Where is it legal to shoot handguns ?

[lone wolf]

Please don't burn me at the stake me for lack of knowledge, however I have a question regarding where (and where not) a shooter is legally permitted to use a handgun for recreational purposes. My understanding was that the use of handguns was restricted to a designated range or shooting facility - true or false ? I am asking because I met a group this afternoon who were shooting handguns (on private property - not theirs) along the banks of the SSR, north of Medicine Hat.

Comments ?

[elkhunter11]

Restricted firearms can be fired at ranges or facilities approved for their use.

[NUK SOO KOW]

It is illegal to discharge a restricted weapon anywhere in Canada except at an approved range.

[NUK SOO KOW]

The law is very stupid and I disagree with it. It is what it is. These guys could get in ALOT of trouble if ever caught.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by NUK SOO KOW

The law is very stupid and I disagree with it. It is what it is. These guys could get in ALOT of trouble if ever caught.

Yes it is.....as I pick up spent brass off my back deck! and fire up the BBQ off that same deck. Boy do I love to live where I live.

[NUK SOO KOW]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Yes it is.....as I pick up spent brass off my back deck! and fire up the BBQ off that same deck. Boy do I love to live where I live.

Jealous.

[wolfman403]

I always find this a little ridiculus an 18 year old kid can buy a 50 cal barret but I can't shoot gophers with my 22 pistol. Is there no justice in this world.

[dogslayer403]

Originally Posted by wolfman403

I always find this a little ridiculus an 18 year old kid can buy a 50 cal barret but I can't shoot gophers with my 22 pistol. Is there no justice in this world.

x2 It would be nice to be able to use them for reasonable purposes like that.

[elkhunter11]

I always find this a little ridiculus an 18 year old kid can buy a 50 cal barret but I can't shoot gophers with my 22 pistol.

An 18 year old can buy a 50 caliber in Canada, but not a Barrett, as they are on the prohibited list.

[Rocky7]

There's no law about where you can, and cannot, fire a handgun.

There IS a law about where you need to keep it (at your residence) and how you can move it from there and to what place (range).

Not the same thing.

If you consider your back deck as part of your "residence" - which a surveyor will do - then you have not left your residence when you take it onto your deck for cleaning, admiring it, giving it some sun or - shooting it.

I've already had this discussion with the Firearms Centre. They were stumped and referred me to the CFO. She agree with me.

If you agree with me, you do so at your own risk. I don't want complaints if John Law or a judge sees it differently. Read up on the law for yourself, please. That's what I did. That's what I see. I don't see anything whatsoever about "shooting" your restricted.

Clearly, the SSR is not part of anyone's "residence" so unless there is a range there, it's not kosher. Were they hurting anybody?

[lone wolf]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Clearly, the SSR is not part of anyone's "residence" so unless there is a range there, it's not kosher. Were they hurting anybody?

IMHO "No harm, no foul"

I met them on the trail exiting the property. They were polite, respectful and friendly. Just wanted to determine the legalities of handgun practice.

[Rman]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

An 18 year old can buy a 50 caliber in Canada, but not a Barrett, as they are on the prohibited list.

Again, some, not all Barrett .50 products are prohibited in Canada, however, all .50 products are non exportable by the US Gov't.
Please stop spreading further mis-information.

R

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by lone wolf

IMHO "No harm, no foul"

I met them on the trail exiting the property. They were polite, respectful and friendly. Just wanted to determine the legalities of handgun practice.

Good to hear, bud. Truck on.

[Ruger1022]

Before guys are shooting restricted firearms off the back deck think twice, you may ONLY discharge restriced firearms at approved shooting clubs and ranges in CANADA. Even on private property it is illegal to discharge restricted.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Ruger1022

Before guys are shooting restricted firearms off the back deck think twice, you may ONLY discharge restriced firearms at approved shooting clubs and ranges in CANADA. Even on private property it is illegal to discharge restricted.

If it's not too much trouble, please post a link or paste that law here. I have not found any such restriction but would be happily corrected if I've overlooked something in the Criminal Code, the Firearms Act, their regulations and the Wildlife Act.

[GeoTrekr]

I'm with Rocky on this one. There doesn't seem to be a law that states you cannot load a restricted firearm in your house, yet I see people quoting this constantly. I was also under that impression myself, but I can't remember where I read/heard/was told that.

There ARE laws concerning transport of the firearm to approved ranges, which then fall under CFO approval, but shooting from your dwelling would make these transport requirements irrelevant because you're not transporting the firearm anywhere.

This is all assuming of course that there is no municipal bylaw in your area preventing you from discharging a firearm of course, because Section 15 of the "Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations" to the Firearms Act reads:

HANDLING OF FIREARMS

15. An individual may load a firearm or handle a loaded firearm only in a place where the firearm may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.

So far I haven't seen anything put forward by anyone that would specifically outlaw shooting a restricted from your dwelling on your own property in an area where such discharge isn't prohibited by municipal by-laws.

If there is something, that in black and white states that this practice is in fact prohibited, then I would like to see it posted, and this thread stickied to lay this to rest once and for all, as this question comes up again and again.

[Ruger1022]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

If it's not too much trouble, please post a link or paste that law here. I have not found any such restriction but would be happily corrected if I've overlooked something in the Criminal Code, the Firearms Act, their regulations and the Wildlife Act.

Its not that easy Rocky, and YES it would be alot of trouble for the fact it's about Canadian gun laws.

Section 95(1) criminal code:
:Possession of prohibited or restricted firearm with ammunition

95. (1) Subject to subsection (3), every person commits an offence who, in any place, possesses a loaded prohibited firearm or restricted firearm, or an unloaded prohibited firearm or restricted firearm together with readily accessible ammunition that is capable of being discharged in the firearm, unless the person is the holder of
(a) an authorization or a licence under which the person may possess the firearm in that place; and
(b) the registration certificate for the firearm.
Punishment

(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of
(i) in the case of a first offence, three years, and

(ii) in the case of a second or subsequent offence, five years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year."

And the firearm act:
Places where prohibited and restricted firearms may be possessed

17. Subject to sections 19 and 20, a prohibited firearm or restricted firearm, the holder of the registration certificate for which is an individual, may be possessed only at the dwelling-house of the individual, as recorded in the Canadian Firearms Registry, or at a place authorized by a chief firearms officer.
1995, c. 39, s. 17; 2003, c. 8, s. 15.

So under the criminal code you may NOT shoot from a dwelling as it would be unsafe. Under the firearms act you may shoot if your property is approved by a CFO.

Long story short, If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

If one want the risk losing their firearm's and or spending their life savings on court fees becase they feel the need to shoot restricted firearms on private property.., well be my guest and let me know how it goes!!

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by GeoTrekr

I'm with Rocky on this one. There doesn't seem to be a law that states you cannot load a restricted firearm in your house, yet I see people quoting this constantly. I was also under that impression myself, but I can't remember where I read/heard/was told that.

There ARE laws concerning transport of the firearm to approved ranges, which then fall under CFO approval, but shooting from your dwelling would make these transport requirements irrelevant because you're not transporting the firearm anywhere.

This is all assuming of course that there is no municipal bylaw in your area preventing you from discharging a firearm of course, because Section 15 of the "Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations" to the Firearms Act reads:



So far I haven't seen anything put forward by anyone that would specifically outlaw shooting a restricted from your dwelling on your own property in an area where such discharge isn't prohibited by municipal by-laws.

If there is something, that in black and white states that this practice is in fact prohibited, then I would like to see it posted, and this thread stickied to lay this to rest once and for all, as this question comes up again and again.

Exactly. That's where I ended up in my discussions with the Firearms Center and the CFO. Absent local bylaws and other safety restrictions - shoot.

We have enough dimwitted, unnecessary restrictions without inventing more. Did I mention: "aggravating, annoying, useless, offensive, irrational and tryanical"?

When I owned a pistol, I took the screen off my kitchen window, made a pot of coffee, shoved over the table and comfy chair and some boxes of ammo, turned on some Waylon and used to spend pleasant summer afternoons potting gophers who were digging up my potatoes. I wouldn't have minded so much if they ate what they dug up, but they'd dig one up, have a bite and dig up another. A lot were getting sunburned.

Nowadays I have kids and wouldn't shoot out the window, but a back deck can be entirely safe, seems to me.

(Yes, I live out in the country)

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Ruger1022

So under the criminal code you may NOT shoot from a dwelling as it would be unsafe. Under the firearms act you may shoot if your property is approved by a CFO.

You quoted part of the law and then leap to a conclusion that isn't there. Legislation is not an exercise in creative writing. It means what it says and it says what it means. It doesn't mean what you want or think it should say.

Wanna try again? I'm not interested in your opinion, btw. I am interested in a law that says what you claim. If have it, post it. If you don't, calm down.

[Ruger1022]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

You quoted part of the law and then leap to a conclusion that isn't there. Legislation is not an exercise in creative writing. It means what it says and it says what it means. It doesn't mean what you want or think it should say.

Wanna try again? I'm not interested in your opinion, btw. I am interested in a law that says what you claim. If have it, post it. If you don't, calm down.

I am calm, your response tells me that maybe your Internet trolling. If you think you have the answer to legally shoot pistols on private property, then by all means be my guest and shoot away. Please let me know when you get caught how it goes.. Btw lighten up I am not the law, I am just trying to help. WOW.. Also from what I have seen with gun laws in Canada you are guilty untill you prove yourself innocent.

[GeoTrekr]

95. (1) Subject to subsection (3), every person commits an offence who, in any place, possesses a loaded prohibited firearm or restricted firearm, or an unloaded prohibited firearm or restricted firearm together with readily accessible ammunition that is capable of being discharged in the firearm, unless the person is the holder of
(a) an authorization or a licence under which the person may possess the firearm in that place; and
(b) the registration certificate for the firearm.

Your license authorizes you to possess the restricted. Your registration slip for your restricted should also be in your possession. Ergo, no offense is committed under Section 95.

17. Subject to sections 19 and 20, a prohibited firearm or restricted firearm, the holder of the registration certificate for which is an individual, may be possessed only at the dwelling-house of the individual, as recorded in the Canadian Firearms Registry, or at a place authorized by a chief firearms officer.
1995, c. 39, s. 17; 2003, c. 8, s. 15.

This reaffirms what we have already established: That you can possess your restricted firearm in your dwelling-house. The definition of this can be interpreted loosely (eg. a deck, under the roof's overhang, or further, though I would think that would start to push it), or strictly (eg. inside).

Neither of these sections preclude one from shooting from inside the dwelling. Out in the middle of your backyard or in the pasture, yes (because you have moved away from the dwelling, which falls under the authority of the ATT, which stipulates you must be in the dwelling or at the range), but not from within the dwelling.

I am not trying to convince every Tom, Dick and Harry that it is perfectly legal to go ahead and start blasting away from the porch with the .44 wheelgun. I would however like to dig down to the truth on this matter, because we know the RCMP and CFO like to present their policies as law, and there is often a lot of misinformation floating around, due in part to a Canadian Firearms Safety Course Manual that was created with the cooperation of the Coalition for Gun Control, and as a result, often states things within the manual that a gun owner SHOULD do which in reality go above and beyond the actual law.

[220swifty]

Originally Posted by GeoTrekr

Your license authorizes you to possess the restricted.



This reaffirms what we have already established: That you can possess your restricted firearm in your dwelling-house. The definition of this can be interpreted loosely (eg. a deck, under the roof's overhang, or further, though I would think that would start to push it), or strictly (eg. inside).

My interpretation of dwelling-house, going back to some law classes i took years ago, means under the roofline of the building you live in. And to think my wife wants a wrap around covered deck included when we buy a chunk of land and build our house.

[GeoTrekr]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

My interpretation of dwelling-house, going back to some law classes i took years ago, means under the roofline of the building you live in. And to think my wife wants a wrap around covered deck included when we buy a chunk of land and build our house.

And that's probably closer to the truth 220swifty. Another interesting twist I came across when searching discussions about this matter on another forum is that a motorhome can also be your registered dwelling-house for purposes of the Firearms Act if you are indeed living there. Now there are some interesting implications lol.

[Ruger1022]

Originally Posted by GeoTrekr

And that's probably closer to the truth 220swifty. Another interesting twist I came across when searching discussions about this matter on another forum is that a motorhome can also be your registered dwelling-house for purposes of the Firearms Act if you are indeed living there. Now there are some interesting implications lol.

all provinces have laws prohibiting the discharge of firearms where it is unsafe to do so, ie your home. It is an ambiguous law, as many are.
Now can you convince a judge that it is safe to fire a handgun in your house??..

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

My interpretation of dwelling-house, going back to some law classes i took years ago, means under the roofline of the building you live in.

Bull.

Everything attached to the ground becomes a "fixture" in law. That's what your house is. It's a fixture. The deck is part of the fixture, hence it's part of your house, aka "dwelling house", because that's where you live.

Using your "reasoning", all I need is a roof over my deck. Which, btw, I happen to have. And which is irrelevant.

Have you never seen a Real Property Report when you bought your house?

I went all through this with the Firearms Center. They said what you said. I asked to be pointed to the legislation or regulation that says I can only fire a restricted at a range. On hold. Supervisor comes on. Same question. On hold. Supervisor says it must be in provincial legislation, please call the CFO. I do. She agrees with me.

Bottom line: Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Everybody's not entitled to their own facts....or their own law.

If you have it, post it. If you don't, please refrain from amateur opinions. K?

[GeoTrekr]

Originally Posted by Ruger1022

all provinces have laws prohibiting the discharge of firearms where it is unsafe to do so, ie your home. It is an ambiguous law, as many are.
Now can convince a judge that it is safe to fire a handgun in your house??..

You're right about the provincial acts/regs, but the only one I know of regarding firearms is the Wildlife Act. In that Act, my motorhome example gets ruled out (illegal to discharge a firearm from a vehicle), but the only portion of that act that appears to apply to this situation would be:

Firearms around buildings

52(1) No person shall
(a) discharge a weapon, or
(b) cause a projectile from a weapon to pass

within 200 yards of any occupied building.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to
(a) the owner or occupant of, or the person having immediate possession or control of, the land on which the building is situated, or
(b) a person authorized to perform the activity by a person referred to in clause (a).

And there is of course the exemption in part (2), so this would not be a problem if the marksman was the owner.

[Ruger1022]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Bull.

Everything attached to the ground becomes a "fixture" in law. That's what your house is. It's a fixture. The deck is part of the fixture, hence it's part of your house, aka "dwelling house", because that's where you live.

Using your "reasoning", all I need is a roof over my deck. Which, btw, I happen to have. And which is irrelevant.

Have you never seen a Real Property Report when you bought your house?

I went all through this with the Firearms Center. They said what you said. I asked to be pointed to the legislation or regulation that says I can only fire a restricted at a range. On hold. Supervisor comes on. Same question. On hold. Supervisor says it must be in provincial legislation, please call the CFO. I do. She agrees with me.

Bottom line: Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Everybody's not entitled to their own facts....or their own law.

If you have it, post it. If you don't, please refrain from amateur opinions. K?

You just dont get it do you, Its not about "FACTS" it about convincing a judge when you get caught. Most of our gun laws contradict, so many grey areas. The best bet is to find someone who was caught and ask them why the can't legally possess firearms anymore.

Or how about you,. with "FACTS" tell me how it is legal to shoot a restricted in your home or on private property, if its not to much trouble?..

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Ruger1022

You just dont get it do you, Its not about "FACTS" it about convincing a judge when you get caught. Most of our gun laws contradict, so many grey areas. The best bet is to find someone who was caught and ask them why the can't legally possess firearms anymore.

Or how about you,. with "FACTS" tell me how it is legal to shoot a restricted in your home or on private property, if its not to much trouble?..

No, it's you who don't get it.

In a free and democratic society, which this is, I can do whatever the he!! I want unless - and only unless - some law says I can't. Judges are not permitted to make up legislation and neither are the RCMP. That's what Parliament and the Legislature does. It's made public. Find it or admit it's not there. If you can find, I'd like to see it, I really would. If not, then please stop claiming such a law exists.

You think we can only do things which we are expressly permitted to do. There's names for countries like that and governments like that. "Canada" or "Alberta" is not among them.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by GeoTrekr

And there is of course the exemption in part (2), so this would not be a problem if the marksman was the owner.

Quite right. That's why this is not available to those who live in towns (which would probably have bylaws anyway) or to those who live on small acreages and are within that distance from their neighbour's occupied house.

But none of that deals with handguns or restricteds; it's about shooting anything. And that much makes some sense.

[GeoTrekr]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Judges are not permitted to make up legislation and neither are the RCMP.

Though anyone involved in the recent decisions surrounding the Armi Jager AP80, Walther G22, Norinco Type 97, and Squires Bingham AK22 may be experiencing a different reality than that in bold... But I digress...