeping fish that will affect the spawn. You give it a rest and keep your thoughts to yourself, this is the point of a message board.

Originally Posted by Mudder Man

Check out this Bad Girl i caught at Gull Lake this past Hardwater season. Was a great catch and a even better release. She is off to make 1,000s more for us to catch.

Mudder

Awesome job Mudder! It would be hard for a lot of guys to put that one back but you are a true outdoorsman!!!

[wildman]

quote;
"Give it a rest and keep your thoughts to yourself!"
are you kidding me!!!!!!!!! this whole thread was started because someone, ahem, tundrabuck, wouldn't stop preaching and whining!!!!!! now you have the audacity to tell someone else to give it a rest???
quote;
"My sons and I harvest few deer"
"I do hunt for the meat as well"
sooooo, when YOU kill wildlife it's a sacred tradition with your kids but when others do it's an unspeakable crime???
quote;
"you can't compare hunting to fishing"
of couse you can. it's exactly the same.
you're upset people are taking spawners...what do you call the huge buck with the massive rack in the prime of it's health??? you think it might have bred again if you didn't kill it??? NO DIFFERENCE. You think a younger buck will take the place of one you kill. How is fish any different? How can you prove that an old 30lb fish spawns as well as a mid-aged 15lb fish? I don't know any grannies having babies.

Dude I'm sure we are all on the same side here. We all want to sustain the resources for the future. Obviously many people also enjoy a meal or two of fresh game. YOURSELF included. There is no difference killing a health, brood stock mammal or a healthy brood stock fish. I personally don't ever keep big pike or eyes as they don't even taste good. Everyone's got a right to do as they wish within the law though. YOU can't judge others when you do the same yourself.
quote;
"tundra.....i as well c&r.almost everything i catch but why u so hard on everyone else??if they choose to keep a fish of allowable size so be it....just becouse its your thoughts that all big ones be released dosent mean we all have to....i too have some opinions about how things should be done but i keep those to myself, who are we to judge people loving the outdoors we are here to support them...
rob"
as ROB originally said, we all have our opinions. if you feel this strongly about yours, gather your case and do something about changing the regs. Everyone here abides by the rules. YOU legally kill and eat wildlife and so do the people you constantly scold.

[nekred]

You know all this ****ng and moaning about what is the right way is what will end up affecting all of our futures.

Some people like to catch and keep some like to catch and release.

The fisheries are managed. If the stocks are good keeping the fish is not causing any harm.

instead of causing grief for legal anglers how about we focus on the illegal anglers!....You know the ones that catch and keep when the rules call for catch and release, those who catch over their limit, those who fish with bait in non-bait areas etc.

these are the ones that do the most harm. many people here like to get on their high horse, or behind a pulpit.... If I had the one big pike a year I legally keep out on the ice and someone come up to me preaching, they would get an earful.

How can we unite as sportsman against the poachers and anti-hunters if we keep cutting each other to bits for what amounts to differences in perceptions and opinions!... Just my two bits!

[wildman]

Amen Nekred!!!!!!!!!

[packhuntr]

Neckred, Like i was saying earlier, do we really need more laws to get people in our own ranks to see that promoting change now, will assure a stronger future. Ive decided to change, and wow, all without someone telling me i have to.....Im not a rebel, im just able to see the benefit. I would love to eat something other than whitefish, but i dont, cause when i release these lower # fish species, im doing it in hopes that the next person to enjoy catching it will do the same. Lord knows, its gonna get clubbed for the pan though.....Id love to have afew feeds of pike like i used to, but i cant, its that simple, weve accepted that in my house hold. We choose to enjoy it on a much lower impact-scale than we used to, cause we know how greedy others are with this resource.

If you passed more laws right now to promote all the things that have been discussed here previously, Youd make criminals out of half the people on here claiming its their right, and they are within the boundarys of the law. Look at it this way, the people youve called poachers, were at one time just regular old average everyday fisherman. They went to the creek with a can of worms, and caught their limit and went home. We still have these folks out there, they are referred to as poachers now, but they still think its their right to do as they did for years. If law is needed to promote C&R fishing on certain sizes and certain species, half the folks who arent willingly open to change RIGHT NOW, AND FOR THE GOOD OF THE RESOURCE, will be folks we are going to have to report in the very near future. MARK MY WORDS..........

keep a strain on er.

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Neckred, Like i was saying earlier, do we really need more laws to get people in our own ranks to see that promoting change now, will assure a stronger future. Ive decided to change, and wow, all without someone telling me i have to.....Im not a rebel, im just able to see the benefit. I would love to eat something other than whitefish, but i dont, cause when i release these lower # fish species, im doing it in hopes that the next person to enjoy catching it will do the same. Lord knows, its gonna get clubbed for the pan though.....Id love to have afew feeds of pike like i used to, but i cant, its that simple, weve accepted that in my house hold. We choose to enjoy it on a much lower impact-scale than we used to, cause we know how greedy others are with this resource.

If you passed more laws right now to promote all the things that have been discussed here previously, Youd make criminals out of half the people on here claiming its their right, and they are within the boundarys of the law. Look at it this way, the people youve called poachers, were at one time just regular old average everyday fisherman. They went to the creek with a can of worms, and caught their limit and went home. We still have these folks out there, they are referred to as poachers now, but they still think its their right to do as they did for years. If law is needed to promote C&R fishing on certain sizes and certain species, half the folks who arent willingly open to change RIGHT NOW, AND FOR THE GOOD OF THE RESOURCE, will be folks we are going to have to report in the very near future. MARK MY WORDS..........

keep a strain on er.

Another good contribution packhuntr. Wildman, seriously, you're targeting me and doing no good here. Why don't you help to be part of the solution. And again, stop comparing hunting to fishing, you can't.

[bearbait]

ok guys.....i started this thread saying lets support our fellow outdoorsman....we all have different views on alot of stuff, but why argue with each other about them...we have enough problems with anti's...we are the one's who fuel the fires for these guys.starting a thead on educating us on spawnning fish would be alot more productive then doing this dont you think???some things are better left unsaid...

just my thoughts
rob

Originally Posted by bearbait

ok guys.....i started this thread saying lets support our fellow outdoorsman....we all have different views on alot of stuff, but why argue with each other about them...we have enough problems with anti's...we are the one's who fuel the fires for these guys.starting a thead on educating us on spawnning fish would be alot more productive then doing this dont you think???some things are better left unsaid...

just my thoughts
rob

Starting a thread would get the exact same responses now. Guys challenging the biological facts.

[nekred]

Too bad some people have to push their ethics on others and want the ;aw to reflect their ethics!....

Here is the other side of the coin big pike eat the smaller fish even their own species. By keeping the big pike maybe i am helping the whitefish and walleye to survive!....

There is always two sides to a coin and catch limits for the lakes are set according to populations found in the lake.

Maybe by throwing back that big pike you are hurting the walleye fishery...

An I never called worm baiters poachers... only where baiting is illegal!

The more we try to tinker with the natural system the worse we seem to make it. catching and consuming is part of the natural cycle. catch and release is unnatural!.....Not saying it is wrong... there is a place for catch and release and there is a place for catch and keep.

if everone would just mind their own business and stay legal we would nat have the problem.

here is two simple rules:
if you see someone you do not know doing something that is legal you do not agree with... keep you nose out of it.

If you see someone doing something illegal.... REPORT IT....


That will do farmore for our sport than preaching some self righteos horse****

Just for the record!.... i mostly catch and release for the reasons mentioned but don't preach it!...

Originally Posted by nekred

Too bad some people have to push their ethics on others and want the ;aw to reflect their ethics!....

Here is the other side of the coin big pike eat the smaller fish even their own species. By keeping the big pike maybe i am helping the whitefish and walleye to survive!....

There is always two sides to a coin and catch limits for the lakes are set according to populations found in the lake.

Maybe by throwing back that big pike you are hurting the walleye fishery...

An I never called worm baiters poachers... only where baiting is illegal!

The more we try to tinker with the natural system the worse we seem to make it. catching and consuming is part of the natural cycle. catch and release is unnatural!.....Not saying it is wrong... there is a place for catch and release and there is a place for catch and keep.

if everone would just mind their own business and stay legal we would nat have the problem.

here is two simple rules:
if you see someone you do not know doing something that is legal you do not agree with... keep you nose out of it.

If you see someone doing something illegal.... REPORT IT....


That will do farmore for our sport than preaching some self righteos horse****

Just for the record!.... i mostly catch and release for the reasons mentioned but don't preach it!...

You are un-freaking-believable. C&R is way more natural than human intervention is. Wow.

[mud slug]

hey guys i know we are talking about catch and releaseing big pike, and i agree with releaseing the spawners to help keep the pike numbers strong. but just wondering if that refers to other fish as well. are we not hurting the perch population by keeping the bigger ones? or the burbot pops by keeping limits of big fish? i know out at pigeon you used to be able to catch a limit of 30 perch over 12 inches in a hour or two. now your allowed 5 over 10 inches and it takes all day.

Originally Posted by mud slug

hey guys i know we are talking about catch and releaseing big pike, and i agree with releaseing the spawners to help keep the pike numbers strong. but just wondering if that refers to other fish as well. are we not hurting the pearch population by keeping the bigger ones? or the burbot pops by keeping limits of big fish? i know out at pigeon you used to be able to catch a limit of 30 pearch over 12 inches in a hour or two. now your allowed 5 over 10 inches and it takes all day.

Well I think like they were saying with perch being lower on the food chain, obviously there is a lot more of them in the lake than there is large pike. Not too sure about burbot as I don't fish for them much. Only place I fish for perch is cow lake and sometimes sylvan.

[wildman]

quote;
"Another good contribution packhuntr. Wildman, seriously, you're targeting me and doing no good here. Why don't you help to be part of the solution. And again, stop comparing hunting to fishing, you can't."

- first, wow. you must have been exposed to lots of oil fumes or something way up in the tundra hey??? this whole mess was started by YOU targetting OTHERS!!!!!!

- second, i AM being part of the solution by pointing out how wrong YOU are!!!

- third, i already stated my points about how killing animals by hunting is EXACTLY like killing animals by fishing. I CAN compare the two quite easily...YOU can't...

this thread was started because you constantly b!tch at people doing the same thing YOU DO...kill animals to eat...
you can't expect people to respect your opinions when you don't respect others...

wildman, explain to me how comparing fishing vs hunting makes sense.

How many deer are you legally allowed to harvest per year?
How many offspring do they produce annually?
How big of an area is their environment compared to the water bodies in Alberta?

How many people hunt vs fish, I bet the number of fisherman in this province heavily outweigh the hunters due to the fact that you dont require anything other then the fishing license.

Let me explain to you why it makes zero sense.

You are legally allowed to harvest hundreds of trophy fish per year.
Your limit counts per day, not per season. I can go and take a 40 plus number pike for everyday of the season.

Do you know what a mature female pike spawns out in a year?

[nekred]

Catch and release is something that has evolved over time. Can you imagine 100 years ago in Alberta you only released the fish that were not worth eating.

Fishing for consumption is part of the natural order.

When was the last time you saw an eagle or a rizzly intentionally release a fish, and fished only for the enjoyment.

Catch and Release is only a simulation of the whole experience of angling. It has become a purist sport. You know catch and release deer hunting had huge opposition a year ago!

Climbing on the self-righteous high horse does not do any good for our sport, for our unity or for our well being.

Do what you do legally and move on.

Tundra give your head a shake and realise we all have the legal riht to catch and keep. If you are that concerned about it how about you just stop fishing altogether. the day mat come when you hook a fish very deep and mortally wound it and it will die....without being consumed by an angler.

Now explain to me how catch and release is far more natural..... Show me in history why there would be a cause for catching and releasing perfectly edible fish!.... Oh and Good Luck!

[walley]

Great posts Nekred & Wildman!

Originally Posted by nekred

Catch and release is something that has evolved over time. Can you imagine 100 years ago in Alberta you only released the fish that were not worth eating.

Fishing for consumption is part of the natural order.

When was the last time you saw an eagle or a rizzly intentionally release a fish, and fished only for the enjoyment.

Catch and Release is only a simulation of the whole experience of angling. It has become a purist sport. You know catch and release deer hunting had huge opposition a year ago!

Climbing on the self-righteous high horse does not do any good for our sport, for our unity or for our well being.

Do what you do legally and move on.

Tundra give your head a shake and realise we all have the legal riht to catch and keep. If you are that concerned about it how about you just stop fishing altogether. the day mat come when you hook a fish very deep and mortally wound it and it will die....without being consumed by an angler.

Now explain to me how catch and release is far more natural..... Show me in history why there would be a cause for catching and releasing perfectly edible fish!.... Oh and Good Luck!

Catch and release is as if you were not there, and keeping fish is not. I have already mortally hooked fish and in that case I have had to keep them to eat. I am not saying there is anything bad about keeping fish, it just needs to be regulated and spawning fish should be left to do what they do.

100 years ago when they fished with bamboo and string?

As I recall, they didnt have stuff like like depth/fishfinders, downriggers, outboards, super-braid lines, underwater cameras, 1000's of lures to chose from, graphite comp rods, planer mast/boards, dipsys, GPS mapping/marking.....I think you get my point.

Fishing with these items is for the most part, not part of the natural order.

Not to forget about the population explosion in the last 20 years and the extreme pressure being applied to the water bodies.

Look at it this way, these fish have been around for thousands of years.
We have managed to deplete a large amount of lakes in the last 20 years....forcing the government to open up stocking programs.

Incase you didnt realize this, stocked fish dont reproduce for the most part.
Those fisheries are now destroyed.

Im not sure why you guys make the couple of us on here out to be like PETA members or fish nazis . Iam all for a great shore lunch. All we are talking about is some responsibility towards the fishery that we share. Tundra isnt talking about releasing all fish, as he has pointed out a FEW times....he shares the common goal of a having a decent fishery for the next 100 plus years to share with our kids and grandkids.

If you guys cant understand this, god help Albertas few remaining natural lakes. This is the only province I have visited that shares this bogus
attitude towards selective C&R.

Nekred, your opinion is much the same as the natives in Ontario and Quebec.
They feel that because their ancestors harvested fish for their tribe that THEY should share that right in 2008. So there they are......out in 50k fishing boats with gill nets, totally destroying the natural walleye population.

Anyways, im out to enjoy a smoke.
The government says its legal so it must be ok to smoke

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I couldnt agree with you anymore , I love fishing , even if I dont catch fish thats fine , but im a firm beleaver if your not ganna eat it throw it back take a few pictures and toss it back responsibly , I hate seeing nothing more then watching guys throw walleye like a damn football , It angers , me and im not affraid to write down your license plate and call you in to the fish cops . If you want to get a mounting of your fish get it done in fiberglass , that way it lasts forever where as if you get a skin mount they fade and crack after time. Im not telling you folks what to do were all adults here so do what you think is right and we will have fishing for years to come.

[bearbait]

hey john.....how much ice is on wabamun...can a guy get the boat out there yet or is there still alot of ice out there??
thanks
rob

[packhuntr]

Ok boys, i got digging through my old esox angler and musky hunter mags. I found an article that Pete Maina wrote in the summer 2005, Esox Angler, Volume 6 issue 3.......Straight from the page.

There are many issues surrounding catch and release fishing. What we mainly cover in this column is the how, with a little bit of why now and then. One issue we havent spent alot of time on is mandatory release-proactive reulations that require release of all fish, a majority of fish, certain size-structure ranges in a fish species etc.

There are many variables-each species and fishery with its own unique conditions-that play a role as to where and how special regs should be established. A total catch and release in many cases is not nessesary or preferable. Often selective harvest is the way to go with many species. And even with a species like Esox Masquinongy, at the top of the food chain, in some waters it could be best to purposely harvest some fish. It all boils down to each individual water's makeup. State wide or provincial regulations dont cut it. And this is why we have folks called fisheries specialists who monitor such things and therefore, we hope, make the correct management calls.

In a very basic sense, protecting certain species of fish from overharvest becomes more important as we move to larger fish, farther up the food chain(and therefore to fish occuring in the lowest densities), and as we move farther north (where fish grow slower) and it becomes less and less feasible to replenish fisheries artificially via stocking. When we are talking about slow growing fish like pike or muskies, or a big fish species twice as slow growing like a lake trout, the time required to rebound from over harvest is measured in decades.

Proactive fisheries management is important. This means protecting a tremendous resource. Sadly, to this day, regulations are reactive in many places. This means things got all screwed up....fisheries got damaged....to the point of angling interest diminishing or flat out ending.....And then there is "reaction" with protective regulations, stocking possibly, but sadly its too late. It takes time to fix things.

We felt it important to offer a success story of proactive management here. It works, and it works in all aspects. Its smart!! I can only hope that more folks will take notice of the simple fact that quality fishing is what everyone wants. There are folks who still vehemently rally against proactive regulations (however, they still desire quality fishing). The most popular and pollitically correct arguments heard repeatedly are "its a tradition" and we need to "get kids into fishing". Of course kids are a great excuse on the surface (stories of the poor kid "having" to release his first or biggest fish virtually ruining the childs psyche- an event likely to be the sole cause for a life of video games, drugs and trouble with the law), but the reality is Ive never met a kid who was against catch and release. Usually, when the reasoning behind catch and release is explained, the opposite reaction is far more likely. The messenger is the problem. Kids, even more so than adults, like to watch their bobber go down rather than stare at a floating one on a "keep all you want" water. They want to catch big fish. Positive things happen when we learn and adapt....I dont believe using "tradition" as a reason to halt this process makes much sense. Esox Angler.

Keep a strain on er. pack....

"State wide or provincial regulations dont cut it"

"There are folks who still vehemently rally against proactive regulations (however, they still desire quality fishing). "

[Drano]

Originally Posted by buckmaster

thank you walley!!!

Thanks Walleye.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by bearbait

hey john.....how much ice is on wabamun...can a guy get the boat out there yet or is there still alot of ice out there??
thanks
rob

theres still quite a bit of ice , I pulled my boat across the ice and put it in the water , but its pretty iffy to do , when we were there thursday the ice had melted about another 2 feet closer to shore in the 10 hours we were there .but as far as driving on I wouldnt , We watched some moron in a big dodge 3500 drive on and the second his tires were on icethe ice broke and was in water .

[fish_fanatic]

Omg, you men bicker like old ladies.. and they say we are bad... hmmmmm

People are going to do what they want to do anyhow.. You can sit here and talk until you are blue in the face and in the end, people will still go out and do what they want to do.

I think there are very valid points on both ends of the spectrum here, but I also think that you all just need to take a deep breath and count to ten. Just because you are posting something on the internet and you are fighting back and forth like little boys in the sandbox, doesn't mean you are going to change anything or have any impact what so ever. You all just keep butting heads and it's getting pretty ridiculous. Everyone has their own opinion and they have the right to express their opinions however, there comes a time when it becomes too much...

I think it's great that you are trying to bring an awareness to the affects that Non C&R is having on the fisheries however, as long as the law allows people to keep the fish, they are going to do just that. They have that right to exercise the law and bearing that in mind, you aren't going to influence anyones opinions on this matter by trying to cram information down their throats. As I stated above, in the end people are going to do what the want no matter what anyone else says....ie. poachers

Before any of ya'll starts thinking that I'm some evil poacher or keep every fish I have ever caught........ I have never kept one single fish in my life... I like to be able to go back to the same spot year after year and know that there are still fish worth my time there... It saddens me when I see teenagers killing everything they catch, no matter what size it is... and even worse.... people leaving their garbage on the banks or in the water... Perhaps awareness should be brought into light for those individuals? Everyone has an influence on the fisheries, not just people keeping bigger fish!!


Instead of targeting a select group of people who are obeying the law, look at the bigger picture... Tunnel vision isn't going to solve the problem..
You may not agree with people keeping the big scores however, there are worse people out there... I'd like to whack the ones that I see leave their garbage on the shores or purposely chuck it in the water cause they are tooo damn lazy, in the head with a rod.. Perhaps it will snap some sense into them!!


K