Bullet stability vs flight time

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

It's plain to see that you can't spell "couldn't", so, since it's you, it can't be a spelling contest, a farting or burping contest would better suit your intellect. It's quite obvious where your head, and therefore your brains, are located. I'd want you to utilize your best assets. Get it? Or do you need a blank piece of paper and some crayons? Considering your performance so far, I'll give you a hint. What's the first 3 letters of asset? Still require help? No problem, just let me know. Help yourself to that one.

Bobby B.

Hands down this is the most entertaining post, as well as thread, that I've read in a longtime. This is an internet forum, few of us know each other, so if there's anywhere we can call someone a Bull__sh___tter, without really insulting them, this should be the place.

I, with a smile on my face, also call BS on this 1/4" 500 yard group stuff. It's like saying that because you play beer league hockey, you can keep up with Wayne Gretzky in his prime. All of us mortals would like to, love to, and maybe even have dreams of being able to, but most would only be crazy enough to publicly proclaim it if we were very inebriated.

Come on guys. 260 Rem and Bobby B simply began to draw attention to the truth.

[sns2]

BTW. Bobby B shoots at my range, and trust me, I have seen him firsthand coax the most out of various rifles, if you know what I mean. I have never personally seen .260 Rem shoot, but have seen pictures of his shooting on this forum.

They are two of the last guys that I would challenge to a shooting throw-down

[DaleJ]

1/4 MOA at 100 yds is 1/4". 1/4 MOA at 500 yds is 1.20" not 1/4". Nobody claimed to shoot 1/4" 500 yd groups.

I would gladly shoot against anybody, but not to prove they're wrong or I'm right. Competing unites shooters. Forums like this segregate shooters.

The rifles I would bring to a shoot-off are 1000 yd benchrest rifles shot from a pedestal with a rear bag.

Of the two people that fantastic shooters you've only seen one shoot?

The two people drawing attention to the truth are biased and their postings reveal they are not long range shooters.

The OP was about bullets stabilizing at short range, not dick size!

[Bobby B.]

Dale,

Please explain to me where or how I'm being biased.

I've attempted to clarify my position before but it appears as though either my writing skills were at fault, or there exists a lack of reading comprehension amongst some members. Either way, I do want to be understood so I will restate my position one last time.

You claimed that shooting 1/4" moa out to 500 yards is not too difficult if the conditions are good. A 1/4 moa group at 500 yards is roughly 1.25". This is extremely exceptional shooting. I have personally heard or read many accounts of such shooting prowess but have yet to bear witness to it first hand. So, when you claimed the ease of which you shoot 1/4" moa at 500 yards, naturally I called BS.

Unfortunately, some of your supporters were confused by my words and took offense to my call. Consequently, they hinted that I should come compare my shooting skills to yours. And to place some $$$ on the outcome. As I had never claimed to be either a superior shooter to yourself, or a shooter of any great skill, I suggested a shooting match between yourself and Sam Hill (Sam Hall?). Again this generated confusion among some members and one went so far as to state that I had claimed to be a personal friend of Sam Hills.

As one member was rather determined to push the issue and involve me personally, I decided I would become involved personally. As I mentioned earlier, I do not profess to be a great shooter therefore I would not enter a competition involving shooting. However, I do have confidence in my ability to reason and so challenged that member to a 'let's see which one of us is smarter' contest. Predictably, this too produced confusion in some members' minds.

Well, next thing you know, some verbal jabs were exchanged, things degraded rapidly, and a few of us decided to engage in some trash talk. In the end, absolutely nothing was accomplished. No real surprise there.

Anyway, I do hope this clarifies my postion on postings of easy 1/4" moa groups at 500 yards.

Bobby B.

[DaleJ]

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

Maybe that's all true about Sam. But, Sam is merely a benchrest shooter while Dale is an internet shooter. And that makes all the difference!

Bobby B.

This would explain the term "BIASED"!!!!!

[260 Rem]

DaleJ - why don't you put this thread to bed and post the agg group sizes shot at intermediate or long range competitions in which you have shot this year. How Bobby or I shoot is irrelevant to your statement in post 33 that shooting 1/4MOA isn't all that tough at 500 yds if conditions are good. I have done a search of several sites to get the info from various Alberta competitions without luck so looks like we need to rely on you to provide the data.
I did ask in a previous post if club members with competition data could provide the info, but no one has come forward....hopefully they will ...
I have never shot in competition and do not claim to be a top notch shooter. The fact that I am not a long range shooter, does not mean I cannot read and understand the stuff that goes into long range shooting. It really boils down to the fact that you need to be able to consistently hold 1/4 MOA at 100 yds if you hope to be able to hold 1/4 MOA at any greater distance. I shoot almost every day and I think getting 1/4" groups at 110 yds (100M) is pretty tough. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. I mentioned I logged over a hundred consecutive five shot groups which agg'd 0.3" at 100M. Less than half of those groups were under 1/4" which leads me to claim that shooting under 1/4 MOA (even at short range) is not "easy" ---at least not for this shooter.
Come on guys --- post your club competition results so we can see what "good" really looks like. The data must be there, and the proof is on the paper!

[Bobby B.]

Originally Posted by DaleJ

This would explain the term "BIASED"!!!!!

Once I stopped laughing, all I could think of was to say, "Really?". Do you mean to imply that I'm biased because I believe claims on the internet might be suspect? Please explain with a bit more detail. Biased how?

Bobby B.

[Bobby B.]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

DaleJ - why don't you put this thread to bed and post the agg group sizes shot at intermediate or long range competitions in which you have shot this year. How Bobby or I shoot is irrelevant to your statement in post 33 that shooting 1/4MOA isn't all that tough at 500 yds if conditions are good. I have done a search of several sites to get the info from various Alberta competitions without luck so looks like we need to rely on you to provide the data.
I did ask in a previous post if club members with competition data could provide the info, but no one has come forward....hopefully they will ...
I have never shot in competition and do not claim to be a top notch shooter. The fact that I am not a long range shooter, does not mean I cannot read and understand the stuff that goes into long range shooting. It really boils down to the fact that you need to be able to consistently hold 1/4 MOA at 100 yds if you hope to be able to hold 1/4 MOA at any greater distance. I shoot almost every day and I think getting 1/4" groups at 110 yds (100M) is pretty tough. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. I mentioned I logged over a hundred consecutive five shot groups which agg'd 0.3" at 100M. Less than half of those groups were under 1/4" which leads me to claim that shooting under 1/4 MOA (even at short range) is not "easy" ---at least not for this shooter.
Come on guys --- post your club competition results so we can see what "good" really looks like. The data must be there, and the proof is on the paper!

x2. Appears to be a reasonable request.

Bobby B.

[260 Rem]

A little more perspective.... Just reading an article posted on 6mmbr.com titled "600 yd World Record Light Gun" in which David Stripling set a new International Benchrest Shooters record of 1.07" at 600 yds.... which was the best of the 2.59" agg he shot that day. This record for "light guns" which are limited to 17 lbs, shatters the previous IBS record group of 1.363".
Another article titled "600 Yard BR" talks about a 600 yd NBRSA competition in Sacramento (an old one featuring an old guy) in which a 76 yr old driver won "light gun" with a 3.275" agg.
Given that the NBRA involves a fair sized stable of shooters at any of their competitions, I wonder how our best here in Alberta compare. Could we be better. Yes!
I look forward to the data our members will post in this thread that shows we are

[sns2]

I still maintain that anyone on this, or any other forum, that claims to easily shoot 1/4 moa at 500 yards, without regularly challenging for first place in benchrest competitions, is to quote Bobby B, an "internet shooter."

This has nothing to do with one's genital size, but everything to do with one's sense of reality, or lack thereof.

The last person who claimed such feats was a young teenage boy who liked enjoyed shooting coyotes. He had an excuse for his claims - an overactive teenage imagination, but he was corrected as to his understanding of shooting terms.

I still call BS on this one.

And I enjoy reading the throwdowns

[Bobby B.]

Originally Posted by sns2

I still maintain that anyone on this, or any other forum, that claims to easily shoot 1/4 moa at 500 yards, without regularly challenging for first place in benchrest competitions, is to quote Bobby B, an "internet shooter."

This has nothing to do with one's genital size, but everything to do with one's sense of reality, or lack thereof.

The last person who claimed such feats was a young teenage boy who liked enjoyed shooting coyotes. He had an excuse for his claims - an overactive teenage imagination, but he was corrected as to his understanding of shooting terms.

I still call BS on this one.

And I enjoy reading the throwdowns

Well, it looks like one bunch is gonna start selling Girl Guide cookies and I'm getting a feeling which bunch it is. The one's with the bunch in their panties.

Bobby B.

[Bobby B.]

Just to make sure we're all speaking the same lingo here. If some superstar wants to step forward and shoot groups for $$$, I'm into it.

If Dale wants to shoot groups at 500 yards and wants to put some $$$ into it, I'm all in favor. How about Dale and his fans put some $$$ down as will I. For every 5 shot group of 1.25" or less at 500 yards Dale shoots, I pay some $$$. For every group in excess of 1.25" at 500 yards, Dale and his fans pay me some $$$. The question is, how much money Dale and his fans want to place on the table. Bring it. Are you full of skill or are you full of chit? Are you an internet shooter? Really?

Bobby B.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

Just to make sure we're all speaking the same lingo here. If some superstar wants to step forward and shoot groups for $$$, I'm into it.

If Dale wants to shoot groups at 500 yards and wants to put some $$$ into it, I'm all in favor. How about Dale and his fans put some $$$ down as will I. For every 5 shot group of 1.25" or less at 500 yards Dale shoots, I pay some $$$. For every group in excess of 1.25" at 500 yards, Dale and his fans pay me some $$$. The question is, how much money Dale and his fans want to place on the table. Bring it. Are you full of skill or are you full of chit? Are you an internet shooter? Really?

Bobby B.

Methinks this thread is officially over. I'll take some of that action too.

[sns2]

In fact, I am willing to lay down cash on a perfectly calm day too.

[260 Rem]

Things have certainly been "calm" in this thread for the last day...no wind of any kind...no mirage from hot air Still waiting to see some competition shoot results that show we have shooters in this province that can run with the big dogs? Are records kept at these events?

[catnthehat]

deleted
Cat

[Bobby B.]

Best to just let it slide. I won't be posting on this thread again.

Bobby B.

[260 Rem]

That was my plan until a "sniper" showed up in another thread I posted...so thought I'd bring him back here where he belongs.

[Bobby B.]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

That was my plan until a "sniper" showed up in another thread I posted...so thought I'd bring him back here where he belongs.

Yes, I saw that, too. I was hoping he was only kidding, but who knows? On the other hand, some like to dish it out even if they can't take it. He might be one of those.

Bobby B.

[urcayuse]

You two remind me of those pair of old guys on the muppet show!
Entertaining ,yet in the end pointless .

[urcayuse]

Here is something useful,and informative.http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...t-video-37345/ I'd suspect this guy is in the "know"

[260 Rem]

Dale - My comment regarding your sensitivity to my attitude deserves some explanation. If you do a re-read, you will find that I never got "hissy" regarding your claim regarding the ease of shooting 1/4 MOA groups to 500yds. I hoped that my quotes of official IBS results would put things in perspective...and yes, you were "called" by a couple of members...and a couple of your supporters issued some "challenges". I never called your claim BS, and thought a call for shoot results would ferret out the size of real world groups shot in Alberta competions. At least then, we would have some perspective on the reality of the mid-long range results. As I mentioned in one of my posts, a guy who stands up in the bar and claims to be the toughest dude, should not get overly sensitive if somebody invites him to repeat the claim in the parking lot. And so it is on the internet.
I must confess, that I occassionally get a bit weary of "tack driving" claims and am not above asking for proof. That's why I will dig through the garbage to find a smoke pack to post for the shooter who tells me he regularly pokes holes in 'em at 300M with his Mossberg Night train topped with a 3-9 Simmons scope. To date, my "spidey senses" have never failed me.

[Bobby B.]

Originally Posted by urcayuse

You two remind me of those pair of old guys on the muppet show!
Entertaining ,yet in the end pointless .

You remind me of the Star Wars character Jar Jar Binks; annoyingly simple minded.

Bobby B.

[BigJon]

I don't have alot of money to put down and I don't feel like driving far to watch...BUT if people come up here to Peace River to Dale's turf to shoot it out, I'll throw some money on Dale for some friendly wagers!