a thread to express your feelings for c&r fish.

[Dust1n]

lets start with sturgeon?

[Gust]

Good post FH7.
Hmm, I don't target sturge but Goldeye are usually about in sturge waters, and I love catching them on the fly.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Good we now have a place for this......

I think if an effort is made to catch and release fish with minimal stress and handling then go for it. If a fish takes a hook too deep.....cut the hook off and let it go, don't monkey around with it out of the water for extended periods. Too often I see people "throwing" fish back.....releasing them gently is the way to do it....

LC

[gl2]

Originally Posted by Fish Hunter7

lets start with sturgeon?

i like to catch em...maybe a quick pic and send em on their way almost always better than they were before they met me.....except for frogs.

[Dust1n]

toirtis im sure would love to say something about this subject. what about if you fishing for cutties and a bull trout grabs your lure instead now what?

[RIGPIG48]

I use a catch and release tool which slides down the line and over the hook and with a quick push releases the fly from the fish. Most times you do not even have to touch the fish.

Rigpig

[Daceminnow]

rapala cd's and original floaters c/w three treble hooks are responsible for the death of many trout each season. big hooked clouser patterns are no different. when ate by aggressive feeding trout treble hooks find there way back into gill plates fast. the way a clouser minnow is put together, weighted on the bottom the hook can and does bury itself right up into the fishs brain. we fish neither knowing this, and catch and release many healthy fish.

Dace

[Lefty-Canuck]

Even having used the barless trebles....they are hell to get out of fish sometimes.....I think I am going to try putting single in place of the trebles to see how this changes hook ups....

I am strictly a catch and release fisherman so I guess I am the most unethical out of the bunch....lol.

Lefty

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by Fish Hunter7

toirtis im sure would love to say something about this subject. what about if you fishing for cutties and a bull trout grabs your lure instead now what?

No I don't think he will apparently it's more ethical to hijack someone else's thread...............

[SonnyJ]

Originally Posted by Fish Hunter7

toirtis im sure would love to say something about this subject. what about if you fishing for cutties and a bull trout grabs your lure instead now what?

bout six weeks ago I was targeting Bulls in Jasper using a rattlin' rap with trebles that still had the barbs on them..Park Warden came by and checked my license and said "Have a good day"..

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by SonnyJ

bout six weeks ago I was targeting Bulls in Jasper using a rattlin' rap with trebles that still had the barbs on them..Park Warden came by and checked my license and said "Have a good day"..

SO you were intentionally using barbed hooks? or you made a whoops and forgot to mashed them down?

LC

[RIGPIG48]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

SO you were intentionally using barbed hooks? or you made a whoops and forgot to mashed them down?

LC

X2

Rigpig

[ishootbambi]

im a c&r only guy. i dont have a hate for those who enjoy eating a few though. if i can avoid it, i wont even touch the fish....just lean out with a needle nose and pop out the hook. well except for the odd picture.

[bobalong]

The following is from a study done in Alberta about 10 years ago. As you can see by the numbers, even loosing one of these prehistoric fish can have a huge impact on the overall spawning numbers.

The entire sturgeon population in the North
Saskatchewan River (including young fish) was
estimated to be below 1000 individuals in 1992,
and thereafter displays an increasing trend in
population size, primarily because of the
recruitment of two stronger year classes (born
during 1986 and 1994). In 1999, the population
was estimated at approximately 1830 individuals
with age > 3, using the Jolly-Seber method
(Appendix 3A). Bailey’s formula (Ricker 1958)
was then used to confirm this estimate and to
determine accurate confidence intervals for the
estimate. In 2000, the population was estimated
at 1902 sturgeon, using the Bailey method.
Using the lower 95% confidence limit as a
precautionary principle results in a population
estimate of 1360 fish (1360 to 2689, 95% C.I.,
Appendix 3B). In 2000, 14% of the population
was greater than 20 years old (approximate age
at maturity) and longer than 130 cm (minimum
legal harvest length) (Figure 6). The estimated
number of mature sturgeon present in the North
Saskatchewan River in 2000 was therefore 190
fish. With a sex ratio of 50:50, the number of
mature females may be under 100 fish. Because
females spawn every 4 to 7 years, the annual
spawning population may be as low as 14 to 25
female sturgeon.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by bobalong

The following is from a study done in Alberta about 10 years ago. As you can see by the numbers, even loosing one of these prehistoric fish can have a huge impact on the overall spawning numbers.

The entire sturgeon population in the North
Saskatchewan River (including young fish) was
estimated to be below 1000 individuals in 1992,
and thereafter displays an increasing trend in
population size, primarily because of the
recruitment of two stronger year classes (born
during 1986 and 1994). In 1999, the population
was estimated at approximately 1830 individuals
with age > 3, using the Jolly-Seber method
(Appendix 3A). Bailey’s formula (Ricker 1958)
was then used to confirm this estimate and to
determine accurate confidence intervals for the
estimate. In 2000, the population was estimated
at 1902 sturgeon, using the Bailey method.
Using the lower 95% confidence limit as a
precautionary principle results in a population
estimate of 1360 fish (1360 to 2689, 95% C.I.,
Appendix 3B). In 2000, 14% of the population
was greater than 20 years old (approximate age
at maturity) and longer than 130 cm (minimum
legal harvest length) (Figure 6). The estimated
number of mature sturgeon present in the North
Saskatchewan River in 2000 was therefore 190
fish. With a sex ratio of 50:50, the number of
mature females may be under 100 fish. Because
females spawn every 4 to 7 years, the annual
spawning population may be as low as 14 to 25
female sturgeon.

this info comes from the same place that counts grizzly bears remember........

im not looking it up, but estimates for the SSR were pretty dismal as well. there is a 2 man crew that has been on a tagging mission based out of medicine hat for the last couple of years. from their reports and what they are seeing and catching (some multiple times) all age classes are well represented. considering only 2 guys can tag as many as they have, its a safe bet there are more than what srd fired out as a population number.

[steve]

Look what C&R has done to Wabamun Lake, turned a lake into a world class pike fishery. Its 45 mins from a million people and gets fished hard. Now anyone with a red devil or 5 o' diamonds can go and catch a 40'' plus healthy pike.

I am all for C&R. Or more slot limits to keep the big hens in the water.

[BGSH]

c&r is awsome, if you know how to CATCH and RELEASE fish, most people catch and rip hooks out of fish gills or mouth then chuck the fish back in the water and that is not how you release a fish, i have a ten second rule, catch a fish take pics fast, take hook out, then release reviveing fish, not thowing it back in the water like alot of people do, if you gonna catch fish rip the hook out of the fishes mouth and throw back in the water like football then you may as well keep it because it will die anyways.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

this info comes from the same place that counts grizzly bears remember........

im not looking it up, but estimates for the SSR were pretty dismal as well. there is a 2 man crew that has been on a tagging mission based out of medicine hat for the last couple of years. from their reports and what they are seeing and catching (some multiple times) all age classes are well represented. considering only 2 guys can tag as many as they have, its a safe bet there are more than what srd fired out as a population number.

Even if they are out by half, having 50 fish spawn in a stretch of river that long is still a fairly small population. 5 fish may not seem like many for most species, but loosing even 5 of these fish in a given year would reduce the spawn by 10%.
If you are going to target these fish use gear strong enough that you can catch and release these fish asap. Also better to pick up a cradle and handle these fish in the water, in the cradle, rather than dragging them through the mud or up on the rocks.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

I C&R most fish if they will survive. I will keep the odd 5-8lb pike ice-fishing for eating. The Walleye are pretty safe when I'm around. I have no need to release what I can't catch!

I think the best chances at fish surviving is using single hooks instead of trebles and getting them back into the water ASAP. I have weighed fish the last 3 years at the Badger derby and I always wonder how many of those large hens that are "successfully" released,die later. It takes quite a bit of time from the fish being caught to being put back into the lake. I still think that it's illegal from how I read the regs, but the F&W guys are out there every year and know how the Derby is run.

I have never had a fish "get away" from me. I have had many "Long Line Releases" though! LOL!

[338Bluff]

I will keep a portion of what I'm allowed. It gets eaten immediately and only on the rarest occasion will it get frozen.

My beef is with the 'holier than though' attitude some guys have about this topic. What is the difference about me killing a pair of trout and heading home and the guy bragging about a 100 fish day on Pigeon. I'm apparently an over-consumptive glutton, while the other is some new age Aldo Leopold. You can't convince me there is zero mortality with C&R. I usually quit long before the other guy does.

About 5 years ago I hit a stocked trout lake right after ice out with my Dad. We got into big fish right away and each kept 3. This lake was 4 hours from home and no where near a big centre. It wasn't like we are there every day. In fact think I may have killed 10 trout in my lifetime on this lake.

When we got back to the boat launch we ran into a guy with a pontoon boat. After exchanging the usual hows fishing. This guy proceeds to tear into us on 'how long were you out to get those' implying we must have sorted through dozens to get what we had (we didn't) followed by 'why don't you leave some in the lake'.

I don't think I have been madder in my life. Incidently, this was one the last fishing trips I will likely make with my Dad. That boor does not know how close he was....

If people aren't obviously poaching or doing stupid stuff. Keep it to yourself.

Incidently, this guy was the Fly fishing type. I flyfish (avidly) but there seems to be a difference. Why is it these Latin spouting, well dressed guys, with very expensive equipment feel so superior to the rest of us

Sorry about the rant but this thread brought up something that really bugs me.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I think the point is the regulations allow for "kept" fish in certain lakes and they allow for the "opportunity" to catch fish in others. Both lines of thinking are well within the legal side of things and within the regs.

I have no issues with the guy who catches trout and takes his limit or the guy who catches 100 walleye and C&R all of them.

The guy who criticizes the "catch and keepers" is just as bad as the guy who criticizes the "catch and releasers". Basically I feel the sportmen and the ones who share the resource should not be the ones at odds with each other over philosophies......

Follow what ever means you wish, be it keeping within the guildlines or properly releasing fish. Those who criticize "legal sportfishing activities" can get rid of the holier than thou as they are really no better than the other....

LC

[SonnyJ]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

SO you were intentionally using barbed hooks? or you made a whoops and forgot to mashed them down?

LC

Yes I was and if you would know the laws then you would know that there is no barbless rule in Jasper as you need a Federal Parks license not your Alberta license.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by SonnyJ

Yes I was and if you would know the laws then you would know that there is no barbless rule in Jasper as you need a Federal



Parks license not your Alberta license.

Canada National Parks Act, General Fishing Regulations

When angling, it is unlawful to:

Fish without a national park fishing permit.
Fish with or possess within 100 metres of park waters the following:
natural bait and chemical attractants;
any lead tackle (sinkers, jigs, lures and flies) under 50 grams;
lures with more than 2 gang hooks;
a line capable of catching more than one fish at one time.
Fish with more than one line at a time.
Fish closed waters.
Leave a fishing line unattended.
Fish from 2 hours after sunset to one hour before sunrise.
Allow your catch to spoil or to be wasted.
Sell, trade or barter any fish caught.
Place live fish or fish eggs in any park water or transfer them between bodies of water inside (or outside) the park.
Place any food for fish in park waters.
National Parks Fishing Regulations

Fishing Permits

Anyone under the age of 16 may fish in the national parks without a permit if accompanied by a permit holder 16 years of age or older. However, their catch is then included within the permit holder's daily limit. They may also purchase their own permit and be entitled to the full catch limit.

NOTE:This brochure is NOT a complete listing of the National Parks Fishing Regulations and has no legal status. More information is available from park wardens and park information centres.

Definitions

Natural bait ban: you can only use lures made of feathers, fibre, rubber, wood, metal or plastic. No edible material, scented lures or chemical attractants are permitted.

Barbless Hook: this includes a hook the barbs of which are pressed against the shaft of the hook so that the barbs are not functional.

Fly fishing only: means only artificial flies may be used.

Artificial fly: this is a single or double hook on a common shank, dressed with silk, tinsel, wood, fur, feathers or other materials (no lead), or any combination thereof without a spinning device, whether attached to the hook or line.

Tributary: any water course which flows into another body of water. This includes a tributary to a tributary. Lakes are excluded unless otherwise specified.

Trout: for the purposes of this summary, the word trout includes char species.


WILDLIFE WATCH

Report suspicious activities.
1-888-WARDENS (1-888-927-3367)




apparently it is a recommendation not a rule

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by SonnyJ

Yes I was and if you would know the laws then you would know that there is no barbless rule in Jasper as you need a Federal Parks license not your Alberta license.

Seeing as how I don't fish in National Parks then I have never read the regs for those ares. Rest assured if I DID I would know them. Clearly you fish there.....so YOU would need to know the regs

LC

[SonnyJ]

I just talked to Ward Houstan at the Jasper wardens office 780 852 6156 and he confirmed that there is NO barbless law in Jasper at this time but that there may be in the future
However in Waterton lakes national park there IS a barbless law..

[krachynski]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

Definitions

Barbless Hook: this includes a hook the barbs of which are pressed against the shaft of the hook so that the barbs are not functional.

Note that this is listed as a definition.

Originally Posted by horsetrader

apparently it is a recommendation not a rule

This comment prompted me to look up the federal regulations. Barbless hooks are required only for four national parks, of which Jasper is not listed, per http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regula...0/page-12.html

[Toirtis]

Originally Posted by Fish Hunter7

toirtis im sure would love to say something about this subject. what about if you fishing for cutties and a bull trout grabs your lure instead now what?

Really, the lot of you seem to be functioning on a minimum of grey-matter...the point was specifically targeting an endangered, zero-limit species...not inadvertently catching a strictly C&R species whilst targeting another.

[duffy4]

I have never been really keen on C&R. That is I would rarely go to a C&R water body to fish knowing I would have to release everything.

On the other hand I had a trout stocked dugout at one time and sometimes when a trout was particularly nice looking and did a few jumps for me I would release it to catch another day.

And if I can keep a few fish from a spot, I will C&R some others and keep what I am able or less if I choose.

But I am rethinking C&R fishing. I am reading a book "HUNTING philosophy for everyone" and fishing is really just another form of hunting.

Is it morally right for me to go out to hook and land fish with no intention of eating it but just for my fun.


As for sturgeon, C&R, I have never caught a sturgeon or seen one up close. I have a desire to catch and release ONE to have that experience.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by duffy4

I have never been really keen on C&R. That is I would rarely go to a C&R water body to fish knowing I would have to release everything.

On the other hand I had a trout stocked dugout at one time and sometimes when a trout was particularly nice looking and did a few jumps for me I would release it to catch another day.

And if I can keep a few fish from a spot, I will C&R some others and keep what I am able or less if I choose.

But I am rethinking C&R fishing. I am reading a book "HUNTING philosophy for everyone" and fishing is really just another form of hunting.

Is it morally right for me to go out to hook and land fish with no intention of eating it but just for my fun.


As for sturgeon, C&R, I have never caught a sturgeon or seen one up close. I have a desire to catch and release ONE to have that experience.

Not much different than me going duck hunting and practicing shoot at and release.

[McLeod]

Originally Posted by SonnyJ

I just talked to Ward Houstan at the Jasper wardens office 780 852 6156 and he confirmed that there is NO barbless law in Jasper at this time but that there may be in the future
However in Waterton lakes national park there IS a barbless law..

You are bang on. However anytime one is targeting a species such as Bulls or Cutties where there is a zero possession limit it only makes sense to use hooks that have the least amount of impact on the fish which has to be released.
Barbless would certainly help that cause.