tundra- c&r on fish

Thanks packhuntr.
Iam shocked at how many people share the same views, its a good thing although Iam also shocked at how few will speak up when the time comes.

I cant believe you guys would compare deer to fish.

[Lethalconnection]

Originally Posted by KyleM

I cant believe you guys would compare deer to fish.

Im with you 100% when people compare fish to deer i just shake my head and wonder what the heck they are thinkin.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Well I posted the info , now contact them people if Ted morton doesnt reply let Ed stelmach know as its government rule for him to respond .

[packhuntr]

BIGBADJOHN, is that nessesarily the answer????? If we need a bunch more laws to protect our beloved resources from ourselves, the very ones that claim to love it so much, and the very ones that are always chiming up about how we have to pass the outdoors to the next generation, then she sure doesnt say much of the ideals of the ones spouting off about passing more laws...... It starts with here, us and now. Im not waiting for someone to pass law before i get it straight in my head and try to make a difference. What of it????

keep a strain on er.

So looks like Im not the only one ducking work right now?

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I sapose so

[pencapchew]

so what biologist told you guys this info about big pike? and why are there still big pike? not long ago you where allowed 10 as a limit, show me some studies on this and i would belive you more, rather then thinking your just some guy that "thinks" he knows what is best.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Oh god here we go agian another argument , Yes I want our waters to be protected for upcoming generations of people who wanna catch the big fish we have now in days.

I dont have time to scan the whack of research that has been done....maybe in a couple hours when I get home from work.
They are on the net, go look for yourself. This is not something thats
up in the air, its fact. The only ones who dispute it are the ones who
dont wish to change their ways.

Originally Posted by mudkid

Great Info BIGBADJOHN

X2 I'll be sending some more letters and emails. Great thing you are on here bud!

Originally Posted by Deano

I know I have said some things over the past week against Tundra, but I feel his intentions are definitely good. The problem is in the delivery, he hangs his curveball . When you are dealing with peolple, especially younger ones, it is best to say as many positive things as possible. That way when it comes time to say something negative they will listen to you. If you start communicating with someone and start with negativity the will probably tell you to go *^%&* yourself.
Biggest problem with open forums is people seem to be willing to express their anger. But can't find the time to tell someone "goodjob". That is why there is one board that is so much better than the others.

Hey thanks Deano. I know nothing angers me more but I am trying to congragulate people on the catch at least.

ChrisK, thanks for the info. Glad we have another person concerned about the conservation of our fisheries.

Originally Posted by BrainTan

Tundra buck, the people you have written emails to are hoping you are just venting, don't take no for an answer and you may find your voice means something!

Thanks Brain, it's just getting a little frustrating that's all. I will keep trying.

Originally Posted by wildman

TUNDRA,
you are being hypocritical in several ways;
first, with a handle like "tundrabuck" i'm betting you blast holes into many, many deers per year.
so it's ok to off mamals but not fish???
second, if you were really worried about the fish stocks, you wouldn't fish at all ever!!!
it's impossible to fish for a day without stressing and injuring a few fish.
all hooks injure fish. be it a cut in the lip or a damaged gill, or a mortally swallowed hook and every time you fight a fish, you stress and exhaust it.
sounds like you either have to quit fishing and hunting completely or quit preaching to law abiding people who are doing the same thing you are...killing wildlife for consumption.
my $0.02. gw

I don't see how I'm being hypocritical. Like I and others have said before, you can't compare hunting to fishing, you can say what you want but your "$0.02" doesn't matter to me on that one. And wow, talk about prejudice? Just because of my handle. Well if you even had a clue you'd know that I got my handle because I used to work in the Tundra on petroleum engineering projects, and we would see a lot of bucks. No we didn't slaughter them like you think, do you even hunt? My sons and I harvest few deer, but this is irrelevant to the tasks at hand right now. I never said fishing isn't going to stress or injure fish, that's common sense. I'm not out there killing wildlife for consumption, thats what we call SUSTENANCE hunters and fishers. You need to partake in these activities to survive... I hunt and fish for the sport. I do hunt for the meat as well but I dont have to go out "killing wildlife" as you so abruptly put it to survive. When I'm hunting, I love to be out in nature and enjoying life's simle pleasures. Same idea with fishing, I love watching people have the thrill of catching a fish and, well at least my take on it is, there is something wrong with keeping some fish. Note the SOME. I have no problem with that, I even keep fish sometimes, but in lakes where spawning occurs, I keep fish that don't affect that, ie: right around legal-sized pike, and even then I don't keep many. I'm not preaching to anyone. Why don't you quit hunting and fishing wildman? Because you enjoy it? Riiiiight. Same as I. Going shopping and to movies just doesn't cater to me, I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by bearbait

wow...tundra not pokin at you but was stating my opinion tryin not to steal other threads...i agree to some extent with you as well...but.....i like to keep the odd big one as well...im not always going to let a 6 pound rainbow go or a 10 pound walleye, not to mention a 30 pound jack.....you se what im getting at...lets just leave our best comments when we are lucky enough to see others pics....if you want change alberta fish and game ass. is great way to make a differance...we got the age to hunt with rifle lowered....finaly....
rob

Yah I did kind of hijack a thread didn't I? Like I said there's nothing wrong with keeping some fish just be careful about what age and maturity they are if there is even a spawn occurring in that such water.

packuntr thanks for everythng you've provided so far and educating the uneducated wildman over there on hunting genetics. Compare a large land mass of genetics to a small water mass of genetics.

Pencapchew, Kyle has research he can give to you. Instead of challenging everything without knowing the facts, you're also just some guy who thinks he knows best, and especially you, quite a bit of arrogance is being displayed on your part.

Again thanks guys, deer and fish populations can't be compared, sure argue it but they can't, it is biologically impossible.

..

Iam working on writing up a little something here....
Might be awhile!

[Lethalconnection]

Originally Posted by KyleM

Iam working on writing up a little something here....
Might be awhile!

Is it gunna have pages i can flip through?

[packhuntr]

Oh man, dont make it too long....Sounding out the words sucks. Mabey put in some pictures

[thumper]

IMO the best way to get hunting/fishing regulations changed is to join a hunting/fishing club that's affiliated with the Alberta Fish & Game Association (most are - check out the AFGA web site to find one close to you).

Attend the local club meetings and raise the issue there. If you can get them on board, then the club executive will make the recommendation to the AFGA executive, the membership votes on it and if accepted to move forward, the AFGA will in turn make the recommendation to the government at their annual meeting.

If the government sees that a majority of the largest sportsman group in Alberta is behind a resolution - they are apt to act upon it. Particularly if it doesn't affect other 'stakeholders' (such as landowners or cattlemen).

That's exactly how most of the fish & wildlife regulations get changed in this province - NOT by individual letter writing campaigns. (Well, that and being cosy with the premier and his ministers)

I realize that this represents a lot of time and effort, particularly for you impatient 'younger fellas', but that's how to make democracy work for you.

[Gordoats26]

Originally Posted by wildman

TUNDRA,
you are being hypocritical in several ways;
first, with a handle like "tundrabuck" i'm betting you blast holes into many, many deers per year.
so it's ok to off mamals but not fish???
second, if you were really worried about the fish stocks, you wouldn't fish at all ever!!!
it's impossible to fish for a day without stressing and injuring a few fish.
all hooks injure fish. be it a cut in the lip or a damaged gill, or a mortally swallowed hook and every time you fight a fish, you stress and exhaust it.
sounds like you either have to quit fishing and hunting completely or quit preaching to law abiding people who are doing the same thing you are...killing wildlife for consumption.
my $0.02. gw

I dont belive he its keeping the odd fish that is the problem its keeping the big spawners that is the problem. You cant compair Deer Conservation to Fish conservation i belive it is worse for the deer heard to kill the does then the big bucks. with fish the big ones you catch are usualy the big females it seems alot of people take the fisheries for granted to me?

[Canuck44]

In Barry Mitchells "Alberta Trout Highway" it says that 6-10" (3-5year old) trout produce 92% of the eggs. For this reason I don't feel at all bad about keeping a nice 16" cutty for the pan, they are only responsible for a very small percentage of the eggs and if I don't eat it, it is quite likely that it will die of old age.

I know that this thread seems to be about pike but are pike similar to trout where the small fish are responsible for the majority of the egg production? Does anyone have any published info on this? If so please provide info on it as I would be interested in reading it.

Originally Posted by Canuck44

In Barry Mitchells "Alberta Trout Highway" it says that 6-10" (3-5year old) trout produce 92% of the eggs. For this reason I don't feel at all bad about keeping a nice 16" cutty for the pan, they are only responsible for a very small percentage of the eggs and if I don't eat it, it is quite likely that it will die of old age.

I know that this thread seems to be about pike but are pike similar to trout where the small fish are responsible for the majority of the egg production? Does anyone have any published info on this? If so please provide info on it as I would be interested in reading it.

Canuck, that'll vary between waters and species. Trout are quite different. The way I see it, if it's a stocked put and take lake fine, that's what the fish are there for. I wouldn't kill cuthroats for two reasons,

the first being that the streams I fish that boast them don't allow you to do such, and the second thing is they are pretty wild, i know they have been stocked in some areas but they are wild native fish. I'm not so sure 6 - 10" rainbows are the egg-producers, but that is more than likely the case with cutthroats on particular waters.

[Canuck44]

Originally Posted by TundraBuck

Canuck, that'll vary between waters and species. Trout are quite different. The way I see it, if it's a stocked put and take lake fine, that's what the fish are there for. I wouldn't kill cuthroats for two reasons,

the first being that the streams I fish that boast them don't allow you to do such, and the second thing is they are pretty wild, i know they have been stocked in some areas but they are wild native fish. I'm not so sure 6 - 10" rainbows are the egg-producers, but that is more than likely the case with cutthroats on particular waters.

If you haven't read this book I would reccomend it, it is a good read and while I would not say it is the gospel it is the best all around book I have read on trout fishing in Alberta.

I don't mind keeping the occasional cutty as hybridization is what is threatening them here not overfishing.

But back to Pike, any literature on this subject?

Heres a little something that I found interesting.
Im gathering a bunch of info and gonna post it in a
seperate thread..


http://www.canada.com/topics/technol...f91bb3&k=71820

[walley]

I can't believe that a person who is doing nothing illegal by keeping a fish or two for whatever reason (either for the meat or a mount-a fish of a lifetime), gets crucified on this and other message boards. These people shouldn't have to get raked over the coals for this.

If you guys who are whining about keeping these fish don't want to keep any, good for you. I never kept any fish last year but I don't criticize people who do. If you want to do something constructive why don't you guys put pressure on the government to stop commercial netting. I have seen the 20-35 pounders come into a buddy's butcher shop from the commercial fishermen. Sportsfishermen don't even come close to the carnage on our fisheries that commercial netters do. Give it a rest and keep your thoughts to yourself!

[Bogman10]

Originally Posted by mudkid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI17VTOj5sA

My buddies just got back from Cuba, they didn't fish... boy did they miss out!

[buckmaster]

Originally Posted by walley

I can't believe that a person who is doing nothing illegal by keeping a fish or two for whatever reason (either for the meat or a mount-a fish of a lifetime), gets crucified on this and other message boards. These people shouldn't have to get raked over the coals for this.

If you guys who are whining about keeping these fish don't want to keep any, good for you. I never kept any fish last year but I don't criticize people who do. If you want to do something constructive why don't you guys put pressure on the government to stop commercial netting. I have seen the 20-35 pounders come into a buddy's butcher shop from the commercial fishermen. Sportsfishermen don't even come close to the carnage on our fisheries that commercial netters do. Give it a rest and keep your thoughts to yourself!

thank you walley!!!

[Bogman10]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Tundra, Kylem, i hear ya......Before coming onto this forum a couple years ago, i tried hard to explain these very things to my friends and acquaintences. We have to push the envelope on this one, even if its just how we do things when we are in the outdoors. It angers me as well that everything ive done in the last 5 years, for example, practicing C&R, not enjoying a winter pike in the pan etc, can be trumped in one day by a group of half a dozen clowns out to "fill the larder". Ive witnessed guys at late ice slamming big hens, and the first thing you will see come out is the club.....Its sad. They dont realize, afew guys who really know what they are doing, can LEGALLY knock one of our lakes on its azz for years by removing these big fish. These are predators, they are supposed to have the lowest numbers in the system, but by over harvest of big ones, weve stunted most pike fisheries, and flooded them with small fish. Our lakes will never produce the fish of the past. My only prayr when i finished getting an azz chewing like you are getting now, is that these are all old fisherman posting, and hopefully these attitudes are gonna die with them soon.

keep a strain on er.

I agree with you 100% , besides put the big ones back gives you a chance to catch them again! I will sign any petition that limits you to only medium sized fish and keeping the big breeders in the water. Med ones taste better!

[Bogman10]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Oh man, dont make it too long....Sounding out the words sucks. Mabey put in some pictures

that was funny!!!lol

[FisherPotch]

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread to much by bringing another fish species into perspective. But how come there wasn't so much bit**n and mudslinging a few weeks back when fellows like my self or lethal are keeping good hauls of tasty burbots???????? It doesn't mean that we are against maintaining our fisheries.

Pike are fun to catch when they are big but they arn't fun to eat when there huge and that makes the scenario different. Having a good pic or replica made up is a good way to go about it and i'd even say the most ethical way. So Kudos to the C&R guys. There is no doubt in my mind that C&R is beter for the fisheries. But as long as guys are within the law your limited to trying to change the law. Or trying to rub good habits off on the fellows around. Good on ya for trying to persway people away from the "the dark side" over run by fish killing "storm troopers"!! But if i can get my hand on a 10 lb + Walleye from waters where i can legally keep them "I am your father"!!

I catch and release eye's likley in the four didget range every year. Likely keep between 6 and 10 eye's a year. SO SHOOT ME!!!!!!

All i'm saying is that if your going to get all uptight about it maybe the focus should be directed to all species and not biased towards pike or walleye. Burbot may be a 10 limit now but give it time and that could easily change into a low limit or a minimum size sorta scenario.

I feel that you boys preaching that the big hens are the key spawners are fully correct when it comes down to it especially for the pike. I'd agree that a slot size may be beter for some of our lakes. We realy just need to keep in mind that these people are trying to do a good job of maintaining our fisheries and it isn't an easy job. They are also underfunded at best. The best we can do is utilize contacts that BIGBADJOHN has provided or be highly involved in fish and game.

I think tundra has very good intensions with what he is saying and some of us just need to keep in mind that it is often hard to develop tone when posting. He's not telling us what we have to do, he's just trying to influence us for the beter with his ethics. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though. It's up to you weather you listen to someone else's. I think we can all learn from eachother and listening to others opinions or experiences is the only way to learn. Just my 2 cents.

[Chris K]

Our fisheries management forces people to fish certain lakes if they want to retain walleye. This concentrates hordes of people at lakes they can keep fish, and the populations and year classes take a beating. The province manages for quantity not quality, and for catch rates...not quality of catch. Honestly, I can't believe people that think Lesser Slave is an awesome fishery. It pales in comparison to what it once was, and the regulations have destroyed year classes big fish in very short periods of time. The regulations also lead to decimation of baitfish in many of these lakes, and the quality of other fish goes down as the biomass of large fish goes up and eats itself out of house and home and you get lots of skinny fish that bite like crazy, and that is considered good fishing? How many larger lakes in the province really have quality perch fisheries? Or how many lakes have healthy populations (and contain larger fish, and you have the REAL possability of catching 12" perch, or a 25 pound pike, and a 10 pound walleye, or a 3 pound whitefish) of perch, whitefish, pike and walleye? I can think of quite a few elsewhere, but not many in Alberta, and these lakes I can think of will be in serious trouble in years to come as the current mamagement practices turn "quality fishing" lakes into good "quality opportunity" lakes. People pressure these lakes so hard as they have the best angling opportunities as others decline and become not as good as they once were, and the cycle repeats itself until we have more fish in every lake than we know what to do with. Then someday each lake is overrun with skinny walleye and pike and not a decent perch to be caught. Take Lac La Nonne for example...or Lac Ste Anne...and these are lakes we can not retain walleyes on. The biomass on these lakes can only support so much growth, and when they keep spawning and successfully reproducing without any predators (or humans removing fish) they eat themselves out of house and home, and don't get really big either. At South Buck a three pound walleye is a very big one, and it's rare to catch a walleye over 21.5 inches. They get to the legal size, and they are kept immediately if caught. Yes there you can only keep one per day, but posession is three so at the end of a long weekend, people all kept three walleyes each, and the lake took a pounding. I fish as much as anyone in the summer, and I go to other provinces a lot because of the angling opportunites and quality of fishing. There are some very effective ways to manage fisheries that could be implemented here...but convincing the powers that be that there are better ways is a very difficult task. Chris K

[FisherPotch]

Most certainly a lot of knowlege behind your statements Chris. Our lakes need to be managed on more of an individual basis with quality in mind because so many lakes contain quantity of stunted fish. Personaly I think that they are way too underfunded to put bioligists on every fishery but they could do a beter job if they thought like yourself or many others on the board.

We could likely learn from other provinces to.

I also think that too much time and money is focused on too few lakes also. Prime example Pigeon, damn near the only lake they pay any attention too.

C&R is most certainly a part of our future if we want to build quality.

Hard province to manage with so many anglers focused on so few lakes. I think the fish stalking program (also underfunded) should put some time and money into fish other than bows too. Stock a lake with just perch or eyes with tones of food for them to eat and that may take some attention and pressure off a few other lakes.

[Mudder Man]

Check out this Bad Girl i caught at Gull Lake this past Hardwater season. Was a great catch and a even better release. She is off to make 1,000s more for us to catch.

Mudder

[SNAPFisher]

Holy carp mudder!! That is a hen alright. What a fatty! Congrats on that great catch.