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  #61  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
STATS/FACTS for in 2009/2010 http://www.srd.alberta.ca/Newsroom/M...rt-2009-10.pdf

We had a F&W budget of $60.5 MM.
273,220 angler licences were sold
3.2 million trout were stocked in 259 different water bodies
52 million walleye stocked in Lac la Biche
100,705 MM in license revenue

I was interested in finding out what just the Fish portion of the budget is...but I could not find it.
I have not been able to find that breakdown. Provincial funding to Alberta fisheries also includes some of the money transferred to the ACA.

The future funding of Fish and Wildlife in Alberta does not look "Rosey". SRD is budgeting for a 10% DESCREASE in it's budget through 2013.

http://www.finance.alberta.ca/public...source-dev.pdf
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  #62  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Anarchists love to remove rules. Fact is without rules rampant abuse would destroy what you want. Fisheries management has to be a changing game. Think about it. The playing field is constantly changing and evolving. We have fish stocks that are running low...fish like pike, walleye, grayling, cutthroat trout and sturgeon to name a few have had their stocks reach scary lows. Others like mountain whitefish and maybe even perch will be next on the list. We have an increasing number of anglers that challenge the system by putting ever increasing pressure on the stocks. The increasing anglers and taxing the waters nearest to large cities causing enhanced depletion problems.

All these changes in the playing field necessitate thinking differently when managing the few dollars available with the people that want to catch fish. The old saying that a bad day of fishing is better than a good day of work probably came from someone trying to lighten the fact...it is just getting that much harder to find any fish to catch.

So...to me that says we must look to outside the box for ideas. The last one was the "quality" fishery proposal at Bullshead that that strongly fought and opposed by many individuals...only to have been implemented any ways. The changes scared many...but now probably 99% of those that were opposed are not proponents. I suspect there would be a 10 fold increase in protests if they tried to put Bullshead back to the way it was before.

You are a bit short sighted IMHO by commenting on my small point of fish wastage and then figure education would fix an over harvest problem in Alberta. People that want to kill fish for the freeze invariably max their limit every time. If the limits are too high or the fish are limited in numbers then the fish leave. Simple mathematics of supply and demand.

You talk about education being different than implementing a quality fishery regulation...that argument has no merit as there is no additional cost to tax payers. The stocking stays the same as before but the fish are not harvested the day they are stocked. They are allowed to grow bigger. While they are growing bigger they get caught over and over again by the young and old alike. Then once they reach the target size...harvest can occur but at a sustainable rate. The biggest problem in fisheries management is provide high enough catch rates...fish caught per unit hour...to justify from F&W's point of view the expense of stocking...and from the anglers point of view the effort to try and catch them.

If you want to qualify this whole debate it comes down to few simple points.


1. Do you want to catch fish when you go fishing before it is fished out? If you say yes...then a quality fishery is the only one that maximizes this.

2. Do you want to harvest fish during the whole fishing season? Then the quality fishery is the only one that provides this.

3. Do you want to catch sporting sized fish? Then the quality fishery is the only one that provides this.


Time does not need to prove this as Bullshead already has.

Cheers

Sun




STATS/FACTS for in 2009/2010 http://www.srd.alberta.ca/Newsroom/M...rt-2009-10.pdf

We had a F&W budget of $60.5 MM.
273,220 angler licences were sold
3.2 million trout were stocked in 259 different water bodies
52 million walleye stocked in Lac la Biche
100,705 MM in license revenue

I was interested in finding out what just the Fish portion of the budget is...but I could not find it.
who is saying anything about removing any rules?? maybe you dont understand where i am comming from....instead of making more rules that limit most people and some people ignore, we should look at the bigger picture and not just one one lake or area (is this really the next step in making alberta a better place to fish). you say these new changes in regulations wont cost anything?? who will enforce these new changes?? those poor people at fish and wildlife are already understaffed and cant enforce the rules we already have properly.so if a new rule that wont be enforced is your major concern in alberta then i think your being a little far sighted (imho).I am not saying i dont want better quality of fish in alberta but i like the spots where i take my small children and its easy to catch a bunch of small dumb fish and i equally like the spots where i can head out and have a chance at a large one.If you asked my daughter if she would rather catch a 20lb pike or a 1lb walley she would pick a walley everytime (she thinks they look cooler). so proof kids dont care about size, so if this is for them i still think the money is better spent elsewhere.
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  #63  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tosh View Post
who is saying anything about removing any rules?? maybe you dont understand where i am comming from....instead of making more rules that limit most people and some people ignore, we should look at the bigger picture and not just one one lake or area (is this really the next step in making alberta a better place to fish). you say these new changes in regulations wont cost anything?? who will enforce these new changes?? those poor people at fish and wildlife are already understaffed and cant enforce the rules we already have properly.so if a new rule that wont be enforced is your major concern in alberta then i think your being a little far sighted (imho).I am not saying i dont want better quality of fish in alberta but i like the spots where i take my small children and its easy to catch a bunch of small dumb fish and i equally like the spots where i can head out and have a chance at a large one.If you asked my daughter if she would rather catch a 20lb pike or a 1lb walley she would pick a walley everytime (she thinks they look cooler). so proof kids dont care about size, so if this is for them i still think the money is better spent elsewhere.
I would have to go out on a limb...maybe someone else who is a F&W officer will attest to my thinking but...if there is already fishing activity taking place before and there will be fishing activity taking place after then therefore the net effect is an officer enforcing rules regardless of what they are and how many. One quick scan probably tells them if someone is fishing, using barbed hooks, has over their limit, has no fishing license...it will take no net time to also spot if the fish is under limit size. Therefore I don't believe this will cause any increased enforcement requirement over and above what is already in place. However I agree enforcement is currently lacking but a new regulation that is required to improve fishing for 99% of the public should still be implemented because it is the right thing to do as proved at Bullshead.

I also humbly don't believe your global comment that "most people and some people ignore" the current rules. I have fished for 35 years and I can attest that most people do follow the rules. Some don't and given the enforcement manpower concerns...it means the Report a Poacher is very important. So if you are seeing this that common place where you go you must take responsibility yourself and phone that number...otherwise IMHO...the poaching problem is also your fault for turning your back to the problem.

Your argument about wanting your kids to catch dumb fish and not larger fish still means you are in favor of the "quality" fishery. Simply put and I believe mentioned many times before...unless you take your kids to say Mt Lorette pond within the first few days of stocking...they will not catch any dumb trout because they have already been harvested. With a higher length limit size on a stocked lake...those dumb fish remain longer so your daughter has a chance to catch one. Plus I have fished Bullshead...and there are loads of dumb 12 - 20 inch trout to catch...and plenty over 20 inches.

Also my daughter and young son has caught loads of 10 - 14 inch rainbows. They bored quickly. Then they started catching 20 - 24 inch rainbows...and could not stop fishing. So there is proof...in the long run the kids want challenge and excitement reeling in a torpedo...not reeling in a small wet recently pellet fed sock.

Last edited by Sundancefisher; 12-27-2010 at 11:01 AM.
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  #64  
Old 12-27-2010, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I would have to go out on a limb...maybe someone else who is a F&W officer will attest to my thinking but...if there is already fishing activity taking place before and there will be fishing activity taking place after then the net effect is an officer enforcing rules regardless of what they are and how many. One quick scan probably tells them if someone is fishing, using barbed hooks, has over their limit, has no fishing license...it will take no net time to also spot if the fish is under limit. Therefore I don't believe this will cause any increased enforcement requires than is already in place. However I agree enforcement is currently lacking but a new regulation that is required to improve fishing for 99% of the public should still be implemented because it is the right thing to do as proved at Bullshead.

I also humbly don't believe your global comment that "most people and some people ignore". I have fished for 35 years and I can attest that most people do follow the rules. Some don't and given the enforcement manpower concerns...it means the Report a Poacher is very important. So if you are seeing this that common place where you go you must take responsibility yourself and phone that number...otherwise IMHO...the poaching problem is also your fault for turning your bad to the problem.

Your argument about wanting your kids to catch dumb fish and not larger fish still means you are in favor of the "quality" fishery. Simply put and I believe mentioned many times before...unless you take your kids to say Mt Lorette pond within the first few days of stocking...they will not catch any dumb trout because they have already been harvested. With a higher length limit size on a stocked lake...those dumb fish remain longer so your daughter has a chance to catch one. Plus I have fished Bullshead...and there are loads of dumb 12 - 20 inch trout to catch...and plenty over 20 inches.

Also my daughter and young son has caught loads of 10 - 14 inch rainbows. They bored quickly. Then they started catching 20 - 24 inch rainbows...and could not stop fishing. So there is proof...in the long run the kids want challenge and excitement reeling in a torpedo...not reeling in a small wet sock.

i am apologize i dont know what i am talking about.... if your kids want bigger but fewer fish then they should get them (my kids can go somewhere else). and poaching is my fault cause i try to teach people but i aint gonna follow him to his car get his plate number drive to get cell reception and call in the middle of my day cause they cant afford to hire enough people. and there are lots of good quality places to fish in this province and if you cant find any then i guess its your problem. leave family places alone.... lmfao
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  #65  
Old 12-27-2010, 11:24 AM
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i am apologize i dont know what i am talking about.... if your kids want bigger but fewer fish then they should get them (my kids can go somewhere else). and poaching is my fault cause i try to teach people but i aint gonna follow him to his car get his plate number drive to get cell reception and call in the middle of my day cause they cant afford to hire enough people. and there are lots of good quality places to fish in this province and if you cant find any then i guess its your problem. leave family places alone.... lmfao
Maybe the confusion lies with your assumption that the quality fishing regulations mean fewer trout to catch. That is not true. You actually catch loads more fish...and not all are huge...many are still in the 12 to 19.9 inch range. Harvest occurs after 20 inches of which the meals is tons more than the equivalent tiny stockers most seems to be eating. If you are concerned about losing meat for the freezer...please don't be. Evidence and facts show that you will actually increase the amount of fish weight you get to harvest.

As for poaching...record the activity in a journal (location, time of day, illegal activity, person descriptions etc.) ...if you can sneak a photo of them or record vehicle information even better. Then send or phone the information to F&W via the Report a Poacher number or direct conversation with an officer. Failure to do any of this...means they never know it is happening. You can complain about it all you want...and maybe an F&W Officer on line can comment...but we all know their is not a lot of them...we all know the Province is huge...all I am saying is tell them where the problem spots are and I know they WILL do something about it.

They have uniformed guys visit and they will also send in non uniformed officers in on a sting. So by all means...DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. IMHO. One thing that really gets my goat...and I apologize in advance cause you triggered it is people that complain about a problem...use it for an excuse for ignoring responsibility and never do anything about it. We must all take responsibility and be proactive in protection our fishing resources...which includes helping with enforcement and supporting good regulations. Apparently you fish in "family places" and see loads of poaching activity. Maybe together we can all fix it and I would love to help. Please post in details the locations and descriptions of the problems. They are not secret stocked lakes so there is no concern telling us but together as a forum population we can help stop that behavior so there is more fish for your kids to have fun catching.

I get a sense from your language in the post that you are trying to encourage better fishing behavior through leading by example and I commend you for that. I really value our debate here...I can tell you are a passionate fisherman and we more like you that care to participate in debate.

Cheers

Sun

Last edited by Sundancefisher; 12-27-2010 at 11:29 AM.
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  #66  
Old 12-27-2010, 11:58 AM
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race ahead to year 2013

We the leg humpers of stelfox have after extensive studies have discovered the killing of only 20inch plus fish has completely negated any spawning. therefore without any notice we will implement one of two new regulations.
1- flyfish only/ catch and release
2- allow someone to dump a pail of perch in the lake so there is something to catch.

Last edited by chubbdarter; 12-27-2010 at 12:08 PM.
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  #67  
Old 12-27-2010, 12:00 PM
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So I guess my question to all the ppl that seem to be concerned with kids catching fish is would a statement like "we need to put that one back sweetie, its still a baby" make your child go balistic because they can't keep it? Do you plant a garden and let your kids start pulling the goods as soon as some green pops out of the ground? Or do you tell them to wait until they are ready to be picked? Its the same logic, let the fish grow so you can harvest a decent sized fish to eat. Children are not going to be upset about putting a fish back on their own, the adult is the one that will say its bad and stupid.

I see no problem with what some ppl are trying to do to create a better quality fishery(read more fish). Without these ppl being around we would have squat to fish because there are some ppl out there that believe they have to keep everything they catch(yes I have seen it happen before). Steps like this make sure that you at least have the chance to catch something. Without regs like this we would eventually be casting into a swimming pool. And if you don't think it can happen google Nile Perch and see what no regs does for a fishery.

Congrats to those stepping up, I know well what its like sticking your neck out for the majority.
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  #68  
Old 12-27-2010, 12:03 PM
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where are these fish to spawn in the upper lake the bilogust jim stilfox toke use years ago before the bulls were stocked that there is no place for them to spawn.
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  #69  
Old 12-27-2010, 01:00 PM
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So I guess my question to all the ppl that seem to be concerned with kids catching fish is would a statement like "we need to put that one back sweetie, its still a baby" make your child go balistic because they can't keep it? Do you plant a garden and let your kids start pulling the goods as soon as some green pops out of the ground? Or do you tell them to wait until they are ready to be picked? Its the same logic, let the fish grow so you can harvest a decent sized fish to eat. Children are not going to be upset about putting a fish back on their own, the adult is the one that will say its bad and stupid.

I see no problem with what some ppl are trying to do to create a better quality fishery(read more fish). Without these ppl being around we would have squat to fish because there are some ppl out there that believe they have to keep everything they catch(yes I have seen it happen before). Steps like this make sure that you at least have the chance to catch something. Without regs like this we would eventually be casting into a swimming pool. And if you don't think it can happen google Nile Perch and see what no regs does for a fishery.

Congrats to those stepping up, I know well what its like sticking your neck out for the majority.
people are not saying they dont want a better quality fishery, nor is anyone saying that you should keep everything you catch. what i am concerned about is that is this the right thing to do? who are we willing to hurt?(families), and if this will even work. what is the time frame for the reward of these changes? is this really the next step for our fisheries? cause i know of a few places that could probably use some help out too.(why does k lakes take priority) and if nobody is supposed to ask then why put it up on a forum at all? i am not going to support something without all the facts and info..who did the research and if its being done the right way.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:07 PM
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Chubdarter, there is presently no protection for spawner sized rainbows. I don't see why the regulation change would cause them to decrease at a rate any faster than today.

fish99, you are right about lack of spawning habitat of the Upper lake. There is a plan in the works to create a spawning area for the Cutthroats at one of the creek mouths in the Upper lake. This would help to decrease the stocking rate/cost in the long run.

Tosh, the only negative I can see from your point of view is that a child could not kill a fish from Kan lakes under 50cm. But, with the regulation change, there should be a lot more small fish available to catch. I would think the entertainment value of catching lots of fish (some under 50cm and some over) would excite most kids. I guess you could ask the child if they wanted to kill some fish or not...then decide what stocked pond to go to.

Fish and Wildlife has a lot of requests to provide some more quality trout lakes in southern Alberta. There is a list of qualifications that a lake needs to have in order for it to be considered for a regulation change. Kan lakes meet a lot of those qualifications. With a limited number of lakes in Alberta that could be used for trout, Fish and Wildlife is screening lake ideas to try and meet a growing demand for higher quality lakes.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:16 PM
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Will the fish run short of food and be stunted like elbow lake or the walleye in pigeon lake from over stocking
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  #72  
Old 12-27-2010, 03:24 PM
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I doubt the spawning success in the Upper lake would ever be like the Brookies in Elbow lake. In addition, the Upper lake is a huge body of water in comparison to Elbow lake. If at some time in the future, the growth rates in the Upper lake look like they are decreasing radically, the stocking rate can be decreased to accommodate it, or the harvest rate can be increased to lower the number of mouths to feed in the lake.
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  #73  
Old 12-27-2010, 03:31 PM
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sorry my mistake. i get from this proposal meat fisherman will have no choice but to bonk larger potential spawn stock
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  #74  
Old 12-27-2010, 04:29 PM
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sorry my mistake. i get from this proposal meat fisherman will have no choice but to bonk larger potential spawn stock
You always have a choice......
Fishing is a recreational activity,not a run to the grocery store.
If all you are after is a meal when fishing then it would far cheaper for you in end to head to the local Safeway.
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  #75  
Old 12-27-2010, 04:47 PM
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The fact of this post is this, two lakes with changed size restrictions, two lakes which Im sure most people on this forum dont frequent more than 3-5 times a year and Id be amazed if they do that much. I fish Lower K almost exclusively in the winter?? Why you ask??

Because of this.... Quality Fishing!


If your telling me that these proposed changes could open up the chances of me catching Rainbows or Cutts this size on what could be a half frequent basis at two lakes within 90 mins of my house. Good, wait actually thats GREAT. Alberta has enough put & take lakes that changes to these 2 should not effect anyone in some earth changing manner. If you don't like the proposed changes then there are plenty of other options within the same driving distance from your home.

I understand that some people don't like change, hell I don't like it. I remember when Lower K switched to a Bait Ban and when Alberta protected Bull Trout and I vowed I would never fish it again and that they were robbing me of a fishing experience well I can now tell you that without those changes my current favorite place to fish would not exist. Before you jump all over the change itself think of the positive outcome that may come from said changes and if your doubting how implemented restrictions will benefit you then take a day and head off to a place like Bullhead and hook into a 50cm+ Rainbow remember how great it was and think of the possibility of having more places to experience that.
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  #76  
Old 12-27-2010, 05:49 PM
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The fact of this post is this, two lakes with changed size restrictions, two lakes which Im sure most people on this forum dont frequent more than 3-5 times a year and Id be amazed if they do that much. I fish Lower K almost exclusively in the winter?? Why you ask??

Because of this.... Quality Fishing!


If your telling me that these proposed changes could open up the chances of me catching Rainbows or Cutts this size on what could be a half frequent basis at two lakes within 90 mins of my house. Good, wait actually thats GREAT. Alberta has enough put & take lakes that changes to these 2 should not effect anyone in some earth changing manner. If you don't like the proposed changes then there are plenty of other options within the same driving distance from your home.

I understand that some people don't like change, hell I don't like it. I remember when Lower K switched to a Bait Ban and when Alberta protected Bull Trout and I vowed I would never fish it again and that they were robbing me of a fishing experience well I can now tell you that without those changes my current favorite place to fish would not exist. Before you jump all over the change itself think of the positive outcome that may come from said changes and if your doubting how implemented restrictions will benefit you then take a day and head off to a place like Bullhead and hook into a 50cm+ Rainbow remember how great it was and think of the possibility of having more places to experience that.
Completely off topic, But I was told it is not safe at any time to ice fish Lower K. Apparently they randomly let water out with no warnings causing a huge gap between the ice and water, some times Ice-gap-ice-water.

Have you seen anything like that?

That is a sweet fish btw.
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  #77  
Old 12-27-2010, 06:08 PM
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thats a cute little bull trout
congrats
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  #78  
Old 12-27-2010, 06:34 PM
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people are not saying they dont want a better quality fishery, nor is anyone saying that you should keep everything you catch. what i am concerned about is that is this the right thing to do? who are we willing to hurt?(families), and if this will even work. what is the time frame for the reward of these changes? is this really the next step for our fisheries? cause i know of a few places that could probably use some help out too.(why does k lakes take priority) and if nobody is supposed to ask then why put it up on a forum at all? i am not going to support something without all the facts and info..who did the research and if its being done the right way.
Tosh...the facts have been posted.

Fact...Catch rates from Kananaskis Lakes for instance. It shows 94% of all trout stocked get harvested in the year they are stocked. That is at 12 inches. That means instant depletion of the resource upon initial stocking.

Fact...it will work...the size classes in the lake now show great growth

Fact...the exact same regulation for Bullshead Lake was a massive success. All negative opinions were shot down by the successful outcome of this first Quality Fishery at Bullshead.

Fact...there is nothing...no proof...no examples nothing that has been said to show there is any harm to families. To me that is purely an inflammatory comment without merit. Not even sure where your logic is on that. I know the rhetoric keeps jumping back to wanting to catch fish...but again... the facts show the implementation of a quality fishery will improve this versus leaving it the same mess it is currently in. Nobody likes fishing towards the middle to the end of the season cause most trout were already caught.

Fact...this is actually a cost effective method to let mother nature grow trout while keeping tons of trout available to be caught. Upon mother nature (versus tax payer supported hatcheries feeding trout) growing 20 inch trout...these significantly larger fish will provide superior table fare to anyone wishing to harvest one.

Fact...there is no cost increase to regulate. It is just a regulation...nothing more...nothing less. It will be managed just like catch limits, size limits, bait restrictions etc.

Fact...one nice 20 + inch rainbow is significantly larger in weight to 3 - 12 inch stocked rainbows.

Fact...Alberta Fisheries biologists are involved and they are the educated and experienced ones that will affirm this makes sense prior to implementation. Nothing we demand will make it happen. We are not a strong enough nor vocal enough political power block for any politician to care.

Fact...the reason why this is happening for Kananaskis Lakes is for the same simple reason it happened at Bullshead. Some very hard working fishermen like yourselves saw a place to make a change for the better and have started to work hard to try and make the change happen. Your interest in other areas is admirable. I would strongly suggest YOU take the initiative and try and gather support and interest to do something about it. I would suggest talking first to other fishermen to see what the level of support is to ensure it is a common sense and well thought out idea...then approach F&W and ask for feedback and suggestions. Then start doing the hard work. Many people don't realize how much volunteer work and mental and physical effort it is to try and make a difference. These "proactive" folks should be commended!

Cheers

Sun
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:36 PM
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Completely off topic, But I was told it is not safe at any time to ice fish Lower K. Apparently they randomly let water out with no warnings causing a huge gap between the ice and water, some times Ice-gap-ice-water.

Have you seen anything like that?

That is a sweet fish btw.
The ice has only been an issue one time for us there, when they drop the water level and the shore line ice drops and breaks sometimes the water will rise through the cracks but you can see when its not going to be safe on the ice. Only time I had any issue was last year in mid March when we got a pretty warm spell and the shore around the south side opened up and we couldn't get on but the opposite end of the lake was still perfectly safe. As got a "gap" between the ice and the water never ever seen anything like that there or anywhere.


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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
thats a cute little bull trout
congrats
Thanks but which one???







and before ANYONE jumps on me, all those fish were released in a very timely manner and any blood you see is from their mouths, I have never had anything but a mouth hook from any of the fish there.
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
race ahead to year 2013

We the leg humpers of stelfox have after extensive studies have discovered the killing of only 20inch plus fish has completely negated any spawning. therefore without any notice we will implement one of two new regulations.
1- flyfish only/ catch and release
2- allow someone to dump a pail of perch in the lake so there is something to catch.
Thanks chubdarter.

I can now guess who you are and what your angle is based upon your character as seen in the disparaging remarks of what is probably the most caring and hard working biologist in the Province.

I can tell based upon this post that you neither care about the facts nor wish to discuss pros versus cons. Your ambiguous attempts to cause others to go off the deep end from silly posts of yours will not work as trolling is quickly becoming a boring past time to respond to.

I have yet to see any actual thought put into your remarks and I am sorry to have assumed otherwise.

Clearly since you feel the argument is lost as you are incapable of providing value to the conversation you must attempt to ruin it like a child through insults etc.

Therefore I will use your own language of sorts. I will no longer respond to your posts as they are not worthy of any fair and honest debating.

Good luck

Sun
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  #81  
Old 12-27-2010, 07:47 PM
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chubbdarter chubbdarter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Logan View Post
The ice has only been an issue one time for us there, when they drop the water level and the shore line ice drops and breaks sometimes the water will rise through the cracks but you can see when its not going to be safe on the ice. Only time I had any issue was last year in mid March when we got a pretty warm spell and the shore around the south side opened up and we couldn't get on but the opposite end of the lake was still perfectly safe. As got a "gap" between the ice and the water never ever seen anything like that there or anywhere.




Thanks but which one???







and before ANYONE jumps on me, all those fish were released in a very timely manner and any blood you see is from their mouths, I have never had anything but a mouth hook from any of the fish there.

all beautiful fish....congrats again
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:10 PM
canadagrown canadagrown is offline
 
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all beautiful fish....congrats again
What an idiot
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  #83  
Old 12-27-2010, 08:17 PM
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chubbdarter chubbdarter is offline
 
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[QUOTE=canadagrown;777637]What an idiot[/QUOTE

fish on!!!!!!!!!!!!
thank you CG
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  #84  
Old 12-27-2010, 08:25 PM
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Will the fish run short of food and be stunted like elbow lake or the walleye in pigeon lake from over stocking
That is an excellent question. In fact Bullshead Lake has learned that stocking rates as expected plays into growth rates. They will have to monitor this and stock the rates appropriately in order to maximize growth versus catch rates. They have some data on growth rates for sure already and will utilize it in their management decisions.

Like any science...they adjust procedures according available data. They have been stocking these Kananaskis lakes for years in the past and again recently.

Again...excellent question as this is a primary factor in selecting stocking densities.

Cheers

Sun
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:32 PM
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Completely off topic, But I was told it is not safe at any time to ice fish Lower K. Apparently they randomly let water out with no warnings causing a huge gap between the ice and water, some times Ice-gap-ice-water.

Have you seen anything like that?

That is a sweet fish btw.
yes it is off topic...but safety is more important. Reservoirs that fluctuate in water height during the winter should never ever be driven on. Air pockets form near shore as the ice drops. Currents can play havoc on ice thickness especially near inflows and outflows.

I broke through once at Chain Lakes walking up the shore... Someone in a quad, snowmobile or truck would of been seriously hurt.

Additionally...increased ice cracks form that can be fairly wide depending upon the time of year...speed at which the water is dropping, wind, air temperature etc.

Be very cautious...carry a throw rope...walk apart. Drill holes carefully... Test, test, test the ice if you are unsure. If Lake Sundance in Calgary can have 10-14 inches of ice last weekend...yet someone falls through still in one localized spot...any lake will have the same chance. Springs can also well up in mountain lakes.
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:36 PM
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Tosh...the facts have been posted.

Fact...Catch rates from Kananaskis Lakes for instance. It shows 94% of all trout stocked get harvested in the year they are stocked. That is at 12 inches. That means instant depletion of the resource upon initial stocking.

Fact...it will work...the size classes in the lake now show great growth

Fact...the exact same regulation for Bullshead Lake was a massive success. All negative opinions were shot down by the successful outcome of this first Quality Fishery at Bullshead.

Fact...there is nothing...no proof...no examples nothing that has been said to show there is any harm to families. To me that is purely an inflammatory comment without merit. Not even sure where your logic is on that. I know the rhetoric keeps jumping back to wanting to catch fish...but again... the facts show the implementation of a quality fishery will improve this versus leaving it the same mess it is currently in. Nobody likes fishing towards the middle to the end of the season cause most trout were already caught.

Fact...this is actually a cost effective method to let mother nature grow trout while keeping tons of trout available to be caught. Upon mother nature (versus tax payer supported hatcheries feeding trout) growing 20 inch trout...these significantly larger fish will provide superior table fare to anyone wishing to harvest one.

Fact...there is no cost increase to regulate. It is just a regulation...nothing more...nothing less. It will be managed just like catch limits, size limits, bait restrictions etc.

Fact...one nice 20 + inch rainbow is significantly larger in weight to 3 - 12 inch stocked rainbows.

Fact...Alberta Fisheries biologists are involved and they are the educated and experienced ones that will affirm this makes sense prior to implementation. Nothing we demand will make it happen. We are not a strong enough nor vocal enough political power block for any politician to care.

Fact...the reason why this is happening for Kananaskis Lakes is for the same simple reason it happened at Bullshead. Some very hard working fishermen like yourselves saw a place to make a change for the better and have started to work hard to try and make the change happen. Your interest in other areas is admirable. I would strongly suggest YOU take the initiative and try and gather support and interest to do something about it. I would suggest talking first to other fishermen to see what the level of support is to ensure it is a common sense and well thought out idea...then approach F&W and ask for feedback and suggestions. Then start doing the hard work. Many people don't realize how much volunteer work and mental and physical effort it is to try and make a difference. These "proactive" folks should be commended!

Cheers

Sun
This is a very good post. signed.
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:37 PM
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What an idiot
where did that mod button go..........
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  #88  
Old 12-27-2010, 08:52 PM
FOTW FOTW is offline
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
That is an excellent question. In fact Bullshead Lake has learned that stocking rates as expected plays into growth rates. They will have to monitor this and stock the rates appropriately in order to maximize growth versus catch rates. They have some data on growth rates for sure already and will utilize it in their management decisions.

Like any science...they adjust procedures according available data. They have been stocking these Kananaskis lakes for years in the past and again recently.

Again...excellent question as this is a primary factor in selecting stocking densities.

Cheers

Sun
Thank you. After seeing those Bull trout, I may have to drive up there in February and try my luck. sign0068
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:32 PM
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Bump... We can still use more signatures everyone...please pass it along.

Sun
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  #90  
Old 12-28-2010, 11:21 PM
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Bump... We can still use more signatures everyone...please pass it along.

Sun
Probably going to sign but still have some interest in a response to the question of water level fluctuation affecting the productivity of the littoral zone. How much of a limiting factor to the overall potential of the fishery is there or will there be based on this situation? Surely it would have a tremendous influence on the total carrying capacity of a trophy sized population of fish.

Also to sidetrack a little more from the OP, has anyone discussed the possibity of stocking Bulls in Elbow to whittle down the brookie population a little while offering another opportunity at a quality Bull trout fishery in an easily accessible & super scenic location?
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