Another case of Too Much Best Of The West

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Pincherguy

I apolagise gentlemen, it was not my intention to upset or degrade anyone. Probably had one too many and should have kept my big mouth shut. Once again I am sorry if I offended you.

It's not like you called anyone a Nazi.

[rwm1273]

I had an older Bushnell scope on my rifle, and when I upgraded it to a newer Bushnell, I could see so much better. A good scope does help, but does not make up for ability.

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

It's not like you called anyone a Nazi.

not tonight honey I got a headache!

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I had an older Bushnell scope on my rifle, and when I upgraded it to a newer Bushnell, I could see so much better. A good scope does help, but does not make up for ability.

Reminds me of the two door Yugo I had. I upgraded to a four door Yugo and it was more comfortable.

Doesn't matter how many Bushnells you have, sooner or later your friends are gonna see it ain't a Huskemaw.

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by eric2381

You're a jerk. Just had to go do that , eh? LOL.

I'm gonna go do some shooting. First I better watch How to dope the wind beyond belief. Then I'll get my Huskemaw wind meter and my Huskemaw scope and my Gunwerks rifle and go throw some lead out there......

Nah, I'll watch the grass, mirage, feel it and hear it and shoot my rifle adjusting in minutes or if it's too windy, I won't take that long shot.

To the guys hating on long range shooting, go pound sand. I'm not criticizing how you hunt. I like taking em up close, but I also like taking em farther out, if I have to.


Many, many guys have no idea how long 1000yds is to shoot. It's hard to listen to so many guys tell stories how they've shot a deer at 600yds with thier old 270. "Just held barely over it's back". They have no idea....

Sorry. Couldn't help it.

I have been practicing longer ranges for 2 years now. I have also been looking for a spot that I could ethically try a longer shot.

I found that spot last year that harbours Mulie does and plan to set up for the shot this fall. I have an alfalfa field in a shallow bowl that has high trees on the edge of the prevailing winds. There is a slightly elevated position that I can shoot from that is between 450 and 600 yards away from the trails they are using. I figure that this is the spot for me to put my practice to the test.

I have been shooting a steel gong out to 600 and can put 10 out of 10 on the gong with light winds. Obviously the wind will be the big questioning factor here for me. If I judge it to be more than 10 I won't shoot.

Any other suggestions are sure to be well received.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Reminds me of the two door Yugo I had. I upgraded to a four door Yugo and it was more comfortable.

Doesn't matter how many Bushnells you have, sooner or later your friends are gonna see it ain't a Huskemaw.

I have never seen a Huskemaw. I doubt it would help me shoot any better than I do without it. But it may help me see more clearly.

Was your Yugo the big block or the small block?

[Redfrog]

Big block with a big eye hook welded to it. Made a heckuva boat anchor.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Big block with a big eye hook welded to it. Made a heckuva boat anchor.

Until it rusts to nothing.

[Speckle55]

All i know is at our club the guys/gals are practicing out to 530 meters and then they have a bush range thats shooting 1200yard gongs and 1600yds and any where in between and they are practicing practicing practicing and i would love to spot for them any time as i love this sport .. i have a 12 year old(mentored) thats a Shooter and will get better as he ages .. he loads his own ..300 yds are easy for him..

but then you have the other side that people do think you can just buy the equipment and just shoot.. we should just train those people and show them the right way to do this sport ..thats why we have a free Yellowhead Fun Day Rendezvous where we supply guns /bows/shotguns at our club to show the right way and talk to them.. Aug 11 this year.. www.Hintonfishandgame.ca

even on here we are teaching some by our words as to the right way to do this and showing others that there are new ways of hunting and shooting



Food for Thought
David

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

All i know is at our club the guys/gals are practicing out to 530 meters and then they have a bush range thats shooting 1200yard gongs and 1600yds and any where in between and they are practicing practicing practicing and i would love to spot for them any time as i love this sport .. i have a 12 year old(mentored) thats a Shooter and will get better as he ages .. he loads his own ..300 yds are easy for him..

but then you have the other side that people do think you can just buy the equipment and just shoot.. we should just train those people and show them the right way to do this sport ..thats why we have a free Yellowhead Fun Day Rendezvous where we supply guns /bows/shotguns at our club to show the right way and talk to them.. Aug 11 this year.. www.Hintonfishandgame.ca

even on here we are teaching some by our words as to the right way to do this and showing others that there are new ways of hunting and shooting



Food for Thought
David

Got no problem with folks that practice and are aware what can happen on the bullets travel to the target at long range. Mix that with some ethics, good judgement and there shouldn't be anymore problem taking game at 1000yds than there is at 100 yds. I have seen guys at the range who can't hit targets at 300 yds with their 300 magnums saying they are looking to buy these types of rifles so they can shoot animals at 1000yds. They watch the videos and figure it is a cinch. It totally escapes many of them that if they can't hit stuff at 2 or 300 yds getting a new rifle with fancy knobs on the scope isn't going to make a difference. Many will sight in at 100-300 yds(most ranges don't go to 1000yds or more) then consult the trajectory tables for further distances, spin some turrets and try shooting at extended range expecting to hit critters.

It would be much appreciated if these gun and video pushers would stress how much practice it takes to be competent, show every shot they take not just the few successful one shot kills, it would be nice if they had conscience enough to try and make folks think twice and fully understand what they are undertaking. It's bad enough that many of us hunters can't reliably hit stuff at close range only to be told by these companies that if you buy their rifle package your good to go at 1000+

[sullijr]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Typical, we are seeing it more and more up here.
There has been a rash of high dollar, big calibre boomers up here as well, many having never fired at any great distance before but all convinced that the cartridge will compensate for their lack of ability.
Not only on the center fire range but on all the ranges.
I was never aware that a $3,500 shotgun would outshoot a $700 shotgun, even if the guy shooting the cheaper Turkish gun was shooting it better than the guy with the B gun!!

Cat

I have my wife convinced that a $28,000 Peratzzi will outshoot any other shotgun and don't any one tell her different

[Lefty-Canuck]

These "Best of the West" fan boys.....are like people who buy a Bow-Flex and expect that just by owning it you shed 40lbs and become shredded.....good gear can assist to hone your skills but you need some skills to begin with....

LC

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by sullijr

I have my wife convinced that a $28,000 Peratzzi will outshoot any other shotgun and don't any one tell her different

THAT is completely different, and if she asks me I will tell her "of course"!!
Cat

[huntin]

I'd rather see long range shooters than bush pushers.

[Don Cherry]

My wife that has no past with shooting got her mulie draw last year so she spent 2 weeks with me shooting my 308 custom toped with the huskamaw scope went out and shot a 160" deer at 400 yds 1 shot 1 kill so all you guys that think you have to shoot for 30 years to make a shot over 200 yds need to give your head a shake the advancement in BDC & windage is unreal but saying that you still need to practice!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Don Cherry

My wife that has no past with shooting got her mulie draw last year so she spent 2 weeks with me shooting my 308 custom toped with the huskamaw scope went out and shot a 160" deer at 400 yds 1 shot 1 kill so all you guys that think you have to shoot for 30 years to make a shot over 200 yds need to give your head a shake the advancement in BDC & windage is unreal but saying that you still need to practice!

Not trying to knock you or your wife but 400 yards is not an apples/apples comparison when you are talking 400 yards compared to 1000 yards....I am sorry but I don't need to and many others here don't need a Huskemaw scope or a BDC or a ballistic chart or a custom rifle to make a 400 yard shot....for a newbie yes that is a good shot, obviously you gave her enough practice in order to make it....or she was lucky

LC

[elkhunter11]

Not trying to knock you or your wife but 400 yards is not an apples/apples comparison when you are talking 400 yards compared to 1000 yards....I am sorry but I don't need to and many others here don't need a Huskemaw scope or a BDC or a ballistic chart to make a 400 yard shot....

I have made several kills on big game animals at over 400 yards, without a Huskemaw scope, or any BDC scope for that matter. And even with the modern scopes, if you can't read the wind, even a 400 yard shot can easily become a miss, or worse yet a wounding shot. The only way to learn to read wind, is by shooting in the wind. Even a hand held instrument that measures wind speed at the shooters location, can't tell you the wind speed and direction even 400 yards away, let alone 700 yards away or more.,

[Don Cherry]

#1 you dont have to tell me this i shoot long distance 1000 meters + not with my 308 ... Im just saying that you do not have to be shooting for years to make long shots

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Don Cherry

#1 you dont have to tell me this i shoot long distance 1000 meters + not with my 308 ... Im just saying that you do not have to be shooting for years to make long shots

The point I and some others are trying to make is all the "top gear" in the world can't make a bad shooter a good shooter.....BUT it seems "top gear" gives certain people the false confidence to TRY IT on living game without KNOWING first.

LC

[mr.pike]

you mean you cant just buy the "good bullets" and "dial'' the scope in?Doesnt that scope come with a turret for my caliber ready to go?

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Don Cherry

#1 you dont have to tell me this i shoot long distance 1000 meters + not with my 308 ... Im just saying that you do not have to be shooting for years to make long shots

Years don't mean anything. Number of rounds of practice is whats important. Your wife probably got more experience in 2 weeks practice than many people get in many years if not a lifetime. There are guys out there who have hunted for 30 years and haven't shot 5 boxes of shells the entire time...

[rugatika]

Just ruined my dreams...cancelled my order for my Huskemaw scope...AND my Bowflex.

What's on TV?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Just ruined my dreams...cancelled my order for my Huskemaw scope...AND my Bowflex.

What's on TV?

What.....you don't want to be Tom Berenger anymore???



LC

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Don Cherry

My wife that has no past with shooting got her mulie draw last year so she spent 2 weeks with me shooting my 308 custom toped with the huskamaw scope went out and shot a 160" deer at 400 yds 1 shot 1 kill so all you guys that think you have to shoot for 30 years to make a shot over 200 yds need to give your head a shake the advancement in BDC & windage is unreal but saying that you still need to practice!

Good equipment helps make things easier, but does not make up for skill. Most people get skill with lots of practice. Others just have skills ooze from them.

Sounds like your wife is one of the latter. A 400m shot is not easy, but not impossible. But the average guy can't just put a high end scope on a rifle and shoot 400+m shots without some practice.

[nekred]

One thing about BOTW is that it does get people more interested in shooting longer distances. one thing i have seen stressed there is that you need to spend a lot of range time to gte good, and it also explains the technological advances and the importance of getting into a good position with a proper rest to be able to make long shots.

The other huge technological advancement is a range finder. Take the average joe out there and ask him to judge the difference between 400 and 450 and very few can do it.... and we know how much drop there is... then we ask them to differentiate between 700 and 800.... and the bullet drop there.... Range finders and range finding methods have definitely helped out as well.

Many folks get mil-dot scopes and don't know how to use them properly to measure distance.

BOTW have definitely reduced the shooting curve, they teach many things that used to cost a lot of ammo for some people to figure out.

I have done a fair bit of long distance shooting and due to the expense and because I was intrigued by archery I got into that to try it out. For many people that want to get into long distance shooting i take them with a good .22 out into a gopher field and shoot gophers at over 100 yards. 100 yards on a gopher witha .22 is probably same amount of skill required to take a deer at 400 yards and ammo is much cheaper for practice.

Hey I have to give kudos to BOTW because they do remove some of the "mystique" of long range shooting and explain the basics...and I think they do well to explain how much trigger time is needed to get proficient.

All of the doping (wind, mirage, etc.) all have to be learned from trigger time...

I know for teaching my boys using a .22 is the way to go, no recoil and they learn pretty quick how to read wind etc.

In the end they have to make money, look how hard it is to get people to pay for training and knowledge on how to shoot. Many times as an archery coach/instructor you can see people that could benefit from some knowledge and don't want it, and those who want it but won't pay for it.... So they sell people a shooting system that includes gear and training and people think it is the gear that helps them not realising that the inflated price they are paying includes training.

An analogy is B-Stinger stabilizers in archery. These came packaged with some training and knowledge and then they became the greatest thing... not that the equipment was different just came with some very good instruction...

That is what I see with the huskemaw scopes/ Gunwerks. It is good quality equipment but mixed with knowledge it definitely helps...

Knowledge and gear is the combination. Take a 30/30 lever action with a lot of knowledge and you are not making a 400 yard shot on an elk....(Except for a few rare occasions)... or take a BOTW shooting system and not have the knowledge... youa re in same situation.

However the two items again from BOTW is take the guess work out of range, Dial the scope accoordingly, then use a stable steady shooting position and it removes a lot of variables, that a good shooter accounts for anyways. Then it simplifies the process.

But only if the knowledge is applied, and tp get people to want that knowledge is what BOTW excels at.... they took a scope nobody heard of and made it a household word (maybe even a curse word to some people)...

Wonder if Leupold wishes they would have thought of it first!...

Originally Posted by Don Cherry

My wife that has no past with shooting got her mulie draw last year so she spent 2 weeks with me shooting my 308 custom toped with the huskamaw scope went out and shot a 160" deer at 400 yds 1 shot 1 kill so all you guys that think you have to shoot for 30 years to make a shot over 200 yds need to give your head a shake the advancement in BDC & windage is unreal but saying that you still need to practice!

Ya, I've found the same thing. It really doesn't take a lot of coaching to get someone shooting to 400 or 500 meters. I could easily have a non-shooter hitting a gong at 400 yards 10 out of 10 in 30 minutes. It's those that have shot for a while that are tougher...you need to break all the bad habits before creating new, good habits. Obviously shooting off a bench is different than hunting in the field but as you say, the new gear sure shortens the learning curve.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Ya, I've found the same thing. It really doesn't take a lot of coaching to get someone shooting to 400 or 500 meters. I could easily have a non-shooter hitting a gong at 400 yards 10 out of 10 in 30 minutes. It's those that have shot for a while that are tougher...you need to break all the bad habits before creating new, good habits. Obviously shooting off a bench is different than hunting in the field but as you say, the new gear sure shortens the learning curve.

I find it is not so much breaking the bad habits, but the resistance to change that often the barrier, and I find that ladies new to the sport are the most teachable because they listen and don't have the macho thing going on...

Men "know it all already" the are the provider, when they put their ego in their pocket and change their attitude to one of a learner the lesson teaches itself.

Sme thing with a teacher... if they are all macho and egotistical it gets the macho thing going in the learner and when the teacher is humble the lesson teaches itself...

In many languages other than English teacher and learner are the same word!... For example... "Guru" is a word that does not translate into English well. It means one who fosters learning.

Ever notice the best teachers are usually the most humble!... they don't need an ego because their skill shows itself.

The other quality is Patience, So often as an instructor I felt the need to jump in and intervene to help someone improve, but until they are ready for the lesson, they have to be ready to change!....

[elkhunter11]

To be totally honest, if I set the scope adjustments for them, I could likely have a newer shooter hitting a target the size of a big game animal's kill zone at 400 yards almost instantly in calm conditions. However, as soon as significant wind is added to the equation, the situation changes dramatically. As well, if a rifle was sighted in at 20 degrees , and they are hunting in -20, the velocity can change enough to cause issues. As the distance increases to 700 yards or more, putting a relatively inexperienced shooter in the situation where they have to read and compensate for significant wind by themselves, is setting them up for failure.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

To be totally honest, if I set the scope adjustments for them, I could likely have a newer shooter hitting a target the size of a big game animal's kill zone at 400 yards almost instantly in calm conditions. However, as soon as significant wind is added to the equation, the situation changes dramatically. As well, if a rifle was sighted in at 20 degrees , and they are hunting in -20, the velocity can change enough to cause issues. As the distance increases to 700 yards or more, putting a relatively inexperienced shooter in the situation where they have to read and compensate for significant wind by themselves, is setting them up for failure.

I agree but the two big variables (distance and using a rest) are teken care of, the ones you mention need trigger time for which there is no substitute.

But all that can be figured through a good shooting coimputer and agian is just knowledge....

20 years ago most people would hold high for distance and left right for wind... today people can dial it... and use stadia in scope now for wind... knowing how much takes time and practice.... and when winds are gusty then it really becomes even more chancy!... or if you have different wind speeds and directions between launch pint and target point....

[Jamie Black R/T]

i was out doing some load developement on my new rig yesterday afternoon...a few neighbors stopped by as they normally do when im out shooting. We had a pop and bs'd for a bit. They were floored at the accuracy of my groups. I preached the benefits of reloading and practicing etc.

Funny part is im totally unhappy with all the loads i tested...the best 100 yard, 5 shot group, i managed was 1.25"...NOT acceptable at all.

only reason i posted here was because in the frame of about an hour one of them asked me if i was using a huskemaw scope, then why i wasnt using a huskemaw scope, then what i thought of the huskemaw line of scopes.

that show is a marketing machine and is working very well for a few businesses. Maybe i should replace my VXL with one so i can get better groups out of my rifle?