Alberta is Doomed !!!!!

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

Not looking good.

http://business.financialpost.com/ne..._lsa=cc60-80de

I did not vote for her.

[abhunter8]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Very shocked.. Honestly, I blame Wild Rose for this. People just wanted to vote for something, ANYTHING other than PC. NDP gave them that, if Wild Rose could have come up with a face and an actual platform more than 3 weeks before the election we probably wouldnt be in this mess.

On one hand I hope they can get themselves organised enough to take over whatever mess the NDP leaves us in. On the other hand I'm pretty ****ed off at them for throwing away the last two elections... if only there was enough privacy at the voting station to wipe my ass with the ballot.

lol... Ditto!

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by rugatika

OF course they do. I have never said any different. Government workers should be able to market their labour as they see fit and reap whatever benefit they can from the free market. Anyone I know that works for government does so of their own free will, and they make good money AND excellent benefits doing so. So much so that very few of them are able to transition to the private sector successfully and choose to remain employed by the government their entire lives.

Why shouldn't I be able to cherry pick where MY money goes? Why should the NDP get to cherry pick where MY money goes? Do you think the NDP can donate MY money better than I can? Money I donate goes 100% to charity, the NDP are going to pay bureaucrats thousands and thousands of dollars to collect that money and then thousands and thousands of dollars to dole it out. I do that all for free.

You think it's OK for someone to take half a person's wages and then squander it on ineffective programs?

Seriously, and I say this with all deference, you really need to get educated on the perils of socialism. Part of voting in a democracy is taking the time to seriously consider how you vote and educating yourself so that you can make an intelligent decision rather than just yelling at and insulting people who have more informed opinions than you do.

I would suggest you are the one that needs educating. The NDP doesn't dictate. The people voted for change and has given the NDP a mandate. Sure you won't like everything. Suck it up. Keep in mind their were plenty of people that had to live with your ilk's priorities during 44 yrs of PC reign. That is called democracy. Its quite funny that democracy is being mistaken for communism by folks who claim to know everything. Democracy doesn't mean getting everything you want whenever you want wherever you want. There is always compromise in democracy. There is no forcing of agenda's. The majority has spoken.

Neither the PC's nor the NDP represent everything I believe in. C'est la vie. I'm rational enough to realize There is no way to satisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time. I willing to stay positive and work with the current democratically elected gov't to make the most of things. Its not in my best interest to see this or any gov't fail.

Prentice represents this board very well. When things are going their way everything is roses. If things tilt any bit the other way its time to take the ball and storm off home. Boo hoo

[ArtG]

Originally Posted by rugatika

OF course they do. I have never said any different. Government workers should be able to market their labour as they see fit and reap whatever benefit they can from the free market. Anyone I know that works for government does so of their own free will, and they make good money AND excellent benefits doing so. So much so that very few of them are able to transition to the private sector successfully and choose to remain employed by the government their entire lives.

Why shouldn't I be able to cherry pick where MY money goes? Why should the NDP get to cherry pick where MY money goes? Do you think the NDP can donate MY money better than I can? Money I donate goes 100% to charity, the NDP are going to pay bureaucrats thousands and thousands of dollars to collect that money and then thousands and thousands of dollars to dole it out. I do that all for free.

You think it's OK for someone to take half a person's wages and then squander it on ineffective programs?

Seriously, and I say this with all deference, you really need to get educated on the perils of socialism. Part of voting in a democracy is taking the time to seriously consider how you vote and educating yourself so that you can make an intelligent decision rather than just yelling at and insulting people who have more informed opinions than you do.

This is the reason NDP won.

Every one heard raise corporate taxes
raise min. wage.
more money to public services.

But no one stopped to think how all this will impact a province where the main source of revenue is Oil.

[silverdoctor]

And the NDP will probably get the blame for everything up to and including what's already happened in Alberta. This is going to get interesting.

New majority government at the worst possible time. Prentice's big mistake was being arrogant to seal the PC's success, instead he's made it worse by calling an election. Oil is down, layoffs are huge as companies ditch much of their deadwood, oil uncertainty. Wages are already decreasing, for proof of that, ask people that are looking for work, it's an employers market.

The high cost of living that we created is just going to be the icing on the cake. Notley has inherited a mess at the worst possible time IMO. Bob Rae inherited a similar mess in Ontario when he headed up the NDP. Yep, he made some bad calls but sometimes you just can't win.


I just sincerely hope that Notley realizes she got the vote for not being PC.

[raab]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

And the NDP will probably get the blame for everything up to and including what's already happened in Alberta. This is going to get interesting.

New majority government at the worst possible time. Prentice's big mistake was being arrogant to seal the PC's success, instead he's made it worse by calling an election. Oil is down, layoffs are huge as companies ditch much of their deadwood, oil uncertainty. Wages are already decreasing, for proof of that, ask people that are looking for work, it's an employers market.

The high cost of living that we created is just going to be the icing on the cake. Notley has inherited a mess at the worst possible time IMO. Bob Rae inherited a similar mess in Ontario when he headed up the NDP. Yep, he made some bad calls but sometimes you just can't win.


I just sincerely hope that Notley realizes she got the vote for not being PC.

This is the reason I think Brian Jean will be the next Premier of Alberta. He's the only guy who will be able to fix the mess the NDP make because he "Won't Raise Your Taxes".

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by raab

This is the reason I think Brian Jean will be the next Premier of Alberta. He's the only guy who will be able to fix the mess the NDP make because he "Won't Raise Your Taxes".

And we're not in a mess at the moment?

Did people really think that Jean would take a majority on the anger vote? Even after the floor crossings, relatively unproven party, trying to get a fresh start after nearly being destroyed? Give him 4 years, riiiiggghhhttttt, like he's going to have much of a say in the Legislative Assembly.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by ArtG

This is the reason NDP won.



But no one stopped to think how all this will impact a province where the main source of revenue is Oil.

Actually I thought about it. I considered Notley's actual proposals and there is nothing there that will kill the AB economy. I work with oilfield economics virtually every day. A 2% increase is not going to change much. She vowed no royalty review will happen until prices/profit margins improve. I'm all for giving companies breathing room in tight times but if companies are making strong profits they should be contributing something to AB infrastructure before paying out big dividends. Infrastucture that the company and shareholders are benefitting from to gain their profits. There is no free ride for people or corps/investors. Nothing communist about paying a fair share of costs relative to profits.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

I would suggest you are the one that needs educating. The NDP doesn't dictate. The people voted for change and has given the NDP a mandate. Sure you won't like everything. Suck it up. Keep in mind their were plenty of people that had to live with your ilk's priorities during 44 yrs of PC reign. That is called democracy. Its quite funny that democracy is being mistaken for communism by folks who claim to know everything. Democracy doesn't mean getting everything you want whenever you want wherever you want. There is always compromise in democracy. There is no forcing of agenda's. The majority has spoken.

Neither the PC's nor the NDP represent everything I believe in. C'est la vie. I'm rational enough to realize There is no way to satisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time. I willing to stay positive and work with the current democratically elected gov't to make the most of things. Its not in my best interest to see this or any gov't fail.

Prentice represents this board very well. When things are going their way everything is roses. If things tilt any bit the other way its time to take the ball and storm off home. Boo hoo

What an incredibly incoherent, non-sensical post. Nothing you said is based on any sliver of fact.

I'm not going anywhere, I never supported Prentice, (or Redford for that matter).

Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting what to have for dinner.

[ArtG]

i really hope NDP introduce the Drive Clean money grab program, so Albertas carbon foot print is reduced. That would be fun to see.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by rugatika

What an incredibly incoherent, non-sensical post. Nothing you said is based on any sliver of fact.

I'm not going anywhere, I never supported Prentice, (or Redford for that matter).

Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting what to have for dinner.

I'm not surprised you don't understand that. Blinded with bias. Its the far right way.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by ArtG

i really hope NDP introduce the Drive Clean money grab program, so Albertas carbon foot print is reduced. That would be fun to see.

So you are hoping for failure. What a great ABer you are.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by rugatika

What an incredibly incoherent, non-sensical post. Nothing you said is based on any sliver of fact.

I'm not going anywhere, I never supported Prentice, (or Redford for that matter).

Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting what to have for dinner.

Democracy is wonderful until it doesn't suit you... Get out and vote? They did, the people have spoken.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Actually I thought about it. I considered Notley's actual proposals and there is nothing there that will kill the AB economy. I work with oilfield economics virtually every day. A 2% increase is not going to change much.

'As an investor in the oil patch, you're going to get your teeth kicked in.'
- Rafi Tahmazian, Canoe Financial
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...-win-1.3062700
The initial reaction from the markets is negative.

The TSX opened lower Wednesday morning overall, the price of oil traded above $62 per barrel for the first time in nearly five months and the energy sub index dropped by three per cent. Oilsands players such as Cenovus are taking a harder hit, down nearly five per cent.

This is not a surprise as investors hate uncertainty and there is now uncertainty in Alberta's oil patch.

Hope the company you work for wasn't relying on your "economic" predictions for their future profitability.

[raab]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

And we're not in a mess at the moment?

Did people really think that Jean would take a majority on the anger vote? Even after the floor crossings, relatively unproven party, trying to get a fresh start after nearly being destroyed? Give him 4 years, riiiiggghhhttttt, like he's going to have much of a say in the Legislative Assembly.

I think the problem the WRP had was Jean was only on the job a month as of April 28th. Danielle Smith and the two timing backstabbers were still at the forefront of peoples memories. And he wasn't able to get his message out fast enough due to PC's calling a quick election and the PC's decimating the party with the floor crossing scandal. I have no doubt in my mind that Brian Jean was the best man for the job. Just need enough time to convince everyone else.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Democracy is wonderful until it doesn't suit you... Get out and vote? They did, the people have spoken.

This is interesting coming from you. Are you ok with democracy if it means losing liberty? (as referenced in my wolf quote above)

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Actually I thought about it. I considered Notley's actual proposals and there is nothing there that will kill the AB economy. I work with oilfield economics virtually every day. A 2% increase is not going to change much. She vowed no royalty review will happen until prices/profit margins improve. I'm all for giving companies breathing room in tight times but if companies are making strong profits they should be contributing something to AB infrastructure before paying out big dividends. Infrastucture that the company and shareholders are benefitting from to gain their profits. There is no free ride for people or corps/investors. Nothing communist about paying a fair share of costs relative to profits.

2% a a few billion dollars is a sizeable chunk of change. so no doubt that people are going to either lose jobs, or the companies just wont hire on anymore to make up for it.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Democracy is wonderful until it doesn't suit you... Get out and vote? They did, the people have spoken.

Honestly I think if they could get away with it they would use the military to get back their party back on top. And not see anything wrong with that... Because they are saving democracy LOL

The peons don't know anything I'm hardly surprised at the attitude. I've heard the same drivel repeatedly in lunchrooms across the land. Lots of know it all's who think they are gods gift to the world. Their work is more important. Their issues should be everyone's top priority. Everyone else is stupid. Great recipe for success.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by raab

I think the problem the WRP had was Jean was only on the job a month as of April 28th. Danielle Smith and the two timing backstabbers were still at the forefront of peoples memories. And he wasn't able to get his message out fast enough due to PC's calling a quick election and the PC's decimating the party with the floor crossing scandal. I have no doubt in my mind that Brian Jean was the best man for the job. Just need enough time to convince everyone else.

Yep, and Prentice knew it. The WR were done, and Alberta will vote an NDP government when hell freezes over. He took advantage of it, gambled big and lost big time. Albertans are the ones that are going to lose.

Blame the PC's for the mess we're in at the moment - and for when it gets worse. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

Now it's the negativity due to the PC's screwups.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by rugatika

This is interesting coming from you. Are you ok with democracy if it means losing liberty?

It was you who that crowed about 60% of the population benefits from the rest that voted correctly after Harper got in... Now that the shoe is on the other foot, 40% of the crowd in Alberta got the NDP a majority.

Danielle warned against it, she said the WR and PC should unite. Be darned if she wasn't correct in some ways.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

It was you who that crowed about 60% of the population benefits from the rest that voted correctly after Harper got in... Now that the shoe is on the other foot, 40% of the crowd in Alberta got the NDP a majority.

Danielle warned against it, she said the WR and PC should unite. Be darned if she wasn't correct in some ways.

I notice that you don't like answering questions. Ever.

[VanIsleGuy]

One upside is that my tuition won't increase. Won't make up for the rest of the issues to come.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by rugatika

This is interesting coming from you. Are you ok with democracy if it means losing liberty? (as referenced in my wolf quote above)

Originally Posted by rugatika

I notice that you don't like answering questions. Ever.

Ok, i'll bite. I don't feel that we are losing liberty through an NDP government. I didn't vote for them, but it is what it is Rug. It's democracy, proportional but...
We have an NDP government.

[ArtG]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Actually I thought about it. I considered Notley's actual proposals and there is nothing there that will kill the AB economy. I work with oilfield economics virtually every day. A 2% increase is not going to change much. She vowed no royalty review will happen until prices/profit margins improve. I'm all for giving companies breathing room in tight times but if companies are making strong profits they should be contributing something to AB infrastructure before paying out big dividends. Infrastucture that the company and shareholders are benefitting from to gain their profits. There is no free ride for people or corps/investors. Nothing communist about paying a fair share of costs relative to profits.

I'm all for the 2% increase and welcome it. What doesn't add up is how the 2% increase will pay for all the public sector projects (schools, Hospitals) I work in the construction industry as a technologist/ project manager so right now we are busy as hell and are actually hiring. So all the upgrades/new schools and hospitals is welcomed. (keeps me employed)

In so there is one thing I know for curtain and that is any estimated cost of building or upgrading school and hospitals is no where near close to what the thinks. So they want to invest say 100 million in these project it will cost close to 180 million. That's just a best case option and any hospital upgrades are not even worth the money because by the end it would have been cheaper to just build a new one. (proven track record)

So my question still stands will the 2% increase in taxes be enough?

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

2% a a few billion dollars is a sizeable chunk of change. so no doubt that people are going to either lose jobs, or the companies just wont hire on anymore to make up for it.

Companies look at percentages and work that into their economics. 2% is 2% After capital write offs what is that actually going to represent to rates of return? The tax will likely be a wash between income benefits and reduced industry activity. Definitely more of a perception move to satiate the people. The real benefit would come from taxing profits. Is a company making a 20% profit going to pull out because of a 5% tax on that profit? Don't think its unfair to tax profits over a certain amount. Companies/investors do benefit from AB infrastructure right along with ABers.

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by ArtG

I'm all for the 2% increase and welcome it. What doesn't add up is how the 2% increase will pay for all the public sector projects (schools, Hospitals) I work in the construction industry as a technologist/ project manager so right now we are busy as hell and are actually hiring. So all the upgrades/new schools and hospitals is welcomed. (keeps me employed)

In so there is one thing I know for curtain and that is any estimated cost of building or upgrading school and hospitals is no where near close to what the thinks. So they want to invest say 100 million in these project it will cost close to 180 million. That's just a best case option and any hospital upgrades are not even worth the money because by the end it would have been cheaper to just build a new one. (proven track record)

So my question still stands will the 2% increase in taxes be enough?

Simple answer really, IT WON'T! Expect many different tax increases ACROSS THE BOARD!!

[ratherbeoutside]

And a collective sigh from the rest of Canada. Sh**, there go our equalization payments...

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by ArtG

I'm all for the 2% increase and welcome it. What doesn't add up is how the 2% increase will pay for all the public sector projects (schools, Hospitals) I work in the construction industry as a technologist/ project manager so right now we are busy as hell and are actually hiring. So all the upgrades/new schools and hospitals is welcomed. (keeps me employed)

In so there is one thing I know for curtain and that is any estimated cost of building or upgrading school and hospitals is no where near close to what the thinks. So they want to invest say 100 million in these project it will cost close to 180 million. That's just a best case option and any hospital upgrades are not even worth the money because by the end it would have been cheaper to just build a new one. (proven track record)

So my question still stands will the 2% increase in taxes be enough?

It may well not be enough and I don't think anyone said it would be. What the heck can we do? Cram kids into schools to unsafe levels? If the schools are needed they are needed. As a construction guy you should know that the cost is the cost. If we want the infrastructure we have to pay for it. Yes that may mean higher taxes. That or all you construction guys take a pay cut...yeah I thought not. I think we tend to forget the we do indeed at least get something for our taxes. Now I would certainly like to see cost restraint also. I hate seeing new schools that look like a piece of art. Simple and functional should be the standard. Maybe the NDP will go that way. Lets try to push them. A new gov't should be more open to suggestions.

I would love to get something for nothing but I won't hold my breath waiting for a party that can accomplish that miracle.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by edmhunter

Simple answer really, IT WON'T! Expect many different tax increases ACROSS THE BOARD!!

Absolutely. If we want schools to house our kids we have to pay for them. If we want hospitals and staff to reduce wait times we have to pay for them. If costs dictate we are not currently covering the bill then we pay. Nothing in life is free.

[trooper]

Although I voted WR, I'm willing to give young ms Notley the benefit of the doubt.. The reason I say this is that she has to have seen what an NDP govt can do to other provinces to ruin their economies.. knowing this, maybe she will adjust her methods. This is her chance to shine. Lets see and hope.