question for big number coyote trappers.

[goosejerky]

Hi there!
I'm just curious if anyone could share their personal experiences with trapping g large numbers of coyotes in a given area and then coming back to the same area the next year to trap the yotes again. Are the numbers of coyotes caught the second year up/down as compared to the previous year? Is the population of coyotes healthier as a whole? Do you notice greater numbers of rabbits, pheasants? etc. Etc.
This is my first year trapping yotes and have taken a total of right around 120 thus far and I'm very curious to see what next year has in store. I have yet to see any yotes in the fields of the area I've been trapping which is kinda out of the norm so I'm guessing that the overall population has taken quite a hit by yours truly.

Also, I'm addicted to trapping.

[bill9044]

That's a great first season. The couple baits I baited last year have produced the same numbers this year. Only real way to find out in your area is try it again next year. More yotes will filter in from other areas this summer. Hit me hard this fall then you have data.

[tikka250]

i know its not trapping but i will add my 2cents. i have one feedlot where i shoot a large number of coyotes both calling and off of the deadpile in the winter i have shot in and around 20 each year from that area for the past 2 years and so far have yet to notice a decline in coyote numbers.it seems where there is good area to hold coyotes new ones will move in not long after you remove some.

[HunterDave]

Nice haul of coyotes, Congrats!

I don't consider the total number of coyotes that I catch as big numbers (between 80 and 100) but I do take out a significant number from the relatively small area that I trap. Last year I took out all of the local dogs and this year there were just as many. What I did find different this year was I was catching better quality coyotes with a lot fewer mange and shoulder mites. One season doesn't determine much but it would appear to me that catching all of those bad dogs last year improved the quality of the coyotes that I caught this year.

[PCP_ECOM]

Correct me anyone if i'm wrong but I believe local resident coyote's have approximately a 10 square mile home area,where transient coyote's could be up 100 square miles,so they sure can replenish an area pretty fast,along with new pups being born,cheers Peter

[H380]

88 for me and 90 for a local bunch of colony kids in about a 6 mile radius this year . I will know better next winter but I think it will rebound nicely ..

[rcmc]

In my area over harvesting of fur can decline the numbers for next year, were I snare its very open, with limited recruitment of coyotes moving in to replace the caught ones. I have to manage my harvest to maintain my numbers.

[Clarksen]

Originally Posted by rcmc

In my area over harvesting of fur can decline the numbers for next year, were I snare its very open, with limited recruitment of coyotes moving in to replace the caught ones. I have to manage my harvest to maintain my numbers.

Would you mind indicating approximately where you are located. I have never heard of trapping and hunting decreasing coyote numbers anywhere.

[rcmc]

Originally Posted by Clarksen

Would you mind indicating approximately where you are located. I have never heard of trapping and hunting decreasing coyote numbers anywhere.

Southeastern Alberta, open grain fields with little to no cover other than the South Sask River.

[Thunder Elk Hunter]

We have one bait site that we have been snaring for over 10 years. It produces 20 - 30 good coyotes every year. So unless someone moves right next door to you, you should get around the same number as the year before. Our big differences are when we get a early deep snow fall.

TEH

[Clarksen]

Originally Posted by rcmc

Southeastern Alberta, open grain fields with little to no cover other than the South Sask River.

Are you talking about a small area? SE Alberta was extensively poisoned with 1080 treated horse baits for years and there was no reduction in coyote numbers. Nor was there a reduction during the high price years. Litter size went from about 5 to 9 during these years so there may have been somewhat limited ingression. Very puzzling.

[trigger7mm]

I have been using the same bait sites for years, and usually get about the same amount of coyotes each year. Usually around 100-125. Seems like a good area will always have coyotes in it.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Clarksen

Are you talking about a small area? SE Alberta was extensively poisoned with 1080 treated horse baits for years and there was no reduction in coyote numbers. Nor was there a reduction during the high price years. Litter size went from about 5 to 9 during these years so there may have been somewhat limited ingression. Very puzzling.

I find the increased litter size interesting as hell. I've read that coyotes can increase litter sizes to meet conditions but I have never heard real life experience of this happening. This year there were noticeably fewer pups in this area and based on that science, I anticipate a substantial increase of pups next season.

I have also read that once coyotes are established in a given area you can never eradicate them, only manage their numbers. Biologists claim that trapping them out of a certain area can actually lead to an increase in the number of them in that area the following year. Regardless, there will be plenty of coyotes to trap in that area next year.

[Clarksen]

Increased litter size is thought to be a reaction to stress on the overall population which is sufficient to reduce it in the long term. In this case the period was about 8 or 9 years before it was noticeable, and then only in south and eastern areas. This may have been because den sites are easily found by plane there and very difficult in other areas with more cover so it's not known if there was an increase in the rest of the province. It seems reasonable to me stress would be highest in the open country with little cover. The other thing that is fairly certain is that it takes several years of extreme pressure for this mechanism to kick in. The 1080 program operated for years with no noticeable impact on coyote numbers including litter size. There was no quantifiable difference in numbers during the high fur harvest years either.

In the northern part of the province it was found that coyote numbers are impacted by available food sources in the winter. In the study I am familiar with carrion was removed from a township all winter and by spring coyote numbers had declined dramatically. I suspect most moved but it was interesting that it had such an effect on them.

[HunterDave]

Interesting stuff.....thanks! Your name is Dwight, right?

[rcmc]

This is a restively small area I'am talking about, but when fur prices goes up so does the hunting and trapping pressure and it becomes intense here, and there is few places for them to find refuge, but this area is unique compared to the rest of Alberta. With over 40 years hunting coyotes in same area its fairly easy keep a pulse of the local population of coyotes. And when it comes to 1080 are you basing your 1080 experience here in this open country from what you have read or field experience, because it certainly isn't what we witnessed in the field. According to my father who began hunting coyotes in 40's and hunted them for nearly 60 years, he said the 1080 program in 60's was the extremely effective in managing coyote numbers because it controlled such huge area that there was not enough coyotes around to fill the void.

[Marty S]

Originally Posted by Clarksen

Increased litter size is thought to be a reaction to stress on the overall population which is sufficient to reduce it in the long term. In this case the period was about 8 or 9 years before it was noticeable, and then only in south and eastern areas. This may have been because den sites are easily found by plane there and very difficult in other areas with more cover so it's not known if there was an increase in the rest of the province. It seems reasonable to me stress would be highest in the open country with little cover. The other thing that is fairly certain is that it takes several years of extreme pressure for this mechanism to kick in. The 1080 program operated for years with no noticeable impact on coyote numbers including litter size. There was no quantifiable difference in numbers during the high fur harvest years either.

In the northern part of the province it was found that coyote numbers are impacted by available food sources in the winter. In the study I am familiar with carrion was removed from a township all winter and by spring coyote numbers had declined dramatically. I suspect most moved but it was interesting that it had such an effect on them.

I'll bite on your troll. Not enough facts to quantify a conclusion. (And oh so many believe their conclusions... GOOFY) (but meanwhile I'm glad)

Not enough facts to really dignify acknowledgement either.

[jim summit]

Northern part of alberta coyote population is hugely affectted by hunting and trapping. Last 5 years has really slowed down with high fur prices. Rarely see a yote now, only a track here or there. Any saying trapping and hunting has no effect is way out to lunch.
The local trappers would gladly see more yotes, but they just are not out there any more. Any time i travel down south to edmonton i'm amazed at the number of yotes out trotting the fields.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Clarksen

Increased litter size is thought to be a reaction to stress on the overall population which is sufficient to reduce it in the long term.

Sooooo, you're saying that an increase in litter sizes will reduce the population?

[braggadoe]

Originally Posted by goosejerky

Hi there!
I'm just curious if anyone could share their personal experiences with trapping g large numbers of coyotes in a given area and then coming back to the same area the next year to trap the yotes again. Are the numbers of coyotes caught the second year up/down as compared to the previous year? Is the population of coyotes healthier as a whole? Do you notice greater numbers of rabbits, pheasants? etc. Etc.
This is my first year trapping yotes and have taken a total of right around 120 thus far and I'm very curious to see what next year has in store. I have yet to see any yotes in the fields of the area I've been trapping which is kinda out of the norm so I'm guessing that the overall population has taken quite a hit by yours truly.

Also, I'm addicted to trapping.

couple things for certain. coyotes are difficult to kill twice. dead coyotes don't reproduce.

after that, its all speculation.

[MugEye]

Originally Posted by jim summit

Northern part of alberta coyote population is hugely affectted by hunting and trapping. Last 5 years has really slowed down with high fur prices. Rarely see a yote now, only a track here or there. Any saying trapping and hunting has no effect is way out to lunch.

The local trappers would gladly see more yotes, but they just are not out there any more. Any time i travel down south to edmonton i'm amazed at the number of yotes out trotting the fields.

I'm from northern alberta and I agree with this . Numbers seem to be way down . I'm seeing more deer fawns and grouse the last two years . Might be just a faze with warm winters tho

[hwkirby]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Nice haul of coyotes, Congrats!

I don't consider the total number of coyotes that I catch as big numbers (between 80 and 100) but I do take out a significant number from the relatively small area that I trap. Last year I took out all of the local dogs and this year there were just as many. What I did find different this year was I was catching better quality coyotes with a lot fewer mange and shoulder mites. One season doesn't determine much but it would appear to me that catching all of those bad dogs last year improved the quality of the coyotes that I caught this year.

X2....except that I only snare about 25% of what your doing Dave! On that note caught one yesterday and it is in prime condition still!

[Clarksen]

Where to start? rcmc - if it's a relatively small scale coyotes will gravitate to another area if subjected to stress e.g. from open farm country to creek bottoms or coulees where there is more cover. This may explain what you are seeing, I have no other explanation. My 1080 comments are based on direct experience which compared bait uptake throughout the winter. If the baits were reducing coyote numbers then bait uptake would decline as winter progressed and from year to year. This proved to not be apparent over a three year period where uptake was the same from year to year and from start to end of winter. In conjunction relative population comparisons were done. These do not give numbers of coyotes but do give a comparison to previous years. This is known as scent post transects and has proven to be effective in indicating rising, falling, or stable populations. This showed no change. This was done in order to test wheather 1080 was effective in reducing coyote numbers and ultimately livestock predation. The 1080 program was stopped and livestock predation did not increase.

Marty S - it's immaterial to me if you believe anything I've commented on or not.

Jim Summit - for some reason coyote numbers have fluctuated through out the province the last several years. Numbers have declined where I live to the point there are now fox everywhere. In real numbers this means from a high of 67 coyotes from a quarter section years ago to 2 this winter. I am told numbers in eastern Alberta are good. If anything trapping pressure is much less today than years ago. The best estimates available indicate that hunters and trappers combined can take a maximum of 10-15% of a wolf population yearly and I suspect this number would be lower for coyotes. In any event it would be well below their compensatory abilities.

Hunter Dave - I'm saying that for the mechanism which increases litter size to kick in a coyote population has to be subjected to some kind of stress [unknown] to a degree that would over time [unknown] cause their numbers to decline. There is no doubt that this occurs but the science behind it is not clear.

Braggado - not sure what you are saying but maybe think about this. If all coyotes trapped or shot were additive to natural mortality over very few years they would be gone. This is why hunting and trapping have no impact on coyote numbers. I would quantify the statement by saying there may be isolated situations as some have suggested where there can be a short time impact. I haven't seen it but strange things happen with animal populations that we do not understand.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Jim Summit, I suspect your low coyote numbers in the north is because the very high wolf population. Wolves like to eat them for lunch and do not like competition.

[rcmc]

Just to be clear, do you agree with hunting and trapping of coyotes and if so do you trap or hunt coyotes?

[jim summit]

The wolves do keep the coyotes down in the forested area as i have only taken a couple yotes off the trapline but even in farmland the population is down. This area has seen alot more hunting and trapping then in the last 10 years. If you take a couple hundred yotes out of a small area, that will have an effect no doubt.

Clarksen, i do not understand how you think that this does not affect the population. These local guys take out enough yotes to seriously knock down the breeding populations, there is no way yotes can reproduce faster.
I think you don't relize how many trappers/hunters are out there, in this area any way. If there is a $100 pelt trotting across a field, it's not to long for a strecher is in use with said pelt on it....

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by jim summit

Clarksen, i do not understand how you think that this does not affect the population. These local guys take out enough yotes to seriously knock down the breeding populations, there is no way yotes can reproduce faster.
I think you don't relize how many trappers/hunters are out there, in this area any way. If there is a $100 pelt trotting across a field, it's not to long for a strecher is in use with said pelt on it....

I have to wholeheartedly agree with this. Just look at what the original post was about and some of the comments that followed. You can't find a single coyote track where I have been trapping this year and I had to move to a completely new area that I can trap in 70 kms away, instead of 10 kms. With enough hunters and trappers we could most certainly reduce the coyote population significantly. The same applies to wolves IMO. There's no way that anything could pump out enough pups if the pressure was that heavy and aggressive. How can anyone think otherwise?

[moose maniac]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Interesting stuff.....thanks! Your name is Dwight, right?

Dwight, ravenlunatic and a few others

[Clarksen]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I have to wholeheartedly agree with this. Just look at what the original post was about and some of the comments that followed. You can't find a single coyote track where I have been trapping this year and I had to move to a completely new area that I can trap in 70 kms away, instead of 10 kms. With enough hunters and trappers we could most certainly reduce the coyote population significantly. The same applies to wolves IMO. There's no way that anything could pump out enough pups if the pressure was that heavy and aggressive. How can anyone think otherwise?

It's very simple. Coyotes and wolves maintain their numbers through immigration from surrounding areas and good pup survival. As I suggested earlier that if every animal you take was additive to the natural mortality then in a short time the animal would be extinct! It's really that simple. In order to reduce coyote numbers models suggest you would need to kill at least 45-50% of the TOTAL population EVERY year. Hunters and trappers cannot begin to approach this number.

I don't believe there is any publicly acceptable way to reduce or "manage" coyote or wolf numbers in the province. Helicopter gunning and strychnine poisoning can't do it for one very small area. One other thing to consider is that there are always reservoirs where coyotes are safe from us from private land to protected areas.

[Clarksen]

Originally Posted by rcmc

Just to be clear, do you agree with hunting and trapping of coyotes and if so do you trap or hunt coyotes?

Yes I fully agree with hunting and trapping coyotes and wolves and have done so my entire life excepting recently, now I only shoot them. I started calling when I was about 10 years old with a Pied Piper call from the US which cost about a dollar. They are a challenging animal we can hunt with no fear of reducing numbers and with coyotes today even make a dollar.