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  #151  
Old 02-15-2012, 02:38 PM
BeeGuy BeeGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan Foss View Post
So by that logic, If I phone into the poilice that I just saw (for example) Horsetrader get shot in the chest by kokanee9, that information is just no more than "heresay" unless a police officer is the one to witness it...... Come on man.....
We are not talking about murder here.

Look up some case law regarding the reliability and credibility of 'eye witness testimony'.

We've put many innocent men in jail on the word of an unreliable witness.

Last edited by BeeGuy; 02-15-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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  #152  
Old 02-15-2012, 02:39 PM
Sledder1 Sledder1 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TJG View Post
After finding nothing, they followed them to his home and asked to look in his frezzer, saying that if he refused, he would be admitting guilt! Thats not right.
lol, that is not even close to being believable.
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  #153  
Old 02-15-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Foss View Post
if you have nothing to hide then what do you care if you let someone else do their job.
I shouldn't have to give up my rights to prove I am innocent. I want to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. That doesn't make me a criminal.
Unfortunately in this world, in order for the authorities to have the ability to catch illegal activities, law abiding citizens do have to surrender some of their rights as well.
Benjamin Franklin had this to say about surrendering freedoms for security; "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." Where does it end? Random home searches? Why not?? You've got nothing to hide right? Maybe just install a government camera on every fishing boat so they can check up on you easier? <- sarcasm
what else are can be done? pass a law that states, people obeying the law are not to be search and only those committing illegal activities are to be searched?
If a proper, legal investigation doesn't turn anything up, they shouldn't then resort to searching your personal belongings. That is unreasonable. You are more than welcome to allow it to happen to you and your family, but those of us who want to exercise our rights should not be vilified for it.
How do you think they are to separate the two. Would you also argue that you should not have to walk through a metal detector and have your bag scanned at the airport, just because you haven't done anything wrong? Criminals do not walk around with tatoos on their heads that say "I break laws". There for everyone unfortunately has to surrender SOME of their rights in order for the laws to be enforced, and the "world be made a better place"

The argument can ALWAYS be made that if we give up a little more freedom, we will be a little safer. Canada is quite a safe place right now with our current laws forbidding unreasonable search and seizure. Do we really want to give the government more and more ability to monitor and search us? I don't want to live in a police state.

I swear, reading some of the opinions in this thread really scare me and make me concerned about the people I meet on a daily basis. I can't imagine what it must be like to live in such paranoid fear of the law and invasion of your "personal rights" when you know you have done nothing wrong.

If reading about people discussing their rights when it comes to government searches scares you, then you might be the paranoid one. I don't live in paranoid fear, I just want to know my rights and be protected by them. I don't think it's a good idea to believe that the government always has our best interests in mind. It would be much easier for them to have full control of us, it's up to citizens to ensure that we keep our freedoms.

End rant


EDIT: I wanted to address the second part of your post and got caught up in my rant. So regarding people calling in because they dont like you..... That is against the law. Our rights to look after ourselves in society include the right to contact the authorities regarding suspected crimes. We are entrusted as civilians to use our own proper judgment when filing a complaint or concerns about illegal activities. This is key in order to reduce the number of "innocent bystanders" being searched. So the long of the short of it is, it is your civic duty, and the law is entrusting you only to report information that is as accurate AS POSSIBLE. sometimes people are wrong. They are human. But there is a difference between calling the cops because you witnessed someone catch and retain an illegal fish and someone just catching a fish. it is upto the civilian to determine if they have accurate enough information to call RAP.

I have no problem with people calling in poachers, all I am saying is that chapter 8 of the charter protects us from unreasonable search and seizure. It seems unreasonable to me to be searched based upon an anonymous phone call. That being said, I am still confused as to whether it is legal or not to be searched without reasonable suspicion. It seems that the fisheries act is written to give F&W the ability to search anytime there is fishing equipment present. Seems excessive. As someone else mentioned before, case law would be nice to see how a real life situation plays out.
!
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  #154  
Old 02-15-2012, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TJG View Post
Fish have been found under the hoods, under spare tires, interior compartments and under seats. My personal favourite is sauger fillets in a travel mug!
I must be the only one in this discussion that found this funny!!!

A buddy of mine was confronted by fish cops at the confluence below Dickson dam. They were in the honey hole catchin walleye like no ones buisness, when two fish officers asked for their lics and win cards. The officers said they got a call that my buddy and his son were stashing walleye in his backpack, where the lunch was and in his truck, where the cooler was. His son identified himself as an RCMP officer from Sask, but that made no differance to the fishcops. After finding nothing, they followed them to his home and asked to look in his frezzer, saying that if he refused, he would be admitting guilt! Thats not right.
It's not hard to see why people don't trust authority. They will stomp your freedom as much as you will allow, and sometimes more. If honest citizens don't stand up to it, it will only get worse.
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  #155  
Old 02-15-2012, 03:37 PM
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Canadiantdi- think about this thread as if you cared about our fisheries and place yourself in the boots of the authorities
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  #156  
Old 02-15-2012, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bush View Post
Canadiantdi- think about this thread as if you cared about our fisheries and place yourself in the boots of the authorities
I fully understand what you are saying, but I am absolutely not willing to give up my charter rights to help F&W do their job.
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  #157  
Old 02-15-2012, 03:49 PM
Bush Bush is offline
 
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Originally Posted by canadiantdi View Post
I fully understand what you are saying, but I am absolutely not willing to give up my charter rights to help F&W do their job.
You not giving up your rights to help anyone do there job but I'm pretty sure as long as your not hiding something you would alow it to happen because that's the ONLY way they can catch a smart poacher elsewhere on the lake
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  #158  
Old 02-15-2012, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Bush View Post
You not giving up your rights to help anyone do there job but I'm pretty sure as long as your not hiding something you would alow it to happen because that's the ONLY way they can catch a smart poacher elsewhere on the lake
If I have a right to not be searched, but I allow it anyways, what have I done then if I haven't given up the right?

Again, it's not my responsibility to give up my charter rights to make life easier on F&W. This is quite simple.

A smart poacher? What about smart murderers? They exist too. Should we allow the police to search us whenever they want for this reason? That is absurd!
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  #159  
Old 02-15-2012, 04:10 PM
Bush Bush is offline
 
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I don't know the answer that well work for you I'm just trying to stick up for the fish
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  #160  
Old 02-15-2012, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bush View Post
I don't know the answer that well work for you I'm just trying to stick up for the fish
I hear ya. Conserving Canadas natural resources are definitely important, and it is important to have a good balance between our rights and the fishies rights.
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  #161  
Old 02-15-2012, 05:28 PM
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I wonder what the phone call to the CO was?

hey I see a guy hiding fish. or were they extremely detailed. that's kinda the question....

I am assuming it was more than a "uhhh i think i saw a poacher" conversation but who knows
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  #162  
Old 02-15-2012, 05:40 PM
dragon dragon is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bigdad013 View Post
I find it funny that people still think a purse is sacred territory..

F&W only doing there job, maybe could have approached it better with some good questions first, ask the kid questions, they don't lie, they will tell you everything, what they are catching how many etc...with great pride....
do you have kids? asking my kids questions as part of an investigation runs me the wrong way.

I would also question the legality of conducting a search or making arrests on information provided by a child? I don't know for sure.
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  #163  
Old 02-15-2012, 09:39 PM
Sneeze Sneeze is offline
 
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Quote:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety
Mr. Ben Franklin was a smart guy.
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  #164  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:23 AM
Bigdad013 Bigdad013 is offline
 
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I think there has to be more responsibility put on the reporter, with consequences to their claims. I would think if you are reporting someone with nothing to back it up, that reporter should be charged with leading officials into a false investigation and having someone innocent to become under arrest. Having a tip line where you can do it without giving your name or anything, gives them free access to put someone in a bad situation when not needed. If someone got ****ed at you at a boat launch, or maybe came to close to them fishing etc, `I'll get him, RAP speed dial'. Just to easy for jerks or misinformed people to do this.

Don't get me wrong, if you are breaking the law, poaching, whatever, you have made that choice, and you should be caught.
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  #165  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:28 AM
Bigdad013 Bigdad013 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by dragon View Post
do you have kids? asking my kids questions as part of an investigation runs me the wrong way.

I would also question the legality of conducting a search or making arrests on information provided by a child? I don't know for sure.
I do have kids and have been stopped while fishing. He asked how the fishing was, and my son(7) couldn't wait to brag about the fish he caught. Now if I was poaching, that would have been game over. Just a simple question by the CO, and got lots of info.
I think it to is a good learning experience for the kids as well and how to deal with officers and not to lie etc...
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  #166  
Old 02-17-2012, 01:45 PM
horsetrader horsetrader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Foss View Post
So by that logic, If I phone into the poilice that I just saw (for example) Horsetrader get shot in the chest by kokanee9, that information is just no more than "heresay" unless a police officer is the one to witness it...... Come on man.....
Man how come i'm always the one getting killed. ........lol
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  #167  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:20 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Ah, you still got six or seven lives left anyways.lol
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  #168  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:39 PM
horsetrader horsetrader is offline
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
Ah, you still got six or seven lives left anyways.lol
Think i'm down to 5.lol ..........Hey dose that mean your calling me a *****?



Oh that word don't work......... _ussy...
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  #169  
Old 02-17-2012, 06:32 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Would you believe a cool catlol
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  #170  
Old 02-17-2012, 08:20 PM
horsetrader horsetrader is offline
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
Would you believe a cool catlol
Fair enough LOLOLOLOL..
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