Another case of Too Much Best Of The West

[nekred]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The issue is that people like I encountered at the range, and people like Fasteel has posted about, are not following John's phlosophy. They seem to have the impression that once they have the correct equipment, they don't need the training or the practise.

So once again how is this a BOTW issue? Why is it that too much BOTW is the title of the thread? Maybe it is a case of not enought BOTW!...

I have heard people say they wish there was a training system for long distance shooting so that people could learn how to do it properly without wounding game..... Then a system comes along and now it is saying it is promoting the people to take long distance pot shots at game?

There is just no winning,

There was once a time that maybw you were in same position and same level of skill and how did you learn? I am guessing you had to have a mentor. You may have had even some of the same thoughts and misconceptions. That you now know to be erroneous. So cut a guy some slack and assist him without bringing your own perceptions into it....

You make comments on people from Ft. Mac..... Welll with the people I have had the privelege to meet and converse with on here from Fort Mac I would say your opinion and mine would be at odds!....

When a person transfers all their own assumptions into another person or situation is when prejudice rears its ugly head!...

[Speckle55]

Before BOTW

Kentuckey Long Rifle
Sharps 50 - 54
30-06
7mm Mag
300 mag
338 mag
other cals

all long range guns

IN THE HANDS of a SHOOTER they are DEADLY

BOTW TV show is a tool to share their passion in the sport and btw i enjoy

I have shot long range since i was 17 and it started with a 30-06 1972
the changes in equipment is unreal

in the end most shooters say shoot shoot shoot and get to know your gun and load and be able to read wind

the guy you were talking too.. was at the range to shoot shoot shoot.. the rest is your opinion of him as you said you only talked to him once..

what i would do is ask if i could help with his new gun and shoot with him or spot for him and set up my spotting scope and call his shots

the way people come across is sometimes the opposite of what they are,, he may have been puffing up his chest and later said to him self why did i do that i must of sounded like a idiot..

i try to find the best in people and work on helping them in the sport as we are on here doing remember Elk lots of 17 yr olds are reading what we are posting

There are people on here that thought that 200 yds was far 4 years ago now they are taking animals at 500 yards NP.. and now have change their equipment to take advantage of the latest tech in the field of Longe Range Shooting..

To all the New Long Range Shooters ..shoot shoot shoot you will love the challenge

Wayne Gretzky didn,t get good at hockey with out the time being put in

Food for Thought
David

[Dan the Saskbertan]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

I have been looked at through a scope, when I confronted the guy he said "can't afford binoculars, guns not loaded". I have watched those hunting shows where they shoot game at 7- 8 hundred yards. they are all a bunch of *****s. Thats not hunting, thats just crap. If you can't get at least 200 yards from you game, you should not be out there to start with,
nuff said:

Spoken like a true hunter..... who sights his 30-30 on a pie plate at 50 yds. You sound a bit jealous of hunters with the gear & education.

I shoot both a .338 Lapua and a .300 RUM, do load development and play with them all year. I also have range cards with correct MOA adjustments developed for both for different temperature conditions out to 800yds.

Where I live the shots can be very long and successfully harvested deer in excess of 500 yds, one harvest 2 yrs ago was 580 yds. A 200-300 yd shot is average and you will not get 100 yd shots here. I am responsible so I hunt to the prevailing conditions to make ethical shots.

Long range hunting is a way of adapting to terrain more than anything else.

Dan

[elkhunter11]

There was once a time that maybw you were in same position and same level of skill and how did you learn? I am guessing you had to have a mentor. You may have had even some of the same thoughts and misconceptions. That you now know to be erroneous. So cut a guy some slack and assist him without bringing your own perceptions into it....

I learned by shooting, and observing the results. Way back when I started shooting, we didn't have computers or ballistic programs, or chronographs.We did have some trajectory tables in reloading manuals, but we didn't have chronographs to verify velocity, or even charts for some bullets.As such, we built our own drop charts by shooting loads at various distances. While we were shooting, we also observed how wind effected the point of impact, so we applied what we observed in determining where to hold, or how to compensate by adjusting our scopes. Yes it was slow, but it did teach us about ballistics, and it did allow us to shoot accurately, at the distances that we chose to shoot at. These days,I use ballistic calculators, chronographs, and laser rangefinders to make things simpler, but I don't regret having learned what I did, by actual shooting.
As for mentors, I had mentors to teach me the basics of reloading and shooting, but much of what I have learned about ballistics was learned through experience.

You make comments on people from Ft. Mac..... Welll with the people I have had the privelege to meet and converse with on here from Fort Mac I would say your opinion and mine would be at odds!....

I know many very knowledgeable people in this city, people like Cat,Old Badger, and Sullijr, and many others who are not forum members. These people have many years of experience, and are willing to help out whenever possible. However, in the 32+ years that I have lived in the city, I have also met many individuals that choose to buy the very best products, and then either abuse the equipment, or simply not bother learning to operate it properly.

That being said, I have been fortunate enough to have taken several people to our range as guests, and loan them my equipment to introduce them to shooting, be it trap/skeet,rifle or handgun. Several of these people are now active club members. I also have had several people into my home, or I have travelled to their home, to get them started reloading. As well, I have helped many people choose equipment, and have mounted their scopes, or taught them how to properly clean their firearms. I have had the priviledge of accompanying several people on their first hunts, to see them harvest their first game animals. It's not that I don't encourage new hunters or shooters, I just don't agree with people trying to use equipment in place of training and experience.

[Chewbacca]

All I know is this, when I can shoot as good as my hunting rifle can I'll be good.
I like to go out on windy days and shoot my .22 at a hunert yards. Good practice.

[gitrdun]

Try it at tree hunert and see how she goes, by.

[duceman]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Try it at tree hunert and see how she goes, by.

TREE HUNERT!!!! lord tunderin! i'd bee's in da next province at home!!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Rigpig25

All I know is this, when I can shoot as good as my hunting rifle can I'll be good.
I like to go out on windy days and shoot my .22 at a hunert yards. Good practice.

Here's a 200 yard target shot with a .22LR match rifle.
You get about the same bullet behaviour as far as conditions go as at 308 palma bullet at 1,000 - but not quite exactly the same.
It ain't no "'tree hundert" though!!

Cat

[remmy300]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

You actually can see all those things with scopes and irons if you know what you are looking at.

I have no problem with people that are capable of shooting at distance to take and animal.
I DO have issues with people that cannot and shoot anyway, be it at an animal at 700 or 70, if you are not capable of the shot do not take it - this includes stuff like too much wind, animals running through bush , downward angle shots have not been practised, etc
WE rely way too much on equipment these days and not enough on practising with that equipment.

While we are at it however, one should remember that just because we do not do something does not mean there are people out there that can , and we should no be putting our capabilities and ethics out there as some rule that all should follow.
I know many people that think 200 yards is too far and NO ONE should be shooting at that distance at an animal.

It's seen all the time by traditional archers versus compound shooters, lever guys and long distance rifle shooters, irons shooters against scope shooters, and I have seen the arguments for and against on both both sides, non of which hold water. hell we even have people saying you are unethical if you shoot a certain kind of bullet now.

Lumping all this into the same pile as someone pointing a rifle at you is nonsense however, because they are two different issues .
One should take a pill and go for a walk in this case.
Cat

Very well said cat!!

[foxhunter540]

wow a sniper can take a human out at over 1000 yards and we call him a hero and pat him on the back. A guy shoots a deer at 800 yards and he isn't a hunter. I shoot long range so far up too 500 yards on paper, it takes alot of shooting to hit a good group but i'm nowwhere ready to try shooting a deer maybe one day right now i enjoy trying to improve my groups.To each there own but don't knock it till ya try it.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by foxhunter540

wow a sniper can take a human out at over 1000 yards and we call him a hero and pat him on the back. A guy shoots a deer at 800 yards and he isn't a hunter. I shoot long range so far up too 500 yards on paper, it takes alot of shooting to hit a good group but i'm nowwhere ready to try shooting a deer maybe one day right now i enjoy trying to improve my groups.To each there own but don't knock it till ya try it.

The issue that some have is that the sniper is a very well trained person who's job is to kell someone at those distances, and they use different rilfes and trainign techneques than the average hunter does.
Couple that with the amount of trigger time they employ , and the number of snipers in the armed forces as opposed to those long range kills that are acttually made and the picture becomes a bit clearer.

The orignal complaint, of course is not with those that can shoot at extreme distances, but with those that buy equipment thinking that they will be able to without practicing the same.

I firmly believe that a hunter should be able to cleanly kill his quarry at the distances for which he is capable, not those distances that they think they can, be it because of technology , self supposed expertise or whatever reason they think that entitles them to make a shot outside of their competentcy.
Cat

[depopulator]

[QUOTE=nekred;1535221]There is just no winning...QUOTE]

But AO certainly has no shortage of whining ...

[elkhunter11]

The orignal complaint, of course is not with those that can shoot at extreme distances, but with those that buy equipment thinking that they will be able to without practicing the same.

I firmly believe that a hunter should be able to cleanly kill his quarry at the distances for which he is capable, not those distances that they think they can, be it because of technology , self supposed expertise or whatever reason they think that entitles them to make a shot outside of their competentcy.
Cat

Well said!That is exactly what his thread is about.

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