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  #271  
Old 01-31-2013, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
http://in.finance.yahoo.com/news/nra...171125862.html

Is the NRA preventing the facts from becoming public?
Hardly. http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats
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  #272  
Old 01-31-2013, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
And what a great program to get them when they're young. I'm all for teaching kids about firearms as my Dad did for me but at what point would you call it fanatical?

"Missouri state Senate is considering a bill that would require all first graders in the state to take a gun safety training course. Using a grant provided by the National Rifle Association, it would put a “National Rifle Association’s Eddie Eagle Gunsafe Program” instructor in every first grade classroom."
So once again the NRA is putting their money where their mouth is. If that state's senate likes the idea who are we to disagree? To quote marxist former Canadian justice minister allan rock, "If it saves just one life".
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  #273  
Old 01-31-2013, 06:17 AM
Buffalo Gill Buffalo Gill is offline
 
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And while albertans bicker and squabble about a FOREIGN countries gun laws, our government will be raising our taxes and slapping us with healthcare premiums for our supposedly free health care. Don't you guys think its time we stop giving 2 sh!ts about the USA and start paying attention to the current events closer to home.

Besides last time i checked us Canucks lost our right to automatic weapons an anything that looks or sounds or smells like one a long time Ago, probably while arguing with each other about something irelivant the states and there policy makers where up to.

Wake up people. Nuff' said

Gilles Richard
  #274  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:22 AM
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"New" guy (sure ) there is a thread about health care premiums and what's going on in Alberta.

If you don't like the discussion in this thread, you don't have to read it. Some of us DO - AND, we care about the state that Alberta is in. We can multi-task, so to speak

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  #275  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Buffalo Gill View Post

Besides last time i checked us Canucks lost our right to automatic weapons an anything that looks or sounds or smells like one a long time Ago,

Wake up people. Nuff' said

Gilles Richard
It is legal for a Canadian to own an automatic firearm. If you owned one before 1977 and have owned one continously since then, you are legal.

It's called being grandfathered.
  #276  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tactical Lever View Post
Jamaica is not a 3rd world country. 20% unemployment, or whatever it is, does not mean the whole country lives in squalor and starves. And if they were, does that justify killing each other?
http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/jamaica

Jamaica is a third world country.

http://thegrio.com/2012/08/06/jamaic...niversary-16x9


Like many Third World countries, Jamaica is plagued by poverty, unemployment, drug-fueled gang violence, and political corruption. The unemployment rate in Jamaica is over 12 percent. Employed Jamaicans earn an average minimum wage comparable to just over 50 American dollars a week. In 2005, Jamaica had the highest murder rate per capita in the world.

Jamaica is widely accepted under the definition of third world...definitely not of the first world category the US is part of.

But sure...keep comparing guns laws between Jamaica and the US if you like. You are just comparing apples to walnuts is all.
  #277  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by doetracks View Post
"New" guy (sure ) there is a thread about health care premiums and what's going on in Alberta.

If you don't like the discussion in this thread, you don't have to read it. Some of us DO - AND, we care about the state that Alberta is in. We can multi-task, so to speak

He is also entitled to his opinion so relax. Thankfully Alberta is not a State or we would be in the same mess as our neighbours to the south!
  #278  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:51 AM
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It is a shame then that they ignore a great study proving better background checks saves lives.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0725200047.htm

But the NRA does not care if a gun is bought for a crime or suicide...because they get a sale and the gun is likely destroyed so the manufacturer can make and sell another to the next unfortunate purchaser that should of been screened properly.
  #279  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
He is also entitled to his opinion so relax. Thankfully Alberta is not a State or we would be in the same mess as our neighbours to the south!
I didn't say Alberta was a "State". Relax

And incidentally, in regards to opinions, yes, everyone has one. That's why this thread is here. If a feller has something constructive to add, they are welcome to it. Belittling those that DO contribute (whether or not we agree) is unnecessary. Ergo, if you don't like the thread, what is the point of chastising those that contribute? There are plenty of other threads out there.

What is happening in the US *does* affect some of us here in Canada, so we care.

Continue.
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Last edited by doetracks; 01-31-2013 at 08:01 AM.
  #280  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Tactical Lever View Post
If there were none, people would make them. That would be silly to keep it at a range. That would pretty much guarantee... oh never mind. Pretty much defeats the purpose. And why so worried about the law abiding person?
That is the million dollar business of gun selling cop out. I won't stop making large capacity mags because the murderer of the school children would of just made one and did it anyways.

Biggest load of falsehoods you have spewed on here to date. There is a reason bad guys chose these tools...because they are easy to buy, easy to use and efficient to kill with.

Your premise is totally false because we have not seen a single home made one used to kill anyone in Canada... If some industrious person made it is because of the challenge and likely they enjoy tinkering. No criminals would go to those lengths to any significant degree compared to being able to simply buy it.

Good try but as a statement it is totally false. Removing them will make it harder for bad guys to kill with.

They can still be used at firing ranges should law abiding citizens wish to enjoy the bang bang.
  #281  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by doetracks View Post
I didn't say Alberta was a "State". Relax
doetracks, the U.S. violent crime rates have been falling while CCW laws have spread. Their homicide rate is now back to levels not seen since the '60s.

We might be considering what we can learn from the U.S. if there weren't so many liberal bigots in Canada.
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  #282  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocky7 View Post
doetracks, the U.S. violent crime rates have been falling while CCW laws have spread. Their homicide rate is now back to levels not seen since the '60s.

We might be considering what we can learn from the U.S. if there weren't so many liberal bigots in Canada.
Facts. Love it.
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  #283  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
The percentage of people that get assaulted out of the blue would be an interesting stat. I suspect not being in the wrong place at the wrong time is critical. Unless she walks with the gun drawn any could walk up and wrestle her down.

If a woman has two young kids and the husband travels and she lives in such a bad neighborhood that she needs ready access to a gun...firstly I would move. Safety comes first. Secondly that gun needs to be stored properly because accidental child deaths from guns are significant. So bad even the NRA reluctantly had to appear to help.

Fortunately there is no place in Calgary I would be terrified of and feel I needed a gun. In the stats there are places I would not go even with a gun.
Great to know you'd be able to move. Some people can't. Apparently you don't float at the lower end of the economic spectrum. You may be of better means than others. Telling someone to move out of Forest Lawn if they can't is the equivalent of the "If they do not have bread, let them eat cake" comment commonly misattributed to Marie Antoinette.

And as an addition to the Forest Lawn comment:

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/06/18...nd-sex-attacks

"Staff Sgt. Ryan Jepson said a sexual assault on a woman near 17 Ave. S.E. and Deerfoot Tr. Sunday is one of only a small handful of sex offences committed by a stranger to the victim.

Only 10 — roughly 4% — of the 243 sex assaults reported to police so far in 2012 were allegedly committed by strangers, said Jepson."

This happened last year, and it was apparently a stranger sex attack at night. Why was she in that area? Maybe a poor choice, but maybe a forced economic one. Walking back home in the 'Lawn from a downtown cleaning job perhaps? Totally speculation but either way, you, I and anyone else in this society has no right to tell her she can't have a Taser, OC spray or a firearm to protect herself.

She's pretty lucky to be in that 4%, totally worth risking I am sure! Perhaps you would like to blame this on the skirt she was wearing as well???

Maybe that isn't fair, but I hope you see where I am coming with this. I don't argue for the super tough guy "I wanna carry cause I wanna be an Urban Rambo" types. I argue for this for my wife, my sister my elderly parents etc.

A properly trained ( I am not arguing for just hand them out by the way, like everything else this should be regualted), vetted citizen who understands the respnosibilities involved (IE dont' shoot in crowds- -part of the training) I believe has the right (not legal right in Canada, but more of a moral right) to carry concealed to protect themselves. 100%. No exceptions.

I think you, your wife/husband, sisters brothers parents and friends all deserve this as well. I actually can't believe anyone would argue against it....
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Last edited by bigbadjoe108; 01-31-2013 at 08:10 AM. Reason: Missed a quote!!! Can't blame autocorrect this time!
  #284  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:14 AM
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Sensible thinking, joe Reality.
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  #285  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:29 AM
bigbadjoe108 bigbadjoe108 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by doetracks View Post
Sensible thinking, joe Reality.
Well I try. And don't get me wrong, if my wife goes out for a run or a early morning dog walk I tell her to leave the IPod at home and not pay attention to Facebook on the IPhone. Keep her head up and pay attention.

It's true that situational awareness and being able to avoid a bad situation is 99.9% of the solution, but sometimes people get forced to function in that 0.1% due to a sitatiuation being out of their control.

And, once again the 10 that the SSgt was talking about in the previous quote, for Calgary is literally a 1 in 100 000 chance of occurence ( 10 in 1000000). Not exactly a high occurence rate, but much higher than 0 I would prefer!!
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  #286  
Old 01-31-2013, 02:01 PM
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Default A very good article

Here's an excerpt. It's worth reading the entire article.


......
Many of us, even in Urban environments, had schools with a range in them.
Lane Technical High School had not only a range, but M-14 battle rifles for
it's ROTC Program, and the rifles were in working order. We marched in
parades and on the campus with real, working rifles in those days. Now they
are banned from there even in the ROTC program, and now we have school
shootings.

If you want to teach children how to responsibly handle dangerous weapons,
you will instill in them a respect for those tools, and you will lessen the
mystique of them. You will also begin to transfer the awesome responsibility
of adulthood to children as they mature into the ability to handle that
responsibility. But if you try to prevent drowning by banning water, rather
than teach them to swim, the results will continue to under whelm our sense
of decency and proportion...........


http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/hell...rol-debate.htm
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  #287  
Old 01-31-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Buffalo Gill View Post
And while albertans bicker and squabble about a FOREIGN countries gun laws, our government will be raising our taxes and slapping us with healthcare premiums for our supposedly free health care. Don't you guys think its time we stop giving 2 sh!ts about the USA and start paying attention to the current events closer to home.

Besides last time i checked us Canucks lost our right to automatic weapons an anything that looks or sounds or smells like one a long time Ago, probably while arguing with each other about something irelivant the states and there policy makers where up to.

Wake up people. Nuff' said

Gilles Richard
OH OH...guess us Canadians better get all those semi-auto look alikes outta this Country...PRONTO!!!!!!!
  #288  
Old 01-31-2013, 02:27 PM
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Angry Holy Sh*t...

You know what? I couldn't read all the way through this... I'm in a sh*tty mood and this is just pizzin' me off more...

I did skim through it and found nothing but garbage. At NO point did ANYONE cite legitimate studies or factual evidence (Langmann, the one exception by Rocky, Thanks). News articles? Seriously? Right... 'Cuz the people that write/report for any form of MSM have unbiased views. A lot of these "stats" that people are citing are skewed at best. They all report differently. Some places DO NOT report a murder/violent if it is unsolved (I wish I could remember where I found that little tid-bit).

I have a few notes that I'd like to mention that I didn't notice prior:

1. Calling it "Gun Crime" is retarded... It implies the gun committed the crime. C'mon, it's like saying "knife crime" or "fist crime".

2. Comparing murder-by-gun from country to country doesn't really depict the whole picture making it inaccurate, therefore invalid. In order make a valid statement, Violent Crime as a whole should be reviewed. Again, every country reports this differently. That being said, you must compare nations equivocally.

It looked to me like HunterDave doesn't like this guy, but I do. As far as I know, Mr. Lott has more credentials... Not to mention more factual evidence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excerpt from John Lott
The most recent violent crime data for England and Wales is available here and for the US here. One important thing to note first is that the rate that crimes are reported to police is much higher in the US than England and Wales, and that difference will make England and Wales look relatively better than they actually are. But still if one uses violent crimes reported to police, US in 2011 there were 1,203,564 and in England and Wales 821,957. The US doesn't differentiate Violent crime with and without injuries, but in England and Wales 368,647 violent crimes involve injuries and 453,310 do not. Given that the US has about 314 million people and England and Wales 56 million people (a ratio of 5.6 to 1), 368,647*5.6 = 2,064,423, or still about 72 percent greater than the number for the US. I have often pointed to the International Crime Victimization Survey as a better comparison because it deals with the different rates that crimes are reported and it tries to make sure that crimes are defined the same way across countries. As expected, that measure makes England and Wales look even worse compared to the US.

John Lott's Website

The UK (England and Wales) has a violent crime rate 72% than that of the US?!? How is it that a nation of 56 million citizens and a near TOTAL gun ban compared to another with 314 million, where guns are abundant and readily available, has such a staggering and frankly, disgustingly high violent crime rate?

Not only that, the UK has the toughest gun laws and is the most violent country in the EU. Huh?

3. I'm tired of this "assault rifle" Bullsh*t. Talk about flogging a dead horse here... AR-15, modelled after the M-16, functionally identical to a Ruger mini-14 or a Ruger 10/22 or any other semi-auto hunting/target/sporting rifle that exists to date.


4. "You don't need it". You don't need a lot of things. ATV's, snowmobiles, cars that exceed the speed limit or even a set of damn golf clubs. You don't need a diesel pickup. Or a collapsible fishing rod (as they are "easily concealable"). As a matter of fact, no more modern fishing rods. Back to fly fishing or spear fishing, the only REAL way to fish (harpoons for the larger ones). Your wife doesn't need to scrap book. You don't need skis or a snowboard. A camo compound bow for hunting? Nope!

It's a hobby for most and a lifestyle for others. Who are YOU to say what I can or can't have? I lifted my truck, no one person or the government has told me it's illegal or immoral (guess what, it's even black).

Why is it that guns are the only consumer product that is so heavily monitored and restricted? People will say "it's a matter of public safety". Well, if that's the case, vehicles of ALL makes and models should be treated the same as guns. Afterall, they kill more people than guns do... Wait... Oh, the PEOPLE are to blame? How it is that the person behind the wheel is responsible?

As per Stats Canada: Motor Vehicle deaths in Canada between 1979 and 2004 are ~99,583. By comparison, as per the RCMP: Firearms related deaths in Canada between 1970 and 1996 are ~37,399. Where is the public out cry for stiffer restrictions on motor vehicles? There is no where near the same concern for vehicles as there are for guns. What have they done about vehicles? SAFETY TRAINING! That's right! Driver's ED! Why is it that with vehicles we have to train and concentrate efforts for educating the person driving the vehicle? Then people go on to blame guns for gun-related crime/violence? Maybe if the government monitored and restricted vehicles more... I mean... "If it saves ONE life"...

Here is what I propose:

a) ALL Diesel pickups are restricted for towing ONLY as they are designed. In order for you to do so, you will require an ATT (Authorization To Tow). Your diesel will only be permitted to traverse designated AND approved routes.

b) ALL Diesel cars are now Prohibited (for no other reason than they are compact)

c) COMPACT cars are now Prohibited.

d) ALL Vehicles that can achieve higher rate of speed than 110KPH are Restricted to Approved Race Tracks. You will require a Diesel pickup, trailer and ATT to transport your Restricted Vehicle to and from an Approved Race Track. Transportation will be along the MOST DIRECT route possible.

e) Any Vehicle that can accelerate from 0-100KPH in 9 or less seconds are Restricted to Approved Drag Strips... Yada Yada... I'm sure you get my point...

5. "Paranoid", "Tinfoil Hat", call it whatever you want. Fact, "Gun-Grabbers" don't care what it is, it fires a projectile. They'll keep nipping at gun rights (privileges for some) piece by piece until they are all gone... Then what?

6. Also, it genuinely saddens me that no one can trust their fellow human being and feel that heavy government legislations are a necessity. Let me tell you More Restriction = Less Freedom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
Everyone is willing to give up just a little more freedom for the "FEELING", the "ILLUSION" of safety.
A few individuals who are sick, in every sense of the word, perform evil acts (face it, that's exactly what it is) on good people. All of a sudden due to the ONLY commonality between these people and people like me is an inanimate object, a tool. That alone puts me under the same microscope? In an instant someone in another country uses a tool that I also happen to own, as personal property, as an enthusiast with an appreciation for a sport that requires technique and skill, makes ME crazy or worse yet, a murderer? Where is the logic in that? YOU don't like them, doesn't mean they should be banned from society. I’m not a fan of Baseball, how many murders or assaults are committed with a bat? (Sorry, “assault bat”) Baseball pops up, I change the f***ing channel... Simple.

Helpful tip to you Keyboard Commandos: Logout, go to Google and put your Googlefu to the test. Pull out a calculator and do some math. Figure it out.

Here's a start:

Harvard Study: More guns do not mean more crime

Read it end to end.


**Disclaimer: I DO Respect everyone's opinion. HOWEVER, I do not respect opinions that are solely based on hearsay, what you've heard in the news or what you've read in "Letters to the Editor"**

skinny
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  #289  
Old 01-31-2013, 02:31 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Originally Posted by doetracks View Post
I didn't say Alberta was a "State". Relax

And incidentally, in regards to opinions, yes, everyone has one. That's why this thread is here. If a feller has something constructive to add, they are welcome to it. Belittling those that DO contribute (whether or not we agree) is unnecessary. Ergo, if you don't like the thread, what is the point of chastising those that contribute? There are plenty of other threads out there.

What is happening in the US *does* affect some of us here in Canada, so we care.

Continue.
Please explain what you are referring to when u state that US policies affect us here in Canada....I'm all ears.
I mostly just read ur comments of agreeing with someone.
I'd like to read what facts you have under ur belt?????
  #290  
Old 01-31-2013, 02:33 PM
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Facts. Love it.
Facts????
The facts are that the USA has highest crime rate in the world.
  #291  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Facts????
The facts are that the USA has highest crime rate in the world.
Show me.
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If guns kill people:
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  #292  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by skinnykid View Post
At NO point did ANYONE cite legitimate studies or factual evidence (Langmann, the one exception by Rocky, Thanks).
I find it ironic that you first complain that there are no legitimate studies or factual evidence posted on this thread and then you quote some of John Lott's stats. Are you fricken kidding me????

Check the thread about the NRA that I started. Lapierre looked like an idiot for quoting John Lott's stats in his opening address because they were totally out to lunch.
  #293  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:31 PM
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Please explain what you are referring to when u state that US policies affect us here in Canada....I'm all ears.
I mostly just read ur comments of agreeing with someone.
I'd like to read what facts you have under ur belt?????
Really? Read my post.

I said that "What is happening in the US *does* affect some of us here in Canada, so we care. " That was in regards to the "new" guy chastising us for talking about issues in the US.

I am married to an American. I lived for about 10 years in the States. WE give a crap what's going on there. I am Canadian, and I know enough to see some of the issues. I have LOTS of friends and family there. Regardless, a person doesn't have to have ties in order to share the sentiment.

Is that clear enough?
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Last edited by doetracks; 01-31-2013 at 03:41 PM.
  #294  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Facts????
The facts are that the USA has highest crime rate in the world.
Check it out for yourself

I am not repeating what's been posted here ad nauseum.
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Last edited by doetracks; 01-31-2013 at 03:43 PM.
  #295  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
I find it ironic that you first complain that there are no legitimate studies or factual evidence posted on this thread and then you quote some of John Lott's stats. Are you fricken kidding me????

Check the thread about the NRA that I started. Lapierre looked like an idiot for quoting John Lott's stats in his opening address because they were totally out to lunch.
Ok, that's fair. But the least you could do is show some examples. I looked some up and cited for my argument, your turn. I don't want to read news stories or threads. Not a lot of science in those.
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If guns kill people:
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  #296  
Old 01-31-2013, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by skinnykid View Post
Ok, that's fair. But the least you could do is show some examples. I looked some up and cited for my argument, your turn. I don't want to read news stories or threads. Not a lot of science in those.
skinny, you're a little late to the party. This debate has been going on since the Sandy Hook tragedy and there are countless threads on the forum with a ton of facts, stats and copious amounts of BS that would keep you reading for a week. I would suggest that you do a search and read through them and you can pick through the sh*t and shinola.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
skinny, you're a little late to the party. This debate has been going on since the Sandy Hook tragedy and there are countless threads on the forum with a ton of facts, stats and copious amounts of BS that would keep you reading for a week. I would suggest that you do a search and read through them and you can pick through the sh*t and shinola.
Oh, I'm not late. I have, however, been spending all the free time I have either at the range or in my reloading room. Ah theropy...
__________________
If guns kill people:
Then pencils misspell words,
Cars make people drive drunk,
And spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat.
  #298  
Old 01-31-2013, 05:33 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver View Post
Ok, put up or shut up, state your sources or never show your face again.
Hmmmm...dont remember showing my face on YOUR forum, haha.

Look it up for yourself bud.
I aint your research guinea pig.
If you care so much....research it?

And if you actually believe your lil tantrums affect me????
They don't!!!.....you mean nothing to me
  #299  
Old 01-31-2013, 06:20 PM
silver silver is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maidstone Sask
Posts: 2,793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Hmmmm...dont remember showing my face on YOUR forum, haha.

Look it up for yourself bud.
I aint your research guinea pig.
If you care so much....research it?

And if you actually believe your lil tantrums affect me????
They don't!!!.....you mean nothing to me
When you come out with a statement that the US has the highest crime rate in the world, and you do not care to produce any proof when challenged, I can only conclude that you are a fool, a bollshooter, a cad ,a poltroon, and remind me of smegma,,, don't start something you can't finish.
  #300  
Old 01-31-2013, 06:30 PM
hockey1099 hockey1099 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky7 View Post
doetracks, the U.S. violent crime rates have been falling while CCW laws have spread. Their homicide rate is now back to levels not seen since the '60s.

We might be considering what we can learn from the U.S. if there weren't so many liberal bigots in Canada.
U.S violent crime rates have been falling while gas prices have been soaring. Wont someone think of the the children and raises gas prices.

Yep same logic
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