My lake ice safety thread

[PlayDoh]

Originally Posted by lovich12

This comment is silly. The bridge at Mcgregor and the north east end of Travers are 2 completely different water bodies. As well as 2 completely different scenario's. .

That's laughable. Their connected genius. In fact it would be hard to find two bodies of water that were more alike. Their fed from the same source, similar depths and size, and separated by a km. One could argue their the same water body.
Man, some people argue anything in order to defend their actions.
We haven't had one day of -30 and only a few of -20 or less. Do you think that water would be open if the winter wasn't this mild? Also I did state, to be clear and avoid defending my post from this, that it wasn't open from the weather alone. Why state the obvious, when I've already stated it? Especially when that's your only point.

[lovich12]

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

That's laughable. Their connected genius. In fact it would be hard to find two bodies of water that were more alike. Their fed from the same source, similar depths and size, and separated by a km. One could argue their the same water body.
Man, some people argue anything in order to defend their actions.
We haven't had one day of -30 and only a few of -20 or less. Do you think that water would be open if the winter wasn't this mild? Also I did state, to be clear and avoid defending my post from this, that it wasn't open from the weather alone. Why state the obvious, when I've already stated it? Especially when that's your only point.

Instead of derailing the OP, I would be more than happy, if you were to PM me so we can talk about this further/ share stories!!

[PlayDoh]

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by anthony5

No luck involved, just have been doing this for a few years and would not knowingly put myself or others in an unsafe position on a frozen lake. 15" of good ice on the northeast arm of Travers north of the spillway for anyone inquiring.

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

At the 'bridge' across the south end of McGregor there's open water. That's only a couple KM's from where you were.
I know it's not open from just warm weather, but it still shows how the ice isn't much more than the minimum thickness.
It's like rope. There's a safe working load and a braking load weight. Would you stand under a heavy load that was anywhere above the safe working load?
There's lots of things you can "get away with" that just aren't safe. Safe as in your almost without a doubt not getting hurt.
I've done my fair share of unsafe things so I'm not pointing fingers here. I've found its better to ask yourself what the Risk vs Reward is. What do you really gain by driving on the ice? If something did happen would you kick yourself for not playing it safe?
This is one of those years where the risk is real.

Originally Posted by lovich12

This comment is silly. The bridge at Mcgregor and the north east end of Travers are 2 completely different water bodies. As well as 2 completely different scenario's. The bridge at Mcgregor has a current running through it. There IS NO CURRENT running through the northeast end of Travers, this time of year.

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

That's laughable. Their connected genius. In fact it would be hard to find two bodies of water that were more alike. Their fed from the same source, similar depths and size, and separated by a km. One could argue their the same water body.
Man, some people argue anything in order to defend their actions.
We haven't had one day of -30 and only a few of -20 or less. Do you think that water would be open if the winter wasn't this mild? Also I did state, to be clear and avoid defending my post from this, that it wasn't open from the weather alone. Why state the obvious, when I've already stated it? Especially when that's your only point.

PlayDoh, you should look at a map before using your condescending tone.

Yes, you are right in that there is normally open water under the bridge going over McGregor. But the north east arm of Travers (where the spillway is) IS NOT part of McGregor. It is not a "few KM's" from the Hwy 531 bridge.

If you'd like to argue this, please provide a map with arrows pointing out where you believe the two locations are.


And sorry, but when it comes to what some government document says is safe vs experience, I'll take the experience. But that's just me...

[anthony5]

Jet, maybe you should read a little more of the info that is in this thread already. I am not alone in understanding how to read the ice in a certain area, and luck nor ego plays any part. Good luck fishing😎

[MoFugger21]

Actually Playdoh, I'll provide you the map. Looks like more than a "few KMs" to me...

[Talking moose]

I will take the word of the guy that has been fishing the lake for the last 40 years over some snot nose kid fresh from skool who just finished crunching some numbers.

[Rage.0]

Originally Posted by Jet

Not my experience, the government, engineers and years of experience by qualified people.

So yes you do risk yours and others safety and are
aware of that and will continue to do so. You will ignore all educated recommendations done by structural engineers who's job it is to help keep you safe, because it's irrelevant and your 40 years of experience trump that, you
know best.

It's precisely this self denial which is the reason so many vehicles have ended up through the ice. They've been lucky to date, so they think they know best.
Then when they fall through, the wise ones never travel on ice again in a vehicle, because they realize they got it wrong.

Ultimately physics, doesn't care about you, your ego or your experience.
Let's hope you can get out in time, and don't take anyone else down with you.

Good and qualified information is out there, it's your choice to ignore it. I hope your good fortune continues.

Government/Engineers? Really????.....I'm sure most of us here have dealt with "engineers" a time or two. Don't they just hop off a boat from India or China and declare themselves "engineers"????. And the government, ...really...I imagine you voted orange. Your calculations hold no value because they are simply that, numbers that you found on a Wikipedia search. Your comments hold no merit, because you have no experience to back it up.(waiting for bs story...) Please for the love of all things decent, shut up.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Jet

Hardly some snot nosed kid fresh from "school":

http://norexice.com/
Sam Proskin, NOR-EX Ice Engineering Inc. P.Eng, Ph.D
Al Fitzgerald, NOR-EX Ice Engineering Inc. P.Eng
Combined, that's over 100 years of experience, 3 engineering degrees and a
Ph.D. + the numerous other experienced people involved in creating that
document.

Norexice are also responsible for a number large contracts related to ice safety.

But you'd actually have to read the document to learn that wouldn't you.

The guy who has 40 years experience in this case, over estimates and believes it's okay to fit as many heavy vehicles in a small piece of ice as he can and doesn't have any qualification apart from his experience.

Over the period of 1991 to 2000, there were 447 deaths associated with activities on ice. Of these, 246 involved snowmobiles, 150 involved non-motorized activity and 51 motorized vehicles. Most of the deaths associated with activities on ice were related to recreational activities. (Canadian Red Cross Society 2006). - And that doesn't count the number of vehicles lost and injuries.

Don't make yourself or others a statistic. (well definitely not others).
And consider the impact those deaths have had on the families and friends.
The resources are there, read em, it may safe your life one day.

No ice is ever safe, but there are ways to be as safe a possible and overloading it isn't one of them.

The guy who puts his head in the lion cage, prods it with a stick and thinks it safe, will probably learn one day it's a dumb thing to do. His experience tells him he hasn't been eaten yet, so it's safe, his ego is reinforced by during a dangerous thing and beating the odds. But the Lion don't care about that, he's just hungry.

Those deaths you quoted were "on" the ice. Not "under" the ice.

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by Jet

...
No ice is ever safe, but there are ways to be as safe a possible and overloading it isn't one of them.
...

You want to be as safe as possible, never go onto the ice. Problem solved. Actually, never leave your house. Good grief...

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Rage.0

Government/Engineers? Really????.....I'm sure most of us here have dealt with "engineers" a time or two. Don't they just hop off a boat from India or China and declare themselves "engineers"????. And the government, ...really...I imagine you voted orange. Your calculations hold no value because they are simply that, numbers that you found on a Wikipedia search. Your comments hold no merit, because you have no experience to back it up.(waiting for bs story...) Please for the love of all things decent, shut up.

I am an engineer and I have dealt with guys like yourselves far too many times...

Just cause you can do something and get away with it doesn't mean it is safe... You can probably drive your truck on 6-8 inches of ice, you are stupid to do so though and even if it holds you the first 6 times you are still stupid every time you do it again... Just like parking 3 trucks side by side on 17 inches of ice as another poster stated was safe... It worked but don't make a habit of it and definitely don't try to tell less experienced anglers/individuals on here that it is safe...

There are things called safety factors and they are built into every calculation. How much of a safety factor is needed is determined by whatever is being calculated or determined. In the case of ice thickness you need a very high safety factor because there are so many things that can affect it. Snow/slush in ice, air bubbles in ice, ice thickness variations, flood water effects, weight of snow on top of ice and much much more... If I had to guess there is probably a safety factor close to 5 times in the average ice calculation.

Now if some of you "geniuses" don't think that you need that much of a safety factor and are fine living closer to the edge then go ahead but do us a favour and don't drive anywhere near us other people that actually understand and know why a person shouldn't push the limits...

And as stated earlier do not post your false statements of what is safe. There are far more experienced and knowledgeable individuals on the subject and they are the ones that determined the ice safety thickness charts/pamphlets etc...

4 inches for walking, 6 for quad/snowmobile, 8 for light car, 12-15 for full size truck(depending on weight). That is for a single vehicle moving at slow speeds and parking by itself.

Most of our lakes this year barely have 15 inches of ice yet people are driving everywhere and parking multiple vehicles beside each other all over the place. There were a number of vehicles go through the ice this year as well as past years and many of them were guys doing what they have always done... You push your limits long enough and eventually the lake will swallow you up...

Now do us all a favour and if you don't want to provide actual factual information on the subject then it is you that should please "shut up"...

[PlayDoh]

Originally Posted by MoFugger21

Actually Playdoh, I'll provide you the map. Looks like more than a "few KMs" to me...

Wow, you guys crack me up. Your right it's what 10-15-20 KMs? That's not a "few", that's what than? Is the water that freezes 20 KMs apart going to be really any different from each other?

Talk about condescending. Maybe read your own tone. I was defending my post from being called silly in a condescending tone, so not sure what you expected.

You can point out Semantics, and irrelevant points all you want, but if your under the impression it makes you look like anything but a troll, think otherwise.

How thick is the ice at McGregor? How thick is it on Travers? What part of my point confused you and made you feel the need to be a ***** and try to make me look foolish?

Moreover even if I was wrong and confused Keho for Travers, I'm trying to help people be safe by sharing my observations and opinions. The ice is at the minimum thickness to drive on, use caution. FFS it's not that hard to understand is it?

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by RavYak

I am an engineer and I have dealt with guys like yourselves far too many times...

Just cause you can do something and get away with it doesn't mean it is safe... You can probably drive your truck on 6-8 inches of ice, you are stupid to do so though and even if it holds you the first 6 times you are still stupid every time you do it again... Just like parking 3 trucks side by side on 17 inches of ice as another poster stated was safe... It worked but don't make a habit of it and definitely don't try to tell less experienced anglers/individuals on here that it is safe...

There are things called safety factors and they are built into every calculation. How much of a safety factor is needed is determined by whatever is being calculated or determined. In the case of ice thickness you need a very high safety factor because there are so many things that can affect it. Snow/slush in ice, air bubbles in ice, ice thickness variations, flood water effects, weight of snow on top of ice and much much more... If I had to guess there is probably a safety factor close to 5 times in the average ice calculation.

Now if some of you "geniuses" don't think that you need that much of a safety factor and are fine living closer to the edge then go ahead but do us a favour and don't drive anywhere near us other people that actually understand and know why a person shouldn't push the limits...

And as stated earlier do not post your false statements of what is safe. There are far more experienced and knowledgeable individuals on the subject and they are the ones that determined the ice safety thickness charts/pamphlets etc...

4 inches for walking, 6 for quad/snowmobile, 8 for light car, 12-15 for full size truck(depending on weight). That is for a single vehicle moving at slow speeds and parking by itself.

Most of our lakes this year barely have 15 inches of ice yet people are driving everywhere and parking multiple vehicles beside each other all over the place. There were a number of vehicles go through the ice this year as well as past years and many of them were guys doing what they have always done... You push your limits long enough and eventually the lake will swallow you up...

Now do us all a favour and if you don't want to provide actual factual information on the subject then it is you that should please "shut up"...

How very condescending and "I'm smarter than everyone" of you.....

I, and apparently others, will be the judge of what we each feel is safe on the ice.

I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that particular bodies of water that I fish, that if it's clear, hard ice, I have no issue with a couple of trucks parked close to each other with 17". I don't need yourself, Jet, or a bloody government document and a calculator to tell me if I'm being (or feel) safe. If you feel unsafe, then that is fine. Carry on.

And what the hell does shut-up mean when there are air quotes around it....?

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

Wow, you guys crack me up. Your right it's what 10-15-20 KMs? That's not a "few", that's what than? Is the water that freezes 20 KMs apart going to be really any different from each other?

When trying to compare ice under/near the causeway or "bridge" to ice in the NE arm of Travers near the spillway, yes. Yes it really is going to be that different from each other.... Your post made it sound like you thought he was fishing just south of the Lomond highway, near the open water...

[PlayDoh]

I didn't "compare" it. I just stated the fact of it. When I see open water anywhere I know it hasn't been all that cold.
The Bow River has running water, yet if it's cold enough it will freeze over. If not you will see open water.
Again I'm just sharing what I seen, so someone can make a more informed decision on their own safety.
How and why do you guys presume people are "telling you what to do"? Drive a dump truck on the lake if you want. Yet if you do so, and drive close enough to someone else, realize your putting them at risk.
Easy enough to understand here.

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

I didn't "compare" it. I just stated the fact of it. When I see open water anywhere I know it hasn't been all that cold.
The Bow River has running water, yet if it's cold enough it will freeze over. If not you will see open water.

And the fact of it is, (spoken from experience, which I guess doesn't matter around here to some....) even if there is open water under/near the Lomond causeway on McGregor, does not mean that the ice is not safe on Travers. Two COMPLETELY different scenarios/situations there.

Fact: I once saw a tiger in Calgary. Not Fact: Because I saw a tiger in Calgary, tigers must live in and around where I first saw it.

Fact: There is open water on McGregor under the causeway. Not Fact: Because there is open water on McGregor under the causeway, the ice within a 20km radium of said open water is not safe.

[PlayDoh]

Who said it wasn't safe? I give up.

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by anthony5

No luck involved, just have been doing this for a few years and would not knowingly put myself or others in an unsafe position on a frozen lake. 15" of good ice on the northeast arm of Travers north of the spillway for anyone inquiring.

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

At the 'bridge' across the south end of McGregor there's open water. That's only a couple KM's from where you were.
I know it's not open from just warm weather, but it still shows how the ice isn't much more than the minimum thickness.
It's like rope. There's a safe working load and a braking load weight. Would you stand under a heavy load that was anywhere above the safe working load?
There's lots of things you can "get away with" that just aren't safe. Safe as in your almost without a doubt not getting hurt.
I've done my fair share of unsafe things so I'm not pointing fingers here. I've found its better to ask yourself what the Risk vs Reward is. What do you really gain by driving on the ice? If something did happen would you kick yourself for not playing it safe?
This is one of those years where the risk is real.

Your reply above is in response to anthony5's post (as you had quoted it)... In this post, it sure sounds like you are saying exactly what I described in my previous post.

[PlayDoh]

I think it's time we all agree to disagree. Mud slinging only furthers the argument.

[anthony5]

Originally Posted by Jet

Well, looks like he is. And from the amount RavYak goes fishing, looks like he's successful at it too. A good job there are engineers and people who bother to educate themselves.

You wouldn't even be ice fishing, have a flasher and have the ability to put your truck through the ice or drive to the lake if it wasn't for engineers.

Bottom line, if you can't be bothered to educate yourself and ignore the information present to you, don't pretend you
know what you obviously don't, don't preach misinformation to people
with less experience, it's dangerous, infact it's life threatening.

If someone falls through the ice because you are telling him it's safe when you're unqualified, then it's your fault.

Nobody cares if you fall through the ice (except maybe your ego and family),
(Darwin award comes to mind), but when you put others at risk,
that's different. I bet you think it's acceptable to drive drunk too, because alcohol don't effect you.

Would really like to comment here but I guess my years of experience and not having studied a bunch of numbers about clear ice means nothing to some. Never have and never will put someone else's life in danger and the people I fish with know that. Comment about my on ice tactics,fine. But the rest of this post shows no class on your part whatsoever.

[Talking moose]

Fear. Healthy fear.
Fear. Unreasonable fear.
There is a line and it fluctuates on both sides.
It is what it is for each individual.
Peoples comfort zones vary.

Fire.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by MoFugger21

How very condescending and "I'm smarter than everyone" of you.....

I, and apparently others, will be the judge of what we each feel is safe on the ice.

I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that particular bodies of water that I fish, that if it's clear, hard ice, I have no issue with a couple of trucks parked close to each other with 17". I don't need yourself, Jet, or a bloody government document and a calculator to tell me if I'm being (or feel) safe. If you feel unsafe, then that is fine. Carry on.

And what the hell does shut-up mean when there are air quotes around it....?

First. You and others can be the judges of what you feel is safe FOR YOU. I don't care what you guys personally do(as long as you stay away from me and others) but don't go trying to tell other people on here that they don't need to follow general safety practices...

Second. My condescending tone is because that is the route you guys have taken to completely ignore the commonly accepted practices posted by others on here and keep trying to tell people that your poor practices are safe...

Yes if it is high quality ice 17 inches thick you probably are ok but how do you know its high quality ice? Drilling a few holes and checking 0.01% of the lakes ice quality? Unless the ice is perfectly clear and free of snow cover it is next to impossible to know for sure... And when you make statements like other people did in this thread promoting poor practices it makes people lazy and irresponsible and leads to more of the ever increasing vehicles falling through the ice each year...

The reason the ice thickness recommendations are so conservative is so that you don't get yourself into trouble by being ignorant. Most people don't know a lake like the back of their hand and know where ice might be thinner or weaker etc. Take the example I posted in the beginning of this thread of how we nearly got stuck and stranded with a quad after driving all over 90% of the lake... If we had been in a truck we would have been screwed... Even when you do everything safe and by the book driving on ice is still dangerous and that is why you need to respect the recommended safe thickness's not make up your own just because it works most of the time...

Yes there is knowledge a guy can gain and practices a guy can use to determine if a lesser amount of ice is safe enough in certain situations(such as Anthony's claims) but that overall in the big picture does not make them proper safe practices and the majority of the population should not follow those practices especially since they are not necessary...

And finally the "shut up" was actually me quoting him since he decided to be condescending and rude himself...

Now lets give this bloody topic a rest...

4 in walk on
6 in quad/snowmobile
8 in small car
12-15 full size truck

High quality ice, drive slow, spread vehicle weight out, know your lake or check ice very well(not just one hole where you drive on).

If you choose to live life on the edge then do whatever you please but remember this post when it catches up with you and lets hope you didn't kill yourself or someone else in doing so...

Nothing more to say here...

[MoFugger21]

"Shut up" everyone.

[PlayDoh]

Originally Posted by RavYak

There are things called safety factors and they are built into every calculation. How much of a safety factor is needed is determined by whatever is being calculated or determined. In the case of ice thickness you need a very high safety factor because there are so many things that can affect it. Snow/slush in ice, air bubbles in ice, ice thickness variations, flood water effects, weight of snow on top of ice and much much more... If I had to guess there is probably a safety factor close to 5 times in the average ice "...

This is what mainly caused the arguments I believe. Thanks for pointing that out.

Less than 15" of good ice is needed to support a truck. Yet since you can't analyze every bit of ice your driving on, you can know that 15" of most ice is enough and safe to travel on. That's not a guarantee you won't encounter thin ice, but if your checking the ice at intervals your most likely safe.

I wouldn't say it's all about fear, and experience doesn't effect the ice thickness. It's not fear that prevents me from putting a rope past its "safe working load" when damage or injury are at stake. I would call it responsibility.

If you feel your truck, safety and the risk to the environment isn't worthy of following guidelines set by experts, that's obviously your choice.

[Doubledroptine]

I can't even remember what this thread was about. Haha

[PlayDoh]

Originally Posted by Doubledroptine

I can't even remember what this thread was about. Haha

Oh shut up!

lol. Joking of course.

[anthony5]

Originally Posted by RavYak

First. You and others can be the judges of what you feel is safe FOR YOU. I don't care what you guys personally do(as long as you stay away from me and others) but don't go trying to tell other people on here that they don't need to follow general safety practices...

Second. My condescending tone is because that is the route you guys have taken to completely ignore the commonly accepted practices posted by others on here and keep trying to tell people that your poor practices are safe...

Yes if it is high quality ice 17 inches thick you probably are ok but how do you know its high quality ice? Drilling a few holes and checking 0.01% of the lakes ice quality? Unless the ice is perfectly clear and free of snow cover it is next to impossible to know for sure... And when you make statements like other people did in this thread promoting poor practices it makes people lazy and irresponsible and leads to more of the ever increasing vehicles falling through the ice each year...

The reason the ice thickness recommendations are so conservative is so that you don't get yourself into trouble by being ignorant. Most people don't know a lake like the back of their hand and know where ice might be thinner or weaker etc. Take the example I posted in the beginning of this thread of how we nearly got stuck and stranded with a quad after driving all over 90% of the lake... If we had been in a truck we would have been screwed... Even when you do everything safe and by the book driving on ice is still dangerous and that is why you need to respect the recommended safe thickness's not make up your own just because it works most of the time...

Yes there is knowledge a guy can gain and practices a guy can use to determine if a lesser amount of ice is safe enough in certain situations(such as Anthony's claims) but that overall in the big picture does not make them proper safe practices and the majority of the population should not follow those practices especially since they are not necessary...

And finally the "shut up" was actually me quoting him since he decided to be condescending and rude himself...

Now lets give this bloody topic a rest...

4 in walk on
6 in quad/snowmobile
8 in small car
12-15 full size truck

High quality ice, drive slow, spread vehicle weight out, know your lake or check ice very well(not just one hole where you drive on).

If you choose to live life on the edge then do whatever you please but remember this post when it catches up with you and lets hope you didn't kill yourself or someone else in doing so...

Nothing more to say here...

Maybe read what I said in my posts, never did I say that everyone should follow my lead, only what you think is safe for you, and what I think is safe for me and the people I fish with, and they have always asked for advice and trusted my judgement for certain body of water for ice fishing so get over yourself.

[lovich12]

Originally Posted by Jet

Well, looks like he is. And from the amount RavYak goes fishing, looks like he's successful at it too. A good job there are engineers and people who bother to educate themselves.

You wouldn't even be ice fishing, have a flasher and have the ability to put your truck through the ice or drive to the lake if it wasn't for engineers.

Bottom line, if you can't be bothered to educate yourself and ignore the information present to you, don't pretend you
know what you obviously don't, don't preach misinformation to people
with less experience, it's dangerous, infact it's life threatening.

If someone falls through the ice because you are telling him it's safe when you're unqualified, then it's your fault.

Nobody cares if you fall through the ice (except maybe your ego and family),
(Darwin award comes to mind), but when you put others at risk,
that's different. I bet you think it's acceptable to drive drunk too, because alcohol don't effect you.

Wow, that last comment was unnecessary. Whether it was an example or not, a pretty s****y thing to say.

As a side note, I'm curious to know, what do you think about my 3/4 ton sitting on 13" of ice today? For 5 hours? Without a crack or groan? That being said, I'm not telling people to to drive on 13" of ice, if it's not in their comfort zone.

[anthony5]

Originally Posted by Jet

What you said was:



You were referring to parking on ice, not driving.
I believe where this issue originates from is you used the following information:

https://www.cdda.ca/wp-content/uploa...MATION0011.pdf
to come up with the figure of 28902lbs as being safe.

But didn't understand that the number you quoted is:

1. A Gold constant of 7.03

2. It's Manitoba, our climate is more variable, which is why Alberta
suggests a more conservative number.

3. It's designed for ice roads, i.e. moving traffic and managed ice.
Once you park, it's a different (and much less load rating), because ice bends under weight.

Gold factor is as follows:
3.5 = Low Risk
4 = Tolerable Risk
5 = Moderate Risk
6 = Substantial Risk

But you quoted information for traveling on ice roads that are maintained and profiled, and then applied it incorrectly to parking on ice.

Hopefully what we've all learnt here is:

1. Get local knowledge from local experience (springs, gas pockets,
problematic locations, currents etc.)

2. Get information about ice thickness / weight loading and safe travel / parking from a qualified source (Alberta Works documents are about the best
breakdown to-date)

3. You need more ice to park on than you do to drive

3. Figure out the weight of your load

4. If you risk your own life, fine, we don't care

5. If you risk others by driving too close, too fast or park close,
then don't. As you can see it gets pretty heated when you endanger others,
so you are likely to be confronted about it, or worse, you could be liable.

What part of "what is good and what is not" do you not get. If you have no on ice experience how can you claim what is good and what is not. There are a lot of factors determining what is good ice and what is not. Your paper work posted is correct in some circumstances, but is not the be all end all when it comes to determining ice safety. I have not preached that my experience on the ice is the only one to believe as some posters seem to have stated. Believe what you believe and go from there. I know a lot of ice fishermen that fish the same waters that I do and have for 30 more years than I have would just shake their head at what you have been saying about what are safe minimums for ice thickness at all times. Yes you have to be careful on the ice at all times, as I have stated previously but you choose to ignore that and call me reckless. I have not gone swimming with my truck through the ice and do not plan to anytime soon. The only problem I see here is your horse is just a little too high. I appreciate your concern about ice safety but AGAIN do not tell me about what little you now about ice on a given water body at any time of the year. In this area 20 km makes a big difference when it comes to ice conditions on any given waterbody, temps can vary by 10 degrees in 20 km and wind can be from nil to 70km in this same area. Example- Keho lake + 14 and 60k winds- Travers +2 and 15k winds-Lake McGreagor + 5 and 30k winds- Badger Lake -4 and 20k winds this happens all on the same day so you need to be aware of what's going on around you on any given time of day. You can believe that it is just a matter of time before my outfit falls through the ice if you wish, but it is something that I am not interested in doing and so far my judgement on ice conditions have been correct and yes I do know the water bodies I am fishing, not sure that you do and if you need info for this area I will give you the info you need and then make your own decision what is good for you. My experience on the ice speaks for itself, whether in Ont, MB, SK or Alberta, can you say the same?

Again I apologize to the original OP as some dough heads just don't get it, myself included!!!

[anthony5]

Originally Posted by Jet

Endangering others by DUI is morally unacceptable and offensive, but endangering others ice fishing is not? Personally I don't see a difference, they both can kill and injure.

As to putting your 3/4 ton on 13" of ice for 5 hours, knock yourself out, it's your truck. I'm curious to know at what point lovich considers there's isn't enough ice for his truck, 12, 10, 8?

I guess nobody will care too much if you don't endanger them other than "You saw that guy with the 3/4 ton on 13" of ice", and maybe one day you'll be entertainment with a photo of another truck through the ice at lake X on this forum.

Checkout this Alberta Pro, he seems to get it and wouldn't put his 1/2 ton on 13 inches:
http://www.worldfishingnetwork.com/t...safety-comfort

Jet, you just don't get it do you, you are out of your league, give it up, don't matter how many #'s or letters you have attached to your handle🙄