Baiting In Alberta

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Your scenario cannot be applied in nature David....you cannot control movements of wild game populations without fences....we cannot fence Alberta and all wild populations....most of what you talk about are in captive situations, and therefore do not apply.

...you said it reappeared in a pen after 14 years, was this a bovine? or a cervid pen?.....what about in nature?

I can see how ISB is getting frustrated discussing this with you....you skim over everything valid, pick up one point and spew a bunch of unrelated stuff out about things that are not relevant to this situation we have here

....so after 14 years of "dormant stage" it resurfaces....thus it is NEVER GOING AWAY.

If a significant cull takes place....do you not think that effects hunting opportunities significantly? it already has in certain areas in this province.....but you don't mind as it is not in your backyard

LC

wow i do mind but once it is here in Alberta we have no choice other than to bring into action our plan to stop the expansion of it into our province and implement action plans to insure it does not spread and we keep it at the border as we do Rats etc and listen to the experts that we pay to give us the best advice of the day to handle this out break .. we stopped it at the deer farms and elk farms but this border issue has to be addressed not now But RIGHT NOW

the longer we put our head in the sand the bigger our problem is ( thats a Fact)

Food for Thought

David

[justinO]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

these people are at the leading edge of their field and to try to baffle them with bs is wasting their time if you want their opinion then ask but if you want to debate then they don,t have the time for 115000 Alberta Hunter Experts..

http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fu...704b9d1fbe3e64

I have sat out and promised myself I would not post again in this thread but this is dejavu from years ago when myself and many other serious hunters in the province started noticing the affect of mass supplemental tags given out (nothing to do with CWD).When brought up I was given the same answer who are you these experts are leading the field and know everything yea right!!! then a couple years later find out they are using old deer populations surveys as they don't have the budget to do it every year??? Now look at the deer herds in these effected wmu's. The argument these people know everything is BS not flying with me.

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

[/B]

wow i do mind but once it is here in Alberta we have no choice other than to bring into action our plan to stop the expansion of it into our province and implement action plans to insure it does not spread and we keep it at the border as we do Rats etc and listen to the experts that we pay to give us the best advice of the day to handle this out break .. we stopped it at the deer farms and elk farms but this border issue has to be addressed not now But RIGHT NOW

the longer we put our head in the sand the bigger our problem is ( thats a Fact)

Food for Thought

David

I rest my case , u continue to deflect the facts... bury your head in the sand , go right ahead
I want you to answer this question without throwing up a link or deflecting the issue.... Knowing with low percentages you need 1000's not hundreds of samples to prove a handful of cwd positives..... Proven along the border... Knowing this can you say with 100% confidence cwd doesn't exist west of the border knowing cwd was found in domesticated deer and elk farms west of the border around edmonton.... Yes or No ?... Not based on what Margo recommended , but what you believe makes sense, based on what was proven along the border

Food for thought

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I specialize in "Analytical" Instrumentation.....it could also be considered "Scientific"....that is what I do for work and what I have been doing for work for the past 15 years but this isn't about you and me and our qualifications David.

Again....you choose to not identify the point I was making, and instead choose to deflect the issue.

You would agree that taking a fish tank full of fish and studying that vs. studying a wild free swimming ocean ecosystem would not be comparing the same thing?....I hope you would. A person who is "Analytical" and "Scientific" should know the difference.

This situation you describe using European studies based on captive bovine hosts...is akin to studying a penned domestic herd vs. a free range wild herd.....they are NOT the same thing.

....see my point yet?
LC

so you are too good for you!!!

so what are the experts saying about this issue Baiting... check Cwd-Info.org .. also what are our Canadain experts say about CWD in Canada and what do they recommend as some preventive measures .. would you agree that they are saying that we need to do some culling in hot spots and need hunter support to keep the numbers low in CWD zones and because of public pressure they have stop themself from doing the necessary culls so they have to be carefull how they get to their goal because afew un-informed people won,t understand CDC/WHO diseases control protocall

you do understand how it works for SAR's or Avain Flu control measures or E-bolo

Food for Thought

David

[Lefty-Canuck]

Culling has taken place since it was found in Alberta....has it helped? If there were no culls what would the current infection rate be? I took Biometrics in school and I will be the first to admit I did not excel at it...

Controlling and treating isolated human populations is way easier than controlling a free range wild population.

Because you can contain an infection in humans to some extent via quarantine.

You would never be able to fully quarantine a wild free ranging population.

Prions are not well understood....rate of infection, instance of infection, origin of infection, mode of infection, etc.....for prions is not fully known. It is not a virus and cannot be treated as such. There is no vaccine, there is no treatment, there is no innoculation.....Do they get infected by inhalation? injestion? absorbtion? physical contact? sexual contact? in utero?

Prions are not well understood....the way to deal with them is even less understood. I don't pretend to have all the answers but from what I do know....people have not learned from the mistakes of the past in dealing with Prions.

LC

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I still don't understand how prions spread CWD.

What I read indicates that these prions are mostly in the brain and spinal column, so how do they get from deep inside the animal to on the ground?

I can understand how they would get from a dead animal to the ground, but how do they get from a live animal to the ground?

I tried google, it the only source I have at this time, but I found nothing about how this happens.

Does anyone know?

Another question I have, most proteins have a rather short life outside a living organism, so why do these prions have such a long life? Why don't they rot like most proteins?

I am aware of some proteins that do persist outside a living organism, such as leather, but it is my understanding the proteins involved are from the nervous system, so why would they persist?

It may not be important but it does help me to understand why the concern. As it is now, I have to go with what I understand and that's not enough to convince me that baiting should be illegal.

As was pointed out by others, baiting for other purposes, even if they are not called baiting does exist legally now, just not for hunting purposes.
And then there's the whole issue of other man made food sources that can and does concentrate Deer and Elk, and there is the game farm issue.

Why is only baiting for hunting purposes such a concern?

Here is a good read Keg hope this answers some of your questions its a little old

David

http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fu...about.overview

[super7mag]

Well David I am not sure if your leading experts in the field will ever realize all the did with the initial cull is create a VOID! As refered to by our local bio, which means we opened up areas or ranges where more sask. deer were Likly to go for lack of competition for food , and mating. Deer will migrate. So unless you want to a anihlate deer from the Manitoba border to the BC border your philosophy is a huge bunch of BS. We live here we see the results of the scam called a cull. Kill 10,000 to save 10 stupid!! A scientist once said if you look in any population in the world for an ailment, diasese, or disorder you will find it. From coral reefs to crustations to fish to amphibians to mammals . Look hard enough and you'll find the next " emergency".

[buck1979]

40-50 deer a day at a bait would be EXTREMELY uncommon. I've hunted baits, and never in my life seen that many in a day.

We did build a 5 acre alfalfa plot and had 30 or so in it every evening. Probably a CWD cesspool.

[Donkey Oatey]

Ooops. Took a bit of a hiatus and miss a whole bunch.


Some misconceptions have crept back in to the discussion. You can not compare BSE and CWD. The only thing they have in common is that they are prion diseases of the brain.

They do NOT spread the same way. BSE is non-infectious. You can not spread BSE through contact or from live animal to live animal. BSE is only spread by the consumption of tainted animals. And then only through the consumption of the specific risk materials (SRM). BSE was spread through the practice of rendering downer animals and putting that same material back in to cattle feed as protein. The act of rendering did not destroy the prion protein. So as more and more cattle got sick, the higher the concentration of the prion in the feed. BOOM 180,000 infected cattle with 4.4 million slaughtered in the eradication.

CWD is an infectious disease. Will spread from live animal to live animal. It is persistent in the environment for long periods. (>10yrs)

To answer some of Keg's questions. Prions are mostly concentrated in the brain and spinal column but can be found in all tissues in smaller amounts. Since it is in the brain and spine it is also concentrated in the lymphatic tissues as well. That is why when they test they test brain, tonsil and lymph nodes. There are clusters of lymph nodes at the eyes, throat, and anus. One of the symptoms of CWD is uncontrollable salivation. That is why they think that the prions are shed through urine, saliva, feces. As the disease progresses more and more prions exist in the body and are "shed" or expelled from the body. These proteins are so small as to be virtually impossible to see. When they test for the disease they are looking for the effects of the holes in the brain, not to actually see the protein.

As it is a protein it is not alive. It does not "reproduce". It does not eat. It does not breathe. It just exists until consumed. Once concentrated in the body it hooks on to the protein in the brain, the same protein as it was before being miss folded, and causes those proteins to fold in the same shape as itself making a chain of them.

Speckle55 what I think you are talking about with quarantines in Europe was due to hoof and mouth disease. Highly infectious and easily spread. It is different from CWD in that you can sanitize for it. And very different from BSE as it is non-infectious.

The cull was never to "save" the 100 infected ones. It was to see what the infection rate was and to remove the infected ones in early stages before they had a chance to shed prions in any great numbers. I am not defended the culls, I never said they were a good thing. I am saying some of the reasons for culls and for decreases in populations in certain areas.

[shedcrazy]

Does anyone know the half-life for CWD? I am pretty sure there was/is research going on. I had heard 6 month half-life but can't confirm. I know it was a lot less than first thought. Most of the stats about how long CWD survives in the environment is from scrappie and not the same thing.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

The cull was never to "save" the 100 infected ones. It was to see what the infection rate was and to remove the infected ones in early stages before they had a chance to shed prions in any great numbers. I am not defended the culls, I never said they were a good thing. I am saying some of the reasons for culls and for decreases in populations in certain areas.

I can understand somewhat the reasonings behind an INITIAL cull....just to attempt to figure out what they were dealing with. I think it was more done as a knee jerk and someone who gave the orders just didn't know how to deal with it and this was what they came up with.

Any further and subsequent culls at this point are utterly foolish and IMHO would acheive nothing other than decimate an already poor population.

Once you remove the carrying capacity of a region.....other animals from other regions will slowly migrate and repopulate the area. So further culls would just be wiping out transplanted animals with no gains to "science".

LC

[super7mag]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I can understand somewhat the reasonings behind an INITIAL cull....just to attempt to figure out what they were dealing with. I think it was more done as a knee jerk and someone who gave the orders just didn't know how to deal with it and this was what they came up with.

Any further and subsequent culls at this point are utterly foolish and IMHO would acheive nothing other than decimate an already poor population.

Once you remove the carrying capacity of a region.....other animals from other regions will slowly migrate and repopulate the area. So further culls would just be wiping out transplanted animals with no gains to "science".

LC

No Lefty the way to put on a cull now is to put a bunch of Mule zones on draw except along the border, give out generous amounts of Tags and let hunters do the dirty work in the name of more oppertunitys. They think we are stupid. My border mule deer tag is on the tree where it should be.
And your last paragraph is absolutly right, it is a VOID.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Here is a good read Keg hope this answers some of your questions its a little old

David

http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fu...about.overview

It is an interesting link for sure. But it is pretty much a repeat of what I found in other places. And it repeats the one thing that gives me the most concern.

It says and I quote;

the infectious agents are hypothesized to be prions

At one time it was hypothesized that the world was flat. We know how that theory turned out. Maybe they are right this time. Or maybe it's another Thalidomide or Urea formaldehyde insulation.

The experts thought they had all the answers in those cases as well.

I see too many issues with this whole deal for me to jump on anyones band wagon.

Like I said, I have no interest in baiting, and I would add, I have no interest in opposing baiting.

I know that food plots and feed piles are used already. I also know there are many more man made feed sources that concentrate Deer, like in this picture I took a few years ago.



Sorry not a good photo, it was almost dark and the Deer moving created this weird effect. There were eight feeding at this grain tube, and they were there every evening for most of the winter.

And of course there are piles like this.



Notice the fence. Most are not fenced. This fence was put there to keep the Deer out. It didn't work. Deer can jump an six foot fence if they want to.

I have a number of other photos of this nature, but these should show what I'm seeing well enough.

It seems to me that there are plenty of ways that animals will be drawn to one place, already and the insistence that it may help stop CWD simply doesn't wash with me.

It is equally true that it may have no effect, given how much is known about the condition and the other sources of man made and natural concentrating inducements.

To me it seems kinda like making it illegal to handle food with unclean hands but ignoring unclean cooking utensils and food preparation surfaces.

Yes washing ones hands does help to prevent the spread of disease, but it's pretty much a waste of time if everything else involved is dirty.

I would support a ban on baiting, if it included a ban on leaving other man made food sources where Deer and Elk can access them. That would of course include making baiting or feeding for any purpose.

And there would also have to be a total ban on farming of any and all members of the Cervidae family.

If what they say about this condition is true, then anything less is not just a total waste of time, it would be irresponsible as well.

I'm still a bit confused at your point Keg...no doubt we as society do lots of things wrong...I've never heard anything to the contrary but are you saying that justifies doing more wrong?

Because we have government sanctioned industrial polluters does that mean we should just throw all our personal garbage in the river or on the street.

I'm honestly trying hard but I can't follow your line of reasoning. You seem hell bent on convincing us that there are grain piles out there that deer feed on and it's likely not the best case scenario for CWD transmission....I agree....so how does that justify baiting?

[super7mag]

That grain in piles does not stay there long or there is no money, the grain bags well the bag could be considered pollution I guess but again around here most bags are already off the fields. I think when farmers put these up it is not to attract deer but rather to hasten harvest, bigger farms me more storage needed. it not likly going back to the days of wooden bins. You have a hard time equating a grain pile to an oil spill IMHO.

[shedcrazy]

I have read the term "void" in this thread and how deer will migrate to it. I am curious if there is any data or research that discusses ungulate migrating to areas void of competition?
While predators are known to more to areas free of competion I can't see deer moving to areas void of deer because of lack of competition or baiting wouldn't work. While deer do move for other reason: summer/winter habitat, food/water and breeding I just can't see a herding animal move due to filling a void unless the area is at it's carrying capacity.
No doubt culled areas, over hunted areas, etc fill back in but is that from survivors reproducing or some migration for no real reason but to fill a void.
I am interested in any articles that are out there on the topic as to be honest I just can't understand that train of thought.

[NIKON]

I found this article interesting , It's dated 2006 so a bit out dated but interesting some of the history of Colorado deer cull

With CWD rates static, practice of culling deer and elk will stop

Tuesday, March 14, 2006

With statewide infection rates of chronic wasting disease in big game not showing much change a half-decade after the Colorado Division of Wildlife began killing infected deer and elk, the practice will stop.

The infection rate of deer continues to be anywhere from less than 1 percent up to 10 percent of the local populations, with the heaviest infections on the Front Range in what’s known as the endemic area.

Meanwhile, elk show markedly lower signs of infection, from less than 1 to about 2.6 percent of the local population. Most of the CWD occurring in elk is found in the northwestern quarter of the state.

The DOW has made the decision to halt culling of suspected CWD-infected animals a half-decade after the treatment was considered the easiest way to stop the disease from spreading to wild animals and domestic livestock.

However, subsequent outbreaks of the disease along with its continued presence in well-known hot spots has convinced wildlife managers, at least for now, that culling isn’t the way to control CWD.

"Our results (from culling operations) are really ambiguous," said Mike Miller, state veterinarian for the DOW and a well-respected CWD researcher. "For every place where (disease) prevalency went down in our treated areas you could find another example where the prevalence was higher in an area we had culled than in a control (unculled) area."

Miller said the culling programs showed "no clear evidence of any kind of beneficial affect" on CWD control.

"If and when we re-institute culling, the work will be under a different framework," said Miller, citing a "lack of consistency" in how culling was done. "We gave it a good effort and at the time it was the responsible thing to do."

Other states, including Wisconsin, will continue their culling efforts.

The DOW did its first culling in the spring of 2002, said DOW culling coordinator Fred Quarterone. Most of the culling was done in mule deer herds along the Front Range, particularly in an area in north-central Colorado where the disease is thought to have existed for nearly 30 years.

The only culling done on the Western Slope, and the only culling that involved elk, was conducted in March of that year on and around the Motherwell Ranch south of Hayden.

When three wild mule deer were discovered to be infected with the disease at the Motherwell Ranch, DOW employees killed 1,033 deer within a five-mile radius of the ranch. Of those, 10 tested positive for the disease, a less-than-1-percent infection rate.

None of the 135 wild elk also killed yielded positive results.

Quarterone said the DOW has killed about 200 deer each of the past several years, all on the Front Range.

Studies by the DOW indicate that from 2002 to 2005, 18 of the state’s 55 deer Data Analysis Units (composed of one or more game management units) reported at least one case of chronic wasting disease and 11 of the 46 elk DAUs saw at least one case.

Hunters have been asked, and at times required, to submit the heads of deer or elk they killed to the DOW for testing. After initially getting some good response from hunters, recent years have shown a sharp decline in submissions.

It’s not clear whether hunters are weary of turning in submissions or, because the occurrence of CWD is relatively rare, if they simply believe CWD isn’t anything to worry about.

Whatever the cause, the lack of samples leads to an inability on the part of the DOW to follow the development of CWD.

"The vast majority of animals are not infected with chronic wasting disease," Miller said. "But I wish I knew what is was that motivates people to stop turning (samples) in. It’s our best way of tracking the disease."
http://www.cwd.cc/With_CWD_rates_sta..._will_stop.htm

[NIKON]

Heres a more recent article, Nov 6th 2012

Wyoming won't cull deer ?...... I wonder why , read on

http://wildliferesearchnews.wordpres...ter-cwd-found/

[NIKON]

Deer Hunt Area 132 Near Green River Added to CWD List

10/23/2012

GREEN RIVER - Chronic wasting disease (CWD), a fatal neurological disease of deer, elk, and moose, has been discovered in deer hunt area 132.

Green River Wildlife Management Coordinator Mark Zornes said this case involved a mule deer doe that was collected within a half mile of the Green River Game and Fish Regional Office because it was emaciated and in poor body condition. The doe was euthanized and submitted for testing.

“This is the first time we have found CWD in this hunt area,” Zornes said. “However, the occurrence of CWD in Green River is not a huge surprise. CWD has been documented in Utah near the Wyoming border, about 40 miles to the south.”

CWD is not known to be a disease of humans and presents no known public health significance at this time. Nonetheless, to avoid risk, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends that people avoid eating meat from deer and elk that look sick or that test positive for CWD.

The Game and Fish continues to collect samples through hunter field checks and at CWD sampling stations. More than 4,000 CWD samples are collected annually throughout the state.

“There are no methods that have been proven effective in stopping the expansion of CWD, although a number of things have been tried in other states,” said Eric Keszler, Game and Fish assistant Services Division chief. “Recent research in Wisconsin and Colorado has shown that large-scale culling of animals is ineffective in stopping the spread of the disease or reducing its prevalence. Currently, the Wyoming Game and Fish Department is monitoring the disease, conducting various research projects to understand more about CWD, and educating the public on the presence of the disease and what it means for wildlife and people. The department is committed to using the best available science to manage this disease in a manner that makes sense for the wildlife and people of Wyoming.”

For more information about CWD in Wyoming, visit the Game and Fish website at: wgfd.wyo.gov. For more information about CWD in North America, visit the CWD Alliance website at: www.cwd-info.org/.

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/news-1001042.aspx

[Lefty-Canuck]

I always thought the official word on CWD was that moose could not get it...now they are stating that moose can? Based on NIKON's post above....

Do the moose taken in Wainwright Base hunts get tested?

LC

[Speckle55]

hhhhhmmmmm i wonder if culling works... with the proper controls and action plan.. yep it works culling as posted

Food for Thought

David

A Wyoming Game & Fish Department press release says that the state will not try to reduce the number of deer in the area where the diseased deer was found. This technique was successfully used in New York State, which may be the only place CWD has been eradicated after it had been found in wild deer populations


Nuff Said

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

hhhhhmmmmm i wonder if culling works... with the proper controls and action plan.. yep it works culling as posted

Food for Thought

David

A Wyoming Game & Fish Department press release says that the state will not try to reduce the number of deer in the area where the diseased deer was found. This technique was successfully used in New York State, which may be the only place CWD has been eradicated after it had been found in wild deer populations


Nuff Said

LMAO.....way to pick and choose David....well done

Did you read the rest about places NOT CULLING ANYMORE....because....wait for it.....it doesn't work!

LC

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I always thought the official word on CWD was that moose could not get it...now they are stating that moose can? Based on NIKON's post above....

Do the moose taken in Wainwright Base hunts get tested?

LC

yes moose can get CWD and have for years now in Colarado i think its at 4 Moose now and one was 50 miles from a know CWD infection area

there was thought to be a barrier so Moose should be safe (not)

David

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

hhhhhmmmmm i wonder if culling works... with the proper controls and action plan.. yep it works culling as posted

Food for Thought

David

A Wyoming Game & Fish Department press release says that the state will not try to reduce the number of deer in the area where the diseased deer was found. This technique was successfully used in New York State, which may be the only place CWD has been eradicated after it had been found in wild deer populations


Nuff Said

“There are no methods that have been proven effective in stopping the expansion of CWD, although a number of things have been tried in other states,” said Eric Keszler, Game and Fish assistant Services Division chief. [U]“Recent research in Wisconsin and Colorado has shown that large-scale culling of animals is ineffective in stopping the spread of the disease or reducing its prevalence.[/U] Currently, the Wyoming Game and Fish Department is monitoring the disease, conducting various research projects to understand more about CWD, and educating the public on the presence of the disease and what it means for wildlife and people. The department is committed to using the best available science to manage this disease in a manner that makes sense for the wildlife and people of Wyoming.”

Lets learn from our southern neighbors , and end the senseless slaughter

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

LMAO.....way to pick and choose David....well done

Did you read the rest about places NOT CULLING ANYMORE....because....wait for it.....it doesn't work!

LC

notice how i have allways said the experts said there is only one way to stop it and putting a actiion plan with muliple action one being culling ..

Val Giest said 100 % or moot which is what New York State did in infective area

Wyo and Col have 2% to 12.8 or higher in some spots and they call it a epedimic.. and have given up for now but may still use it in certain areas and are still watching other states and provinces as they do their action plans

but as the previous post stated the only state to stop CWD used culling and got the job done with proper controls and follow-up

David

[Lefty-Canuck]

Just look past the option of a cull David....it is no longer on the table....we are past that point currently in Alberta. I think that is safe to say.

Especially since our nearest neighbours to the East no longer employ that method of control.

LC

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Just look past the option of a cull David....it is no longer on the table....we are past that point currently in Alberta. I think that is safe to say.

Especially since our nearest neighbours to the East no longer employ that method of control.

LC

we will change the name and call it a hunt and open up to shoot a deer a day as in some states and then give out more tags with special liciences/doe's draws and maybe use contractors to do certain hot spots like they are doing in Col .. its not called a CWD cull its call a Ungulate number CULL in Rocky Mountain National Park .. just that some have a 25% infection rate reported in herds.. as the high numbers are doing damage to the ecosystem.. the contractor was to come in at night after dark and useing a silencer take out x number of Elk in Park and Este Park area

they have take out 131 in report

David

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1899309.html

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Speckle55;1756253[B

]we will change the name and call it a hunt and open up to shoot a deer a day[/B] as in some states and then give ouit more tags with special liciences/does draws and maybe use contractors to do certain hot spots like tghey are doing in Col .. its not called a CWD cull its call a Ungulate number CULL in Rocky Mountain National Park .. just that some have a 25% infection rate reported in herds.. as the high numbers are doing damage to the ecosystem.. the contractor was to come in at night after dark and useing a slientcer take out x number of Elk in Park and Este Park area

David

LOLOL....they tried that too and it didn't work.....ummmm remeber longer seasons and unlimited tags?? Then recently they have cut back seasons and tags in affected areas, why is that do you suppose?

So now we should break further established laws and hunt with suppressors? AND in the dark? (not like they didn't shoot deer from choppers with sub-legal caliber rifles already....).

Does the sun always shine in your world?

LC

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by NIKON

I rest my case , u continue to deflect the facts... bury your head in the sand , go right ahead
I want you to answer this question without throwing up a link or deflecting the issue.... Knowing with low percentages you need 1000's not hundreds of samples to prove a handful of cwd positives..... Proven along the border... Knowing this can you say with 100% confidence cwd doesn't exist west of the border knowing cwd was found in domesticated deer and elk farms west of the border around edmonton.... Yes or No ?... Not based on what Margo recommended , but what you believe makes sense, based on what was proven along the border

Food for thought

David avoiding the hard questions once again
I was actually hoping for a response but the silence is deafening

Nikon

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by NIKON

David avoiding the hard questions once again
I was actually hoping for a response but the silence is deafening

Nikon

Don't hold your breath on getting any answer that fits the context of the conversation....you will just get quotes about CDC and BSE control protocols overseas...

As stimulating as this is I am out for the night

LC