Catch and Eat

[chad66]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

That is talking about things before I was born. Around 1930. Shortly after Louise died believe.

Dad moved to Keg River about that time and reported the same sort of thing.
Cool reading it in Franks own words.

I don't know about Kakisa but I'm sure i would have been the same.

Of interest, it seemed to me the big decline in the Peace River started when they built the Bennett Dam.

I guess it depends on one's prospective what a generous limit is. I wouldn't call this years limits generous. 3, 3, 10, doesn not sound great to me.
It was 5, 10,10 a few years ago. And the Grayling limit is 0 even though no one has been targeting them fo over 50 years that I know of.
Even so Grayling are closed to angling throughout NB3.

Clearly something is very wrong and it's not anglers that are the cause.

The Peace River system gets a fraction the fishing pressure that the Bow, the Red Deer and the North Saskatchiwin get and yet out fish stocks are way lower. Our rivers are closed for seven months of the year, the Bow is only closed for two months, the Red Deer is closed for five months and the North Saskatchwin is closed for five months. This is for the lower sections which harbor the same species as the Peace River.

I see one big differance between the southren rivers and the Peace River.

There are three big pulp mills on the Peace system and none I know of on the southern rivers. Whether that has anything to do with it I don't know.

I concur the Bennett Dam being a factor. I also agree that oil and gas in the headwaters along with pulp mills being detrimental to fish stocks and that there are less fish in the river system now compared to long ago. How many fewer fish??? I have no idea. In the 80's there were only a few locals who fished the popular spots around here like the mouth of the Boyer River, Caribou River, or wabasca rivers and the limit was 5 walleye then like you mentioned.

Nowadays the boat launch is very busy. Saturday morning I thought I would sneak out and catch my breakfast I was at the dock before 7. I was the second boat there and two others launched after me while I waited 10 minutes for my fishing partner to show up. We caught our limit of walleye and I imagine everyone else caught fish too. There are a lot more people fishing up north here than ever before.

I saw a small barge about two weeks ago Heading to carcajou from the ferry landing. There were at minimum 12 children and 4 adults; each carried a fishing rod.

Back in the 60's and 70's as you know, there were many more people who lived, travelled and relied on the River. Many of them also kept dogs. Legal and illegal netting and trapping of fish was common on the River system at that time and tons of fish were caught and used every year and yet the River never seem to run out of fish. Nowadays we need to do things differently in order to ensure healthy fish stocks. Maybe it is as simple as removing one dam and shutting down three pulp mills?
Chad

[goldscud]

Its interesting that people will travel across the globe, spending thousands of dollars for the chance to catch a steelhead....that they would never dream of killing...and it seems the people like it, share their passion with their kids, donate money for conservation of stocks. Who could of imagined that there is more to fishing than eating the critter.
Please feel free to insert any other high prized game fish (bonefish/tarpon/trevally/big ocean predators).
Fish are not an unlimited resource, and human population growth and habitat interference does not seem to be stopping any time soon. Perhaps we could be better stewards of the resources that we have left.
Catch and release seems like it could be a good tool where stocks are under pressure.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by goldscud

Its interesting that people will travel across the globe, spending thousands of dollars for the chance to catch a steelhead....that they would never dream of killing...and it seems the people like it, share their passion with their kids, donate money for conservation of stocks. Who could of imagined that there is more to fishing than eating the critter.
Please feel free to insert any other high prized game fish (bonefish/tarpon/trevally/big ocean predators).
Fish are not an unlimited resource, and human population growth and habitat interference does not seem to be stopping any time soon. Perhaps we could be better stewards of the resources that we have left.
Catch and release seems like it could be a good tool where stocks are under pressure.

In some parts of the world people have been fishing for over 3,000 years and there are still fish in those places.

There is no natural cause that would make fish a limited resource, only man made causes. Like dams with no fish ladders, Dams that alter the river flow to the point it hurts fish spawning or survival rates.
Pollution, silt intrusion due to construction and industrial development.
The list goes on and on.

[Kim473]

I still think that closeing all or some lakes would help the fishery 10 fold. Or make them all C&R for a year or two every once in a while.
Let mother nature do her thing. She knows best.

10,000 fish laying 1000 eggs each with a survival of 1/2 would increase our fishery 10 fold in one year.
Just an estamite of how many fish taken out of the lakes in one year. You do the math over 5 years.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Kim473

I still think that closeing all or some lakes would help the fishery 10 fold. Or make them all C&R for a year or two every once in a while.
Let mother nature do her thing. She knows best.

10,000 fish laying 1000 eggs each with a survival of 1/2 would increase our fishery 10 fold in one year.
Just an estamite of how many fish taken out of the lakes in one year. You do the math over 5 years.

Definitely reducing harvest would lead to higher populations of fish and better recoveries for lakes/watersheds that may be suffering from over harvest.

Problem is a survival rate of 1/2 as you mentioned isn't even close - that can't achieve that ratio even in a controlled laboratory. In the wild I would be surprised and astonished even if it's over 1%. (In the case of fish reaching maturity).

But the idea has some merits in specific cases in specific watersheds for sure.

I guess my point was - "naturally healing" lakes would take way longer.

[cube]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

Maybe Alberta just has wimpy fish.

Seems you can catch and release Bass all day long, keep them in live wells and in bags of water for hours on end.
Then seemingly release them back into the water where they get caught again and again and again.

Seems to work that way with tournaments

Is there something about that species that makes them more
"Survivable"?

YES! The large mouth you see in those shows are warm water fish. They like water temps in the 70's and 80's (degrees F)

Our fish do not do well here in warm waters and a number of them will in fact die in your live well during the warm water period. Hence walleye tournaments here are now restricted to cold water periods.

[livinstone]

isnt our right as outdoors men

[goldscud]

What about when there are more fisherman than fish for this "right" you think you have? Do other "outdoorsman" have the "right" to drive their ATVs down the streambed on the Livingstone (they are doing it)? 20 years ago the streams could handle the angling pressure with a rotating system of closures, today there are hundreds more fisherman on the streams. If we all took a limit, how many summers would it take to get almost all the fish?

[clamlinguine]

Originally Posted by livinstone

isnt our right as outdoors men

OMG. Another outdoorsmen who thinks enjoying the outdoors and tormenting fish go hand in hand. You can enjoy wonderful walks around streams and rivers throughout the province holding nothing other than a walking stick. Maybe you will run into a fisherman and you can enjoy watching them go about their business. If you wont eat a fish you shouldn't be fishing. Deal with it.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Kim473

I still think that closeing all or some lakes would help the fishery 10 fold. Or make them all C&R for a year or two every once in a while.
Let mother nature do her thing. She knows best.

10,000 fish laying 1000 eggs each with a survival of 1/2 would increase our fishery 10 fold in one year.
Just an estamite of how many fish taken out of the lakes in one year. You do the math over 5 years.

It would, if fishing were the main contributor to a decline but if fishing is not the cause as is the case with Grayling in the Notikewin river system then obviously it will have no effect. Which is exactly what I am seeing in this case.

I also know of a lake that has a declining fish population and almost no fishing pressure. This time the decline is due to an overpopulation cause by a poorly though out dam to improve Water fowl habitat.

The dam blocked migrating fish which then moved further upstream into a much smaller lake then the one that was dammed.

The end result was a drastic drop in the fish population in the big lake and a subsequent drop in fish in the main river in the system plus no significant increase in the Duck population.

It decisions like that which do the most damage to wildlife populations.

Another example is Chronic Wasting disease which was introduced to this province by captive Elk herds.

The use of DDT is yet another.

The wolf threat to Woodland Caribou herds is yet another.

Our Deer herds were managed to increase hunting opportunity for human hunter. This and the opening up for agriculture of forest land resulted in a significant increase in Deer herds in woodland areas which in turn resulted in a greatly increased Wolf populations which now threaten Woodland Caribou with extinction.

In every case cited it was not fishermen or hunters that caused the problem, it was industrial activity and government mismanagement that cause the problems.

Catch and release may well turn out to be one such decision. Only time will tell, if it is monitored properly, which it seldom is.

[clamlinguine]

Originally Posted by goldscud

What about when there are more fisherman than fish for this "right" you think you have? Do other "outdoorsman" have the "right" to drive their ATVs down the streambed on the Livingstone (they are doing it)? 20 years ago the streams could handle the angling pressure with a rotating system of closures, today there are hundreds more fisherman on the streams. If we all took a limit, how many summers would it take to get almost all the fish?

The streams I fish have never been better. More and bigger fish. I never see anyone fishing anymore. I'm serious. Even the ATV people are just roaring around trying to find a new way to get stuck.

But I'm unhappy because my favourite Athabow stream, which is teeming with fish like never before, (and I'm talking 20+ years)has been declared catch and release. Now I cant fish it anymore.

I tried the catch and release on it on the first day of the first year, but had to watch my buddy toss a 15" beauty back in dead. Done.

So this year I got curious about what the South Ram, my old favorite, was like. After testing it out, I would have definitely said it needed to be reopened to fishing. However, there was a bunch of C&Rs just below the road, striking poses in their fancy designer get ups, catching fish, and really just generally feeling good about themselves. Maybe this shouldn't be taken away from them.