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  #31  
Old 02-09-2016, 01:47 PM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Dwight, aren't you permanently banned from this forum?

So many of today's "facts" are fallacies proclaimed as fact through incomplete pseudo science and often promoted by pseudo experts, often self proclaimed.
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  #32  
Old 02-09-2016, 11:13 PM
bill9044 bill9044 is offline
 
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All I can say is I'm weary as coyote to all these posts. Has it been 3 months already? Hmm I guess so.
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  #33  
Old 02-10-2016, 06:34 AM
braggadoe braggadoe is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Clarksen View Post
Where to start? rcmc - if it's a relatively small scale coyotes will gravitate to another area if subjected to stress e.g. from open farm country to creek bottoms or coulees where there is more cover. This may explain what you are seeing, I have no other explanation. My 1080 comments are based on direct experience which compared bait uptake throughout the winter. If the baits were reducing coyote numbers then bait uptake would decline as winter progressed and from year to year. This proved to not be apparent over a three year period where uptake was the same from year to year and from start to end of winter. In conjunction relative population comparisons were done. These do not give numbers of coyotes but do give a comparison to previous years. This is known as scent post transects and has proven to be effective in indicating rising, falling, or stable populations. This showed no change. This was done in order to test wheather 1080 was effective in reducing coyote numbers and ultimately livestock predation. The 1080 program was stopped and livestock predation did not increase.

Marty S - it's immaterial to me if you believe anything I've commented on or not.

Jim Summit - for some reason coyote numbers have fluctuated through out the province the last several years. Numbers have declined where I live to the point there are now fox everywhere. In real numbers this means from a high of 67 coyotes from a quarter section years ago to 2 this winter. I am told numbers in eastern Alberta are good. If anything trapping pressure is much less today than years ago. The best estimates available indicate that hunters and trappers combined can take a maximum of 10-15% of a wolf population yearly and I suspect this number would be lower for coyotes. In any event it would be well below their compensatory abilities.

Hunter Dave - I'm saying that for the mechanism which increases litter size to kick in a coyote population has to be subjected to some kind of stress [unknown] to a degree that would over time [unknown] cause their numbers to decline. There is no doubt that this occurs but the science behind it is not clear.

Braggado - not sure what you are saying but maybe think about this. If all coyotes trapped or shot were additive to natural mortality over very few years they would be gone. This is why hunting and trapping have no impact on coyote numbers. I would quantify the statement by saying there may be isolated situations as some have suggested where there can be a short time impact. I haven't seen it but strange things happen with animal populations that we do not understand.

alot of (unknown),(unknown),(unknown),(we don't understand) you have going on in your statements.

sadly, some people believe this to be science. and you probably got paid a bunch of tax payer money for these ground braking revelations.
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  #34  
Old 02-10-2016, 07:56 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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I haven't seen it but strange things happen with animal populations that we do not understand.
Congrats, on having one very intelligent thing to say! My theory is that there are many, many things that "we" don't understand. (Do try not to elevate yourself too high here!)

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Originally Posted by Clarksen View Post
I don't believe there is any publicly acceptable way to reduce or "manage" coyote or wolf numbers in the province.
Yes, we understand that you think that too.

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Originally Posted by Clarksen View Post
IIn order to reduce coyote numbers models suggest you would need to kill at least 45-50% of the TOTAL population EVERY year.
"Models"... (Interpretation...) Persons sitting in front of a computer with proven scientific data, or lack thereof, attempting to demonstrate/guess the dynamics of an animal population.

Last edited by Marty S; 02-10-2016 at 08:21 AM.
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  #35  
Old 02-10-2016, 05:54 PM
Clarksen Clarksen is offline
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Braggado and Marty

There are many things we don't understand about coyote populations and yes it does cost money to do the work. I don't understand what your issue is? Are you suggesting the work is not worth doing or that you already know the answers? If this is so please enlighten us all.
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  #36  
Old 02-10-2016, 06:26 PM
braggadoe braggadoe is offline
 
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the work has already been done. the POLITICS of "predators" rages on.
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  #37  
Old 02-10-2016, 06:58 PM
Clarksen Clarksen is offline
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Originally Posted by braggadoe View Post
the work has already been done. the POLITICS of "predators" rages on.
I agree. The work which we need to know in order to co exist with predators has largely been done but as usual with science it has not been presented to the public very well. The "politics of predators" is undoubtedly a worse problem than the predators.
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  #38  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:15 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Dwight, as an animal rights activist, and anti trapper, why would I share anything with you on a public trapper forum for your benefit? Can't you just stay with your anti trapper buddies on some anti trapper forum and continue to plan our demise? Anything I say to you will be used against me if at all possible, I am sure, against me and every person who loves to snare coyotes and wolves.

Perhaps if we had a chat someday, you might actually have an eye opening experience! However, before that would happen, I would need to know that you had completely repented of your ways.

Definitely interesting stuff, your loss.
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  #39  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:47 AM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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The funny thing is about this fella is that he claimed to seek the input from trappers yet when trappers provide him with the input that he asked for, he dismissed it because the truth goes against his personal agenda and what he wants to believe and preaches. The thought that what he thinks to be true is incorrect must be a bitter pill to swallow. He's not looking to gain insight and knowledge, he's looking for things to reinforce his way of thinking. Too bad that input from trappers is useless to this him or he might be able to learn something more than just what he reads in a book. I think that my sig line applies......

Dwight, I visited your wolf matters website and I have to say that there's more propaganda and BS on there than Carter's got little liver pills. What do you do, live off of donations from suckers?
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  #40  
Old 02-11-2016, 08:07 AM
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jim summit jim summit is offline
 
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Interesting stuff Dwight, a page back you were trying to tell me there was no way coyote populations could reduced and now on your website you state coyotes are in danger because of bounties or hunting...


Quote off your site-

" Predator hunting tournaments or contests are also becoming increasingly popular and, according to the government, are permitted because the populations of predators, like wolves and coyotes, are not under threat".
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  #41  
Old 02-11-2016, 10:42 AM
Clarksen Clarksen is offline
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Originally Posted by jim summit View Post
Interesting stuff Dwight, a page back you were trying to tell me there was no way coyote populations could reduced and now on your website you state coyotes are in danger because of bounties or hunting...


Quote off your site-

" Predator hunting tournaments or contests are also becoming increasingly popular and, according to the government, are permitted because the populations of predators, like wolves and coyotes, are not under threat".
It's disappointing to me when people who supposedly appreciate and understand predators, and coyotes in particular cannot engage in an honest discussion and can only denigrate an imaginary friend. Not a single person has said anything of substance, just innuendo and invective. If you are so weak in knowledge this is the best you can offer you should refrain from the discussion.

If there is something on a website that indicates coyotes are in danger from bounties or hunting then you are guaranteed it did not come from me. I have been trying to point out forever hunters and trappers, bounty or otherwise, cannot have any effect on coyote or wolf numbers period and play no role in managing them. Perhaps you do not like being confronted with the truth because it interferes with your mythical beliefs. This is fine with me, I only wanted to know what trappers thought. Unfortunately the 3 or 4 most active are not representative of trappers from my personal experience with others.

I have learned there are a few who are not open to discussion and too set in their ways to offer meaningful information. Sennecker is an exception having a business to protect, and from his comments only interested in protecting the status quo. As I said previously I have no interest in exchanging information with him.

I welcome discussion on points I have put forward, but personal attacks are pointless. They do not further the discussion and have no influence on me. My friend NICARAGUA warned me and I now see what he meant.
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  #42  
Old 02-11-2016, 10:49 AM
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drake drake is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Clarksen View Post
It's disappointing to me when people who supposedly appreciate and understand predators, and coyotes in particular cannot engage in an honest discussion and can only denigrate an imaginary friend. Not a single person has said anything of substance, just innuendo and invective. If you are so weak in knowledge this is the best you can offer you should refrain from the discussion.

If there is something on a website that indicates coyotes are in danger from bounties or hunting then you are guaranteed it did not come from me. I have been trying to point out forever hunters and trappers, bounty or otherwise, cannot have any effect on coyote or wolf numbers period and play no role in managing them. Perhaps you do not like being confronted with the truth because it interferes with your mythical beliefs. This is fine with me, I only wanted to know what trappers thought. Unfortunately the 3 or 4 most active are not representative of trappers from my personal experience with others.

I have learned there are a few who are not open to discussion and too set in their ways to offer meaningful information. Sennecker is an exception having a business to protect, and from his comments only interested in protecting the status quo. As I said previously I have no interest in exchanging information with him.

I welcome discussion on points I have put forward, but personal attacks are pointless. They do not further the discussion and have no influence on me. My friend NICARAGUA warned me and I now see what he meant.
What is your agenda?....
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  #43  
Old 02-11-2016, 11:04 AM
Clarksen Clarksen is offline
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What is your agenda?....
My "agenda" is to have a better understanding of the relationship between coyotes and wolves primarily, and people. I believe you have lovers and haters on opposing sides and equally misinformed, and in the middle the animals and hopefully a large moderate group of people. I am trying to promote discussion which will result in a better understanding for everyone. I am learning that extremists on both sides are holding up the debate and am afraid that government will keep reacting politically at the expense of the predators. You have a Bambi culture on one side and predator hater on the other, both committed in their beliefs.
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  #44  
Old 02-11-2016, 11:20 AM
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drake drake is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Clarksen View Post
My "agenda" is to have a better understanding of the relationship between coyotes and wolves primarily, and people. I believe you have lovers and haters on opposing sides and equally misinformed, and in the middle the animals and hopefully a large moderate group of people. I am trying to promote discussion which will result in a better understanding for everyone. I am learning that extremists on both sides are holding up the debate and am afraid that government will keep reacting politically at the expense of the predators. You have a Bambi culture on one side and predator hater on the other, both committed in their beliefs.


Where do you rank on the spectrum between "bambi culture and predator hater". Are your pro canine trapping (common neck snares included).
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  #45  
Old 02-11-2016, 11:22 AM
APAShooter APAShooter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Clarksen View Post
My "agenda" is to have a better understanding of the relationship between coyotes and wolves primarily, and people. I believe you have lovers and haters on opposing sides and equally misinformed, and in the middle the animals and hopefully a large moderate group of people. I am trying to promote discussion which will result in a better understanding for everyone. I am learning that extremists on both sides are holding up the debate and am afraid that government will keep reacting politically at the expense of the predators. You have a Bambi culture on one side and predator hater on the other, both committed in their beliefs.
So why is it when several experienced trappers on here . . . the forum you chose to ask the question . . . tell you that YES trapping/snaring coyotes does effect populations and absolutely can be considered a management tool to control predators you dismiss it as "Not a single person has said anything of substance, just innuendo and invective." Your words . .

Who are you to tell the world that your "models" are facts and that years and year of boots on the ground experience by the people closest to the situation is nothing more than "innuendo".

I have been dealing with people like you in the hunting, fishing and now trapping world my entire life . . . this is the only time i will waste in response, because that is what it is a waste of time.
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  #46  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:07 PM
Clarksen Clarksen is offline
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So why is it when several experienced trappers on here . . . the forum you chose to ask the question . . . tell you that YES trapping/snaring coyotes does effect populations and absolutely can be considered a management tool to control predators you dismiss it as "Not a single person has said anything of substance, just innuendo and invective." Your words . .

Who are you to tell the world that your "models" are facts and that years and year of boots on the ground experience by the people closest to the situation is nothing more than "innuendo".

I have been dealing with people like you in the hunting, fishing and now trapping world my entire life . . . this is the only time i will waste in response, because that is what it is a waste of time.
I agree it is a waste of time but I'll leave you with a single question that no one has answered despite it being posed at least twice. It is fundamental that it be answered if you are going to manage coyote or wolf populations and is very simple.

If you are going to manipulate populations then the mortality you inflict must be additive to the normal year to year average mortality the population experiences. If this mortality inflicted by hunters and trappers is additive why is it that populations are not declining and the species will be extirpated shortly? This is the most basic and proven concept of population dynamics.

Is hunter and trapper inflicted mortality on coyotes and wolves additive or not?
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  #47  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:21 PM
martinnordegg martinnordegg is offline
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I'm not going to post on here much anymore but I just have to ask the same question that Drake asked Dwight (Clarksen)...so are you in favor or pro of using neck snares for canines?
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  #48  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:23 PM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Yes I fully agree with hunting and trapping coyotes and wolves and have done so my entire life excepting recently, now I only shoot them. I started calling when I was about 10 years old with a Pied Piper call from the US which cost about a dollar. They are a challenging animal we can hunt with no fear of reducing numbers and with coyotes today even make a dollar.
"...Snares are archaic and torturous devices which should have been banned years ago..."

Quote by Dwight Rodtka, self proclaimed wolf expert
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  #49  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:33 PM
martinnordegg martinnordegg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty S View Post
"...Snares are archaic and torturous devices which should have been banned years ago..."

Quote by Dwight Rodtka, self proclaimed wolf expert
Self proclaimed is very correct.

This whole smear campaign by Dwight (Clarksen) started when he was denied incentive money for a couple wolves he had snared. The pictures which are a requirement for proof were suspect in several aspects and therefore the Club denied any incentive payment.

Since then he has gone more than out of his way to discredit trappers in the eyes of anyone that will listen including Govt. Ministers and Deputy Ministers.

His credentials only include trapping a couple beaver for the County.
No point in saying much more and I probably won't be posting much more on here anyway.

His biggest problem could originate from too much self medication.
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  #50  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:43 PM
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drake drake is offline
 
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Originally Posted by martinnordegg View Post
Self proclaimed is very correct.

This whole smear campaign by Dwight (Clarksen) started when he was denied incentive money for a couple wolves he had snared. The pictures which are a requirement for proof were suspect in several aspects and therefore the Club denied any incentive payment.

Since then he has gone more than out of his way to discredit trappers in the eyes of anyone that will listen including Govt. Ministers and Deputy Ministers.

His credentials only include trapping a couple beaver for the County.
No point in saying much more and I probably won't be posting much more on here anyway.

His biggest problem could originate from too much self medication.
Dwight is an important contributor on the website below and published this nasty little bit of anti trapping propaganda too....

http://www.wolfmatters.org/the-truth-about-snares.html

Its time for the moderators to give him the boot....
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  #51  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:50 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Originally Posted by Clarksen View Post
My "agenda" is to have a better understanding of the relationship between coyotes and wolves primarily, and people. I believe you have lovers and haters on opposing sides and equally misinformed, and in the middle the animals and hopefully a large moderate group of people. I am trying to promote discussion which will result in a better understanding for everyone. I am learning that extremists on both sides are holding up the debate and am afraid that government will keep reacting politically at the expense of the predators. You have a Bambi culture on one side and predator hater on the other, both committed in their beliefs.
Given your writings, I find it mildly amusing that you don't consider yourself an extremist in your beliefs. Are you in denial or simply out of touch with reality?
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  #52  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:56 PM
martinnordegg martinnordegg is offline
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Looks like he ran away again. If anyone's Wife by chance are using LUSH Cosmetic Products throw them in the trash. They are one of the sponsors for this clown.
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  #53  
Old 02-11-2016, 01:51 PM
Clarksen Clarksen is offline
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It's interesting how trying to have a reasoned discussion with trappers can be turned into a rodeo by a handful who must feel threatened, I guess. I would hate to feel that insecure.

If snares are now the issue there is a recent peer reviewed paper, by I assume, your imaginary friend D and Proulx which indicates snares are not humane and goes into detail explaining why. I got mine online and I'm sure you could google it. Having snared coyotes for years I found it very informative.

I hope goosejerky can just ignore all this unfortunate drivel and continue trapping coyotes without any worry of "decimating the population".
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  #54  
Old 02-11-2016, 02:22 PM
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drake drake is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Clarksen View Post
It's interesting how trying to have a reasoned discussion with trappers can be turned into a rodeo by a handful who must feel threatened, I guess. I would hate to feel that insecure.

If snares are now the issue there is a recent peer reviewed paper, by I assume, your imaginary friend D and Proulx which indicates snares are not humane and goes into detail explaining why. I got mine online and I'm sure you could google it. Having snared coyotes for years I found it very informative.

I hope goosejerky can just ignore all this unfortunate drivel and continue trapping coyotes without any worry of "decimating the population".
once again...

Where do you rank on the spectrum between "bambi culture and predator hater". Are your pro canine trapping (common neck snares included).
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  #55  
Old 02-11-2016, 02:35 PM
goosejerky goosejerky is offline
 
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Would you mind indicating approximately where you are located. I have never heard of trapping and hunting decreasing coyote numbers anywhere.
perfect. thanks. go start a thread of your own if you want to add anything else. hijacking of threads really chaps my *****.

back to the point here...
I have started to notice quite a few more rabbits, partridge, and grouse in many of the spots i am trapping which will make many f the land owners i am trapping for quite happy. can anyone else share their personal experiences with this?
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  #56  
Old 02-11-2016, 02:53 PM
Clarksen Clarksen is offline
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once again...

Where do you rank on the spectrum between "bambi culture and predator hater". Are your pro canine trapping (common neck snares included).
This question was asked and I answered in post 30. With the release of the latest paper on snaring I wouldn't be surprised if a check time for them just as with traps was introduced. I would agree with this because we all know things can go wrong and animals are not always killed in a reasonable time. You see this in the photos posted here often and is true in my experience.
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  #57  
Old 02-11-2016, 03:49 PM
martinnordegg martinnordegg is offline
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Originally Posted by Clarksen View Post
This question was asked and I answered in post 30. With the release of the latest paper on snaring I wouldn't be surprised if a check time for them just as with traps was introduced. I would agree with this because we all know things can go wrong and animals are not always killed in a reasonable time. You see this in the photos posted here often and is true in my experience.
You didn't answer anything in post 30 but you did here and I thank you. Obviously you are on a one sided so called discussion, fishing for information you will twist into promoting your bogus cause.

Now that we know you are promoting 48 hour check times for killing devices on RFMA's and 24 hour checks on resident sets I get what your agenda is.

I read the snaring propaganda (paper) a long time ago, and most of it is to put it bluntly....BS.

Proulx should have his Degree rescinded.

I would hope any further discussions with you end. Try not to get lonely.
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  #58  
Old 02-11-2016, 04:32 PM
Gboe8 Gboe8 is offline
 
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You guys are all giving him exactly what he wants by arguing with him and calling him out ignor his posts and let's get on with productive trap talk till he gets banned once again.
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  #59  
Old 02-11-2016, 04:53 PM
Clarksen Clarksen is offline
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Originally Posted by martinnordegg View Post
You didn't answer anything in post 30 but you did here and I thank you. Obviously you are on a one sided so called discussion, fishing for information you will twist into promoting your bogus cause.

Now that we know you are promoting 48 hour check times for killing devices on RFMA's and 24 hour checks on resident sets I get what your agenda is.

I read the snaring propaganda (paper) a long time ago, and most of it is to put it bluntly....BS.

Proulx should have his Degree rescinded.

I would hope any further discussions with you end. Try not to get lonely.
Brilliant assessment of the snaring paper!......and my agenda as well. I'm not sure how you will fare having Proulx's degree rescinded, he is highly respected worldwide and the paper was peer reviewed by some of the best.

I said goodbye in #46 but you asked more questions of me? - Goodbye!
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  #60  
Old 02-11-2016, 04:57 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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back to the point here...
I have started to notice quite a few more rabbits, partridge, and grouse in many of the spots i am trapping which will make many f the land owners i am trapping for quite happy. can anyone else share their personal experiences with this?
I haven't noticed an increase but I have definitely noticed that there hasn't been much of a decrease since I started trapping this season......which is kind of the same I guess.
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