Leader / Tippet Questions

millsboy79 · #1 08-10-2016, 08:59 AM

I am pretty new to fly fishing and am learning something new almost every time I head out. I have been having some troubles with knot strength and can't remember the last time I went out and didn't lose a fly ... or five.

Sometimes at the fly, sometimes at the tippet, and sometimes I am guessing I get a "wind knot" that I didn't know about.

At the fly I use a rapala or clinch knot depending on the fly (lubricated) for the tippet I use a blood knot also lubricated with saliva.

I think I have simply had some bad luck but it is going to get expensive very fast if I can't figure something out.

I am trying to get in the habit that every couple casts I run my fingers down the length of the leader to check for extra knots that I get simply from my inexperience.

SIDE NOTE: Last night while fishing I did see a knot that was pretty high up in the thicker side of the tapered leader. I am curious how much of the butt section can you lost before you need to put two sizes of tippet on or even a new tapered leader?

With the time I have been having I would probably replace the leader before I start tapering my own especially with the luck I have been having with my knots.

How important is fluorocarbon when fishing in rivers like the bow? Seems it would not take much movement in current to make almost any tippet next to invisible.

Look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Flieguy · #2 08-10-2016, 09:55 AM

tightening them enough? leaving too tiny a tag (hard to do if you tighten them enough)?

Try using a different line, I like P-line fluoroclear, it's awesome and not too expensive. Rio fluoroflex plus is also nice but costs an arm and a leg. There's also nothing wrong with straight up cheap monofilament except that it's not quite as thin

RavYak · #3 08-10-2016, 10:02 AM

What size tippet and leaders you using?

I have been using 2x leader and 3x tippet for almost everything now. I will drop down to 4x if trying to tie on a small fly that won't fit on 3x.

I started primarily using 4x but a guy breaks off too much imo. I don't get the guys that use really light stuff must really baby their fish and lose a lot of flies to bushes etc.

googan · #4 08-10-2016, 03:39 PM

what i tend to do after i tie on a fly is push the knot down right tight to the eye of the hook. if it holds i cut the tag end off if it doesn't i retie and swear my head off

as for tangles when casting try slowing your cast down and watch your cast from forward cast to back. watch what the line does infront and also behind you.

millsboy79 · #5 08-10-2016, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfry

what i tend to do after i tie on a fly is push the knot down right tight to the eye of the hook. if it holds i cut the tag end off if it doesn't i retie and swear my head off

as for tangles when casting try slowing your cast down and watch your cast from forward cast to back. watch what the line does infront and also behind you.

Assuming if you are using a Rapala knot you would do the same and just make sure it's tight to the loop.

And you're right I don't watch my back cast enough and am probably in too much of a hurry to get the line out there.

Also find some times I put too much gusto in the forward cast cause the line shoots and smashes at the end so it bounces back / sideways a little.

Dr.Shortington · #6 08-10-2016, 05:01 PM

I use blood knots and they have always been fine for me. You seem to be on the right track by making sure the line is wet before tightening.

Keep in mind that any line 3x or lighter will be fairly easy to break especially with your hands. Very rarely will I use 4x/5x etc. anymore, I just find that it's not really worth it. There are some great 2x or 3x lines which are quite thin.

Dr.Shortington · #7 08-10-2016, 05:03 PM

Also where are you buying your flies? I suggest Icky or a guy named Dave Anderson. He lives in the Milrise area. Charges $1 as well and has lots of stock!
Might help lessen the blow when you do snap them off!

rycoma · #8 08-10-2016, 05:12 PM

Its not the tippet or the knot. My guess is your casting is at fault. If you hear a whip crack kiss your fly good buy that whip crack is your fly going super sonic and I'm not kidding. So a little over 700 mph and change. Unles your using 2x forget it. If your getting "wind" knots it is also your casting. I can't remenber if its not letteing your leader straighten out and starting the forward cast to soon or if its the other way arround.

millsboy79 · #9 08-11-2016, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavYak

What size tippet and leaders you using?

I have been using 2x leader and 3x tippet for almost everything now. I will drop down to 4x if trying to tie on a small fly that won't fit on 3x.

I started primarily using 4x but a guy breaks off too much imo. I don't get the guys that use really light stuff must really baby their fish and lose a lot of flies to bushes etc.

Its a 3x Fluorocarbon (Dai-Riki) I got at canadian tire.

millsboy79 · #10 08-11-2016, 08:09 AM

I am curious about the "correct" procedure when replacing your tippet, I would assume the less about of blood knots the "better" but there are still a number of people who tie their own leaders so is there any real problem with simply extending your existing tippet instead of cutting back to your original leader?

I know you would not want two knots within a foot or so but I am not sure what the cut offs would be?

A-Baum · #11 08-11-2016, 08:23 AM

This is just my personal method, and it is slightly more expensive but I NEVER use tippet unless it's 1x and tied to a sinking leader for streamers or big nymphs, or the tippet is tied to a fly hook for a dropper. I buy 9' 4x leaders or 5x if it's a small clear stream and that's what I use. Once I use up too much of the tippet section and the leader gets short, I use a new leader. I don't mess around with tippet because I've had too many failures at that knot, and if the wind kicks up sometimes the knot(s) can catch the fly and screw up my cast.

Does it cost more? Sure. I get a 2 pack of leaders for $7-$8. If I fish from dawn to dusk sometimes I'll go through 2 leaders, so $8 for the day. Considering the gas, beer/food/license and other gear costs, it's pretty insignificant compared to the pain in the ass that I've had with tippets.

And don't even get me started on tying your own leader. Remember the rope climb in gym class with the knots every foot? That's what custom leaders remind me of and I absolutely refuse to deal with that.

googan · #12 08-11-2016, 10:41 AM

Let the rod do the work. your arm must be tired at the end of the day

robson3954 · #13 08-11-2016, 01:24 PM

Never had and real problems with improved clinch knots and double surgeons for tippet.... Once my casting improved lol.

I did come across a bad batch of tippet that was super fragile; left out in the sun or something. New spool and no problems.

millsboy79 · #14 08-11-2016, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robson3954

Never had and real problems with improved clinch knots and double surgeons for tippet.... Once my casting improved lol.

I did come across a bad batch of tippet that was super fragile; left out in the sun or something. New spool and no problems.

I am going to try the double surgeons knot next time, its looks like a pretty easy knot to do on the river.

tallieho · #15 08-11-2016, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millsboy79

Its a 3x Fluorocarbon (Dai-Riki) I got at canadian tire.

Thru trial & many errors on my part.I found that if i tied flouo.tippet ,to a mono leader it always broke there.Then i found,if i use Rio products.Use it for all,leader construction.No mixing suppliers.If your a lake guy,incorporate the use of a swivel for your tippet/flouro connection..

RavYak · #16 08-11-2016, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millsboy79

Its a 3x Fluorocarbon (Dai-Riki) I got at canadian tire.

3x you should not be breaking off easy. Test your spool of line maybe it is no good(sat on shelf too long or something maybe).

I just use a simple double surgeons knot for connecting leader to tippet and never had issues. Also use clinch knot on almost all my flies again no issues.

scel · #17 08-11-2016, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millsboy79

I am going to try the double surgeons knot next time, its looks like a pretty easy knot to do on the river.

Double or triple surgeons knots are quick and strong, but I find it somewhat wasteful and as the line test gets heavier, the knot profile gets bigger. As tippet size gets heavier, say 2x and bigger, I prefer using the 3(or 4)-turn double uni knot. I find the double uni knot easier to tie when splicing a long piece of tippet, like when making a 9' 3 piece taper leader.