crossbow season?

[209x50]

LOL, That press release is from 3 years ago and concerned a one year sponsorship with Excalibur. The best thing that came out of the sponsorship was it allowed me to bow hunt again and inflamed my old passion.

[209x50]

So Brent if we got rid of the archery season all together we would have more tags and opportunity, right? You can't have it both ways Brent and I still see you worrying about losing something if crossbows are included in archery season. You just don't like sharing do you? Maybe we should get rid of the archery season and then we can all share the general season, what would be wrong with that?

[J Biggs]

Originally Posted by 209x50

So Brent if we got rid of the archery season all together we would have more tags and opportunity, right? You can't have it both ways Brent and I still see you worrying about losing something if crossbows are included in archery season. You just don't like sharing do you? Maybe we should get rid of the archery season and then we can all share the general season, what would be wrong with that?

yup looks like 209x50 has the problem with sharing

calling end of the early season i would call that a problem with sharing

[6mmhunter]

Originally Posted by J Biggs

yup looks like 209x50 has the problem with sharing

calling end of the early season i would call that a problem with sharing

Looks to me like 209X50 is trying for the same opportunities for everyone. Sounds like sharing to me.

[conservationist]

Originally Posted by russ

How many of people have shoulder injuries and won't reduce their draw weight or go to a physiotherapist? The exercises required for shoulder fitness aren't that onerous and the equipment isn't that expensive. It's piece of blue theraband and 5 simple exercises. I know this because I do them, I had a noticeable improvement in 3 weeks. My motivation is that it's exercise or no archery.

I can't understand why anyone would rather live with a bad shoulder and not do anything about it. Not being able to lift over my shoulder for instance, not being able to carry sheet goods, having little strength in my arm to do simple tasks. Those are all bad things and I chose to take the time to address them. To me, trying to take the easy way out and not exercising is silly and impacts my overall quality of life.

Exercise and therapy are certainly great, but for some folks, the crossbow is the best tool for them to ethicaly bow hunt with for whatever reason. Would it not be better to be inclusive and have more bowhunters? The world is not going to end when crossbows are allowed in archery season in Alberta as in other juridictions. More bow hunters and more draws probably; some reduced opportunity in rifle season if more harvest moves to archery season, but all very manageable.

[tthomas]

209 Wrote...."I remember the crying, whining and doom sayers wailing in the streets when compound bows came along and the fight it required to get them included in archery season because enlightened people didn't believe that they were archery tackle. Can you imagine such narrow minded people? The world didn't end then nor in any other province or state where the crossbow is allowed in archery and it won;t here."

Well that is a pretty much a bald faced lie but 209 you are trying a little hard to come across as if you were "around". You might have been around, not sure how old you are, but you were not in the know. Either not close to what was going on or haven't done much reading to be in the know or understand what was going on. When "compound bows came along" there was only one tag to be used in the bowzones, for any species. Very quickly there were more compound shooters than traditional shooters and many of those intial bowhunters who were involved with government to develop the bowhunter rules and the changes and the seasons we now enjoy.

I guess 209, you either have a bad memory or stretch the truth to try and make a point.

As ones mind goes and they bs about the old days they also loose the ability to do math. When bowhunting started in Alberta they were less than 1% of the total hunters. Now they are around 10% and so more tags are being allocated to those seasons. If they grow in number then the general seasons will lose more of their allocations. As crossbow hunters grow and the muzzleloaders grow if they were able to get their own season they would be allocated their representative number of tags and these should come from some bowhunting seasons but the majority from the general rifle seasons.

I would hope government would give these 10 - 20,000 (or whatever the number might be) new crossbow hunters the chance to hunt in draw areas the opportunity to be allocated 10 - 20% of the total tags. If the majority of thsse people were a migration from gun hunters those tags could come from those seasons. If most of the new crossbow hunters are old people who had to stop huntiing with a bow and young people who can't pull a bow then of course the total number of hunters would increase and then those ABA types would only be 8% of the total hunter numbers and they should only get 8% of the tags as opposed to the 10% that they apparently get.

209 and those pushing for crossbows would be hailed as the modern geniuses for growing crossbow hunting, hunting opportunity and the number of hunters. But doing the math they would be taking opportunity away from those general rifle seasons. I don't think bowhunters are selfish to try to stop crossbows or any other weapon from taking away their hunting opportunities. If they have 10% of the numbers they should deserve that 10% of the harvest.

209...you seem like a passionate person who is aging and losing the ability to do math and now can't pull a vertical bow and should enjoy hunting with other weapons. As a champion for a cause like crossbows I hope you the best as you grow the number of hunters. You may be able to get a special crossbow season and that could even increase bowhunting opportunities. The regular gun hunters wouldn't mind because if much of the migration comes from their ranks then it would make sense that those tags be reallocated.

Have you suggested you idea to AFGA. Although your math and use of the truth is a little off I don't know what oppostition there should be.

I can see how trying to talk bowhunters into pushing for crossbows to be included in their season and reducing their opportunity would raise their ire.

[conservationist]

Originally Posted by
I can see how trying to talk bowhunters into pushing for crossbows to be included in [B

their season[/B] and reducing their opportunity would raise their ire.

emphasis added

The approach that it's "their" season is problematic for those of us who can't participate with a vertical bow. And no need for "them" to "push" for inclusion -just open minds and stop demonizing crossbows and the people who want to be included in the opportunity to bowhunt using the best tool available to them. More bowhunters of whatever orientation should be a good thing. We all understand that overall harvest has to be managed and draws for all seasons might need to be ajusted. Seems that it would be best for us all to work together rarher than forming yet another lobby group so we can fight with each other.

[tthomas]

Conservationalist......sorry but I guess I should not have assumed that the bowhunters would think that its "their" season as opposed to someone else. Was just thinking that a bowhunting only season would be a season for bowhunters and that they would look at it as "theirs". I see your point in that you are looking at the bowhunting pre season and the bowhunting zones as "everyones" season and thus wanting to include yourself and use a crossbow.

Wonder what the rifle folks are going to say when 209 leads the charge into "their" season.

I agree with working together but the point is that its an archery season and for crossbow hunters wanting to come in and take away opportunity from bowhunters is clearly going to meet resistance. If crossbow hunters think they might be 20 - 30% of the total number of hunters then they should push for their representative percentage of opportunity. 209 can do the math and figure out where that will come from and whose opportunities will be reduced.

As it stands now, one has the opportunity to hunt with a cross bow in any of the general seasons. Isn't that enough? Bowhunters are more than 10% of the total hunting population and they have less than "their" fair share of those tags that are on draw. Don't see how that is being greedy or not wanting to share.

Sorry for the poor choice of words, I understand that its not anyone's season or owned by bowhunters. Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes folks get a little protecive when others are trying to take away something that they think is "theirs"

[6mmhunter]

Bowhunters are more than 10% of the total hunting population and they have less than "their" fair share of those tags that are on draw. Don't see how that is being greedy or not wanting to share.

How do you figure they receive less than their fair share? When applying for every draw with the exception of antelope everyone has an equal opportunity. In the antelope draw (using 2008 stats) between trophy and non-trophy antelope for rifle 1369 applicants were drawn, while 290 archery antelope were drawn. This equates to bowhunters receiving 21% of the allocated licenses. Sounds like more than their fair share to me. If you are wondering I am a bowhunter and have been for 18 years but can't see any reason why any species that requires active management by the SRD isn't completely on the draw system to ensure proper management and controlled harvest.

[J Biggs]

Originally Posted by 6mmhunter

Bowhunters are more than 10% of the total hunting population and they have less than "their" fair share of those tags that are on draw. Don't see how that is being greedy or not wanting to share.

How do you figure they receive less than their fair share? When applying for every draw with the exception of antelope everyone has an equal opportunity. In the antelope draw (using 2008 stats) between trophy and non-trophy antelope for rifle 1369 applicants were drawn, while 290 archery antelope were drawn. This equates to bowhunters receiving 21% of the allocated licenses. Sounds like more than their fair share to me. If you are wondering I am a bowhunter and have been for 18 years but can't see any reason why any species that requires active management by the SRD isn't completely on the draw system to ensure proper management and controlled harvest.

alecated lisenses are based on harvest

yup this is why there are more tags in the bow antilope season

[J Biggs]

reading the conversatonalists posts what are you gunna do when your to old to cock the xbow? i have shot and drawn a xbow and if you have a problem with a 40lb bow you will have a broblem with a 150lbxbow yes even with a kocking devise

what about to old to hike and walk around but you still want to hunt in the early season?

dont see how the xbow in the early season is going to solve any of yer problems due to moblity or not being able to draw a bow back

[J Biggs]

oops just read my post and conversationalist didnt wnt to make it like i was funnin at ya

just seriusly asking the question

it would be horrible not able to draw a bow cause of age

thing is xbows are heavyer than a bow and 150lb is tough yes even with a devise to draw it

so i ask how this will help

hope to come across better this time

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by zonker892

UglyElk I said nothing about not letting disabled people hunt with a crossbow, I simply ment that they should not be allowed to be used in archery season beacause of the advantage. Should rifles be allowed in archery season? of course not. And for the folks that think you can shoot an elk at 175 yard with a bow should get their facts straight, a bullet will travel 5 miles, can you kill an elk at five miles? doubt it. I think that was a sad way to debate something on the forum uglyelk, by calling me out. Talk about sticking together PFFFT!

Disabled? Well I do have some medical issues, and I can’t hold the draw weight but I don’t consider myself disabled or less a man than those that can. I just see myself as permanently injured and have made adjustments to get the job done. One of those adjustments is a cross bow permit.

Personally I don’t see a cross bow as an advantage, just the opposite actually. If I’m facing a charging bear I figure I could get a 2nd shot of with a bow but I’m pretty much dinner if I need a 2nd shot with a cross bow. I think both delivery systems have advantages and disadvantages as others have pointed out. As in all hunting, practice puts meat in the jars!

I’m not sure what your point is about range. I’ve harvested damn near 100 deer with a rifle and not one has been over 100 yards. The norm has been more like 20 to 35 yards. Yeah my rifle can reach out and touch something a long way off. The military trained me to shoot at some impressive distances….but the deer have always been closer!

Personally I don’t see a need for archery only season. Hunting is hunting, I believe we all should take the field at the same time; the delivery platform is a personal decision. Why should archers get a separate season? I don’t understand why they do.


PFFFT? Is that your bowl disease going out of control or are you just flapping cheeks calling ducks?

Son I’m not interested in “debate”, I’m kind of past these extra curricular past times that young lads explore. I did not join your debating team so kindly don’t trouble me with your review of debating style.


I’ve given you my opinion, I don’t agree with your elitist position. I have however not “called you out”. If I call you out I’ll give my name and address, if I call you to the dance, you will have no doubt you’ve been invited. However, if you see this old cripple up a tree in 412 hunting with a crossbow and you feel the need to tell me that I should not be hunting with a cross bow…..you will most likely get an invite to a dance.

Yeah I’m going hunting with a cross bow, I have the right and I’ll exercise it. Zonker if you want to dance send me a pm, there is always lots of room on my dance card for peckerwoods who want to deny me my right to hunt. Sticking together is not denying or limiting another’s right to harvest. When the wind blows back on you possibly you will smell what you have posted.

[209x50]

tthomas,
What I see is a special interest group receiving preferential treatment who are very afraid of losing that special status and the privileges that come with it. I think that only a short sighted person would continue to push this matter to a ministerial decision rather than find a compromise. The last special interest group with preferential treatment that pushed rather than compromised was the Metis and we all know where their elitist attitude got them.
Is that what you want just one general season where all disciplines can hunt? That works well for me how about you?
By the ABA's own numbers 95% of their members do not hunt exclusively with archery tackle, are you afraid that there would be a big shift from the vertical to horizontal bow within the membership? Perhaps the "purists" would lose control of the ABA?
Right now there are WMUs where the bow season is 2 months long or twice as long as the rifle season. It doesn't seem equitable that 16% of the hunters have 66% of the season.
You seem to think that only possible solution is to remove days from the rifle season to extend the archery season. In reality there isn't a hope of the archery season getting any longer and even less chance it stays the length it is.

[Stinky Coyote]

holy crap, talk about making mountains out of mole hills.....guy can get lost in all that pretty easy, maybe thats exactly whats happening....and on purpose?...

a little evolution has happened here, we learned about a tool we didn't know much about that had an evil stigma, how did we ever get past slavery if we can't learn our way through the crossbow?.....now that we know about it and its simply another useful tool that fits 100% better in the 'archery' (whatever...heard it a million times, i get it, by definition blah blah blah) seasons because its a 'bow' as in the eyes of hunting and its end results...its a bow, and we simply had it lumped in the wrong category to be useful and helpful....how blind do we have to be to not see the overal picture? everyone wrapped up in all these little meaningless details and arguments, its like a big deflection really, stalling

and i thought i was king at putting down a ton of words to say the same thing...or nothing at all...well...nothing new at least

[CNP]

Originally Posted by 209x50

tthomas,
What I see is a special interest group receiving preferential treatment who are very afraid of losing that special status and the privileges that come with it. I think that only a short sighted person would continue to push this matter to a ministerial decision rather than find a compromise. The last special interest group with preferential treatment that pushed rather than compromised was the Metis and we all know where their elitist attitude got them.
Is that what you want just one general season where all disciplines can hunt? That works well for me how about you?
By the ABA's own numbers 95% of their members do not hunt exclusively with archery tackle, are you afraid that there would be a big shift from the vertical to horizontal bow within the membership? Perhaps the "purists" would lose control of the ABA?
Right now there are WMUs where the bow season is 2 months long or twice as long as the rifle season. It doesn't seem equitable that 16% of the hunters have 66% of the season.
You seem to think that only possible solution is to remove days from the rifle season to extend the archery season. In reality there isn't a hope of the archery season getting any longer and even less chance it stays the length it is.

What I see is a special interest group receiving preferential treatment who are very afraid of losing that special status and the privileges that come with it. I think that only a short sighted person would continue to push this matter to a ministerial decision rather than find a compromise. The last special interest group with preferential treatment that pushed rather than compromised was the Metis and we all know where their elitist attitude got them.

Hunters (not archers) are the special interst group. If you maintain archers are a special interest group then xbow enthusiasts are a special interest group also. The latter wanting the status of the former.......sorta like gay marriage. Hey, I like that analogy better than your metis one....they are both red-herrings anyway.

Right now there are WMUs where the bow season is 2 months long or twice as long as the rifle season. It doesn't seem equitable that 16% of the hunters have 66% of the season.

Hmmmmmmmmm, that would be a fallacious argument. 100% of hunters have the option of picking up a bow and joining the archery season. Less than 1% of hunters are incapable of drawing a 40# bow. That 1% and those fair-weather archers, waiting on the sidelines, believe it is their rightful place to drive the boat, be creative with the numbers, call the archery community selfish and express indignation when anyone questions their motives.

[bowhuntercam]

209,

Why is it unfair? Every Albertan has the same privilege, to hunt September, October and November. The way is see it 100% of the hunters have 100% of the season to hunt.

Originally Posted by 209x50

Right now there are WMUs where the bow season is 2 months long or twice as long as the rifle season. It doesn't seem equitable that 16% of the hunters have 66% of the season.

I would bet 16% (bowhunters) of the hunting population account for, or close to 16% of the total harvests.

Cam

[bowhuntercam]

ehntr, X2

[russ]

Originally Posted by bowhuntercam

209,

Why is it unfair? Every Albertan has the same privilege, to hunt September, October and November. The way is see it 100% of the hunters have 100% of the season to hunt.



I would bet 16% (bowhunters) of the hunting population account for, or close to 16% of the total harvests.

Cam

it's actually closer to 10% of the harvest for most species. I think IIRC, elk averages a 7% success rate for bowhunters and Mule Deer in most zones are 10-12%. The archers harvest is capped @ 15% for mule deer & whitetails total harvest regardless of weapon choice. If the harvest exceeds that cap, SRD WILL shorten the season and that HAS happened in the past and good luck getting the time back.

[rielbowhunter]

Originally Posted by willy

Any word on if they're gonna get 1 goin for next season? I think it would be great to get more out into the field hunting. Iknow the achery crowd will whine and bitch but who cares lets make a 2 week season just before rifle season where X-bows and other bow hunters can hunt. I'm lookin to buy one before spring.

I think things are good the way they are.but if you want to go crossbow hunting,then buy your crossbow and go hunting in November with it.
If you would like a longer season. There are some now for primitive weapons.(crossbows, bows,shotgun and muzzle loader's) That are late seasons. More could be made if areas(mwu) didn't get the animal harvest the SRD wanted. Then open more late season's in December for crossbows, bows,shotgun and muzzle loader's.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by russ

it's actually closer to 10% of the harvest for most species. I think IIRC, elk averages a 7% success rate for bowhunters and Mule Deer in most zones are 10-12%. The archers harvest is capped @ 15% for mule deer & whitetails total harvest regardless of weapon choice. If the harvest exceeds that cap, SRD WILL shorten the season and that HAS happened in the past and good luck getting the time back.

or go on draw where they are general....big deal

sometimes you gotta do whats good for everyone, just hope that the current high level of compound archery tackle etc. doesn't keep getting better and better and all by themselves the compound boys could break that 15% barrier....then what russ?

if the dang animals can't handle it then some take has to happen somewhere, the crossbow isn't going to make the difference, as mentioned the boys likely to be stalking prairie muleys will be the type to only to do with with compounds anyhow, do you really figure the trophy mule deer hunters will ALL use crossbows instead? and if they ALL did, you included, you really think they could break that 15%? come on russ, i know the planet archery is all that really matters where you like to live, but bring it back home to planet earth once in awhile

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by rielbowhunter

I think things are good the way they are.but if you want to go crossbow hunting,then buy your crossbow and go hunting in November with it.
If you would like a longer season. There are some now for primitive weapons.(crossbows, bows,shotgun and muzzle loader's) That are late seasons. More could be made if areas(mwu) didn't get the animal harvest the SRD wanted. Then open more late season's in December for crossbows, bows,shotgun and muzzle loader's.

things are excellent the way they are....could be a tad better though, thats why all this talk, its all win win except for a few trophy mule deer hunters in the south that figure its end of the world but the rest of the province country doesn't seem to have an opposing argument like the southern TROPHY mule deer hunters do, way more win for everyone else

[hoveysmith]

Crossbows allow you to take a kid, say 8-10 years old, and introduce him to shooting with a tool that is small enough and light enough for him/her to really shoot well (Barnett RC 150, about $236 U.S.). This is a 150-pound pull crossbow and will kill deer with good shot placement at about 25 yards. (I have done it.) Mom or dad will have to be with him/her to hunt; but must be there anyway for a kid this age to hunt in any state or province that I know of.
When the youngster grown sufficiently he can progress to a hunting-weight compound or recurve. Should he become injured during deer season he can fall back on his crossbow.
At the other end of life when one's body parts start wearing out, crossbows can allow archery hunting to continue 20 or 30 years beyond the time that a shooter can no long pull his hunting-weight bow.
Crossbows can do much towards teaching good shooting skills that translate to both archery and gun hunting. They allow precise placement of one arrow - that vital first shot. Crossbow shooters will almost never get a second shot, although bow shooters commonly do. The noise and movement of recocking a crossbow will send almost any whitetail bounding off, not to be seen anytime soon.
Crossbows are a useful tool for archers who are young, in their prime and for the increasing population of older hunters. They have no more range, are no more effective than compound bows; but are a bit easier to learn how to shoot well. They will bring more younger hunters into the woods with their parents and keep older archers shooting longer. Both of these are good outcomes for the future of hunting. Do not be too hasty to damn the crossbow as you may need it one of these days. Regretably, I cannot do the same hunts I did when I was 16 now that I am in my 60s. I still drag my deer in, three this year in Georgia thus far, all taken with one arrow each from crossbows. For more on these hunts (really different from Canada) go to www.hoveysmith.wordpress.com. You will also find information on my books, "Backyard Deer Hunting: Converting deer to dinner for pennies per pound," "Crossbow Hunting," and "Practical Bowfishing."
There will be some small minority of "slob hunters" who will try the crossbow, but a few sits in a plywood shed at 20 below zero will quickly weed these out. Your weather is your best tool for making sure that only those who really want to hunt will remain in the woods long enough to actually kill deer.

[thegunman]

I agree with reilbowhunter if you want to hunt with a cossbow hunt in november. Crossbow hunters arn't bow hunter's. A crossbow will kill a deer at 70 yards or more. A crossbow's just as easy as shooting gun.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by thegunman

I agree with reilbowhunter if you want to hunt with a cossbow hunt in november. Crossbow hunters arn't bow hunter's. A crossbow will kill a deer at 70 yards or more. A crossbow's just as easy as shooting gun.

[the diver hunter]

I doubt we'll ever see a crossbow season in Alberta, and I highly doubt that we will ever see crossbows used during regular archery season. The "bow association" in this province is one of the biggest and strongest in Canada, if not North America, and we all know where they stand on the topic. And when you have that much political clout, you can pretty much rule crossbows out.

I do have to say that we have made some progress in that crossbows are now allowed in a number of primitive weapon seasons, but c'mon guys, a crossbow doesn't stand a chance when you can hunt with a weapon that uses gun powder to launch its projectile instead. So what ... big deal ... we can use a crossbow during the same season as a shotgun or muzzleloader! Give me a break ... crossbows are not guns, and the only advantage one has over "traditional" archery equipment is that you don't have to hold back the weight of the limbs when under force. I've been hunting with a crossbow since the late 90s due to an impairment in my shoulder, and I can tell you firsthand that crossbows challenge a hunter more than other forms of archery tackle ... just try packing one through the woods all day and you'll understand what I mean ... and I say this after hunting with both recurve and compound bows (and I'm speaking of hand-held bows, not x-bows) for nearly 20 years previous to that!

I guess there's nothing wrong with dreaming ... and who knows, maybe we'll get someone in power who has an understanding of hunting and institue crossbows into archery season ... where they deserve to be!!!!!

PS I like the comment someone said earlier on this forum, where the person says that they hope we have a crossbow season once he is too old and worn-out to hunt with regular archery equipment any longer. Let's face it, our bodies wear out in time, but that doesn't mean we have to quit hunting does it? Apparently, if you live in Alberta, it does. But if Alberta opened crossbows up to all forms of archery seasons, we definitely wouldn't have to quit a sport that brings so much enjoyment to our lives. And isn't that what living in a democracry means ... to live life to the fullest and enjoymeny TO ALL?!!!!!

[albertadeer]

worst idea ever....im serious... you have to be pretty lazy or just not skilled to say...ya lets put a crossbow season in place...like comon...anyone who has shot both KNOWS that it is much much much much much easier to put the crosshairs on a chest then putting the peep and fiber optic on it....enough with this thread...NO CROSSBOW SEASON FOR THE POACHERS...

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by albertadeer

enough with this thread...NO CROSSBOW SEASON FOR THE POACHERS...

[209x50]

Originally Posted by albertadeer

worst idea ever....im serious... you have to be pretty lazy or just not skilled to say...ya lets put a crossbow season in place...like comon...anyone who has shot both KNOWS that it is much much much much much easier to put the crosshairs on a chest then putting the peep and fiber optic on it....enough with this thread...NO CROSSBOW SEASON FOR THE POACHERS...

Ahhh, such words of wisdom from the oh so informed.

[choclab]

209 watched your sheep hunt, nice ram. sure looks to me like you are capable of pulling a 50 pound bow with 80% letoff.