$13 Billion Subsidy in Lithium Battery Technology

[Stinky Buffalo]

I'm with you, TC. Hydrogen is gaining a lot of momentum.

I think when people start to grasp how the generation, storage and use would be applied in practical terms they'll see the advantages.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by plaerzen

I can get behind large capital projects in Canada. Better than the billions wasted on Keystone XL for vote buying.

They tell us fuel prices are so high because we don't have enough refining capacity so if they shut a plant for maintenance we have to pay higher prices. How about some grant money to build more refineries and sell refined Canadian products rather than just oil??

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Another really good reality check on the idea of converting all vehicles to BEV. From the trucking industry:

https://trucking.org/news-insights/h...truck-mandates

And again, this is why i say that the path forward is going to be hydrogen. Far more realistic

Ballard is building fuel cells for, you guessed it, EV charging stations.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Another really good reality check on the idea of converting all vehicles to BEV. From the trucking industry:

https://trucking.org/news-insights/h...truck-mandates

And again, this is why i say that the path forward is going to be hydrogen. Far more realistic

Absolutely agree with this fellow.

We looked into upgrading our power supply and going electric with our forklifts. 2 years ago we were quoted 150,000.00 to bring the power supply needed to our property line. Brining it into the building and getting set up was another 150-200,000.00. Then the chargers and equipment. 30 forklifts. We never even got that for, and will be using propane for the years to come.

BW

[plaerzen]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

They tell us fuel prices are so high because we don't have enough refining capacity so if they shut a plant for maintenance we have to pay higher prices. How about some grant money to build more refineries and sell refined Canadian products rather than just oil??

Hey I'm all for that idea too. We've needed it for a while now, for fuels other than diesel (which we are a net exporter of, last I checked, but then why is diesel so expensive too?? hrmmm... )

[Twisted Canuck]

Another article on the reality of EVs. What an exercise in fantasy.

https://www.cfact.org/2023/05/13/dea...-er-nightmare/

[6.5 shooter]

... 17 Billion down the drain from Ottawa.. A promise of 82 Billion from Nutley and the NDP to go net zero... it is only (your) money after all, you can't take it with you. Seems to be the logic of the day .

[Au revoir, Gopher]

And now Stellantis/LG are going "wait, we only got $1billion."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...-over-federal/

ARG

[REMINGTON JIM]

There’s NOTHING about this deal that will benefit the Taxlayers like you and me. Only the Corrupt will reap the rewards of our tax $$ JMO RJ

[waldedw]

Here is an interesting article about the truth of EV's and lithium batteries.

LithiumBatteries.pdf

[Drewski Canuck]

Sometimes there is a payback from massive Government Subsidies, sometimes not.

The Avro Arrow was a spiralling financial sinkhole regardless what anyone wants to believe. It turned out that manned interceptor aircraft to stop a Soviet ICBM Missile attack was pointless. The technology could not be commercialized, and in any event, it was not going to be commercialized in Canada.

More recent is the pipeline of debt being piled up by Trans Mountain. There the Government decided "to go it alone" on the pipeline business. It will never be paid for, and the IRONY is that the more rational Northern Gateway Line was ready to be built for a fraction of the cost, and deliver to the Port of Prince Rupert that did not threaten the Southern Killer Whales in the Salish Sea near Vancouver.

Then Justin remembered his so called kayaking in the coastal rainforest, and the "spirit bear" that he was so concerned about. Was he smoking alot of pot to come up with that line?

Why not tell the truth that we are going to be subsidizing each and every battery and EV built in Ontario simply to keep jobs in Ontario at Canadian Tax Payers expense? It would be cheaper to just give each battery / EV worker their expected paycheck to sit home.

When the Companies get lured away by a lower tax location, if they ever pay any tax at all, we will be left on the hook for Billions by JT's merry crew of dreamers.

Drewski

[outofbounds]

https://www.rocktechlithium.com/news...-the-bmi-group

An announcement at PDAC, proposed lithium bearing spodumene extraction, refining locally, ship to offshore to European converter, fueling European EV and battery markets is still the plan for RockTech.

IESO study reveals the transmission connection for mine (extraction site) is tapped, as is currently at 96% load capacity. Radial Feed.
Alternatively, Wartsila generation via a tap into the adjacent 42" TC Energy Mainline for fuel gas, for generators or rebuild the tapped A4L 115kV circuit to sustain the additional load.
3 hydroelectric dams local to the proposed project are their source of "clean energy" both for extraction and the proposed refinery via two separate 115kV circuits respectively.
9-year life of mine, both open pit and UG to mine lithium-bearing spodumene in NW Ontario, refine and process to lithium hydroxide:
Extract ore, truck ore to refinery, refine cycle at Red Rock, loadout refined product via deep sea port at Red Rock, export to Lithium Converter located in Germany via St. Lawrence Seaway, convert to lithium hydroxide at Guben,
Fuel European EV and battery markets and EV producers such as Mercedez-Benz.

The carbon footprint trail starts in Canada and continues to the converter in Germany.

Many are questioning the process and required volume of fossil fuel and energy to be burned and the volume of freshwater that is required in the process to extract, refine, ship, and convert to a useable lithium hydroxide product for battery markets.

There will be considerable spending required for the infrastructure upgrades,
The lithium-bearing spodumene at the proposed extraction site was discovered in the '50s.

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Gee, I was hoping someone would follow up with the obvious reality of this stupid move by the Feds. Besides the obvious business reason that subsidies are a no win for the host Government, Canada will never be a world leader on EV Battery production as we cannot compete with China or the US for that matter.

But of course the real question is why build a Battery Plant in Ontario? Its the only way to keep the auto manufacturing sector alive in Ontario.

Oh then there is the fact that north of Ottawa in Quebec there is a proposed Lithium Mine that would need somewhere to sell its product to, which certainly is not to China which has its own Lithium.

Lets just call it like it is. $13 Billion on a boondoggle that the rest of us will pay for that delivers no benefit to the majority of Canadians.

Drewski

Hmmm wonder if a full environmental assessment will be done?

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

I agree with Canuck, no one knows which technology will be the winner. Very high risk to bet $13 billion of tax payers hard earned tax money $$ on one company and one technology. Only a very inexperienced virtue signalling Drama teacher would make such a risky move to create jobs/votes in Ontario/Quebec.

There. Fixed it for you

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper01

That’s the worst part. Mandating electric vehicles before the grid is upgraded is brain dead. But no one would vote for that if they knew the true cost of the transition. If people had to pay to upgrade the grid before the mandate they would not be so willing to do it.

A very good point that gets little to no attention

[lmtada]

Molson Coors brewery investing in Solar Power. Large 300MWatt project enough to power there brewery and 90,000 homes on 1100 acres.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/03/...solar-project/

[32-40win]

Tesla didn't close their plant in California for no good reason. They're not the only ones moving out of California. All the talk of the battery plants being built may just come to a dead halt with vehicle mfgrs mostly abandoning EV's left, right and center. I wonder about banks & investment groups financing this stuff now, along with insurance companies. It's going to be an interesting period after the next election in the US and Cda, lot of govt's doing a lot of reassessing in EU, India and China as well, whole lot of "wait a minute!!" going on.