[Long Distance shooting] Ballistic computer

[Fredo]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if somebody have experience with the Kestrel 4500 HORUS or Horus software used on a PDA.
I'm mathematically challenged so I have great issues calculating MOA's and distance. I need some training wheels.
What are my best options, at the best price, considering I don't want to buy a BORS ? Rifle is .338 LM, scope is a Vortex PST FFP 6-24x50, MOA reticle.

Thanks !

[densa44]

I don't get a lot of that stuff either, in shooting you have 2 problems IME one range and 2 holding the rifle steady. While you are waiting for the experts to explain everything. I suggest practicing with your rifle until you can shoot a loonie at 200M. After that it may make sense to start twisting the turrets on your scope.

BTW when my son and I shoot, he has all that stuff, including a wing meter. The rub is as far as I could tell there is no way to be sure that the scope is back to the original zero, after you change the range of the target. Old dad still out shoots him!

[krthegunslinger]

Originally Posted by densa44

I don't get a lot of that stuff either, in shooting you have 2 problems IME one range and 2 holding the rifle steady. While you are waiting for the experts to explain everything. I suggest practicing with your rifle until you can shoot a loonie at 200M. After that it may make sense to start twisting the turrets on your scope.

BTW when my son and I shoot, he has all that stuff, including a wing meter. The rub is as far as I could tell there is no way to be sure that the scope is back to the original zero, after you change the range of the target. Old dad still out shoots him!

"Old dad still out shoots him"
That is awesome. So reminds me of a story dad told about grampa and his old 303. When the 5 other guys were done shooting and the big mule buck was still running away. He hollered at em "you guys all done now". Hobbled over to the truck and pulled out his ol 303 from behind the seat, dusted off the sight up and BOOM. Rolled the buck dead before it hit the ground. One guy in the hunting party looks down at his brand new WBY something or other and says "huh what'd I buy all this for". I'm a shooting gadgets guy too like your son.
Your post triggered that memory . Thanks.

[gitrdun]

I use Strelock app on my smart phone for long range session, it's free and works ver well.

Bob (6.5x47 lapua) showed me how to be able to always return my turrets to zero in the event that I either lost track or someone totally messed around with the turrets. It works and is valuable kowledge.

[4x4life]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

I use Strelock app on my smart phone for long range session, it's free and works ver well.

Bob (6.5x47 lapua) showed me how to be able to always return my turrets to zero in the event that I either lost track or someone totally messed around with the turrets. It works and is valuable kowledge.

I use an iPhone, and I found iStrelok-4.99 and iStrelok pro-7.99...Is there a different one that you are using that you can get for free? I also usually shoot winchester ammo, so the winchester ballistics calculator for the iPhone works well for me. But it only shows the winchester ammo...

I don't suppose you would want to let us in on your secret for finding zero on the turrets, would you...
I am usually pretty good with counting clicks, but sometimes things happen...

[tchardy1972]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

I use Strelock app on my smart phone for long range session, it's free and works ver well.

Bob (6.5x47 lapua) showed me how to be able to always return my turrets to zero in the event that I either lost track or someone totally messed around with the turrets. It works and is valuable kowledge.

I would also like to hear your trick. I found myself a whole revolution out this year. That was one lucky coyote.

I use strelok +. It has a few extra features that the regular one didn't have that I find handy for the cost. I really like the trueing feature.

[Fredo]

Originally Posted by densa44

I don't get a lot of that stuff either, in shooting you have 2 problems IME one range and 2 holding the rifle steady. While you are waiting for the experts to explain everything. I suggest practicing with your rifle until you can shoot a loonie at 200M. After that it may make sense to start twisting the turrets on your scope.

Thanks but I think I'm half decent up to 300 yds with a .223 with a sling
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I've challenged myself is to shoot 2'' sized groups at 750+ using a much bigger caliber. At this point, I believe there is no room or experimentation, unless you want to create expensive noise. And I'm not that rich, hence the vortex

I'm not good at calculations and I'm not willing to put 5 grand in a BORS + S&B combo. My ultimate goal is to be able to shoot without any electronic assistance, and as I said earlier I need training wheels.

This particular rifle/scope unit is almost zeroed, but zeroed is not the issue there, my issue is to know how many clicks I have to adjust for distances that are before and after the zero, or what dot in the reticle is the most suitable

I don't have an iPhone or a smartphone.

After breaking in the rifle, I'll reload my ammo, so I need something not related to a specific brand.

[qwert]

It is all expensive noise and the world’s most expensive paper punch and gong hammer.

Long range tools are expensive, I suggest you research them carefully and download the operators instruction manuals for study.

I personally selected -
Leica CRF 1600B
http://en.leica-camera.com/sport_opt...r_new/crf_new/
for its reputation and good reviews and for added measurement/functionality of inclination and equivalent horizontal range, and temp and barometric pressure required to calculate density altitude. It will also calculate required scope clicks or holdovers for 12 different ballistic drop curves out to 875 yds.
Manual http://en.leica-camera.com/assets/fi...=file_7413.pdf

and
Kestrel 4500NV with Applied Ballistics
http://kestrelmeters.com/products/ke...llistics-meter
http://appliedballisticsllc.com/
http://store.appliedballisticsllc.co...oductCode=3001
Manual
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/008...trucstions.pdf
USB docking station
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/My%20Documents/Ballistics/Kestrel/Kestrel%20Meter%20USB%20Port%20Interface%20_%20Kes trelMeters.com.htm
to allow up&download and manage additional gun/bullet combinations and to backup the Applied Ballistics data from the Kestrel
AB support forum
http://forum.snipershide.com/range-r...rt-thread.html

in Canada best price?
http://www.forthebirdsnatureshop.ca/...eather-meters/
http://www.forthebirdsnatureshop.ca/...ed-ballistics/
USB docking station
http://www.forthebirdsnatureshop.ca/...ator-software/

Good Luck, YMMV

PS: The return to zero function is called “zero stop”, I do not know how to implement with Vortex scopes

[Fredo]

Thanks qwert, useful infos.

Was planning to get this kestrel unit or combining a midrange kestrel with a Horus PDA, which end up at the same price. I was wondering if the Kestrel 4500 was as complete as a dedicated AtragMX unit.
Will definitely upgrade my LRF as soon as I'm able to hit regularly at 500 yds, and will get this one.

On a Viper Scope, there is no zero stop. You can set up a zero artificially, by using the shims and stacking them in the turrets. Not great, but better than nothing, and considering the price of the scope it is a nice touch.
Not many scopes have true zero stop, and you already know their name and their price...

[qwert]

Suggest you compare Horus and Applied Ballistics software carefully. If you prefer the Horus software, it is also available installed in a Kestral 4500 for the same price as AB. IIRC Horus does not support G7 BC, which is desirable for boat tail bullets. Also consider upgradeability, cost and support. If you do not currently have a suitable PDA to run Horus, then that cost is also a factor, and you will end up with 3 separate devices to carry (and keep spare batteries for) and you will need to manually enter the weather data in the PDA. The Kestrel 4500NV with Applied Ballistics or Horus are both very elegant kit, and they cost less than 100 rounds of quality ammunition.

Only you can decide what combination best fits your needs and budget but reading manuals and working with free and online software will be a good (free) learning exercise. If you are shooting at known distances then you do not need a range-finder.

Getting on target quickly, and reloading will both reduce your ammunition costs. IMHO shooting cheap factory ammo to get questionable quality low cost brass is false economy, in the long run high quality is usually the best value.

Good Luck, YMMV

[Mateo]

When you have your reloads dialled in for accuracy you can shoot and get your ballistics info for that load and then get you a custom turret made with the ranges marked on there. Or even figure out a clever way of marking on the turret yourself the ranges so all you have to do is range it with any decent range finder and then turn your turret to the coresponding mark. Makes for a fun project and with the online ballistic calculators out there it should be fairly easy.

[Fredo]

Thanks a million qwert, I'll do some reading in the next days. Did not know about AB software.
Leaning toward a 4500 unit, too bad there are no solar cells for them, they will be perfect then.
I don't want to be cheap, neither prodigal. As long as my expenses make sense, I'll be happy. I want my shooting to be economically practical, if such a thing exist.


Mateo : Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely do that when my load will be defined.

[Ivo]

-Ballistic turrets do you no good as elevation and density altitude change, your turrets no longer mean *****.
-The cheapest price I found was at a hobby shop in Calgary on Ogden Rd.(I can't remember the name of the place off hand) It was under $600 from the 4500NV Horus no blue tooth.
-Phones and PDAs are good for ballistics programs but you still need a good weather meter that will give you all the atmospheric conditions including wind, then you need to input it all into your PDA to get a firing solution.

-I use a Vectronix PLRF 15C which gives me range and incline combined with the Kestrel 4500NV with Horus which gives reliable solutions out farther than I can shoot.

[Dominq]

Originally Posted by tchardy1972

I would also like to hear your trick. I found myself a whole revolution out this year. That was one lucky coyote.

I use strelok +. It has a few extra features that the regular one didn't have that I find handy for the cost. I really like the trueing feature.

Once you have your zero set as you like, turn your knob all the way to the bottom while counting the numbers of turns / clicks. Do the same for the horizontal, I usually go to the left, and again count the number of turns / clicks. I have a small sticker with those numbers glued to my stock.

If you loose your zero you can get your adjustment back to the bottom (and to the left) and crank the number of turns / clicks that you came up with. Even if you did reajust your zero over time, for different loads for example, this will take you close enough to be workable, at least you'll get on paper.

dom

[Quinn]

The biggest thing about the Ballistic Kestrel is the ability for it to calculate changes on the fly. That can be both beneficial and problematic. The second biggest benefit is having it all in one device.

Shooting long range you'll often hear the wind at shooters location is most important. Plotting out the ballistic profiles shows that's not exactly the case. Wind throughout the entire length is always important. Where I shoot, wind is variable, all the time. Often going the opposite direction of shooters location. Using shooter's location wind only will rarely net you a hit.

I use my Iphone with Isnipe and a Kestrel 3500. Works well, but can be a lot to carry and keep track of. I don't hunt so I can have all this stuff set-out in front of me and even then it's annoying.

Another issue is some complain about the Kestrel's screen. On the cheaper models the screen has large numbers, on the ballistics they are quite small. I don't have an issue with eye sight but I can see why some would.

For long range the basics have to be learnt and understood first. 350-500 yard regular hits on reasonable size targets should be easy.

I'm to this forum and relatively new to long range shooting. That being said, in the 2y I've been shooting long range I've gone through two rifles and est 2500 rounds. Most of which is 600+ yards. I'd be willing to help those wanting to stretch their rifles legs and share what info I've learnt. It's exciting to see people get their first 1000y hit!

[Fredo]

Thanks a lot all, for those fantastic tips.
I am getting started in LRS, and I did not expect so many aspects on the problem... I'm happy I did not run to the range first thing after I received my system a few weeks ago.
Your expertise is indeed valuable and saved me time and money.

[Quinn]

Originally Posted by Fredo

Thanks a lot all, for those fantastic tips.
I am getting started in LRS, and I did not expect so many aspects on the problem... I'm happy I did not run to the range first thing after I received my system a few weeks ago.
Your expertise is indeed valuable and saved me time and money.

Have fun with it! Shots are shots, but 100y work can teach you many things. If you have the basics down, then comes to learning wind and the physics of the shot.

Another thing is to fine the load that works with your gun. Be that factory or hand rolled. You don't need super accuracy (because that'll cost you big bucks) but .75-1MOA will go a long ways. Reading wind will net you better results then .5 MOA potential on rounds further than 500.

[Faststeel]

The Nikon rep showed me their program on the nikon web site , it is very easy to use. FS