Pierre threatens non-confidence motion

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Don't take this the wrong way, but the way some cling to political parties is what is wrong with politics these days.

Pierre is throwing around numbers like 23% come April first to scare voters, sounds similar to what Danni did with the APP.

Pierre calls a non-confidence vote, then does not attend in person.

If Pierre wants to win, he needs to change the mind of the voter. To change the mind of the voter, we need a plan, not a slogan. These same voters that are needed to change our political landscape won't appreciate a non-confidence vote where he didn't bother to attend. These voters do care about the environment, so not having a plan again does not secure their confidence in a different party.

Pierre has a chance as the majority of voters are swimming in debt, this alone won't win a majority government which is what is needed to force change.

Carbon tax on gasoline is around 14ish cents and going to over 17 cents.
23% increase sounds about right to me. Don't have a calculator handy

Same increase every year for another 6 years yet. Ouch

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dylan15

Why would Pierre reveal his plans before an election is called? This would be tipping his hand. The election is over a year and a half away, best not to give out your ideas, or your opponents a chance to dissect your arguments in advance. People need to understand this. His platform will (hopefully as in the past) reveal everything. He would only hurt his chances by putting details out. He still has a lot of time to consult, listen, and finalize, and I would expect his team to be working on that. A year and a half is a very
long time from now. What bothers us today, may not be relevant at election time. We all need to cool our jets on
saying he's useless and worrying. Would you show your
poker hand before you need to?

Exactly!

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Conservatives are as gaga over him as liberals are over Trudeau. Makes me laugh if not cry.

Anyone that is still gaga over Trudeau needs their head examined. I had a lot more respect for them until I watch the proceedings in the house, unbelievable lies, refusing to answer a direct questions, bla bla bla is all you hear from them. And Jagmeet selling out the NDP, it's sickening.

The only one that makes any sense is PP.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Dylan15

Why would Pierre reveal his plans before an election is called? This would be tipping his hand. The election is over a year and a half away, best not to give out your ideas, or your opponents a chance to dissect your arguments in advance. People need to understand this. His platform will (hopefully as in the past) reveal everything. He would only hurt his chances by putting details out. He still has a lot of time to consult, listen, and finalize, and I would expect his team to be working on that. A year and a half is a very long time from now. What bothers us today, may not be relevant at election time. We all need to cool our jets on saying he's useless and worrying. Would you show your poker hand before you need to?

If Pierre has a plan, why wouldn't he release it is the question... Are these politicians not accountable to we the people, your children and their children's future ?

I disagree he would hurt his chances, if his ideas are our salvation, he will be rewarded for these. The carbon tax has been around since 2007 / 8, there better be a plan, what are the Conservatives waiting for ?

This is politics, not a poker game. Hope you realize the voters he needs to attract don't follow politics, they simply vote on feeling... So waiting to show your cards is foolish, if there is a plan let it out and lets discuss the future and attract voters to solidify a majority government.

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Carbon tax on gasoline is around 14ish cents and going to over 17 cents.
23% increase sounds about right to me. Don't have a calculator handy

Same increase every year for another 6 years yet. Ouch

So, what sounds better, April 1st gasoline will rise .03 or 23% increase ? Fear tactics are just that, I don't feel manipulating numbers is good business, but that's just my take on things.

[JB_AOL]

This is politics, not a poker game. Hope you realize the voters he needs to attract don't follow politics, they simply vote on feeling... So waiting to show your cards is foolish, if there is a plan let it out and lets discuss the future and attract voters to solidify a majority government

And this is the exact reason he won't release his plans..

Trudeau will literally just give out money to buy more votes, and most voters who don't follow politics don't understand where that money is coming from. BUT.. turd just bought a vote.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Conservatives are as gaga over him as liberals are over Trudeau. Makes me laugh if not cry.

Gaga nope only see him as better than the alternatives

Open to a better option if it exists. Any suggestions?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

If Pierre has a plan, why wouldn't he release it is the question... Are these politicians not accountable to we the people, your children and their children's future ?

I disagree he would hurt his chances, if his ideas are our salvation, he will be rewarded for these. The carbon tax has been around since 2007 / 8, there better be a plan, what are the Conservatives waiting for ?
This is politics, not a poker game. Hope you realize the voters he needs to attract don't follow politics, they simply vote on feeling... So waiting to show your cards is foolish, if there is a plan let it out and lets discuss the
future and attract voters to solidify a majority
government.
So, what sounds better, April 1st gasoline will rise .03 or 23% increase ? Fear tactics are just that, I don't feel manipulating numbers is good business, but that's just my take on things.

Politics is a game, a complex game, where you are better off keeping your plan to yourself until the campaign begins. If you give your opposition over a year's notice of your plan, they have over a year to try and dream up a plan to discredit your plan. As for the 23%, are you claiming that the number isn't correct? The liberals would like people to think that three cents isn't significant, but an increase of 23% certainly is significant.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Politics is a game, a complex game, where you are better off keeping your plan to yourself until the campaign begins. If you give your opposition over a year's notice of your plan, they have over a year to try and dream up a plan to discredit your plan. As for the 23%, are you claiming that the number isn't correct? The liberals would like people to think that three cents isn't significant, but an increase of 23% certainly is significant.

Ah, games are for children, this is our future. Why people accept games from those who run our country and make policy is beyond me. I don't appreciate paying for others to play games with my money and future.

Many people apply the 23% to the pump price, this is incorrect. It's another game used to bolster a position, again these politicians need to be put in check and use factual numbers people understand.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Don't take this the wrong way, but the way some cling to political parties is what is wrong with politics these days.

Pierre is throwing around numbers like 23% come April first to scare voters, sounds similar to what Danni did with the APP.

Pierre calls a non-confidence vote, then does not attend in person.

If Pierre wants to win, he needs to change the mind of the voter. To change the mind of the voter, we need a plan, not a slogan. These same voters that are needed to change our political landscape won't appreciate a non-confidence vote where he didn't bother to attend. These voters do care about the environment, so not having a plan again does not secure their confidence in a different party.

Pierre has a chance as the majority of voters are swimming in debt, this alone won't win a majority government which is what is needed to force change.

How much is the carbon tax increase on April 1?
The current carbon pricing stands at C$65 per tonne, slated to rise to C$80 per tonne on April 1. Then it will increase annually thereafter by C$15 until reaching C$170 per tonne by 2030. Price in Canadian dollars.

23% Not sure what part of that you are not understanding/having a problem with? If I was Pierre I would continue to do exactly what he is doing now, drawing attention to the pain of citizens. Axing the tax is a plan by the way. It will get fleshed out when the writ is dropped, why would he say what the plan is now. If green energy is more efficient, if it is not now I believe it will soon be, you can bet the farm energy companies will be using it, capitalism on display.

[AxeMan]

Axeman says AXE THE TAX!

So I for one would like Shedhead to explain to us the virtues of this carbon tax in his own words. I would even like to hear why he would think that this tax is better than no plan at all. Sorry man, and I hate to lay this on you because I do think you are a thoughtful and intelligent person, but your posts do come across as a defence of Trudeau's plan. I will check back tonight.

[elkoholik]

Reading this thread has high lighted exactly what is wrong with Canada. People don't understand the logic behind what PP is doing they are just reacting emotionally. Unfortunately we have be programmed to be more emotionally reactive vs logic thinking. What just happened makes sense, call out and put the light on those that will follow Trudeau and Singh blindly for their own benefit not those they represent. As for the 23% that is the actual increase so he is calling it what it is, it is not fear mongering it is stats. Again people have to look at the big picture, take the facts presented and logically think through vs our initial emotional reaction. As hard as it is we need to go back to our logic portion of our brain. Social media and the mis information we are fed through the media has sculpted us to become short term and emotional responsive.

[Sundog57]

So I'm wondering what plan you might be looking for?
The Carbon Tax is not about reducing carbon consumption - it is just another example of the Clown Prince posing (and sticking his hand into your pocket for more money to p!ss away while simultaneously making Canadian industry noncompetitive in the international market.)
Canada and Canadian business are already well down the path of carbon reduction. The current regime has blocked the most pragmatic means of carbon reduction, which would be allowing coal fired thermal plants to be rolled over to natural gas. Fugitive methane emissions can be dealt with through catalytic burners in the exhaust stream and the heat recaptured.
This would assure that the lights still go on when folks flip the switch.
Unfortunately the current gang of clowns are led by an ideologue who has no grasp of either economics or practicality) and who is stuck on the idea that fossil fuel use must be punished (except if he needs to fly off to a conference somewhere to pontificate on why fossil fuel is bad) sadly, he has so far been unable to contact Harry Potter to aid in his quest for zero emissions electricity.

Poillievre has said that they will scrap the tax and will encourage companies to invest in low carbon technologies including micro nuclear all this without killing the Canadian economy.
What's not to like?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Ah, games are for children, this is our future. Why people accept games from those who run our country and make policy is beyond me. I don't appreciate paying for others to play games with my money and future.

Many people apply the 23% to the pump price, this is incorrect. It's another game used to bolster a position, again these politicians need to be put in check and use factual numbers people understand.

Unfortunately, politics is a game, it always has been, and it always will be, and there is really no way to change that.
As the the people that aren't paying attention, and that can't figure out what a 23% increase in the carbon tax is, those are the type of people that elected Trudeau three times.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

How much is the carbon tax increase on April 1?
The current carbon pricing stands at C$65 per tonne, slated to rise to C$80 per tonne on April 1. Then it will increase annually thereafter by C$15 until reaching C$170 per tonne by 2030. Price in Canadian dollars.

23% Not sure what part of that you are not understanding/having a problem with? If I was Pierre I would continue to do exactly what he is doing now, drawing attention to the pain of citizens. Axing the tax is a plan by the way. It will get fleshed out when the writ is dropped, why would he say what the plan is now. If green energy is more efficient, if it is not now I believe it will soon be, you can bet the farm energy companies will be using it, capitalism on display.

I don't have a problem myself with the numbers, If politicians explained as you have, there is no confusion. Unfortunately they don't and here lies the problem.

It's like some of you feel Pierre's plan is proprietary and he will paten the idea You do realize that if the conservatives get elected, there plan will be scrutinized by all. I guess we are so use to the system we just accept inept governance by all.

Originally Posted by AxeMan

Axeman says AXE THE TAX!

So I for one would like Shedhead to explain to us the virtues of this carbon tax in his own words. I would even like to hear why he would think that this tax is better than no plan at all. Sorry man, and I hate to lay this on you because I do think you are a thoughtful and intelligent person, but your posts do come across as a defence of Trudeau's plan. I will check back tonight.

I'm not sure what Shedhead's take is but mine is the carbon tax is simple to implement and an incentive to for people and businesses to pollute less.

Does it work, yes and no. The plan has pushed other technologies in the right direction, but at the same time created greater wealth division. There is good and bad in everything, I do not support Trudeau, nor the tax. The older I get, the more concerned I am for the future of our country and our children. I don't like games especially when it affects my family.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

I disagree he would hurt his chances, if his ideas are our salvation, he will be rewarded for these. The carbon tax has been around since 2007 / 8, there better be a plan, what are the Conservatives waiting



So, what sounds better, April 1st gasoline will rise .03 or 23% increase ? Fear tactics are just that, I don't feel manipulating numbers is good business, but that's just my take on things.

You have my attention. Please show me the carbon tax I was paying in 2007

Secondly the carbon tax is absolutely going up 23% not 3 cents on April 1st. This is not a scare tactic. If you want to challenge that put your money where your mouth is and guarantee all canadians that the carbon tax is going up 3 cents. So if NG goes up its 23% and equates to more than 3 cents will you cover it? How about coal is it going up 3 cents? Heating oil will only be 3 cents? Diesel? Propane? Its going up 23% not 3 cents.

You need to actually read or get informed about all of the plans PP has already laid out, you won’t read about them in the LPC pamphlets you receive from your party of choice.

Also you have said a few times that cancelling it with no plan is a bad idea as a solution is needed. The cancelling is the solution. Nothing else needed.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

I



So, what sounds better, April 1st gasoline will rise .03 or 23% increase ? Fear tactics are just that, I don't feel manipulating numbers is good business, but that's just my take on things.

Why is that manipulating numbers? It's going up 23%. Same as next year, year after, year after.......
It's kinda facts. Saying 3 cents would be more of a libber or dipper tactic, makes it sound smaller I suppose. Easy to pull the wool over voters eyes. Kinda like mailing out rebate checks rather than knocking it off your taxes lol.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

I don't have a problem myself with the numbers, If politicians explained as you have, there is no confusion. Unfortunately they don't and here lies the problem.

Just because you didn’t hear it doesn’t mean he, and Harper before him, haven’t said it multiple times. How do you think the rest of us already knew that. Once again your LPC pamphlets and CBC are never going to tell you this.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Why is that manipulating numbers? It's going up 23%. Same as next year, year after, year after.......
It's kinda facts. Saying 3 cents would be more of a libber or dipper tactic, makes it sound smaller I suppose. Easy to pull the wool over voters eyes. Kinda like mailing out rebate checks rather than knocking it off your taxes lol.

They can’t take it off of taxes. The leeches wouldn’t get anything then.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Unfortunately, politics is a game, it always has been, and it always will be, and there is really no way to change that.
As the the people that aren't paying attention, and that can't figure out what a 23% increase in the carbon tax is, those are the type of people that elected Trudeau three times.

Lol. Sad but true.
Over 1/3 of the voting population sure drags down the average IQ of Canadians

[KGB]

I am really sick and tired of this climate emergency bs or this carbon capture/reduction bs. Carbon -or CO2 - is not a pollutant! It is absolutely necessary to sustain the life on the planet! More co2 is better! We don’t need to build the underground storages for it, this is a pure madness and a huge waste of money!

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by KGB

I am really sick and tired of this climate emergency bs or this carbon capture/reduction bs. Carbon -or CO2 - is not a pollutant! It is absolutely necessary to sustain the life on the planet! More co2 is better! We don’t need to build the underground storages for it, this is a pure madness and a huge waste of money!

I read somewhere recently that our atmosphere consists of .04% carbon dioxide. We need .02% to sustain plant life. Carbon tax is a WEF idea to distribute to the rich. The little kick back they give to those less fortunate, keep them in power.

BW

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Unfortunately, politics is a game, it always has been, and it always will be, and there is really no way to change that.
As the the people that aren't paying attention, and that can't figure out what a 23% increase in the carbon tax is, those are the type of people that elected Trudeau three times.

Of interest, the price increase on this tax is not linear. It is more complicated than simply adding numbers as the rebates need to be applied to individual contributions to accurately provide factual increases.

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

You have my attention. Please show me the carbon tax I was paying in 2007

Secondly the carbon tax is absolutely going up 23% not 3 cents on April 1st. This is not a scare tactic. If you want to challenge that put your money where your mouth is and guarantee all canadians that the carbon tax is going up 3 cents. So if NG goes up its 23% and equates to more than 3 cents will you cover it? How about coal is it going up 3 cents? Heating oil will only be 3 cents? Diesel? Propane? Its going up 23% not 3 cents.

You need to actually read or get informed about all of the plans PP has already laid out, you won’t read about them in the LPC pamphlets you receive from your party of choice.

Also you have said a few times that cancelling it with no plan is a bad idea as a solution is needed. The cancelling is the solution. Nothing else needed.

I may be wrong, but I think it was Quebec in 2007 that placed a price on carbon first...

See my response to Elk above, the tax is not linear. What about the eastern provinces where the carbon pricing was relaxed on heating oils, is this 23% ?

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Why is that manipulating numbers? It's going up 23%. Same as next year, year after, year after.......
It's kinda facts. Saying 3 cents would be more of a libber or dipper tactic, makes it sound smaller I suppose. Easy to pull the wool over voters eyes. Kinda like mailing out rebate checks rather than knocking it off your taxes lol.

Again, see above replies. It's not cut and dry by no means.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

I read somewhere recently that our atmosphere consists of .04% carbon dioxide. We need .02% to sustain plant life. Carbon tax is a WEF idea to distribute to the rich. The little kick back they give to those less fortunate, keep them in power.

BW

Yep.
https://youtu.be/5lXsAo27r30?si=KJDNHVdYH34-XWoh
https://youtu.be/MKcBM5gaFEk?si=LlGaeEA5o8bqmJD7

[pikergolf]

The way the Liberals explain the carbon tax it doesn't even sound that bad, you pay and you get a rebate. But that is not the whole picture. Businesses also pay the tax and they don't get a rebate. So lets use a loaf of bread as an example, the seed producer pays the tax on drying, treating and moving the seed, the farmer pays the tax on getting the seed to his fields and all associated costs with raising the crop and getting it to market. The flour mill pays the tax on their energy usage, the bakery pays the carbon tax on the energy usage and delivering to the grocery store, and the grocery store pays it to heat and light their building. So that grain has been carbon taxed how many times before it gets to the consumer? Guess who pays those costs? The people were willing to give it a try, but now they are hurting, I mean really hurting.

And of course the government blames it on those rich greedy corporations, and those that hate successful people eat that like mana from heaven.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

I may be wrong, but I think it was Quebec in 2007 that placed a price on carbon first...

See my response to Elk above, the tax is not linear. What about the eastern provinces where the carbon pricing was relaxed on heating oils, is this 23% ?

What does a provincial policy in Quebec have to do with Canadians paying carbon taxes in 2007 as you said?

Yes the price of heating oil goes up this year by 23%, your Liberals aren’t collecting it for political reasons. Its also canada wide and it wasn’t relaxed, it was postponed.

What are you carrying on about linear? It goes up every year until it maxes out in 2030; then they likely increase it to 2040 and it has achieved zero. Even your Liberals can’t answer how much carbon it has reduced, which is none.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

I don't have a problem myself with the numbers, If politicians explained as you have, there is no confusion. Unfortunately they don't and here lies the problem.

It's like some of you feel Pierre's plan is proprietary and he will paten the idea You do realize that if the conservatives get elected, there plan will be scrutinized by all. I guess we are so use to the system we just accept inept governance by all.




I'm not sure what Shedhead's take is but mine is the carbon tax is simple to implement and an incentive to for people and businesses to pollute less.

Does it work, yes and no. The plan has pushed other technologies in the right direction, but at the same time created greater wealth division. There is good and bad in everything, I do not support Trudeau, nor the tax. The older I get, the more concerned I am for the future of our country and our children. I don't like games especially when it affects my family.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

And the normal reaction ^^^ I really don't want to hear the truth. So I will run away. If you and others did pay attention. Pierre and the CPP do have a plan, if your willing to listen.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

What does a provincial policy in Quebec have to do with Canadians paying carbon taxes in 2007 as you said?

Yes the price of heating oil goes up this year by 23%, your Liberals aren’t collecting it for political reasons. Its also canada wide and it wasn’t relaxed, it was postponed.

What are you carrying on about linear? It goes up every year until it maxes out in 2030; then they likely increase it to 2040 and it has achieved zero. Even your Liberals can’t answer how much carbon it has reduced, which is none.

What country is Quebec in ? Last time I looked they were part of Canada.

Lets get something straight here, I do not support the Liberals. I used the term relaxed to describe the heating oil situation in the Atlantic provinces, some call it a retreat, you call it postponed. I think you got the point but want to be argumentative.

Explain to me how Atlantic Canada pays equal taxation to heat their homes than we do in west ? They don't because the carbon tax on heating oils was "postponed" so it does not apply to their heating bills. So how can this tax be linear ? Another example would be myself, I live rural and consume more gasoline than many who live in the city. Some of these city people live in apartments, don't have cars and their utilities are included in rent. Guess what, they receive rebates most likely greater than the direct cost of this carbon tax. Where is this linear to my situation ?

Yes the increase in the carbon tax is set per ton, but the effects to individuals is not linear period.

Have a good one.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

And the normal reaction ^^^ I really don't want to hear the truth. So I will run away. If you and others did pay attention. Pierre and the CPP do have a plan, if your willing to listen.

You are more than welcome to post the plan. I'm surprised someone hasn't

[walking buffalo]

A brief recap of PP's general plan for when he is voted PM.

Absolutely nothing he hasn't said Many times before.
More detailed responses have been made by PP many times in the past.

If you haven't heard this before, then you weren't listening or only watch/read media that will not or print show it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPrCbHx6rNg

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

What country is Quebec in ? Last time I looked they were part of Canada.

Lets get something straight here, I do not support the Liberals. I used the term relaxed to describe the heating oil situation in the Atlantic provinces, some call it a retreat, you call it postponed. I think you got the point but want to be argumentative.

Explain to me how Atlantic Canada pays equal taxation to heat their homes than we do in west ? They don't because the carbon tax on heating oils was "postponed" so it does not apply to their heating bills. So how can this tax be linear ? Another example would be myself, I live rural and consume more gasoline than many who live in the city. Some of these city people live in apartments, don't have cars and their utilities are included in rent. Guess what, they receive rebates most likely greater than the direct cost of this carbon tax. Where is this linear to my situation ?

Yes the increase in the carbon tax is set per ton, but the effects to individuals is not linear period.

Have a good one.

As I said, how does a provincial policy effect Canadians? What did QC’s carbon tax of 07 effect you? Assuming you were in AB in 2007? So why do we need a plan to replace the carbon tax that didn’t exist in 2015?

Linear has nothing to do with anything. Its a consumption tax. You consume carbon, you pay, then justin sends cheques to leeches and the ill-informed and they think its a wonderful idea. Where did you ever think you got reimbursed on your consumption? It was never revenue neutral, that is just what you LPC pamphlets said.

So Atlantic Canada pays exactly the same amount to heat their homes as us. So if you are in Nova Scotia and use NG you pay the same carbon tax as an Albertan heating with NG. Now if you use heating oil in Newfoundland you pay the same carbon tax as an Albertan heating their house with heating oil; which currently is 0 until after the 2025 election. It just so happens that 85% of heating oil consumed in Canada is used on the east coast by leeches that vote for bribes. If you want to reduce your carbon tax convert your furnace to heating oil, you won’t have to pay carbon tax on it either.