Who practices/shoots long...longer than 70?

[Stinky Coyote]

Just curious if any 70-100 yrd practicers out there and what arrow configurations you've tested your way to get the accuracy your happy with?

foc?
fletching type?
offset or helical?
total weight?
broadhead or field point?
which broadhead if so?
velocity if you know it?

i'm understanding that 12% or higher foc's are helping tighten things up long and not sure on helical or offset with blazers yet, can't seem to find any info on long range work between offset/helical with blazers....the general consensus i'm getting for usual up to 60 yrd stuff is offset is plenty on blazers, one test i did find in velocity difference between offset/helical at 50 yrds was offset was 4 fps faster so there is more drag on the helical which will stabalize a bit better but guessing that if you can fly well to 100 with offset then why lose speed if you don't have too?

i shoot 10+% foc currently and 100gr montecs with offset blazers to 70 yrds very happy with accuracy and never spent enough time at 80 or 90 etc. but little bit of shooting i did at those distances i didn't get enough of a group size to have any confidence in etc. i hit my buck everytime but not middle of kill like i was doing at 70

thinking of going to 50 gr brass inserts with my new maxima 350s and offset blazers to start and 100 gr montecs again, this should put foc around 14.2% and total arrow weight between near 410 grains so should have a good blend of speed/ke/foc just not sure how much helical might help over the offset especially with the stiff little blazers which seem to grab air quickly in offset? so any experience from guys who've played at these ranges to get broadheads/arrows to group etc. would be much appreciated

sc

[gunner72]

Me and my buddy's always take a few shots at 70-80-100 just for fun.I shoot a switchback and i only shoot my hunting arrows 300 with 100gr field tips, nothing fancy. there going about 290 fps. I have 5 pin hammer head sights with a hole in the bottom that i think is for a level, but if i look threw my peep and that hole i'll hit my bag at 100 yards every time.Most of the time a pie plate. It's fun but i don't think i would have enough energy left to try it on an animal.

[BrownBear416]

I only shoot out to 70 when i miss the target set up at 60

[JohninAB]

Awesome response BB416! Same here

[BowhuntAB]

I have a range set up to 80. We all shoot it lots. Personally is shoot the following:

PSE x weave pros.
Montec 100's
Blazers
29" DRAW X Force
322 FPS

I love shooting at these distances because you can really see just how tuned your bow is and how your form and release is. Any mess ups the arrow shows it.

Usually i personally am shooting 3-4" groups at 80. Pretty good i think.

[russ]

ACE 430's 100 grain points 12% FOC for now 1.75" vanes. Changing to Carbon Express Nano Pro's with 100gr points & 1.75" vanes in the spring. This is also a bow that strictly set up for FITA though. I don't shoot my hunting rig past 60 much.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

I have a range set up to 80. We all shoot it lots. Personally is shoot the following:

PSE x weave pros.
Montec 100's
Blazers
29" DRAW X Force
322 FPS

I love shooting at these distances because you can really see just how tuned your bow is and how your form and release is. Any mess ups the arrow shows it.

Usually i personally am shooting 3-4" groups at 80. Pretty good i think.

yup, thats pretty good alright, lots would probably be happy with that at half the distance

i'm going to push myself a little further this season so the goal is proficient at 100 yrds so trying to learn as much from those who've done some trial and error to figure out what set ups work better for long range work so i don't have to learn too many lessons myself on the way there

[BowhuntAB]

We shoot long range like this daily when the weather is nice. Its amazing when you practice at long range how easy 40 yrds gets. I find the long range shooting helps keep your form good and steady. Plus its fun as hell.

[Rutin]

hey Russ,
can you explain the FOC, what is it and how do you change it , and do you need some set up to measure it?

thanks

[russ]

this will help

http://archeryreport.com/articles/arrow-foc-calculate/

[Stinky Coyote]

and i just found another write up on foc that says higher foc's make it easier for the fletching to do its job which i thought was interesting...

my end goal is to drive montecs with blazers to decent 100 yrd accuracy or repeatablility if i do my part so the foc and fletching info is what i'm trying to pay most attention too and trying to find guys who've done the testing of different set ups to figure out what works for them at those ranges....

so far my homework says i could be happy with a couple different set ups but more likely with say helical on the blazers instead of offset however offset might do great job if i run those 50 grain inserts instead of 11 gr and get my foc up to 14.2% vs 10.8 sort of thing, so the higher foc might do quite a bit more for my groups for a couple reasons? i may still have to experiment a bit as its tough to find the exact kind of info i'm looking for

[russ]

Actually stinky I think I would pass on the blazers for extended range, their trick to increasing stability is increased drag. It's the same with feathers, which is what I've used the last couple of years. I have the same short range gains as blazers but no clearance issues and water proofing them is quite simple and since it doesn't rain here anyway Personally, if I wanted to get good flight characteristics out of an arrow at long range I'd use a standard 4" vane with a bit of offset. The Montecs have flown quite well out of every set up I've tried so far.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by russ

Actually stinky I think I would pass on the blazers for extended range, their trick to increasing stability is increased drag. It's the same with feathers, which is what I've used the last couple of years. I have the same short range gains as blazers but no clearance issues and water proofing them is quite simple and since it doesn't rain here anyway Personally, if I wanted to get good flight characteristics out of an arrow at long range I'd use a standard 4" vane with a bit of offset. The Montecs have flown quite well out of every set up I've tried so far.

I'll try the 4" vanes again. I shoot montec and found the blazer much more stable. Worth playing around with again i guess.

[Renslip]

I disagree Russ. I shoot montecs with Blazers and I am extremely accurate out to 100. They have been working great for a number of years. I am pretty fussy when I fletch and everything is perfect. To be quite honest they fly much better than when I used 4" vanes. Should add that I don't offset my vanes.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by Renslip

I disagree Russ. I shoot montecs with Blazers and I am extremely accurate out to 100. They have been working great for a number of years. I am pretty fussy when I fletch and everything is perfect. To be quite honest they fly much better than when I used 4" vanes. Should add that I don't offset my vanes.

Thats what i found as well. 4" vanes seemed much more unstable? Oh well something to play with in the coming months i guess.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Renslip

I disagree Russ. I shoot montecs with Blazers and I am extremely accurate out to 100. They have been working great for a number of years. I am pretty fussy when I fletch and everything is perfect. To be quite honest they fly much better than when I used 4" vanes. Should add that I don't offset my vanes.

straight fletch?

this is great news....

and thanks for response russ, i figured i'd be okay with decent foc and offset blazers with the montecs and i generally don't have to worry about carbon express arrows giving me any issues, i just don't want to go through the hassle of re-fletching to helical if that ends up being the majority consensus, which doesn't seem to be the case so far

[russ]

I keep getting told that helical fletching will give you grief in cross winds. Could be right I suppose, but I tend to keep my shots at a more manageable distance in higher winds.

[pottymouth]

Just curious, All you guys that practice out to 90-100 yards, is it for fun and good practice for form, or is it for practice with the hopes of drilling game at that distance?

[drenalinjunkie]

Myself and a couple of guys I shoot with went out this morning for the first outdoor shoot of the year. What an amazingly gorgeous day!!! We have been shooting at CAC all winter and all feel comfortable at 40 meters. We set out targets at 60, 70, and 80 today. The wind was dead when we started and had picked up a bit by time we were wrapping up. This was the first time I shot out past 60 and I feel good about it. All of us were shooting quite well once we had our distances set. We fletch our own arrows and all use 2" blazers and 1.5" low profile vanes. As of right now we are fletching arrows with no offset and about 1" ahead of the nock.
PSE X-force Omen- 4.5" groups @ 60m 30" draw, 67# pull
Matthews Drenalin- 4" groups @ 60m 29" draw, 65# pull
PSE Stinger- 3.5" groups @ 60m 30.5" draw, 68# pull
PSE Deerhunter- 6" groups @ 60m 28" draw, 63# pull
All in all a really fun day and really nice to be shooting outdoors again.
P.S. We called in a coyote, but only got him in to 110 meters before he caught our scent and took off.
junkie

[drenalinjunkie]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Just curious, All you guys that practice out to 90-100 yards, is it for fun and good practice for form, or is it for practice with the hopes of drilling game at that distance?

I think I would put my limit at about 80 yards for shooting game. It will take lots of practice but I feel confident that with the right conditions this shot could be taken ethically. We will see how the shooting goes over the next few months, but 90 -100 yard shots may be possible as well. For now, its all just for fun
junkie

[russ]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Just curious, All you guys that practice out to 90-100 yards, is it for fun and good practice for form, or is it for practice with the hopes of drilling game at that distance?

Strictly for form.

Honestly, the excitement of pulling an animal into range is enough to screw good form up. There's always that extra little bit of tension when it's not practice. The closest that comes to it is sudden death competition (eg. MOAS grand prix), some days you've got it, some days you're going home early to watch the hockey game.

It's why I'm a big proponent of going to 3D shoots for practice. Being a good bowhunter means shooting lots of arrows. PERIOD!

[Trav]

Originally Posted by drenalinjunkie

I think I would put my limit at about 80 yards for shooting game. It will take lots of practice but I feel confident that with the right conditions this shot could be taken ethically. We will see how the shooting goes over the next few months, but 90 -100 yard shots may be possible as well. For now, its all just for fun
junkie

just curious as to how much energy does an arrow have at 80 yards? 90 yards? 100 yards?

What is the very least that a person need to cleanly harvest an animal at any given range? or is there a set ftlbs of energy like in rifle hunting?

Just asking

Or maybe a better question is how fast is your bow shooting your arrow combos at the given distances you decide to hunt at? not going by the book but actually shooting it through the chrony at 60 yards, 70 yards, etc out to 100 yards. IF everyone is shooting groups like they say they can shooting through the chrony at a given distance should be no probs.

[drenalinjunkie]

Originally Posted by Trav

just curious as to how much energy does an arrow have at 80 yards? 90 yards? 100 yards?

What is the very least that a person need to cleanly harvest an animal at any given range? or is there a set ftlbs of energy like in rifle hunting?

Just asking

Or maybe a better question is how fast is your bow shooting your arrow combos at the given distances you decide to hunt at? not going by the book but actually shooting it through the chrony at 60 yards, 70 yards, etc out to 100 yards. IF everyone is shooting groups like they say they can shooting through the chrony at a given distance should be no probs.

My Matthews Drenalin is rated for 320fps, with my current setup (340 grain arrows, 29.25" arrow length, 29"draw, 65# pull, whisker bisquit rest, 100 grain field tip, 2" blazer vanes) I am shooting 304fps. If a guy can shoot out to 100 yards accurately and consistantly the arrow has more than enough energy to kill an animal. The arrow will hit the ground long before it loses the velocity it needs to kill.
junkie

[pottymouth]

does anyone know what that number is, required to put game down?? I'm looking for a mathamatical number here not a explaination.

[drenalinjunkie]

I found this:
http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/...tion/index.cfm
junkie

[Trav]

Originally Posted by drenalinjunkie

I found this:
http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/...tion/index.cfm
junkie

how fast is your set up at 100 yards?

We did a test on one bow rated at 340fps

at the bow the bow was going 330fps with a 360gr arrow 87 lbs of KE
bow at 20 yards same arrow was going 315 fps 79lbs of KE
bow at 30 yards same arrow was going 280fps 63lbs of KE


in 30 yards we lost 50fps and 24lbs of KE

We did not shoot any farther because of the wind after we got done doing it at 30 yards.

So if a bow starting at 330fps loses 50fps in 30 yards how much is it losing at 100 yards and how much energy is it losing at 100 yards?

just asking as I would like to know how an arrow that loses that much so fast can be considered reliable at longer distance to kill.
Junkie if you have access to a chorny could you shoot it through at say 70 yrds and let us know how fast it is going so we can see how much a typical hunting setup loses. I dont want to take a chance and shoot my chrony instead of the target at the longer distances thanks.

[russ]

My Darton Tempest which is my main hunting set-up for now launches an arrow @ 274 fps & 63.5 ft lbs, @ 100 yds it's down to 208 and 35 ft lbs.

My Maverick starts @ 282 fps & 65 and ends up @ 231 & 44 ft lbs.

Honestly guys, if you're planning on hunting @ these yardages please don't. We've taken a lot of knocks out here in the east country because of this sort of foolishness. There's a whole lot of area here where I can't hunt because some dough head thought that a 70 yd shot on an elk was ethical because he practiced @ that range. He shot, it took a step (his story) and he hit it in the ass. Landowners observed the animal for several days suffering and once that got around it was over for the bowhunters.

[Trav]

Originally Posted by russ

My Darton Tempest which is my main hunting set-up for now launches an arrow @ 274 fps & 63.5 ft lbs, @ 100 yds it's down to 208 and 35 ft lbs.

My Maverick starts @ 282 fps & 65 and ends up @ 231 & 44 ft lbs.

Honestly guys, if you're planning on hunting @ these yardages please don't. We've taken a lot of knocks out here in the east country because of this sort of foolishness. There's a whole lot of area here where I can't hunt because some dough head thought that a 70 yd shot on an elk was ethical because he practiced @ that range. He shot, it took a step (his story) and he hit it in the ass. Landowners observed the animal for several days suffering and once that got around it was over for the bowhunters.

I agree 100% Russ in the last two years I have harvested almost 30 animals with my bow and not one has been over 25 yards. There is a guy up here that shoots at animals at 80 yards, he is one of the best customers for the local archery shop there is he keeps losing his arrows and broadheads, unfortunately I dont know how many animals he has left because he says he has hit them but at that distance it would not hurt them to much???????? he is making us as bowhunters look like slobs. Practice at what ever distance you can to make you a better shot at closer range. I personally Practice at 70 meters all summer long with my compound and 50 yards with my barebow recurve. My compound I will never take a shot over 40 yards under no circumstances and with my recurve I wouldnot shoot past 20 yards. The name of the game is to try to get as close as you can to the animal, if a person is trying to harvest an animal at 100 yards best to stick with a rifle or muzzleloader, you have a higher percentage of a clean harvest with those than a bow.

[russ]

Originally Posted by drenalinjunkie

My Matthews Drenalin is rated for 320fps, with my current setup (340 grain arrows, 29.25" arrow length, 29"draw, 65# pull, whisker bisquit rest, 100 grain field tip, 2" blazer vanes) I am shooting 304fps. If a guy can shoot out to 100 yards accurately and consistantly the arrow has more than enough energy to kill an animal. The arrow will hit the ground long before it loses the velocity it needs to kill.
junkie

Just curious, is that the paper calculated, chrono or sight marks calculated speed? 'Cause there's lots of factors in your set up description that point to about 300 fps being the best your set up will do.

[aulrich]

OK I have been out of archery too long, 40 yards use to be long.

What is the new long for hunting. I have heard of folks having 80 yard pins, which still seems crazy far.

Cool to see the effort in the though, I am all for pushing the limits through knowleage and practice.