dog tips

[Redfrog]

I know some of you have new retriever pups, and I hope you enjoy each other for many hunting seasons and years to come.

I thought of something this morning I wish all of you would consider. It may save your dog's life.

When training I like to use the plastic training dummies[bumpers] with the little knobs on them. They last for years if the dog doesn't chew them, and come in different sizes and colors.
The bumpers come in 2" and 3 " diameter.
If you are doing water work , Please, use the 2". On land it doesn't matter, but in the water it does. When a dog does a retrieve and the big swim, he'll take on some water. With the larger bumpers, he'll take on more water.
Often when he's done a water retrieve, he'll get a "happy" bumper or two to warm him up or loosen him up. With a stomach full of water he could twist his gut. I've seen dogs that looked like they took on a milk jug full of water after a big swim.
A twisted gut will mean a dead dog or serious surgery.

Don't stop swimming your dog or tossing a few "happy" bumpers after, just use the small bumpers in the water and be aware of the risk.

One more thing. Use bumpers or birds for your dog. If you throw sticks he will bring back a stick when you shoot a bird.

[SEADOG]

Make sense,good advice.been wondering about this for a whil;e now hopefully you can advise? my dog willl sit and stay while i walk out say 100 yrds or more throw the bumpers walk back to her and then release her, shell do fine with 2 bumpers still not quite at triples yet! my question is, should i be having someelse throw for me or is this ok? i think its great but ive been wrong before thanks in advance.

[wwbirds]

Had a hunting partner 30 years ago in Northern ontario who refused to spend money on bumpers and trained his lab on empty pop cans. Shot a drake woodie opening day on Vermillion Lake in the wild rice paddies. Guess what the dog brought back? 7 up!

Seadog
Dogs will generally work as far as they are used to being thrown so yes it is a good idea to have someone throw for you at 100 + yards on both land and water. Memory in dogs is a big factor so if they have only been trained to retrieve 40 yards it is tough to get them to go out farther. Introduce a small calibre and build up to 12 gauge and over time move it closer so dog associates gun fire with a bird being thrown. I use real birds for this not dummies.

p.s by showing dog the fall and sending her for it after you return you are technically training with sight blinds. Marks would have a gun in the field to associate the distance to the gun (fall). You are somewhat training the dog to line and retrieve blinds. I use the dogs name to release for marks and "back" to release for blinds so the dog can differentiate between the two. Over time cueing the dog with subtle cues can work wonders.

Working a clients 8 month yellow lab from Ohio and having great fun now that the retrieving is trained and handling well started. Hide a pheasant and chukar in a 1 inch mesh cat crate in long grass and send the pup out to "hie on" lets "go find" "birds". Pup is having a great time using her nose and this is prime upland game bird training. Lots of encouragement everytime she finds the birds and she is getting "higher" on the "go find birds" command every day.
Won't be long now!

[Elk Chaser]

wwbirds

Did you live in Sioux Lookout, Hudson or Dryden? Big Vermillion had nice looking lake trout, pike and bass and little Vermillion had a provincial park on it plus the fish in it.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by SEADOG

Make sense,good advice.been wondering about this for a whil;e now hopefully you can advise? my dog willl sit and stay while i walk out say 100 yrds or more throw the bumpers walk back to her and then release her, shell do fine with 2 bumpers still not quite at triples yet! my question is, should i be having someelse throw for me or is this ok? i think its great but ive been wrong before thanks in advance.

It depends on what you want to train the dog to do. Some times we don't have the luxury of having someone to throw for us and we have to improvise.
While what you are doing is not true marks there is a lot of benefit to the exercise.

WW Birds is correct. You are really doing the early training of blind work.

The positive stuff I see from what you are doing without knowing the breed or age of your dog:

You are spending time with your dog
Reinforcing the sit and steady.
The dog is going to 'mark' the falls whether you call it a blind or a mark.
He will remember more than one bird.
Your dog will 'take ' a line.
Your dog is already better trained than a lot of 'hunting' dogs.


Not doing triples makes me think the dog may be young or has not had this drill done a lot. Sometimes we get excited about successes in training as we should, but we have a tendency to then drive faster than the dog wants to go. A good trainer is always training just on the fine line at the top of the dog's ability to move on. Not so slow he loses interest, but not so fast he can't consistently grasp the concept and succeed on the exercise.

Cuing the dog to the exercise is important and can give you an advantage towards success.

When I Force fetch my dog I use a bench. When I send him up onto the bench it tells him we are here to work, cause that is what we do. When we walk into the kennel room and he jumps onto the bench on his own, that tells me he wants to work and that we must be doing something right.

If I have a 'gunner', I cue the dog softly with 'mark'. He then knows to watch for a thrown or shot bird. I send him on his name.

If it is a blind,then I cue the dog with 'dead bird'. He then knows that he won't see the bird and must TRUST me to put him on the bird. I line him up on the 'dead bird' and send him on 'back'. He should take that line and stay on it till he gets to the bird. This is where stretching the dog's POV is important. 40 yard birds in training will get you 40 yard birds in the field.

Of course to do blinds your dog must be trained to sit on the whistle and respond to hand signals.

Remember they are not as smart as we think they are and not as dimwitted either. On any given day they will surprise you.

Doing blinds effectively takes many hours of training on a dog with some maturity. If you end up with a dog who wants to creep on a blind because he is excited, or hits the big water like he is on fire to do the water blind, then you've done some good work.

[SEADOG]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

It depends on what you want to train the dog to do. Some times we don't have the luxury of having someone to throw for us and we have to improvise.
While what you are doing is not true marks there is a lot of benefit to the exercise.

WW Birds is correct. You are really doing the early training of blind work.


The positive stuff I see from what you are doing without knowing the breed or age of your dog:

You are spending time with your dog
Reinforcing the sit and steady.
The dog is going to 'mark' the falls whether you call it a blind or a mark.
He will remember more than one bird.
Your dog will 'take ' a line.
Your dog is already better trained than a lot of 'hunting' dogs.


Not doing triples makes me think the dog may be young or has not had this drill done a lot. Sometimes we get excited about successes in training as we should, but we have a tendency to then drive faster than the dog wants to go. A good trainer is always training just on the fine line at the top of the dog's ability to move on. Not so slow he loses interest, but not so fast he can't consistently grasp the concept and succeed on the exercise.

Cuing the dog to the exercise is important and can give you an advantage towards success.

When I Force fetch my dog I use a bench. When I send him up onto the bench it tells him we are here to work, cause that is what we do. When we walk into the kennel room and he jumps onto the bench on his own, that tells me he wants to work and that we must be doing something right.

If I have a 'gunner', I cue the dog softly with 'mark'. He then knows to watch for a thrown or shot bird. I send him on his name.

If it is a blind,then I cue the dog with 'dead bird'. He then knows that he won't see the bird and must TRUST me to put him on the bird. I line him up on the 'dead bird' and send him on 'back'. He should take that line and stay on it till he gets to the bird. This is where stretching the dog's POV is important. 40 yard birds in training will get you 40 yard birds in the field.

Of course to do blinds your dog must be trained to sit on the whistle and respond to hand signals.

Remember they are not as smart as we think they are and not as dimwitted either. On any given day they will surprise you.

Doing blinds effectively takes many hours of training on a dog with some maturity. If you end up with a dog who wants to creep on a blind because he is excited, or hits the big water like he is on fire to do the water blind, then you've done some good work.

THANKS guYS!!

its a 20mth old albrador retriever that i got from trailrunnners in sask. she was obediance, fetch on command tarined and had some field training done when she was 9mths old. ive been working with her myself atleat 2-3 times a week since. i basically what her to be able to mark dead birds and retrieve them for me. if theres more than three down or she doent see them all fall shell have to be gettin them too!! i am training her to retrieve in tall grass right now as she has the doulbes in short grass/water over a gun figured out. im still have to re line her on triples tho. last season whle i did not get out as much as i wanted she diid get some birds not as steady as i would have liked but imm happy with her steadyness right now.


well be working on bnlinds in the near futeure but i would like to have the marks at 100 percect first. up to three birds. im open to constructive critisim!! note: this is my first dog so not too harsh.. thanks again

[Redfrog]

At 20 months she sounds like she is doing well. Sometimes they need to mature to fully understand a concept.
In a field trial at that age the test is doubles. land or water. I've onlty seen triples a couple times and that was because the entries were very good and they needed some thing tougher to separate the dogs.

Starting a dog at 20 mos. to seriously do blinds can be a challenge, depending on what you've done before. I'm not saying it isn't done, I will have mine doing blinds at that age but some dogs have trouble with blinds and the trainer puts more pressure on the dog when he would get better results going a little slower. Make sure he knows the drill before you move on to the next step. That means he takes a line or a whistle or a hand cast every time you ask for it. We sometimes accept "good enough" and that is big mistake on blinds. Do it till it's boringly perfect then move on. you won't regret it.

Forget any time table you have in your mind and work to the dogs ability.
I like a dog to enjoy the work and still have some dog left at the end of a long hard day.

[wwbirds]

As Jim says blinds can be tough for some dogs if left to the second year of training. I use sight blinds, wagon wheels as well as the only handling command I teach a young dog and that is "back". I use the same destination for the sight blind as the back but sit the dog facing away from where I have planted a bird. On a check cord I go to full extension away from the dog and raising my hand I yell "back". In trials we teach the dog to turn left if left arm is raised and right if right arm is raised. also angle backs are distinguished from straight backs. I don't do any overs with a young dog as I feel it affects their marking and results in "popping" where they look for help prematurely on a mark they should know.
Jim has hit the nail on the head by constantly challenging a dog to keep them fresh, spirited and interested whille not doing the same mundane things over and over until the dog loses interest.
This 8 month old lab gets more excited about retrieving each day.
A little obedience, a few marks, little bit of handling, some go find and they are spirited and looking forward to each session. I always quit when they still want more! Lots of happys and praise for a young dog works miracles.
Fun for dog and handler forms that special bond.

[SEADOG]

some good points for me too build on! just a few weeks and ill see how she performs. ill post some pics of her soon