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  #61  
Old 06-24-2018, 06:04 AM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by mattthegorby View Post
Flat shooting, ballistic coefficient, fps, blah, blah, blah - I just think the 6.5's have the most badass names of all the cartridges.
Gotta agree that’s why I’m partial to the thirty ought six, 30-06 or as some people call it turdie odd six b’y.
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  #62  
Old 06-24-2018, 07:34 AM
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Question Boringly accurate

Some may say
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  #63  
Old 06-24-2018, 09:11 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Some may say
Yes! Many seem to say that they get bored smashing rocks or gongs at 400-600 and want to play further to keep it interesting. Remarkable little cartridge.
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  #64  
Old 06-24-2018, 09:16 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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[QUOTE=roper1;3802827]
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...yard-speedgoat

The way I read this is a very, very borderline shot. 752 yds & he broke the spine? What's the dim-dot doing shooting a high neck shot at that distance? Or any distance? I hope the twit is BS'ing the distance or the shot placement, or he really should be shooting gongs........or an airsoft!
Does look like got some lung with the blood in the mouth but i agree. Would take a pretty special circumstance to pull that off with any cartridge at the very tail end of it's ability to kill well.

Somebody is bound to test it like here but seemed like himself and his rig were smashing really well at that range before they shot presented itself so about as ready as you're going to get for it.

The math is there to support, also why i'm a big fan of the more frangible bullets like the a-max which actually has a really good reputation as a hunting bullet, even more so at distance as the lower speeds they open up much better than delayed controlled expansion bullets.

Since the Grendel is slow to begin with it only makes sense to me to shoot the ballistic tips/a-max types imo. The replacement for the amax being the eld-m bullets from hornady...just different tip material.

I believe the speed goat situation is entirely possible as stated, right bullet and just enough impact velocity to do its work.

Most controlled expansion bullets want 1800+ fps at impact but looking around for the more frangible stuff you see lots of reports of them opening up great 14-1600 fps. This speed goat a-max scenario would be right in the middle of that at 1500 fps.
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  #65  
Old 06-24-2018, 09:53 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
No, nothing except maybe it can go into an AR action which means duddlybup here as a hunting rifle anyway
Cat
https://albertatacticalrifle.com/hik...ry_pathway-138

https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/Pr...Key-Mod-Black-

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american/

http://store.prophetriver.com/cz-6-5...able-magazine/

There's 26" barrel target version from cz also avail, have seen on u.s. sites.

Then the affordable Howa rifles and barreled actions, also get from Prophet River Firearms.

http://store.prophetriver.com/1500-mini-action/

https://www.legacysports.com/catalog...-action-rifle/

https://www.legacysports.com/catalog...ction-chassis/

mdt over in B.C. makes the LSS chassis for Howa Mini Actions so you can build your own pretty easy.

https://mdttac.ca/products/lss-chass...nt=43806457871

I'm building those Howa's on MDT LSS for the boys, using AR adjustable length of pull butt stocks like the magpul ctr will fit anyone anysize anytime. The CZ 527 American is for me though.

Say like 5000 round barrel life...what's not to love?

Ruger makes a cheap american in 6.5 grendel also but most seem to prefer the Howa's and Cz's.

Be nice to see other manufacturers building .223 length actions jump on the 6.5 grendel thing...sako/tikka would be nice additional options, maybe see some more extra short bolts. The cartridge certainly brings this new action length into the hunters realm.
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  #66  
Old 06-24-2018, 11:01 AM
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There are other options as good or better fir a bolt action especially a target rifle where action length is moot
Cat
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  #67  
Old 06-24-2018, 11:02 AM
mattthegorby mattthegorby is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
https://albertatacticalrifle.com/hik...ry_pathway-138

https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/Pr...Key-Mod-Black-

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american/

http://store.prophetriver.com/cz-6-5...able-magazine/

There's 26" barrel target version from cz also avail, have seen on u.s. sites.

Then the affordable Howa rifles and barreled actions, also get from Prophet River Firearms.

http://store.prophetriver.com/1500-mini-action/

https://www.legacysports.com/catalog...-action-rifle/

https://www.legacysports.com/catalog...ction-chassis/

mdt over in B.C. makes the LSS chassis for Howa Mini Actions so you can build your own pretty easy.

https://mdttac.ca/products/lss-chass...nt=43806457871

I'm building those Howa's on MDT LSS for the boys, using AR adjustable length of pull butt stocks like the magpul ctr will fit anyone anysize anytime. The CZ 527 American is for me though.

Say like 5000 round barrel life...what's not to love?

Ruger makes a cheap american in 6.5 grendel also but most seem to prefer the Howa's and Cz's.

Be nice to see other manufacturers building .223 length actions jump on the 6.5 grendel thing...sako/tikka would be nice additional options, maybe see some more extra short bolts. The cartridge certainly brings this new action length into the hunters realm.
I have a 452 Lux and eventually I would like to get a 527 Lux, that would be cool if 6.5 G was an option. If folks buy the 527 American in 6.5 G, maybe they will.
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  #68  
Old 06-24-2018, 07:01 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Good to see that each caliber getting time to spend on the Podium of Fame even if its a short stint.

The good old Musket had its day 540+ years ago, it will be Intresting to see what happens when the new Lazar Popcorn cartrage comes on the market.
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  #69  
Old 06-25-2018, 07:29 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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6.5 Popcorn lol

So just running the math on .243 with a 100 gr partition. Or anything from 90-100 gr. And considering quite a few members here have exclusively been hunting and killing everything without fail for so many years never questioning their cartridge choice....pretty sure that old sheep hunter that mentored me for awhile (had i wanna say about 8 rams on the wall) that's all he ever used happily.

When you look at that through more modern eyes now and see the s.d., velocity at impact, etc. And depending on your parameters you get a certain range of effectiveness...well the 6.5 Grendel matches those distances and does so with a higher s.d.

Velocity advantage to the .243 for a better pbr but it falls on it's face hard shortly after that. Whereas the higher b.c. of the Grendel just keeps on chuggin, and combined with the higher s.d. will do far better when pushed past what many would try.
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  #70  
Old 06-25-2018, 07:41 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Factory ammo comparison

Hornady 6.5 Grendel 123 gr vs Hornady 100 gr btsp whitetail special.

Muzzle velocity 2580 Grendel, 2960 for .243
Muzzle energy 1818 Grendel, 1945 for .243

If using 1000 ft/lbs minimum impact energy rule the Grendel hits that at 400 yards, the .243 at 375 yards.

If using say 1600 fps minimum impact velocity rule then the Grendel hits that at 625 yards and the .243 at 650 yards.

Grendel b.c. .506, s.d. .252
100gr .243 b.c. .405, s.d. .242

The Grendel burns 25-30 grains of powder, the .243 40-50 grains.

Typical barrel life Grendel 5000+, .243 win 1500-2900

Most people wouldn't think to compare these cartridges but when the math is done they compare really well, nearly identical. They are both great choices, one just a lot more efficient for the the powder it burns.

Pretty hard to ignore those numbers imo. And it's not like it's a new cartridge, just new to Alberta's fan base. It's been killing quite reliably for many years now.

So say you're shopping for a lighter hitter, for whatever reason, and considering a .243 as so many of us do, have, will. And you remove the headstamps, koolaid flavor of the month etc. and look at only the data and you see the above.....you're going to choose the .243 win??? If pbr is really important to you then sure, otherwise i'm not seeing where the .243 bests the Grendel?

Grab your popcorn and chew on that.

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 06-25-2018 at 07:49 AM.
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  #71  
Old 06-25-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
Factory ammo comparison

Hornady 6.5 Grendel 123 gr vs Hornady 100 gr btsp whitetail special.

Muzzle velocity 2580 Grendel, 2960 for .243
Muzzle energy 1818 Grendel, 1945 for .243

If using 1000 ft/lbs minimum impact energy rule the Grendel hits that at 400 yards, the .243 at 375 yards.

If using say 1600 fps minimum impact velocity rule then the Grendel hits that at 625 yards and the .243 at 650 yards.

Grendel b.c. .506, s.d. .252
100gr .243 b.c. .405, s.d. .242

The Grendel burns 25-30 grains of powder, the .243 40-50 grains.

Typical barrel life Grendel 5000+, .243 win 1500-2900

Most people wouldn't think to compare these cartridges but when the math is done they compare really well, nearly identical. They are both great choices, one just a lot more efficient for the the powder it burns.

Pretty hard to ignore those numbers imo. And it's not like it's a new cartridge, just new to Alberta's fan base. It's been killing quite reliably for many years now.

So say you're shopping for a lighter hitter, for whatever reason, and considering a .243 as so many of us do, have, will. And you remove the headstamps, koolaid flavor of the month etc. and look at only the data and you see the above.....you're going to choose the .243 win??? If pbr is really important to you then sure, otherwise i'm not seeing where the .243 bests the Grendel?

Grab your popcorn and chew on that.
You need to pick a better 6mm bullet.
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  #72  
Old 06-25-2018, 08:24 AM
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You need to pick a better 6mm bullet.
... or get a different slide rule.
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  #73  
Old 06-25-2018, 08:29 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
You need to pick a better 6mm bullet.
I did, i ran the same numbers from Hornady's Superformance 95 Grain launched at 3185 fps and 2140 ft/lbs me and it had the same 1000 ft/lbs and 1600 fps distances.

What's that old addage...launch it faster and it slows down faster? Launch it slower and it slows down slower. Seems to be true.

that superformance load is a 95 gr sst, b.c. .355, s.d. .230

seriously though, run the calculators and you will see the same surprise i did

i thought the superformance wouldn't be a fair comparison as a non-standard hot load, but turned out it didn't matter

sure a custom twist and running 105's and up will look much better against the Grendel
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  #74  
Old 06-25-2018, 08:50 AM
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I’ve run 105’s in factory barrels.
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  #75  
Old 06-25-2018, 09:21 AM
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big fan of the 105's, the 6mm creedmoor is going to do very well going forward, the grendel won't compete with that, just typical factory ammo's or partition loads from 'the day'

still think for hunting more than predators and paper/steel i will prefer over 120+ grains of lead going down range but wouldn't hesitate to hunt a lot of stuff with 6mm 105's, have seen results of 105 on whitetail buck over 500 yards, drt, from a dasher, nothing wrong with it at all
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  #76  
Old 06-25-2018, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
big fan of the 105's, the 6mm creedmoor is going to do very well going forward, the grendel won't compete with that, just typical factory ammo's or partition loads from 'the day'

still think for hunting more than predators and paper/steel i will prefer over 120+ grains of lead going down range but wouldn't hesitate to hunt a lot of stuff with 6mm 105's, have seen results of 105 on whitetail buck over 500 yards, drt, from a dasher, nothing wrong with it at all
It seems that all the minimalist chamberings are now good to go as 500-600 yd BG cartridges. That must be the new math at work.
It doesn't really matter how hard you want to push the envelope, it's still stationary. Keep up the good work.
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  #77  
Old 06-25-2018, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
It seems that all the minimalist chamberings are now good to go as 500-600 yd BG cartridges. That must be the new math at work.
It doesn't really matter how hard you want to push the envelope, it's still stationary. Keep up the good work.
Dead animals suck at math.
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  #78  
Old 06-25-2018, 10:07 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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lol

nobody is touting these for 3rd class game (moose/elk etc.) to those distances, however, 2nd class animals such as deer on down seem to be getting smashed no probs in those ranges Salavee...the math isn't supporting the paper, it's supporting the dead critters

whatever the .243 has been killing to whatever distances in the past....the Grendel does and will do going forward, and maybe even best the .243 in many situations

would i be ok with a sub 300 yard ideal situation shot on an elk or moose with a .243? probably, would i try further? probably not, would feel identical about the Grendel and with the higher b.c. s.d. and weight...probably feel a little better actually
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  #79  
Old 06-25-2018, 10:24 AM
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lol

nobody is touting these for 3rd class game (moose/elk etc.) to those distances, however, 2nd class animals such as deer on down seem to be getting smashed no probs in those ranges Salavee...the math isn't supporting the paper, it's supporting the dead critters

whatever the .243 has been killing to whatever distances in the past....the Grendel does and will do going forward, and maybe even best the .243 in many situations

would i be ok with a sub 300 yard ideal situation shot on an elk or moose with a .243? probably, would i try further? probably not, would feel identical about the Grendel and with the higher b.c. s.d. and weight...probably feel a little better actually
Considering the animal you intend to practice on, wouldn't it be just as simple to select a more appropriate cartridge ? Trying to prove what the smallest cartridge you can kill an animal with at any given distance seems rather pointless and the end game, whatever it is, is out of sight. What gives with this exercise ?
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:38 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Considering the animal you intend to practice on, wouldn't it be just as simple to select a more appropriate cartridge ? Trying to prove what the smallest cartridge you can kill an animal with at any given distance seems rather pointless and the end game, whatever it is, is out of sight. What gives with this exercise ?
more appropriate? interesting

i hold elk to a far tougher standard than moose in just about all ways you can...it's already been done, just showing the math why, i might be the first moose with a Grendel but maybe not, have seen some elk to 400 posted, i'm sure we'll be talking sub 200 yrd if that happens to be the gun i choose, have a really nice .270 that could use also, not worried about either choice

none of that matters, not selling something that isn't already true and proven, just educating it is all, as said many times, we seem to be in a bubble in our little nook here in Alberta
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  #81  
Old 06-25-2018, 01:24 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
more appropriate? interesting

i hold elk to a far tougher standard than moose in just about all ways you can...it's already been done, just showing the math why, i might be the first moose with a Grendel but maybe not, have seen some elk to 400 posted, i'm sure we'll be talking sub 200 yrd if that happens to be the gun i choose, have a really nice .270 that could use also, not worried about either choice

none of that matters, not selling something that isn't already true and proven, just educating it is all, as said many times, we seem to be in a bubble in our little nook here in Alberta
If Critters could talk, I'll bet my bottom dollar that there are quite a few that would say it was a bit lacking .. but those don't get posted. I would suggest our little Alberta bubble isn't as big as you suggest it is.
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  #82  
Old 06-25-2018, 01:46 PM
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If Critters could talk, I'll bet my bottom dollar that there are quite a few that would say it was a bit lacking .. but those don't get posted. I would suggest our little Alberta bubble isn't as big as you suggest it is.
Should we be using a 50 BMG for big game hunting? I shot a buck in the shoulder with my 300wsm and never did catch up to him, so the 300wsm is obviously a bit lacking.

I think you have been in your bubble for so long now that there's no hope of you understanding what goes on outside of your bubble.

Whoever taught you that big game animals have an invisible force field around them that can only be penetrated by headstamps should be fired.
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  #83  
Old 06-25-2018, 01:50 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Should we be using a 50 BMG for big game hunting? I shot a buck in the shoulder with my 300wsm and never did catch up to him, so the 300wsm is obviously a bit lacking.

I think you have been in your bubble for so long now that there's no hope of you understanding what goes on outside of your bubble.

Whoever taught you that big game animals have an invisible force field around them that can only be penetrated by headstamps should be fired.
Have a good day Kurt !
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  #84  
Old 06-25-2018, 02:05 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Have a good day Kurt !
For decades people all across North America have been killing big game animals with a 30-30, compare the ballistics of a 30-30 to a 6.5 Grendel, I did.

It's a wonder the 30-30 is even considered a big game cartridge...
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  #85  
Old 06-25-2018, 08:51 PM
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Should we be using a 50 BMG for big game hunting? I shot a buck in the shoulder with my 300wsm and never did catch up to him, so the 300wsm is obviously a bit lacking.

I think you have been in your bubble for so long now that there's no hope of you understanding what goes on outside of your bubble.

Whoever taught you that big game animals have an invisible force field around them that can only be penetrated by headstamps should be fired.
So you made a marginal shot with a 300 wsm on a deer and you never found it.. What do you suppose will happen with a marginal shot with a Grendel ?
Ethically do you think it’s right to rely on a cartridge that “may” perform under only ideal circumstances?
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  #86  
Old 06-25-2018, 09:25 PM
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Had this discussion with a vet the other day while we were shooting our 223’s. I asked him if a deer stood a chance against them at 500 yds. He laughed and said “they sure don’t stand a chance”.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:28 PM
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[QUOTE=Kurt505;3803280] I shot a buck in the shoulder with my 300wsm and never did catch up to him, so the 300wsm is obviously a bit lacking.

Appreciate the honesty, Kurt, it has happened to most of us if we've hunted enough. This will happen a lot more as so-called hunters/conservationists try to take game at longer & longer distances with smaller & smaller guns!
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  #88  
Old 06-25-2018, 09:30 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Had this discussion with a vet the other day while we were shooting our 223’s. I asked him if a deer stood a chance against them at 500 yds. He laughed and said “they sure don’t stand a chance”.

I was talking with a gunmaker the other day and asked him if my neighbors Cat was pregnant. He said he didn't know.
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  #89  
Old 06-25-2018, 09:33 PM
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I was talking with a gunmaker the other day and asked him if my neighbors Cat was pregnant. He said he didn't know.
You do realize a veterinarian is a dr of animal medicine don’t you? Some might consider that an expert in the field.
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  #90  
Old 06-25-2018, 09:35 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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I was talking with a gunmaker the other day and asked him if my neighbors Cat was pregnant. He said he didn't know.
Fml. This is hilarious.
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