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Old 04-21-2019, 01:01 PM
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Default Rimfire Thought??

With all the new rimfire's out the last 10 ish years or so........... In your opinion including price point's. Doe's Anschutz need to up their game or lower their price????? This should be a good civil discussion.
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Old 04-21-2019, 02:21 PM
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Interesting question to be sure. If their mission is to increase sales then a price reduction may be in order. But you know, quality is quality. I mean this as no offence to anyone, but I have had a few Savages that rivaled all of the many Coopers I had for straight accuracy. However, I had zero pride of ownership, so they went down the road.

Lots of good 22s out there for sure, but Anschutz is still Anschutz.
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Old 04-21-2019, 02:28 PM
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I used to really want an Anschutz, but if I had to buy one right now, I think I'd have a tough time getting one. Would likely lean towards the CZ 457 Varmint At-One:


I can't find the article, but they reviewed a 457 to a $2k+ Anschutz (can't remember the model, just the price) and while the Anschutz was the nice, more accurate gun, the reviewer didn't feel it was justified by the price. They were shooting at aspirin, they got 10/10 with the Anschutz and 9/10 with the 457. For the miss, he wasn't sure if it was the rifle or him.

I've read the T1x is pretty accurate, I'm just not sold on the looks.
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Old 04-21-2019, 03:14 PM
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Casual use lots of guns fit the bill, you want to seriously compete and don't have an Anschutz or something in that price class, you are pushing on a rope.
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Old 04-21-2019, 03:17 PM
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Three years I had cause to contact Anschutz USA about some accuracy and got as high as the U.S. Vice President (a very friendly knowledgeable guy BTW).
Talked about a number of things including sales.
They sell all they can make. Their competition rimfire and pellet are THE guns to have in international competition (along with FWB).
Just as Porsche isn’t concerned with price matching a Chevy...Anschutz isn’t worried about CZ. They build for a customer who wants the best and something that may turn into a family heirloom.
And if you look at the sales of Anschutz, Porsche, Rolex and the such... lots of those people exist.
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Old 04-21-2019, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Just as Porsche isn’t concerned with price matching a Chevy...Anschutz isn’t worried about CZ.
Porsche 718: $56,900.00
Stingray: $56,995.00
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Old 04-21-2019, 10:05 PM
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Anschutz has priced their rifles right were they should be. People can say whatever they like about other rimfires.
The Anschutz 54 action is the gold standard the world over. Period.
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Old 04-21-2019, 10:08 PM
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Porsche 718: $56,900.00
Stingray: $56,995.00
Ummm, the last vette i looked at was 114,000 and there’s lots that cost more than that, no idea about a Porsche
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Old 04-21-2019, 10:15 PM
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Ummm, the last vette i looked at was 114,000 and there’s lots that cost more than that, no idea about a Porsche
A Porsche 718 (Boxster) is an entry level car. Kinda the equivalent of a V6 Camaro.
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Old 04-21-2019, 10:21 PM
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Anschutz does make lower end models on the 64 action to appeal to people with smaller budgets, but they also make rifles on the Fortner action for the people that want the best, and are willing to pay.
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:36 AM
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You can buy an anschutz 64 it’s not expensive and you have the best, no mods necessary. It’s the gold standard I have 2 64 action one scoped and one not, they are as good as I can justify and I don’t want them made any cheaper.
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:38 AM
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You can buy an anschutz 64 it’s not expensive and you have the best, no mods necessary. It’s the gold standard I have 2 64 action one scoped and one not, they are as good as I can justify and I don’t want them made any cheaper.
Most people consider the Anschutz 54 to be the most desirable bolt action rimfire..
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Most people consider the Anschutz 54 to be the most desirable bolt action rimfire..
You are right and i would like one but the 64 is the lower gold standard so to speak for somebody with less money and they should probly save till they can get one. Some of the same people that own a dozen rifles they dont need complain about the price of one that costs a bit more. Can you imagine the howls if they replaced the 64 with a cheaper model
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trochu View Post
Porsche 718: $56,900.00
Stingray: $56,995.00
Porsche 911 GTS...$160,000.00
And a Corvette ain't no CZ.
Cool the way you stack up the low end against the high and somehow come to some (pick your adjective) conclusion.
Just 'cause you can't afford or justify the Anschutz doesn't mean the value isn't there.
Perhaps you'd be happy with used Cooey...pretty sure you can pick them up for sixty bucks.
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Old 04-22-2019, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Porsche 911 GTS...$160,000.00
And a Corvette ain't no CZ.
Cool the way you stack up the low end against the high and somehow come to some (pick your adjective) conclusion.
Just 'cause you can't afford or justify the Anschutz doesn't mean the value isn't there.
Perhaps you'd be happy with used Cooey...pretty sure you can pick them up for sixty bucks.
It would be nice to have a Cooey in a way.

Last edited by Trochu; 04-22-2019 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 04-22-2019, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Porsche 911 GTS...$160,000.00
And a Corvette ain't no CZ.
Cool the way you stack up the low end against the high and somehow come to some (pick your adjective) conclusion.
Just 'cause you can't afford or justify the Anschutz doesn't mean the value isn't there.
Perhaps you'd be happy with used Cooey...pretty sure you can pick them up for sixty bucks.
Hi Dick. I do actually own a Anschutz 1522 with the 54 action. Also CZ Savage Marlin etc. The topic wasn't meant to draw the problem AO children out. Just a topic to discuss for info and fun. By the way I'll quote myself.....
"This should be a good civil discussion." Thanks for trying to do your normal disturbance's. Now back to thread.
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LC

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when a human eats another human, people act like it's the end if the friggin world. News coverage, tweets, blogs, outrage, Piers Morgan etcetc.

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Old 04-22-2019, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcmm View Post
Hi Dick. I do actually own a Anschutz 1522 with the 54 action. Also CZ Savage Marlin etc. The topic wasn't meant to draw the problem AO children out. Just a topic to discuss for info and fun. By the way I'll quote myself.....
"This should be a good civil discussion." Thanks for trying to do your normal disturbance's. Now back to thread.
Over 3000 posts and you haven't realized that no one stays civil around here for long
And what is wrong with pointing out that some companies (Anschutz, Nightforce, Rolex, Porsche and lots of others) aren't building their product to meet a price point? They are trying to build the best product possible and that costs money.
I for one don't want Anschutz (use to own their 10m Olympic air rifles) to lower their quality so they can compete with a lesser brand.
You asked for people to discuss the issue...that's what we are doing...or did you just want everyone to agree with you...Dick?
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Old 04-22-2019, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Over 3000 posts and you haven't realized that no one stays civil around here for long
And what is wrong with pointing out that some companies (Anschutz, Nightforce, Rolex, Porsche and lots of others) aren't building their product to meet a price point? They are trying to build the best product possible and that costs money.
I for one don't want Anschutz (use to own their 10m Olympic air rifles) to lower their quality so they can compete with a lesser brand.
You asked for people to discuss the issue...that's what we are doing...or did you just want everyone to agree with you...Dick?
My quote
"This should be a good civil discussion."
Yours
"Over 3000 posts and you haven't realized that no one stays civil around here for long " So my question to you..
Are you are here to cause disturbances???
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norwestalta

.....out of bounds.....but funny none the less!

LC

"Funny how when a bear eats another bear, no one bats an eye, but......

when a human eats another human, people act like it's the end if the friggin world. News coverage, tweets, blogs, outrage, Piers Morgan etcetc.

Go figure." -Huntinstuff
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Old 04-22-2019, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcmm View Post
My quote
"This should be a good civil discussion."
Yours
"Over 3000 posts and you haven't realized that no one stays civil around here for long " So my question to you..
Are you are here to cause disturbances???
Every website he’s ever been on he causes disturbances. But he likes to think it’s everyone else that is the problem...
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Old 04-22-2019, 04:41 PM
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I had a new 1712, I felt it was no where near as good as their older 54’s. Sold it and found a beauty used one. So to answer the question the new 54 I had needed better finishing in my mind or a lower price.
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:05 PM
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I have 2 Anschutz rifles, an older kid's model (1450) I bought for $289 around 1990...and a new model 64 MPR "Tactical Trainer". (64 MPR in a biathlon/trainer-type stock) The two couldn't be more different than one another, but what both have shown me is how good Anschutz guns are...and I've never even held models up the food chain from the 64.

So with that 64 MPR at the top of my own small collection, I'll comment on it. I think when you're up in that price range, the temptation might be to expect the world to move when you hold it/shoot it. The truth is (from the outside) it might be hard to really see where the extra $ is going. Yes, better machining/finishing/wood work...but not 3-4X nicer than a CZ. (and I have 3 CZs, 2 of which are model 452 rifles in 22LR) The moment you start using it, the differences become noticeable. When you feel the trigger, you know you're in a different class of rifles..and when you see the groups on paper...suddenly, you're feeling you got good value for $. And I'm no stellar marksman~ask anyone I shoot with. lol

It matters or it doesn't, but the Anschutz brand is synonymous with quality..and I'd honestly be surprised if they hit a point where they said "we need a $600 offering, lets cut some corners!" lol In fact, my 1450 (and some other CIL-branded rifles, if memory serves) are probably evidence that Anschutz is actually going in the other direction. The fortner-action guns are up in the $3,500 range if I remember that right, so if they're expanding their offerings...it's in the other direction.

Having said all of that, I don't love the old-school/European look of their sporters...some of which have crept down to the $1,000 mark on sale in recent years. I also have a hard time imagining a better trigger, OR better accuracy than what I'm getting with my 64 (me being the weak link of course ) so if a heavy barrel, 64-action sporter with more modern lines and perhaps a satin finish became available...I would make one a priority. For now, my 64 is my fun "bench" gun...and everything else I need 22s for is covered-off by my 2 CZs. I actually though the 64 might become a gopher gun one day...but I'm still too smitten with it to subject it to that. lol

Anyhow, like most guys who have been at it a while...lots of rimfires have come and gone, so I feel my frame of reference is pretty good. CZs x 5-6, Savage x 4-5, Marlin x 4-5, Winchester x 2, Cooey x 4, Henry x 1, Chiappa x 2, Ruger x 1, Norinco x 3...probably a handful of others I've forgotten over the years. I'm basically down to the 2 Anschutz, 2 CZs, and a couple of cheap plinkers like the Savage Rascal I use to teach younger kids with. You certainly don't need an Anschutz, but coming from a person who has to save a long time to buy nice things, I will say that I feel they're worth what you pay for them.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundhogger View Post
I have 2 Anschutz rifles, an older kid's model (1450) I bought for $289 around 1990...and a new model 64 MPR "Tactical Trainer". (64 MPR in a biathlon/trainer-type stock) The two couldn't be more different than one another, but what both have shown me is how good Anschutz guns are...and I've never even held models up the food chain from the 64.

So with that 64 MPR at the top of my own small collection, I'll comment on it. I think when you're up in that price range, the temptation might be to expect the world to move when you hold it/shoot it. The truth is (from the outside) it might be hard to really see where the extra $ is going. Yes, better machining/finishing/wood work...but not 3-4X nicer than a CZ. (and I have 3 CZs, 2 of which are model 452 rifles in 22LR) The moment you start using it, the differences become noticeable. When you feel the trigger, you know you're in a different class of rifles..and when you see the groups on paper...suddenly, you're feeling you got good value for $. And I'm no stellar marksman~ask anyone I shoot with. lol

It matters or it doesn't, but the Anschutz brand is synonymous with quality..and I'd honestly be surprised if they hit a point where they said "we need a $600 offering, lets cut some corners!" lol In fact, my 1450 (and some other CIL-branded rifles, if memory serves) are probably evidence that Anschutz is actually going in the other direction. The fortner-action guns are up in the $3,500 range if I remember that right, so if they're expanding their offerings...it's in the other direction.

Having said all of that, I don't love the old-school/European look of their sporters...some of which have crept down to the $1,000 mark on sale in recent years. I also have a hard time imagining a better trigger, OR better accuracy than what I'm getting with my 64 (me being the weak link of course ) so if a heavy barrel, 64-action sporter with more modern lines and perhaps a satin finish became available...I would make one a priority. For now, my 64 is my fun "bench" gun...and everything else I need 22s for is covered-off by my 2 CZs. I actually though the 64 might become a gopher gun one day...but I'm still too smitten with it to subject it to that. lol

Anyhow, like most guys who have been at it a while...lots of rimfires have come and gone, so I feel my frame of reference is pretty good. CZs x 5-6, Savage x 4-5, Marlin x 4-5, Winchester x 2, Cooey x 4, Henry x 1, Chiappa x 2, Ruger x 1, Norinco x 3...probably a handful of others I've forgotten over the years. I'm basically down to the 2 Anschutz, 2 CZs, and a couple of cheap plinkers like the Savage Rascal I use to teach younger kids with. You certainly don't need an Anschutz, but coming from a person who has to save a long time to buy nice things, I will say that I feel they're worth what you pay for them.
Exactly!!
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:39 PM
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I know only a handful of people who are capable of shooting the difference of a higher end smallbore match rifle and an entry level match rifle.
However, I certainly can see the difference when a master class shooter gets on the line against an expert class shooter with the class of rifle - the difference e will be small but it will be there.
As far as bench shooting goes, I have seen re-barreled Martini International actions match up against the 54 Anschutz , 37 Remington, and 52 Winchester, but at the same time these are top shelf shooters.
The tricked out 10/22's and lower level match rifles were always left behind.

In the gopher patch it is a different ball game, but the better shooter is still going to win out no matter what the other guy is shooting.

I like .22 match rifles, but have been out of the competitive scene for so long I am not a threat to anyone in a 3 position competition, no matter what I am shooting, so am not really worried about buying a $3,000 rifle right off the bat if i was going to get back into it!
That being said, I have several rifles well over 50 years old in the vault that will still win a National match with the right person behind them.
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:49 PM
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Thanks Groundhogger and Cat, this is the way I hoped the thread would go. Not a urinating match or an I told you so. Just outdoorspeople sharing knowledge.
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LC

"Funny how when a bear eats another bear, no one bats an eye, but......

when a human eats another human, people act like it's the end if the friggin world. News coverage, tweets, blogs, outrage, Piers Morgan etcetc.

Go figure." -Huntinstuff
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Old 04-23-2019, 10:26 PM
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Glad I came across this thread I inherited my dads 22 put a scope on it and it’s my second season shooting gofers . Was at the range the other day and my groups you could cover with a dime my friends group 10/22 couldn’t cover with a toonie . I just looked at it and it says match 64 on the barrel. It’s a nice gun I like it single shot bolt action . Made in west Germany
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:33 AM
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Several years ago I had a chance to buy a CIL 310 bolt action made by Anschutz but imported by CIL for Canada. Cheaper stock and a bit poorer finish than the real thing but it outshot my Kimber Super America by a mile so bye bye Kimber and no regrets. I would look for a used Anschutz if I could not afford the ticket for a new one..... worth every $$ to me and I will and it off to my grand sons.
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:54 AM
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This conversation reminds me of how often I take "flak" from one of my buddies about how 22s are nothing but toys..lol I think that (depending on the gun, and ammo you're putting through it) someone could certainly walk away from the experience with that impression. I know his last (and only?) 22 was a Ruger 10/22 TD...probably running whatever bulk ammo was the cheapest.

I have no match-shooting aspirations, but being a serious enthusiast (and Ontarian who wished he lived/worked in AB gopher country ) sort of inspires me to see what's possible, within my relatively modest means. When you do start taking the caliber seriously, and start aspiring to buy the best (vs. the cheapest) you do uncover some interesting things...and ultimately, suprise yourself with the accuracy that is achievable. For me, what was most telling was an experience here on a farm where I do some shooting locally. (family friends) The farmer's son is in his 20s, and has zero interest in shooting. I offer every time I'm there, usually shooting clays...but often 22LR. He never takes me up on it. The first time I brought the Anschutz over, he came back on the ATV and started asking a bunch of questions about it. (probably because it doesn't look like "normal" rifle) I had it set-up @ 50 yards, testing ammo...but had the rifle zeroed with SK Standard. Easily dime-sized groups at that distance, even on the first outing. Anyhow, he asked if he could try it. I set up a fresh target, but also jammed some empty shotgun hulls (20 and 12ga #7-1/2s) into the sand, open-end down.

He chose those.

After 5 shots/5 hits, I asked him if he'd like to see the hulls fly...instead of punching holes in them. I told him to do that, he'd have to hit the metal rim..and as you know, that's around 1/4" high. 2 x 5 round mags later, he'd launched 9/10 of them into the woods. If you ask me, seeing a smile wash over the face of a guy who doesn't even like guns is telling...and he was over 100 rounds in before asking me if I'd like to take over. lol (I was loading mags, and just passing them to him)

Anyhow, fun story...and I remember it fondly. That gun has converted 2 people who have used it. Not suggesting my CZs wouldn't have done the same, more a comment on how much easier it can be to achieve good accuracy with a great tool.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:45 AM
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Wholly smokes, it’s just a rimfire! You’d swear you insulted some guy’s wife by how worked up they get over a corvette

I considered buying a high end rimfire but a $400 savage would probably get a guy some decent groups. For a few bucks more a CZ would get you the same size groups but in a more prestigious platform. If I was to step up from that I wouldn’t waste my money on an Anschutz, I’d go straight up to the Vudoo without a doubt. But for the money I’d be all over the Tikka T1X, although the CZ Royal keeps calling me.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:12 PM
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Wholly smokes, it’s just a rimfire! You’d swear you insulted some guy’s wife by how worked up they get over a corvette

I considered buying a high end rimfire but a $400 savage would probably get a guy some decent groups. For a few bucks more a CZ would get you the same size groups but in a more prestigious platform. If I was to step up from that I wouldn’t waste my money on an Anschutz, I’d go straight up to the Vudoo without a doubt. But for the money I’d be all over the Tikka T1X, although the CZ Royal keeps calling me.
I’d hardly call it wasted money, lol

I do standby my beliefs that the older Annie’s are nicer and a veritable bargain if not abused. Excellent rifles for the money. I’m actually more inclined to invest $$, in a 22 over a centerfire. The 22 is just too much fun and ultimately shot more by me. Too each their own.

If could have only two rifles one would be a elk/moose capable rifle and the other a 22. I know that’s crazy talk as I have many more but that would be my last two I’d ever let go of.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:30 PM
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I’d hardly call it wasted money, lol

I do standby my beliefs that the older Annie’s are nicer and a veritable bargain if not abused. Excellent rifles for the money. I’m actually more inclined to invest $$, in a 22 over a centerfire. The 22 is just too much fun and ultimately shot more by me. Too each their own.

If could have only two rifles one would be a elk/moose capable rifle and the other a 22. I know that’s crazy talk as I have many more but that would be my last two I’d ever let go of.

I get it, but the way I see it is how often does a guy shoot at a chickens head from farther that 50yds? The small game hunting crowd isn’t exactly into long range hunts, a beat up old cooey will do the job under 99% of Hunting scenarios (I am speaking of small game hunting like chicken and rabbits, not the groundhoggers). Sentimental value or collector value is a different ball of wax, and varmint hunting is easily dominated buy centerfires, a 204, 22-250, 223 and the like are much better suited for killing coyotes and that size game than any rimfire. If you’re in it to win trophies than like I said, I’d much rather spend the money on a Vudoo.

I’m still standing by the T1X as being one of the better bang for the bucks when it comes to rimfires, and that’s just based on the limited reviews I’ve read or watched on YouTube. The nice part about the Tikka is it uses the exact same stock as the T3.
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