Monster Pike Bait & What Bait Fish are Legal to use in Alberta

[Zip-in-Z]

Found these in the grocery store this afternoon, I imagine they'd be good bait for monster Pike .... anyone try them ?

Got the suckers in Dickson Trout Pond a year or so ago, they're the real thing. Sylvan & Gull open on Dec 11th, we got some ice forming around the shoreline, forecast for the next week looks good to build some thick ice.

Getting excited fellas ?

http://www.albertafishingguide.com/l...ll/sylvan-lake


No Frills/Superstore in Sylvan next to smelts.



Dickson Suckers all about 10" length.

[honker_clonker]

I've used chub mackerel, herring (fresh and frozen), blue scad and pacific saury before from superstore, all great bait. My favourites are fresh herring and the blue scad. I like to salt my herring before I freeze them to help prevent them from sticking together, and it toughens them up a bit so they stay on the hook/don't go mushy as fast. You can get a whole tray (10 ish 6-8" baits) for like $5!

[HowSwedeItIs]

Man those look good. Looking forward to trying out a quick-strike rig under my new jaw jacker this season. Those look mackerel seem like they would fit the bill

[Skoaltender]

I use the superstore herring all the time. I soak them in a extremely salty brine for 4-5 hours, drain, then coat in salt prior to freezing. A lot cheaper then buying from bait shops...

[Tcon]

Salting is a good idea to retain rigidity but I just use them as is and have had great success.

[waterninja]

Been buying my pike bait from superstore for 20 years. don't know if they are superior when it comes to actually catching something, but darn if you don't get some good chit at a good price.

[Zip-in-Z]

Originally Posted by honker_clonker

I've used chub mackerel, herring (fresh and frozen), blue scad and pacific saury before from superstore, all great bait.

Originally Posted by Jet

Part 3
Sportfishing
Angling Restrictions
19 No person shall angle using
....
(g) any fish as bait, other than dead bait fish, dead smelt, dead herring, dead shrimp, dead fish eggs or the skin, fins or eyes of game fish caught by angling.


Alberta Fishery Regulations
Source: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...l=herring#s-19

OK .... Dead is dead, fresh or frozen.... what am I/we missing in your post ?

Pls clarify Tks

[the11fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jet

It's not a bait fish, bait fish are:
suckers (family Catostomidae)
sticklebacks (family Gasterosteidae)
trout-perch (Percopsis omiscomaycus)
Iowa darter (Etheostoma exile)
minnows (family Cyprinidae), except carp, goldfish and the western silvery minnow.

I.E. either bait fish you've harvested, or bait fish you've purchased.

So Mackeral for example isn't a bait fish and isn't a smelt or herring, so it's not legal. The sucker's you caught at Dickson (provided you're allowed to catch bait fish there (I haven't checked, I guess you have)), are legal to use for bait and would be "bait fish". You can freeze or use em fresh provided they're dead.

Buy smelts, herring or shrimp or dead fish eggs from superstore and you're OK, anything else (Mackerel etc.) and you're not.

But don't beat yourself up too much about it, many people on the forum have read and replied to this thread and haven't mentioned it yet.

It's a federal rule and repeated in the Alberta Act, and in the regs. But it's a written less clear in the regs than in the Act, so many miss it. But they do ticket for it as they go by the act. Fine is $200.

I've also contacted ESRD to verify, and they verified what's written above to be the case.

Sorry for the bad news, I don't know why they have rules like this and don't allow all saltwater species, considering the threat from minnows etc. from other jurisdictions is greater.

Mackerel are not actually a sport fish.......And if it is not a sport fish.......it is a baitfish.........if you don't believe my look it up in the British Columbia Tidal Regions Fishing Regulations. It is completely legal. You can even buy mackerel for bait in many sporting goods store locations (but they more expensive than heck, so it is recommendable that you just make your way to superstore.....)

[Zip-in-Z]

OK Jet ... so you're sayin the Mackerel in the pic is illegal for bait in Ab ... my guess, not many here would know that ... another dumb rule that doesn't make sense, did you find out the hard way with a $200.00 fine ?

If that's the case, tks for clarifying & sharing your pearls of wisdom.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Zip-in-Z

OK Jet ... sharing your pearls of wisdom.

And moving on, looking forwards to the ice season Zip? Hopefully the wind stays down now. Might have to check Pigeon this weekend. Cheers.

[Zip-in-Z]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

And moving on, looking forwards to the ice season Zip? Hopefully the wind stays down now. Might have to check Pigeon this weekend. Cheers.

Snap .... I broke through and got wet socks this afternoon walking out 2-3 feet on the ice on Sylvan .... still a bit early, stay dry.

See ....

[honker_clonker]

Originally Posted by Jet

Part 3
Sportfishing
Angling Restrictions
19 No person shall angle using
....
(g) any fish as bait, other than dead bait fish, dead smelt, dead herring, dead shrimp, dead fish eggs or the skin, fins or eyes of game fish caught by angling.


Alberta Fishery Regulations
Source: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...l=herring#s-19

Good to know, its a good thing I haven't bought bait this year yet. Herring and smelts from here on out I guess.

[cube]

Originally Posted by Jet

It's a federal rule and repeated in the Alberta Act, and in the regs. But it's a written less clear in the regs than in the Act, so many miss it. But they do ticket for it as they go by the act. Fine is $200.

.

Would you have the link to the Federal rule/Act?

Thanks

Ben

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by cube

Would you have the link to the Federal rule/Act?

Thanks

Ben

Here you go:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r.../FullText.html

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Zip-in-Z

Snap .... I broke through and got wet socks this afternoon walking out 2-3 feet on the ice on Sylvan .... still a bit early, stay dry.

See ....

Yeah, that is early ice alright. I'll likely take a look at Pigeon but no plans to step on anything yet

Keep the updates coming Zip!

[Zip-in-Z]

Learned something new on this forum, as member “Jet” has pointed out, I wouldn’t recommend anyone use those Chub Mackerel in the first pic ... use the bait that's listed and enjoy some good Pike fishin this ice season.

Z-z


A good refresher for everyone, cut & paste from - Provincial Reg's …. 2016/17 Alberta Guide to Sport Fishing Regulations.

http://albertaregulations.ca/fishing...ngwithbaitfish

Fishing with Bait Fish - Bait Fish means any of the following:
• suckers (family Catostomidae)
• sticklebacks (family Gasterosteidae)
• trout-perch (Percopsis omiscomaycus)
• Iowa darter (Etheostoma exile)
• minnows (family Cyprinidae), except carp, goldfish and the western silvery minnow.

Note: Pet store fish (tropical fish) or crayfish cannot be used as bait fish. Bait Fish may be used in waters that do not have bait bans or bait fish restrictions. Where fishing with bait fish is prohibited, other baits including smelts, herring, gammarus shrimp and dead fish eggs (e.g., preserved “salmon eggs”) may be used, provided a bait ban is not in effect for that water body.

NOTE: Smelts and herring are of the saltwater families Osmeridae and Clupeidae. Use of the freshwater species cisco (Coregonidae), also called tullibee or lake herring, is prohibited from use as bait. Parts of Game Fish. Only the skin, fins, eyes and dead eggs of game fish may be used as bait, provided these fish were lawfully caught by angling. Skin, fins, eyes and dead eggs of game fish may be used where the use of bait fish is prohibited, but cannot be used where bait bans are in effect. All game fish kept must be counted in the daily catch limit, including any fish from which parts are used for bait.

From the - Federal FISHERIES ACT

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r.../FullText.html

Alberta Fishery Regulations, 1998 - SOR/98-246 Registration 1998-04-23, Alberta Fishery Regulations, 1998
Under Interpretation 1 (1) The definitions in this subsection apply in these Regulations.

Point # 3 - bait fish means a fish of a species set out in Part 2 of Schedule 1.

Item # 38 These Regulations come into force on April 23, 1998. SCHEDULE 1 - Bait Fish - PART 2

Species of Bait Fish

Item: Common Name Scientific Name
1 Iowa darter Etheostoma exile
2 Minnows, except carp, goldfish and western silvery minnow, Family Cyprinidae
3 Sticklebacks Family Gasterosteidae
4 Suckers Family Catostomidae
5 Trout perch Percopsis omiscomaycus


No where's do you see Chub Mackerel

[the11fisherman]

Originally Posted by Zip-in-Z

Learned something new on this forum, as member “Jet” has pointed out, I wouldn’t recommend anyone use those Chub Mackerel in the first pic ... use the bait that's listed and enjoy some good Pike fishin this ice season.

Z-z


A good refresher for everyone, cut & paste from - Provincial Reg's …. 2016/17 Alberta Guide to Sport Fishing Regulations.

http://albertaregulations.ca/fishing...ngwithbaitfish

Fishing with Bait Fish - Bait Fish means any of the following:
• suckers (family Catostomidae)
• sticklebacks (family Gasterosteidae)
• trout-perch (Percopsis omiscomaycus)
• Iowa darter (Etheostoma exile)
• minnows (family Cyprinidae), except carp, goldfish and the western silvery minnow.

Note: Pet store fish (tropical fish) or crayfish cannot be used as bait fish. Bait Fish may be used in waters that do not have bait bans or bait fish restrictions. Where fishing with bait fish is prohibited, other baits including smelts, herring, gammarus shrimp and dead fish eggs (e.g., preserved “salmon eggs”) may be used, provided a bait ban is not in effect for that water body.

NOTE: Smelts and herring are of the saltwater families Osmeridae and Clupeidae. Use of the freshwater species cisco (Coregonidae), also called tullibee or lake herring, is prohibited from use as bait. Parts of Game Fish. Only the skin, fins, eyes and dead eggs of game fish may be used as bait, provided these fish were lawfully caught by angling. Skin, fins, eyes and dead eggs of game fish may be used where the use of bait fish is prohibited, but cannot be used where bait bans are in effect. All game fish kept must be counted in the daily catch limit, including any fish from which parts are used for bait.

From the - Federal FISHERIES ACT

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r.../FullText.html

Alberta Fishery Regulations, 1998 - SOR/98-246 Registration 1998-04-23, Alberta Fishery Regulations, 1998
Under Interpretation 1 (1) The definitions in this subsection apply in these Regulations.

Point # 3 - bait fish means a fish of a species set out in Part 2 of Schedule 1.

Item # 38 These Regulations come into force on April 23, 1998. SCHEDULE 1 - Bait Fish - PART 2

Species of Bait Fish

Item: Common Name Scientific Name
1 Iowa darter Etheostoma exile
2 Minnows, except carp, goldfish and western silvery minnow, Family Cyprinidae
3 Sticklebacks Family Gasterosteidae
4 Suckers Family Catostomidae
5 Trout perch Percopsis omiscomaycus


No where's do you see Chub Mackerel

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.

[Zip-in-Z]

Originally Posted by the11fisherman

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.

Look forward to your update with their response ....

[BiggieB]

Originally Posted by the11fisherman

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.

I apologize if this sounds mean, not trying to be rude but you said they sell it in the bait fridge.... That doesn't mean they are forcing you to buy it and use it as bait.
Similar item is a sucker harness it's intended to be put on a LIVE sucker, but is sold at the fishin hole...
or look at deer bait, not legal to use in Alberta but Canadian tire and Cabelas sells it on a regular.
I've made a few mistakes myself so that's why it pays to re-re-re-read the regulations, there is always something new to learn.

[Newellknik]

Why would it matter what kind of dead bait you use . I'm pretty sure
there will a multitude of P Carp live and dead used for Big Pike
this winter .

[cube]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Here you go:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r.../FullText.html

Pretty sure those are the Alberta fisheries act just posted onto the Federal website.

I believe these are the Federal fisheries act.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...-53/index.html

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/f-14/

Did not find any place there about bait.

[cube]

Originally Posted by the11fisherman

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.

Did you email "Alberta Fish and Game" ,which is a private club (http://www.afga.org/) , or did you email Alberta Fish and Wildlife, part of the Gov't (http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/)?

[fish99]

where using bait fish is banned example spray lakes , you can use bait like smelts or any salt water fish.

[Zip-in-Z]

I hope I'm not the only one here who finds this topic a bit confusing. Fish & Wildlife and A/O fishin experts should develop a recognized degree program for "Master-Baiters" with a certificate suitable for framing so one can clearly understand the Alberta Guide to Sport Fishing Regulations & Federal FISHERIES ACT as it applies to something a simple as fishin with dead bait fish ..... count me in!

. .

.

[the11fisherman]

Originally Posted by cube

Did you email "Alberta Fish and Game" ,which is a private club (http://www.afga.org/) , or did you email Alberta Fish and Wildlife, part of the Gov't (http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/)?

I meant fish and wildlife.

[Wes_G]

Originally Posted by the11fisherman

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.

Not illegal to sell, just illegal to use. Most shops sell gaffs as well which are illegal to use in Alberta.

[Brandonkop]

Thanks for the update Jet. This must be a change in the last few years. Because I don't recall it being that specific in the regs the last time I had a read through. For sure don't remember it detailing every baitfish and that its ok to use smelt, herring, shrimp and eggs. This is news to me.

We have used Mackerel for years as well as blue scad and some others. But most of the time I just use herring. Anyways I'll have to see if I can find some old regs and see what it looked like a few years ago. I do think its a little silly that you can't use other dead fish. I've even used Milk fish in the last couple of years, but didn't catch anything. I've been checked several times by CO's with tip ups down and they just check my license and leave. They never look at what I have on for bait.

Has anyone actually been ticketed for this???

[HowSwedeItIs]

Originally Posted by Jet

"This species of fish, the Keo Fish, may not be used as bait when angling in Alberta. The reason it may not be used as bait is because only specified kinds of fish and specified parts of fish may be used as bait by anglers in Alberta."

So basically there's no good reason for them to not be on the list, haha. Thanks for posting the response you got.

I remember that thread about baiting minnow traps, I really hope that they can take the time to clear up confusing/illogical parts of the regs soon. The willingness to lay fines along the 'letter' as opposed to the 'spirit' of the law honestly disappoints me, for as much as I believe in following the rules.

[burbotman]

Originally Posted by Jet

Looking into this further, 2014/15/16 are all the same. But it's a bit more devious than that. They don't (in the regs) explicitly say you can only use dead herring etc., that's in the act. They say it in the regs kind by omission, read it, it's odd, it's there, but nowhere near explicit or clear, it's implied by what the say.

It's in the act though. The act is the rules though, they say that in the regs and it's what they book on. AB really needs to get their act (forgive the pun) together on this stuff and right regs more clearly. I wonder how many people get booked for this because they didn't take the time to make it clear in the regs.

It would be interesting to see if anyone on here has received or heard of anyone
Getting ticketed for this issue.
Some years at the badger derby there would be "hundreds" of people in violation.

Serious question- How many people would call someone in if they saw them using mackerel for bait?

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Newellknik

Why would it matter what kind of dead bait you use . I'm pretty sure
there will a multitude of P Carp live and dead used for Big Pike
this winter .

The regs are very clear on not using carp.

Bait Fish means any of the following:
...
minnows (family Cyprinidae), except carp, goldfish

Never ever use invasive species as bait. You will not enjoy the fine if caught doing so. Dead or not it doesn't matter...