Another case of Too Much Best Of The West

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

My point is, that you brought John Porter into this thread, and in his case, experience and training is much,much more of a factor than the scope that he chooses to use will ever be. Porter didn't just run out, buy a Huskemaw scope, and become a great shooter as a result. He was already an accomplished shooter before BOTW was being broadcast, and likely before Huskemaw scopes ever existed.

Something else that might be worth considering would be just who decides what the scope turrets should be adjusted to for the guest shooters on BOTW. Does each shooter read the wind, and the yardage, and then decide for themselves what adjustments to make for their shot on that once of a lifetime animal, or do they rely on John Porter , or some other expert to read the conditions, and then decide on the turret adjustments? With a decent rest, and someone else telling you the correct adjustments to dial into the scope, it's not all that big of a deal to shoot longer ranges, it takes more skill to read the conditions and then arrive at the correct turret adjustments.

Unfortunately the average consumer that purchases the Huskemaw scope, does not have the expert shooter from BOTW with him, to read the conditions, and determine the correct turret adjustments for each shot opportunity that he may encounter in the field.

Elk, you could make a beagle dizzy going in circles in this thread.

Again you seem to be missing my point. No John didn't go out and buy a Huskemaw and become an expert shooter....he was an expert shooter that used his skills and knowledge to help develop a product to aid other shooters in short cutting their way into effective long range shooting.

Actually shooters do have an expert like John to help them...he's on television every week doing just that, he hold clinics and makes hundres of personal appearances as do those that work with him. No doubt there are a small naive group that figure buying a scope will put them in John's league just as there are a group that figure buying a sports car will make them a NASCAR driver or that a suppliment will make them a UFC fighter but at the end of the day, those groups are small, naive, midguided and certainly not the creation of the television show.

The vast majority get that it's a blend of technology and practice that will help them acheive their goal and I susp[ect that's the group that BOTW targets. I bet like me, they figure most people get what they are saying and a small group just doesn't and would be shooting irresponsibly regardless of whether their show or products existed. You seem to be blaming BOTW for this small group......common sense and little worldly experience says they exist regardless. Funny how society is always looking for a scapegoat. Guess it's easier than looking in the mirror.

I'm guessing Batman didn't cause the tragedy in Aurora but I bet like you blaming BOTW for the actions of a few, others will blame the movie for the actions of a madman. Sorry, it just doesn't wash.

[scrapper]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I guess the same could be said about those that watch NASCAR, UFC, Miss America or America's Got Talent. At the end of the day, there are going to be a small percentage of people that abuse technology and the vast majority are going to understand the resposibility that comes with it. We can't keep catering to the lowest common denominator or blame the actions of a few on a television series that promotes responsible long-range shooting. Okay, I guess some people can blame them but to me that seems overly naive. It's kinda like blaming the Batman movies for the tragedy in Aurora.

Very well said, good points made in this comment

[scrapper]

Guys, while I am enjoying this battle of opinions that has no apparent resolution in sight, may I point out what all shows on Wild TV have in common is a little thing called editing, you will notice that you will never see anyone miss on Jim Schocky either... well his dad did miss a shot on a bear but of course that was the guides fault. They edit out the misses on purpose(more time to run ads). Sure some of the archery shows have a little fun with misses and I saw a guy on the PIG MAN series miss a shot or two.....but for the most part misses are edited out and used when the show makes a blooper episode.

I think Elk has made his point, I also feel that for the most part common sense would win over and suggest that most buyers and enthusiests of long range shooting gear have a good hunting ethics, and practice as much or probably more than the average person.

What we really need here is for the poor bugger who has been ripped apart from limb to limb based on someone quoting him spouting off at a range. Frankly we need him to get word on this thread and given the opportunity to speak in his own defense. For all we know he was just jerking someones chain to get a rise out of him.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

My point is, that you brought John Porter into this thread, and in his case, experience and training is much,much more of a factor than the scope that he chooses to use will ever be. Porter didn't just run out, buy a Huskemaw scope, and become a great shooter as a result. He was already an accomplished shooter before BOTW was being broadcast, and likely before Huskemaw scopes ever existed.

Something else that might be worth considering would be just who decides what the scope turrets should be adjusted to for the guest shooters on BOTW. Does each shooter read the wind, and the yardage, and then decide for themselves what adjustments to make for their shot on that once of a lifetime animal, or do they rely on John Porter , or some other expert to read the conditions, and then decide on the turret adjustments? With a decent rest, and someone else telling you the correct adjustments to dial into the scope, it's not all that big of a deal to shoot longer ranges, it takes more skill to read the conditions and then arrive at the correct turret adjustments.

Unfortunately the average consumer that purchases the Huskemaw scope, does not have the expert shooter from BOTW with him, to read the conditions, and determine the correct turret adjustments for each shot opportunity that he may encounter in the field.

If you actually did some research on your own and check out the huskemaw website they have instructions on there how to figure out how to get the right turret... You seem to be relying on your own wrong assumptions and prejudices toward a specific company/product...

[elkhunter11]

Again you seem to be missing my point. No John didn't go out and buy a Huskemaw and become an expert shooter....he was an expert shooter that used his skills and knowledge to help develop a product to aid other shooters in short cutting their way into effective long range shooting.

I don't know the man personally, so I won't judge as to whether he promotes Huskemaw out of his desire to help other shooters, or to sell a product.

Actually shooters do have an expert like John to help them...he's on television every week doing just that, he hold clinics and makes hundres of personal appearances as do those that work with him.

Unfortunately when a person is in the field trying to read the conditions to make a shot, John won't be there to help him. Watching him on television, or talking to him at a show like Huntfest, may help pass on a few pointers, but it is not even remotely close to having someone in the field teaching them. You hold a trades ticket yourself. How would watching television or talking to a tradesman for a day or so compare to an actual apprenticeship where you are taught in the field? As to his personal appearances, once again, I won't judge him as to whether he genuinely wasnts to help other shooters out of the goodness of his heart, or whether he is simply there to promote a product.

No doubt there are a small naive group that figure buying a scope will put them in John's league just as there are a group that figure buying a sports car will make them a NASCAR driver or that a suppliment will make them a UFC fighter but at the end of the day, those groups are small, naive, midguided and certainly not the creation of the television show.

I do spend many days at the local range every year, and the number of people that I have encountered that are buying high dollar technology, and expecting it to make them competent shooters is surprising, and that number seems to be growing more and more lately. Perhaps it's my location , where wages are higher than normal, and people have more disposable income and less free time to commit, but whatever the reason, this is becoming more and more common.

The vast majority get that it's a blend of technology and practice that will help them acheive their goal and I susp[ect that's the group that BOTW targets.

Perhaps, but perhaps BOTW is promoting their line of products, to make money, like most other companies. In that case, they may be targeting whomever has the cash to buy their products.

And BOTW is not the only television program showcasing a product line, but the person that I was talking to never mentioned any other programs or products, so I never mentioned them. I don't blame BOTW or Porter for the actions and attitudes of those gullible individuals, like the one that I met on the weekend, but never showing misses, and making it seem so easy, does make their products seem so much more attractive to those individuals.

Guys, while I am enjoying this battle of opinions that has no apparent resolution in sight, may I point out what all shows on Wild TV have in common is a little thing called editing, you will notice that you will never see anyone miss on Jim Schocky either... well his dad did miss a shot on a bear but of course that was the guides fault. They edit out the misses on purpose(more time to run ads). Sure some of the archery shows have a little fun with misses and I saw a guy on the PIG MAN series miss a shot or two.....but for the most part misses are edited out and used when the show makes a blooper episode.

Exactly, showing the misses and screw ups, makes things appear more realistic, while not ever showing a miss makes the products and systems appear to be infallible. Actually, I did see Shockey show some misses on some shows, and I have also seen misses on shows that some of our forum members appear on, which I feel ads more realism, and credibility to those shows.

What we really need here is for the poor bugger who has been ripped apart from limb to limb based on someone quoting him spouting off at a range. Frankly we need him to get word on this thread and given the opportunity to speak in his own defense. For all we know he was just jerking someones chain to get a rise out of him.

He was as excited as a kid on Christmas morning, as he bragged about his new Huskemaw scope. If he was trying to pull someone's chain, he is a fantastic actor, as he had the attention of everyone present at the range, and everyone took him as being genuine. And he is far from the first person with similar ideals. Society in itself is changing, and people are for the most part getting lazier , and looking for shortcuts. He was however, one of the most enthusiastic about the topic.

If you actually did some research on your own and check out the huskemaw website they have instructions on there how to figure out how to get the right turret... You seem to be relying on your own wrong assumptions and prejudices toward a specific company/product...

I am very well aware of how turrets are calibrated for a given load, as well as how systems such as Leupolds CDS system work. I turn turrets myself on several of my own scopes by various manufacturers. I also own a Zeiss scope and a Swarovski scope with specialty reticles such as the Rapid Z, and I am well aware as to how to select the most suitable reticle for a given load, and how to use the magnification to fine tunethose reticles. So yes, I have done some research on the topics.

[nekred]

Oh and the guy that was at the range to practice and decide to figure it all out probably left in disgust and thought....

What an arrogant, self plumped, condescing, know it all SOB....

Why would you judge someone for helping develop a product that aids in long range shooting even if his intent was to make money??????? John's a great guy and really willing to help out fellow shooters but I have no doubt he does what he does to make a living.....kind of like we all do.

You seem awfully anxious to judge a lot of people. I think the fact that the guy bought the scope because as you said, he wasn't confident in his old scope speaks volumes. Add to that the fact he was at the range and it sounds like a pretty responsible shooter. I realize he was not up to your standards but hopefully with a few more trips to the range he'll become more familiar with his gear and improve his skills so he can take those longer range shots.

I think the fact that he also has someone setting his scope up properly also speaks to his character. Sounds like BOTW wasn't that bad of an influence on him.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Why would you judge someone for helping develop a product that aids in long range shooting even if his intent was to make money??????? John's a great guy and really willing to help out fellow shooters but I have no doubt he does what he does to make a living.....kind of like we all do.

You seem awfully anxious to judge a lot of people. I think the fact that the guy bought the scope because as you said, he wasn't confident in his old scope speaks volumes. Add to that the fact he was at the range and it sounds like a pretty responsible shooter. I realize he was not up to your standards but hopefully with a few more trips to the range he'll become more familiar with his gear and improve his skills so he can take those longer range shots.

I think the fact that he also has someone setting his scope up properly also speaks to his character. Sounds like BOTW wasn't that bad of an influence on him.

Well said!....

[elkhunter11]

Oh and the guy that was at the range to practice and decide to figure it all out probably left in disgust and thought....

What an arrogant, self plumped, condescing, know it all SOB....

I simply asked him couple of basic questions, as in if he handloaded,if he had access to a chronograph, and how he intended to judge the wind. A couple of other people aso asked related questions, such as how he knew the muzzle velocity of his load, or how that would change with temperature, or how to look for the lot number of a factory load. In almost every instance the answer was either that the scope compensated for it, or it didn't matter. After hearing the answers that he provided, everyone went back to shooting as he did. He seemed to be as pumped as before we talked to him.

I think the fact that he also has someone setting his scope up properly also speaks to his character. Sounds like BOTW wasn't that bad of an influence on him.

The other possibility is that he had no clue how to set up a scope properly, and would rather pay than take the time to learn. It's quite common in Fort Mcmurray with many things.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The other possibility is that he had no clue how to set up a scope properly, and couldn't be bothered learning how.

Who cares why he chose to have someone set it up properly....as long as it's set up properly....no? Seems to make sense to let the experts do what they do best.....kinda like your trades analogy. I set up the odd new grader that was shipped north when I worked as a mechanic...that didn't mean the grader operator was too stupid or lazy to operate it. If I hire a plumber does it mean I shouldn't be using my toilet?

So what...the guy isn't into reloading or lot numbers on ammo boxes or detailed ballistics. He's putting in the hands of someone that knows what they are doing so he can operate it....sounds responsible to me. I'm sure the boys will sell him to a wind speed indicator too or he'll see one on the next episode of BOTW and he'll be fine.

[Pathfinder76]

Nobody can keep idiots from being idiots. The Liberals try, but they fail.

While popular these days, blaming someone else for a problem that isn't his is ludicrous.

[Speckle55]

Lets all keep talking and teaching because this is a worthwhile sport to all hunters just as stalking or calling is and i have taught some of TV celeb's that you guys watch on Wild TV when they were first starting hunting .. now i enjoy watching them on TV.. and they will get nothing but better.. this tool of talking and posting is AWESOME.. yep that learning curve is shortening..

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek031.html

Food for Thought
David

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

.

Something else that might be worth considering would be just who decides what the scope turrets should be adjusted to for the guest shooters on BOTW. Does each shooter read the wind, and the yardage, and then decide for themselves what adjustments to make for their shot on that once of a lifetime animal, or do they rely on John Porter , or some other expert to read the conditions, and then decide on the turret adjustments? .

im sure im gonna regret getting in on this one, but that exact scenario happened a while back on BOTW.

a guy who looked right into the camera said he didnt have any idea how to adjust the scope or how to read the wind. he settled in behind a rifle he said he had never shot before, but john was going to adjust everything and all he had to do was pull the trigger.....and thats what happened. if i remember right it was an elk, not that it matters.

that scene im sure has convinced more than one silly bugger to go spend a bunch of money on magic equipment that will perform miracles for him. we will never hear the end of those stories , but you can bet there are some wounded animals involved.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by chuck

Nobody can keep idiots from being idiots. The Liberals try, but they fail.

While popular these days, blaming someone else for a problem that isn't his is ludicrous.

I'm still trying to contemplate this statement, but I'm leaning towards agreement.

[Mekanik]

How is this any different then the rash of guys who watched the first fast and furious movie, watched the condensed time that a couple of model/actors put together a "ten second" car in a week and then bugged every racing mechanic within ear shot that they were going to put "NOS" on their civic and have a ten second car?

How about the guy who wants to play music, drops $2500 on a les Paul custom, and his best song is smoke on the water? Well, at least he had the opening riff down.

I've dealt with both of these situations.

People see something cool, they want to fit in and they don't have the knowledge or skills to get there so they latch onto the coolest piece of gear they can find to try and fit in. Some will get it, some won't. In many cases those expensive pieces of gear will end up on eBay, or craigslist or kijiji after the novelty wears off and the hard work begins.

[elkhunter11]

How is this any different then the rash of guys who watched the first fast and furious movie, watched the condensed time that a couple of model/actors put together a "ten second" car in a week and then bugged every racing mechanic within ear shot that they were going to put "NOS" on their civic and have a ten second car?

How about the guy who wants to play music, drops $2500 on a les Paul custom, and his best song is smoke on the water? Well, at least he had the opening riff down.

I've dealt with both of these situations.

People see something cool, they want to fit in and they don't have the knowledge or skills to get there so they latch onto the coolest piece of gear they can find to try and fit in. Some will get it, some won't. In many cases those expensive pieces of gear will end up on eBay, or craigslist or kijiji after the novelty wears off and the hard work begins.

If these people are only going to shoot paper, then no harm is done. However, when they start using game animals to test their gear, that is a different situation. Unfortunately, from what I have seen, most of these people sight in at 100 yards or 200 yards, and then do their long range testing on animals.

m sure im gonna regret getting in on this one, but that exact scenario happened a while back on BOTW.

a guy who looked right into the camera said he didnt have any idea how to adjust the scope or how to read the wind. he settled in behind a rifle he said he had never shot before, but john was going to adjust everything and all he had to do was pull the trigger.....and thats what happened. if i remember right it was an elk, not that it matters.

that scene im sure has convinced more than one silly bugger to go spend a bunch of money on magic equipment that will perform miracles for him. we will never hear the end of those stories , but you can bet there are some wounded animals involved.

So is that person that shot the elk now a long range shooter? The show certainly made it look easy, when someone with virtually no experience can make the shot.

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

im sure im gonna regret getting in on this one, but that exact scenario happened a while back on BOTW.

a guy who looked right into the camera said he didnt have any idea how to adjust the scope or how to read the wind. he settled in behind a rifle he said he had never shot before, but john was going to adjust everything and all he had to do was pull the trigger.....and thats what happened. if i remember right it was an elk, not that it matters.

that scene im sure has convinced more than one silly bugger to go spend a bunch of money on magic equipment that will perform miracles for him. we will never hear the end of those stories , but you can bet there are some wounded animals involved.

No need to regret it ISB, I've seen that same scenario several times on the show. I've also seen other shows where they cock a crossbow for person and let them shot a deer and others where they bait a hook for a little girl and she catches a fish. IMHO it's all about getting people to experience the thrill that comes with these activities and fostering an interest so they become more involved. The one thing I've never seen, however, is John turning to the guy and telling him that he now knows everything he needs to to make that shot on his own. I think inteligent people watching the show get that. Sure, the idea is to capture people's imagination and get them buying the products but there is also enough info in the show for those with half a brain to know that John doesn't come with the scope and that there will be a bit of a learning curve. Yes, there will always be those with less than half a brain but we can't cater to them....as someone pointed out....Liberals constantly try but we've seen the success. BOTW does create stupid people...they exist regardless.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So is that person that shot the elk now a long range shooter? The show certainly made it look easy, when someone with virtually no experience can make the shot.

I guess for that moment in time they sure were. Hopefully it created enough interest that they'll follow up and learn more. To me, introducing people to new aspects of the sport ultimately makes the sport stronger.

When I bait a little guy's hook for him and he catches a fish....I've got no trouble calling him a fisherman at that moment Hopefully he continues on in life to be one.

[Xs24-7]

Not that I agree/disagree with "long range hunting"....as it is very dependant on the individual's skills....but I find the hypocracy of us hunters amusing. We will question a guy for taking/wanting to take a long range shot....yet if that same guy talked about shooting at a running deer at 200 yards with his .303, no one would question it.....yet I guarantee that 1000s more deer are wounded each year due to running shots than by the Guys who shoot long range.
I get the frustration in dealing with people who think they are buying a golden ticket, but in the grand sceme of things, their numbers are small enough that I don't loose any sleep over it.

[Faststeel]

having worked a retail gun counter for a few years, you have an opportunity to meet all kinds of fellows with all kinds of shooting capabilities. I have never heard of anyone that was into buying a Husk. scope that was an avid shooter and experienced hunter.
All the guys that I have heard talk about this product were guys looking for a short cut to long range success, period.

The fellow that Elk encountered at the range who doesn't really care for the recoil in his 300 win mag, ask him why he bought a 300 win mag. I'll bet he says cause it will shoot a long ways or some thing to that effect. I go to my range frequently and encounter countless number of folks that have less than a good idea of what they are doing with a rifle on the bench. These same fellows are going to go hunting and are going to shoot at animals that maybe out of their comfort zone, but what the heck why not give it a try.
You may think this is very small number of individuals, but it is a lot more than you think. FS

[Faststeel]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I guess for that moment in time they sure were. Hopefully it created enough interest that they'll follow up and learn more. To me, introducing people to new aspects of the sport ultimately makes the sport stronger.

When I bait a little guy's hook for him and he catches a fish....I've got no trouble calling him a fisherman at that moment Hopefully he continues on in life to be one.

Sheep

I don't see the comparison of baiting a childs hook vs setting up an inexperienced shooter with a rifle with a husk. scope on top, and saying now there you go. FS

Originally Posted by Faststeel

having worked a retail gun counter for a few years, you have an opportunity to meet all kinds of fellows with all kinds of shooting capabilities. I have never heard of anyone that was into buying a Husk. scope that was an avid shooter and experienced hunter.
All the guys that I have heard talk about this product were guys looking for a short cut to long range success, period.

The fellow that Elk encountered at the range who doesn't really care for the recoil in his 300 win mag, ask him why he bought a 300 win mag. I'll bet he says cause it will shoot a long ways or some thing to that effect. I go to my range frequently and encounter countless number of folks that have less than a good idea of what they are doing with a rifle on the bench. These same fellows are going to go hunting and are going to shoot at animals that maybe out of their comfort zone, but what the heck why not give it a try.
You may think this is very small number of individuals, but it is a lot more than you think. FS

Easy to cherry pick blame but the BOTW really promotes low recoil cartridges for long-range shooting. If the guy really did drink the koolaid as some would like us to believe, he'd undoubtedly be shooting a 6.5/284. We are getting a second hand impression from someone that wants to blame BOTW.....perhaps the story is a bit one-sided or perhaps the guy really was an unethical shooter. Either way, I don't see BOTW being to blame.

I'm guessing those same people would be shooting outside of their comfort zone regardless of the scope on their rifle. The fact is, they likely don't know they have a comfort zone. Blaming BOTW/Huskemaw scopes for people shooting beyond their ability is kind of like blaming guns for murders.

Originally Posted by Faststeel

Sheep

I don't see the comparison of baiting a childs hook vs setting up an inexperienced shooter with a rifle with a husk. scope on top, and saying now there you go. FS

Considering that's not really the comparison I made you likely have a point.

[elkhunter11]

having worked a retail gun counter for a few years, you have an opportunity to meet all kinds of fellows with all kinds of shooting capabilities. I have never heard of anyone that was into buying a Husk. scope that was an avid shooter and experienced hunter.
All the guys that I have heard talk about this product were guys looking for a short cut to long range success, period.

Why am I not surprised that your experiences match my own?

The fellow that Elk encountered at the range who doesn't really care for the recoil in his 300 win mag, ask him why he bought a 300 win mag. I'll bet he says cause it will shoot a long ways or some thing to that effect. I go to my range frequently and encounter countless number of folks that have less than a good idea of what they are doing with a rifle on the bench. These same fellows are going to go hunting and are going to shoot at animals that maybe out of their comfort zone, but what the heck why not give it a try.
You may think this is very small number of individuals, but it is a lot more than you think. FS

It appears that this trend is not limited to the range that I shoot at.

Easy to cherry pick blame but the BOTW really promotes low recoil cartridges for long-range shooting. If the guy really did drink the koolaid as some would like us to believe, he'd undoubtedly be shooting a 6.5/284.

Perhaps it was just the episodes that I watched, but the rifle being used in the episodes that I watched was a 7mmremmag, not a 6.5x284. Then again that may have changed with the most recent episodes. Looking at the BOTW site, their signature rifle package is available in 6.5x284, but it is also available in 7mmremmag, and 300winmag.

As for casting blame, the person specifically mentioned BOTW, but there are other very similar programs promoting the same ideals, he just didn't mention any of them in particular, so I didn't post them.

elk, you missed out on a lot of really good info by not bending John's ear at Huntfest. I talked with him for a couple hours and learned a ton, both about his philosophy and long range shooting. A few minute chat with him would likely put a lot of your preconceived notions to bed....or perhaps not.

I've heard the Aurora killer is emulating the joker from Batman.....I know there are loads of other comicbook movies out there but as he didn't mention those, I guess Batman is to blame?

[sns2]

At this point in the discussion I am kind of ticked off that no one at the range that day took the flipping time to ask the guy what recipe he uses for the pop cans he's gonna kill. Those buggers are hard to get tender! What's wrong with you people in Fort McMurray?

[Faststeel]

I believe the first episode I saw where they were promoting the Husk scope it was mounted on a 7mm mag and as I recall the folks shooting this combo felt at the time that this was the best cartridge for what they were trying to accomplish.
Now prior to the episodes of botw I had never heard of a Huskemaw scope?

Laying blame as you put is where a great many folks were introduced to the possibility of shooting a very long distance at big game animals with a great success rate. Plus there was a time when these folks were promoting a rifle pkg with scope that could make anyone a long range hunter. Seems to me the pkg was being sold in the $4grand range, or there abouts.
Now This is several years ago and perhaps their marketing target has changed. FS

[elkhunter11]

elk, you missed out on a lot of really good info by not bending John's ear at Huntfest. I talked with him for a couple hours and learned a ton, both about his philosophy and long range shooting. A few minute chat with him would likely put a lot of your preconceived notions to bed....or perhaps not.

It's not my interpretation of his philosophies that are the issue. I realize that his philosophy is based on a combination of equipment, training and experience. I am well aware of his shooting skills, and how they make it possible for him to shoot accurately at long range. I don't question him attempting the shots that he does.

The issue is that people like I encountered at the range, and people like Fasteel has posted about, are not following John's phlosophy. They seem to have the impression that once they have the correct equipment, they don't need the training or the practise.

Originally Posted by Faststeel

I believe the first episode I saw where they were promoting the Husk scope it was mounted on a 7mm mag and as I recall the folks shooting this combo felt at the time that this was the best cartridge for what they were trying to accomplish.
Now prior to the episodes of botw I had never heard of a Huskemaw scope?

Laying blame as you put is where a great many folks were introduced to the possibility of shooting a very long distance at big game animals with a great success rate. Plus there was a time when these folks were promoting a rifle pkg with scope that could make anyone a long range hunter. Seems to me the pkg was being sold in the $4grand range, or there abouts.
Now This is several years ago and perhaps their marketing target has changed. FS

Yes, it can be tough for people to keep up to ensure they know what they are criticizing

BOTW is basically Huskemaw so no surprise you hadn't heard of the scope before. I think they still promote a BOTW rifle package made by Cooper. Since they split with the folks at Gunwerks there have been a few equipment changes for sure. G7 is likely another one you should put on your radar...they are being used to shoot ranges that make the BOTW guys look like field goal kickers. I think their show is called Long Range Pursuit.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It's not my interpretation of his philosophies that are the issue. I realize that his philosophy is based on a combination of equipment, training and experience. I am well aware of his shooting skills, and how they make it possible for him to shoot accurately at long range. I don't question him attempting the shots that he does.

The issue is that people like I encountered at the range, and people like Fasteel has posted about, are not following John's phlosophy. They seem to have the impression that once they have the correct equipment, they don't need the training or the practise.

I agree that there are some people like that out there...where we diverge is where the blame is cast. Personally I'm big on people taking responsibility for their own actions but sadly, a great portion of society is looking for someone to blame and another law to fix it. Perhaps a disclaimer on the show like that found on the side of 5 gallon buckets that children could drown in them? At what point do we start holding people responsible for their own stupidity and quit looking for a scapegoat? You been following the news about the Aurora killing?

Edit:

I must admit that I reread what you wrote and I'm truly confused. You agree that people aren't following John's philosophy but somehow John/BOTW is to blame? Please tell me even you see the folly in that.