Compound Bows VS Crossbows

[DJS]

I'm a little hesitant to even start this thread because this topic has been subject to some heated exchanges here on the board but after careful thought I'm going to go ahead and tell my story.
Last week I got home from work a little later and didn't have time head out to a stand because I knew it would be too late. The deer would already be in the field. Instead I grabbed my bow and my gear and headed out to check a new property I had got permission to hunt on. I knew there were deer in there but not sure what quality of bucks. I snuck in there and got to the field edge about 45 mins before dark. I noticed there were 4 deer in the field and after a good look through the binos noticed that all 4 were bucks. 3 of which were shooters. The deer were about 150 yards away, the wind was perfect so I snuck up to a willow bush on the field edge which brought me to about 125 yards away from the feeding deer.
The thought was that I'd wait there until dark and if the bucks came my way, great. If not I'd come back in a day or two and hang some stands. After watching the bucks for about 10 mins it became apparrent that the deer were in fact coming my way. To make a long story a little shorter, what ended up happening was when the bucks got to about 75 yards they did what big whitetails generally do. The sixth sense kicked in on one of the bigger bucks and he slowly came to investigate the willow bush area I was hid in. All the other bucks followed. As he approached my hiding place I was sure I was going to get a shot at this giant even though he was in detection mode. At 15 yards out he stopped and stared to my left. He could not see me or smell me but he knew something was up. For 2 minutes at least, I watched stare,desperatley waiting for him to turn his head away from me so I could draw. This never happened and he eventually turned quickly, took 2 bounds to catch up to his buddies and all 4 deer walked off the field.
After a sleepless night all I could think of is that is why crossbows should never be allowed in archery season. Yes, I would have loved to get a shot at that buck. Yes a crossbow would have enabled me to get that shot but this story and so many like it are what makes bowhunting so desirable. Anybody who hunts for all the right reasons knows that it isn't about the kill but about the adventure and the memories you take away from each outing and I won't soon forget that great expierience!!
Sorry to be long winded but I had to share my thoughts.

[archer king]

agreed couldnt put it any better myself

[bunnyhunter]

Ok I'll be the devils advocate here...I agree slow, careful hunting is an amazing wonderful experience.....I have had the joy of stalking my first whitetail after many attempts to get close to a particular buck...with a shotgun, I was only comfortable with a close shot. finally I managed to outsmart him, and I enjoyed the chase, the late evenings watching wildlife when I didnt get him. its NOT fair to insinuate archery hunters are the only ones who love this.

I have also loved the advantage of a rifle when it comes to filling the freezer with venison some years! AND Its not like I didnt appreciate the hunt EVERY TIME.

I have had deer hunting archery dreams for years....turns out shoulder and neck surgery for cancer had other ideas for that. AND being a woman, it would have been tough enough even without that.

I would LOVE a crossbow season. I cant say if it would be a big problem for archery season or not? I still think true archery should be a few weeks ahead of any crossbow season. Strathcona county has a shotgun season that opens Oct. 25 and ends Dec 7 for example.

But you have to understand its not about dedication and appreciation of the hunt. Some of us are not able bodied enough to go compound all the way.

I personally think it should be..archery first, then crossbow/muzzle/shotgun...then rifle.
nuff said
Jen

[DJS]

Originally Posted by bunnyhunter

Ok I'll be the devils advocate here...I agree slow, careful hunting is an amazing wonderful experience.....I have had the joy of stalking my first whitetail after many attempts to get close to a particular buck...with a shotgun, I was only comfortable with a close shot. finally I managed to outsmart him, and I enjoyed the chase, the late evenings watching wildlife when I didnt get him. its NOT fair to insinuate archery hunters are the only ones who love this.

I have also loved the advantage of a rifle when it comes to filling the freezer with venison some years! AND Its not like I didnt appreciate the hunt EVERY TIME.

I have had deer hunting archery dreams for years....turns out shoulder and neck surgery for cancer had other ideas for that. AND being a woman, it would have been tough enough even without that.

I would LOVE a crossbow season. I cant say if it would be a big problem for archery season or not? I still think true archery should be a few weeks ahead of any crossbow season. Strathcona county has a shotgun season that opens Oct. 25 and ends Dec 7 for example.

But you have to understand its not about dedication and appreciation of the hunt. Some of us are not able bodied enough to go compound all the way.

I personally think it should be..archery first, then crossbow/muzzle/shotgun...then rifle.
nuff said
Jen

I agree with you 100 percent. The point I was trying to make was that crossbows, in my opinion, do not belong in archery season. I'm not trying to anyway slam crossbow hunting, shotgun hunting or rifle hunting. Just saying that there is a huge difference between general archery and crossbow hunting! Thats all, lol.

[archer king]

archery season should be left right how it is! this is why you open up the archery season to crossbows the number will EASILY double in hunters then there goes our genral cow tags and mule deer and a 3 yr wait for archery antalope. a crossbow your can shoot further and way easyer. As of right now as far as i know if you have a doctors note stating you cant pull a compound bow you can hunt the archery season with crossbow witch is 100% fair. if any changes are made i would like it to be archery season, rifle season then late november into december a primative weapons season consiting of crossbows muzzle loaders and shotguns. thats the only way it should be ABA (alberta bowhunters assocation) has fought way to hard and way to long to loose it all to crossbows.

[sealevel]

so modern compounds stretch out shots to 50 -60 yards . That makes it way to easy compared to a re curve . so a compound shouldn`t be in the same season as recurve or stickbows.

[fishinmatt]

I don't get it. If you want to hunt in archery season learn to show a bow and hunt during archery season. It’s not that difficult but does take some dedicated time to learn the trade. That’s part of the point of an archery season. Why should the rules be changed to accommodate you because you don't want to learn to shoot a bow but still want to hunt during archery season? To me it’s pretty simple; hunting during archery season means shooting a bow, not changing the rules to hunt archery season with your preffered weapon.
As far as a disabled person wanting to hunt during archery season, you can apply for a permit and hunt during archery season with a crossbow so that is pretty much a moot point.

[ishootbambi]

so......you dont have to raise a crossbow to shoot a deer? how exactly do you figure a crossbow would have killed it when your bow didnt? unless you have super human strength to hold it in the shooting position for as you said....10 minutes to start coming your way, plus however long it took to get to shooting range....another 10 or so? sorry man, i cant hold just my arms up that long forget about holding an 8 or 10 pound weapon. now a gun is a different story, as a running shot at that range is not a big deal. remember, crossbows are allowed in a on of places already....some as long as 30 years....and success rates are shown to be pretty well identical. in all likelyhood, the outcome of that particular experience is quite likely the same. it always puzzles me how guys think a crossbow can be shot with no movement by the shooter.

Originally Posted by archer king

archery season should be left right how it is! this is why you open up the archery season to crossbows the number will EASILY double in hunters then there goes our genral cow tags and mule deer and a 3 yr wait for archery antalope. .

now that right there is the truth about why most archery guys really dont want them hightech newfangled killing contraptions allowed in "THEIR" private little early season. the admission of greed is nothing new there, we already cleared that up in several pages of discusion. as for the rest of that quote....you really should learn a little about what you are talking about.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

so......you dont have to raise a crossbow to shoot a deer? how exactly do you figure a crossbow would have killed it when your bow didnt? unless you have super human strength to hold it in the shooting position for as you said....10 minutes to start coming your way, plus however long it took to get to shooting range....another 10 or so? sorry man, i cant hold just my arms up that long forget about holding an 8 or 10 pound weapon. now a gun is a different story, as a running shot at that range is not a big deal. remember, crossbows are allowed in a on of places already....some as long as 30 years....and success rates are shown to be pretty well identical. in all likelyhood, the outcome of that particular experience is quite likely the same. it always puzzles me how guys think a crossbow can be shot with no movement by the shooter.
.

A Bi-pod, shooting sticks, a tree limb, any Rest, would allow you to hold it up longer than viagra !

[DJS]

[QUOTE=ishootbambi;688791]so......you dont have to raise a crossbow to shoot a deer? how exactly do you figure a crossbow would have killed it when your bow didnt? unless you have super human strength to hold it in the shooting position for as you said....10 minutes to start coming your way, plus however long it took to get to shooting range....another 10 or so? sorry man, i cant hold just my arms up that long forget about holding an 8 or 10 pound weapon. now a gun is a different story, as a running shot at that range is not a big deal. remember, crossbows are allowed in a on of places already....some as long as 30 years....and success rates are shown to be pretty well identical. in all likelyhood, the outcome of that particular experience is quite likely the same. it always puzzles me how guys think a crossbow can be shot with no movement by the shooter.


I was in a kneeling position the entire time and as he came closer I slowly lifted the bow to an almost shooting position. The only thing I could not do was draw because there is no way to do that without making a sudden movement. If I was hunting with a cross bow I could have easily got the crossbow up very slowly and squeezed the trigger. The outcome of this hunt would have been drastically different if I was hunting with a crossbow but in no way more memorable!
Again, I was very hesitant to even tell this story here for fear of a huge argument as we have seen in the past. But I felt it had to be told to show the huge differnence in hunting with the two weapons.

[archer king]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

now that right there is the truth about why most archery guys really dont want them hightech newfangled killing contraptions allowed in "THEIR" private little early season. the admission of greed is nothing new there, we already cleared that up in several pages of discusion. as for the rest of that quote....you really should learn a little about what you are talking about.

I do know what im talking about if the number of hunters double the succes rate will go witch means less tags given out use your head?

[AbAngler]

Sooo much fail in this thread.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by archer king

I do know what im talking about if the number of hunters double the succes rate will go witch means less tags given out use your head?

ummmmm yeah. the success rate is virtually identical. the harvest rate would indeed double by doubling hunters. so would you be crying the same tears if vertical archers doubled overnight?

use your head and see how selfish you look by saying that. YOU feel like YOUR advantage would be taken from YOU. of course that had already been determined long ago that vertical archers protests really come down to that sense of entitlement.

as for the op....i have hunted with both weapons. if you couldnt get it done with a vertical bow, i doubt you would have with a crossbow. from your story, i wonder how you planned to shoot him facing you?

the similarities in performance of the two weapons are almost mirrored. my crossbow hunting was in bc when i lived there, and to be honest, i prefer the vertical bow. i have no personal interest in the whole debate other than to say that having used both, a crossbow is a bow and likely should have been included long ago. there is more difference from a longbow or recurve to a compound than from a compound to a crossbow. the whole protest now is very similar to the protest of traditional archers complaining about compounds years ago. the facts are plain and simple from all over north america....success rates are almost identical. opinions are what they are, but the facts cannot be argued.

[packhuntr]

Keep talking Bambi. Its easy to say, "duhuh, hey guys, Im an archer too, and your all just jelous"....
You dont get it cause your not a bow hunter. Its just that simple. Folk can lay it down in the simplest forms imaginable, but with beurocratic minded people that nearly couldnt make it in the real world,,, the only way is to either walk away in disbelief, or attempt to beat them at thier own game,, which doesnt make any sence to the rest of society at the best of times. The cold hard facts of it are this Bambi,,, if you dont have a sniff, your arguments are exactly what you are playing. Doesnt seem to me that you have a stake in the matter, so why keep running off like you know some sh*t, anyone who is a bow hunter sees STRAIT THROUGH buddy

[Chevy 454]

As I read the last post,I can visualize the chest puffing out,nose in the air and a finger jabbing at the computer screen as packhuntr types and makes his point. Too funny.
Thanks for clearing this up, oh great bowhunter!

[archer king]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

ummmmm yeah. the success rate is virtually identical. the harvest rate would indeed double by doubling hunters. so would you be crying the same tears if vertical archers doubled overnight?

use your head and see how selfish you look by saying that. YOU feel like YOUR advantage would be taken from YOU. of course that had already been determined long ago that vertical archers protests really come down to that sense of entitlement.

as for the op....i have hunted with both weapons. if you couldnt get it done with a vertical bow, i doubt you would have with a crossbow. from your story, i wonder how you planned to shoot him facing you?

the similarities in performance of the two weapons are almost mirrored. my crossbow hunting was in bc when i lived there, and to be honest, i prefer the vertical bow. i have no personal interest in the whole debate other than to say that having used both, a crossbow is a bow and likely should have been included long ago. there is more difference from a longbow or recurve to a compound than from a compound to a crossbow. the whole protest now is very similar to the protest of traditional archers complaining about compounds years ago. the facts are plain and simple from all over north america....success rates are almost identical. opinions are what they are, but the facts cannot be argued.

What im saying is dont take away from the archery season put a primative weapons season in starting in late november.the biggest thing with crossbows vs compound is that it takes alot more skill to shoot. you could sight in your crossbow and i could pick it up and shoot it as good if not better so to say, but if i sight in my compound and you pick it up theres no way your gonna shoot it the same as me. Plus with the crossbows out there there KE is 110+ for the most part and most compounds are lucky to be 80 foot lbs of KE and faster so there for very easily pushing a shot out to 80 90 yards and i shoot competativly and won the indoor canadian nationals and there is no way i would shoot past 60 and most guys wont go past 50 so theres a huge advantage there thats why i think it should be put in with a "primative weapons" season

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by archer king

very easily pushing a shot out to 80 90 yards and i shoot competativly and won the indoor canadian nationals and there is no way i would shoot past 60 and most guys wont go past 50 so theres a huge advantage there thats why i think it should be put in with a "primative weapons" season

You are quit simply wrong. Ever seen what a crossbow bolt does past 40-50 yards? Drops like a lead brick.

There is already a LONG thread on this subject.

[DAVE]

Originally Posted by Chevy 454

As I read the last post,I can visualize the chest puffing out,nose in the air and a finger jabbing at the computer screen as packhuntr types and makes his point. Too funny.
Thanks for clearing this up, oh great bowhunter!

X2

[packhuntr]

No need to talk about chest puffing fellas. There is no data GUARANTEED derived from anything other than treestand hunts in the U.S. and those stats will be comparable to even rifle treestand stats in close range wooded territory. The bottom line is that in a tactical and experienced open country close range hunters hands,,, namely a big portion of Alberta,,,the xbow is so far superior to any bow in archery seasons today its not even a competition. You may as well add muzzle loaders and shotguns in with xbows. IT WONT EVEN BE A CHALLENGE to kill game with the xbow if you know how to do it as an archer.

edit. There are people that want to challenge themselves. Join in or tip your hat to those that do it, which ever. I wasnt trying to be a d*ck, merely looking at and skulking around the idea that experience is a must have prerequisite to understanding these differences. The manner in which Bambi addressed the original poster and threw mud in his face isnt tactful.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Chevy 454

As I read the last post,I can visualize the chest puffing out,nose in the air and a finger jabbing at the computer screen as packhuntr types and makes his point. Too funny.
Thanks for clearing this up, oh great bowhunter!

X lots and lots

ahhh fudge....you are a funny dude. you got yourself so worked up that the spelling and grammar made it a little tough to figure out what you were trying to say. im still not sure i got your point, but it did make me giggle.

Originally Posted by packhuntr

No need to talk about chest puffing fellas. There is no data GUARANTEED derived from anything other than treestand hunts in the U.S. and those stats will be comparable to even rifle treestand stats in close range wooded territory. The bottom line is that in a tactical and experienced open country close range hunters hands,,, namely a big portion of Alberta,,,the xbow is so far superior to any bow in archery seasons today its not even a competition. You may as well add muzzle loaders and shotguns in with xbows. IT WONT EVEN BE A CHALLENGE to kill game with the xbow if you know how to do it as an archer.

edit. There are people that want to challenge themselves. Join in or tip your hat to those that do it, which ever. I wasnt trying to be a d*ck, merely looking at and skulking around the idea that experience is a must have prerequisite to understanding these differences. The manner in which Bambi addressed the original poster and threw mud in his face isnt tactful.

im not sure why you have such a hard time understanding printed fact, crossbow and vertical bow success rates are nearly identical everywhere they are allowed. to think it will be different here is a little odd. do you really think there is no prairie anywhere but in alberta? the spot and stalk nature of prairie hunting exists in many places around north america. you will see soon enough.....sounds like srd will be making the change.
as for the red highlighted portion, i dont think i believe you. if you are sincere however....you failed. im not sure how i threw mud in the op's face. i asked some questions surrounding circumstances and pointed out some facts.
continuing with the op......i do wish you good luck and hope to see pics of that buck on the ground soon.

oh, and one more thing fudge......how is your antelope hunting coming along? we are all pulling for you to get a good one down. you havent been here much lately so im guessing you are out there trying.
a couple guys i have given tips to have scored....congrats to all. i told a couple guys where those 3 80 inchers were and one guy was fortunate enough to get one. he has sent me pics and put a tape to it himself. he is coming up with 82 7/8 gross 81 6/8 net. he has asked me not to post the pics, but he is here watching. i really hope you change your mind about posting....i know everyone would like to see.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by archer king

What im saying is dont take away from the archery season put a primative weapons season in starting in late november.the biggest thing with crossbows vs compound is that it takes alot more skill to shoot. you could sight in your crossbow and i could pick it up and shoot it as good if not better so to say, but if i sight in my compound and you pick it up theres no way your gonna shoot it the same as me. Plus with the crossbows out there there KE is 110+ for the most part and most compounds are lucky to be 80 foot lbs of KE and faster so there for very easily pushing a shot out to 80 90 yards and i shoot competativly and won the indoor canadian nationals and there is no way i would shoot past 60 and most guys wont go past 50 so theres a huge advantage there thats why i think it should be put in with a "primative weapons" season

you are quite correct in saying that it is an easier weapon to become proficient with. the time commitment to become accurate with a crossbow is much less, but thats where the truth in your post ends. you clearly have no experience with a crossbow and do not have the facts. as said, 40-50 yards is the practical range of the thing....just like a bow. there are extremes in everything.....rifle guys who make shots at 1000 yards, archers who make shots at 100 yards, and crossbow fanatics who can make 100 yard shots. those are the exceptions, but yes they do exist. as for KE.....the point is moot. KE does not kill.....just like guns, its the hole that does it. energy is simoply the force that allows it to happen and most modern compounds have more than enough energy to drive an arrow clean through an animal even out at 100 yards where the vast majority of archers of any sort have no business shooting at an animal. again....there is a couple of extensive threads on the subject. the fact is that hunter skill is going to be the limiting factor in success....just like a vertical bow. you still need to get close and raise the weapon undetected and then make a clean killing shot.

[archer king]

i agree with what you just said bambi and i mean lots of guys that ive talked to said they could shoot out that far without a problem but thats for a diffrent day lol, and im not opposed to having a season for them i just think a primative weapon season would be more appropreate

[Heckler]

DJS, well said, and I couldn't agree with you more.

I have had the opportunity to talk to many bow hunters in regards to this topic. Not one single bow hunter I have spoke with agrees with the allowance of crossbows during the archery season. Not a single one of them. Yet it is being forced on us whether or not we agree with it, and for standing up and taking a stance against this proposal we are being singled out, and being labelled as selfish and elitist. What utter foolishness! In what possible way is this helping the hunting community as a whole?

All of us who are hunters and enjoy this lifestyle - whether you hunt with a bow, rifle, shotgun, or crossbow - we all share a common bond in our love for hunting and the hunting lifestyle, and we should be standing together on that common ground. We need to respect one another and the different ways in which we all enjoy our hunting pursuits.

What I see happening is lines being drawn, and sides being taken - meanwhile the enemy we should be focusing in is gaining ground daily. With all this in-fighting and division within our own ranks, I will be amazed if in 10 or 20 years if there are any hunting opportunities left for any of us. This saddens me.

I am a bow hunter, and I am passionate about it - but I am not only deeply concerned for the future of bow hunting, but for the future of all hunters. I hope that we can all realize that we are ALL going to lose out before its too late.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by archer king

i agree with what you just said bambi and i mean lots of guys that ive talked to said they could shoot out that far without a problem but thats for a diffrent day lol, and im not opposed to having a season for them i just think a primative weapon season would be more appropreate

yup, ive talked to lots of archers who think the same exact thing. there are a ton of crossbow experts out there who have never touched one. thing is, if those same guys were to actually gain some real experience with one, they would soon learn the truth....the effective range is pretty well identical to a vertical bow. yuo should see what a bolt does in the air. ABangler is correct.....an absolute nosedive around 40-50 yards. with enough pins you can hit stuff farther, but not without a rangefinder and a lot of practice. they come available with scopes as well. sight it in for 80 if you like....but then you are guessing on close shots. i have a 70 yard pin on my bow. id never shoot an animal that far, just targets....but if you have one, think how far that 70 pin is from the 20. on a crossbow its about half again as far yet.

Originally Posted by Heckler

DJS, well said, and I couldn't agree with you more.

I have had the opportunity to talk to many bow hunters in regards to this topic. Not one single bow hunter I have spoke with agrees with the allowance of crossbows during the archery season. Not a single one of them. Yet it is being forced on us whether or not we agree with it, and for standing up and taking a stance against this proposal we are being singled out, and being labelled as selfish and elitist. What utter foolishness! In what possible way is this helping the hunting community as a whole?



.

yep, most of the archers i know feel the same. there is a lot of fear out there. a lot of guys are believing a lot of myths about how efficient of a killer a crossbow is. the truth will be widely known soon....they are nothing to fear. the only real change is that archer numbers will rise and likely some species in some areas will be on a draw rather than over the counter tags. thats what a lot of guys truly fear most. you want to know how that helps other hunters? how about the fact that there will be more guys hunting more often.....most of them will be current gun hunters, but maybe some of them will have not hunted before at all. dont sweat it too much though. as soon as the guys who think its too easy learn that its no different than any other bow they will give it up.

[pottymouth]

To crossbow proponents, this out-of-the-box accuracy is an asset.


“Most bowhunters start dropping out of the sport when they reach their 40s,” says TenPoint’s Robb. “Partly it’s physical, but partly it’s because their complex lifestyles don’t leave them the time they had as a younger person to hone their archery skills. Rather than going out there and being irresponsible, trying to kill a deer with a compound bow, they opt out. We give them a tool that, with a minimal amount of practice, allows them to participate and be successful. They still have to locate game and stalk within range, but the main advantage of a crossbow is that it doesn’t require the same amount of time and skill to get and maintain proficiency.”

[Heckler]

Honestly, I will be the first to admit that I have never picked up a crossbow in my life. From the research that I have done on my own, I agree with you that the effective killing range of a crossbow is 40 to 50 yards in the hands of an experienced hunter. Looking at that data, its effective range is basically the same as a modern compound bow.

The problem that I have with them being allowed alongside traditional and compound bows during the archery season is the manner in which they are wielded. A crossbow is a shoulder fired weapon that can have a scope affixed to it. A hunter can be in position and have the crossbow cocked, shouldered, and ready to fire ahead of time. A hunter shooting with traditional or modern archery tackle needs to draw the bow with his own muscle power and release that arrow with precision, and do this without spooking the animal. In many cases, as has been my own experience so many times, it is not possible to draw the bow without botching the opportunity altogether, whereas with a crossbow in the ready position the hunt would be over. This is the critical difference.

I am certainly not opposed to crossbows being utilized for hunting during general season, nor am I opposed to individuals who have disabilities to use them during the archery season. I am just not for them being allowed during the archery only season. My feeling is that the provision for crossbows in the current regulations is sufficient, and things should be left as is.

As far as what you mentioned about the concerns for bow hunters being on draw the same as rifle hunters, yes I am concerned about this. I put a ton of time and energy into my bow hunting pursuits, and many seasons have nothing to show for it but tag soup. This isn't to say that I have not had opportunities to take a mule buck, for example, but I have held out waiting for that bigger buck that never presents itself for a shot opportunity. This is part of the allure of bow hunting for me. I have been doing my best to arrow a big mule buck for several seasons now, but have not been successful in doing so. I enjoy the fact that the next season, I can buy another mule deer tag, and hunt to my hearts content all archery season and maybe I'll get that big buck. And maybe I won't. Being on draw will change things dramatically, and if I am going to be on draw anyway and during archery season chances are I won't get a shot at that big buck then whats the point? I might as well just put the archery tackle away and stick to rifle hunting. And I do also rifle hunt by the way, and I enjoy it but my passion is for the bow and arrow. Its all about the hunt, and thats what I love most about it. I know that if I get drawn for mule deer and go out with my rifle, I am most likely going to come home with a nice buck and can do so while spending considerably less time and effort. And there isn't anything wrong with that - its just that I prefer to bow hunt, and I get so much more enjoyment and fulfillment from bow hunting than I do from hunting with my rifle. Thats just who I am.

With regards to how this helps the hunting community, I was referring to how this has become a divisive issue among hunters as a whole, and I feel that this divisiveness and in-fighting are doing nothing to promote the hunting lifestyle. With what you said about this resulting in more people hunting more of the time and this being a good thing for hunting, I acknowledge your position. My position is there are better means than this to promote hunting to new comers and to ensure the future of hunting for all of us who enjoy it and want to see it thrive. All hunters have a stake in this, we all need to do our part to teach new comers respect and honor for the land and our wildlife, as well as proper hunting ethics.

In my heart though, I do hope that you are right and that all this hype is going to die out and things will stay relatively the same. I really do hope this is what happens. In the meantime, I am going to do my absolute best to enjoy the remainder of this archery season and maybe with a little luck I will finally get to bag that mule buck of my dreams.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

yup, ive talked to lots of archers who think the same exact thing. there are a ton of crossbow experts out there who have never touched one. thing is, if those same guys were to actually gain some real experience with one, they would soon learn the truth....the effective range is pretty well identical to a vertical bow. yuo should see what a bolt does in the air. ABangler is correct.....an absolute nosedive around 40-50 yards. with enough pins you can hit stuff farther, but not without a rangefinder and a lot of practice. they come available with scopes as well. sight it in for 80 if you like....but then you are guessing on close shots. i have a 70 yard pin on my bow. id never shoot an animal that far, just targets....but if you have one, think how far that 70 pin is from the 20. on a crossbow its about half again as far yet.



yep, most of the archers i know feel the same. there is a lot of fear out there. a lot of guys are believing a lot of myths about how efficient of a killer a crossbow is. the truth will be widely known soon....they are nothing to fear. the only real change is that archer numbers will rise and likely some species in some areas will be on a draw rather than over the counter tags. thats what a lot of guys truly fear most. you want to know how that helps other hunters? how about the fact that there will be more guys hunting more often.....most of them will be current gun hunters, but maybe some of them will have not hunted before at all. dont sweat it too much though. as soon as the guys who think its too easy learn that its no different than any other bow they will give it up.

The truth is................I can kill pretty much 100% of the animals that come into view when I'm in my stand (point blank to 70 yards). Can't do that with a recurve, longbow or a compound.................especially the closer shots where you get busted all the time drawing your bow. Yes, I own a very good crossbow and recurves and longbows and compounds..........I know the truth.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

you are quite correct in saying that it is an easier weapon to become proficient with. the time commitment to become accurate with a crossbow is much less, but thats where the truth in your post ends. you clearly have no experience with a crossbow and do not have the facts. as said, 40-50 yards is the practical range of the thing....just like a bow. there are extremes in everything.....rifle guys who make shots at 1000 yards, archers who make shots at 100 yards, and crossbow fanatics who can make 100 yard shots. those are the exceptions, but yes they do exist. as for KE.....the point is moot. KE does not kill.....just like guns, its the hole that does it. energy is simoply the force that allows it to happen and most modern compounds have more than enough energy to drive an arrow clean through an animal even out at 100 yards where the vast majority of archers of any sort have no business shooting at an animal. again....there is a couple of extensive threads on the subject. the fact is that hunter skill is going to be the limiting factor in success....just like a vertical bow. you still need to get close and raise the weapon undetected and then make a clean killing shot.

That's wierd, I assumed that Kinetic Energy , was important ! According ISB, i guess it's not .

My buddy who shoots a 92 lbs bow with a 32 inch draw length, that can bust through shoulders of big game , can do it because????..............of his KE!!! I guess everyone can do the same with 60 lbs bow and an average DL like 28 ?????

I guess rifle guys shooting out at 500 + don't care about there KE either

[pottymouth]

For all you guys out chasing antelope with a bow, how much easier would it be if you could hunt with a Xbow???

Imagine propping up the decoy and having the Xbow loaded and ready, while you could lie flat on your belly and actually shot in the same position your lieing in, Actually you could shoot from underneath the decoy, opposed to the side or over top!!! With the only movement being your trigger finger !!!

How easy would it be to belly crawl, with a loaded xbow toward a muledeer or antelope, knowing once in range, all you would have to do is move your finger again.

I have yet to meet an archer who can draw, aim and shoot while laying on his belly!!! But I'm sure someone on here will tell us he has

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

yup, ive talked to lots of archers who think the same exact thing. there are a ton of crossbow experts out there who have never touched one. thing is, if those same guys were to actually gain some real experience with one, they would soon learn the truth....the effective range is pretty well identical to a vertical bow. yuo should see what a bolt does in the air. ABangler is correct.....an absolute nosedive around 40-50 yards. with enough pins you can hit stuff farther, but not without a rangefinder and a lot of practice. they come available with scopes as well. sight it in for 80 if you like....but then you are guessing on close shots. i have a 70 yard pin on my bow. id never shoot an animal that far, just targets....but if you have one, think how far that 70 pin is from the 20. on a crossbow its about half again as far yet.



yep, most of the archers i know feel the same. there is a lot of fear out there. a lot of guys are believing a lot of myths about how efficient of a killer a crossbow is. the truth will be widely known soon....they are nothing to fear. the only real change is that archer numbers will rise and likely some species in some areas will be on a draw rather than over the counter tags. thats what a lot of guys truly fear most. you want to know how that helps other hunters? how about the fact that there will be more guys hunting more often.....most of them will be current gun hunters, but maybe some of them will have not hunted before at all. dont sweat it too much though. as soon as the guys who think its too easy learn that its no different than any other bow they will give it up.

Problem solved with reticle scopes !!!

One of my biggest concerns is, how many people don't anything about Xbows, and believe that they can kill out to 100 yards effortlessly, the truth will be known when the wounding rate increases expodentially( unfortunatly I can accurately assume the majority of those doing this will be rifle hunters believing the myths) !!! But I guess it's better to have the game suffer than the hunters that refuse to use archery tackle , until the generall populas is educated !