need some advice from an electrician.. anyone?

LacLaBicheNS · #1 08-17-2011, 01:29 PM

Bought a house in the spring. The original part of the house is 50 years old, but than in the 90's an addition and renos were done. The entire house is up to code (had it inspected before bought it). The eletrical was done well and right. New breakers installed as well.

The situation below has happened twice since I moved in

In the new part of the house the power goes out. Not in the entire new part, but a ceiling fan, and a few outlets... The first time it happend I couldn't find the breaker that went because they were not labbeled and no breaker was flipped. So I narrowed down which breaker controlled the outlets that were down. Than I gave it a couple flips. Nothing..

So I took that break out and switched it with a breaker I knew worked thinking the breaker was gone bad. This was my reasoning because the breaker never flipped when the power went out. When I swithced the breakers to put in one I knew worked, still no power to those outlets.

I went around and un plugged everythign that was in a outlet that didn't work. Then I flipped the breaker a few times and everythign worked. I plugged everything back in and haven't had a problem until today.

The same thing happened today. The same outlets won't work and no breaker was flipped. I repeated the entire process (made sure breaker work, flipped the breaker a bunch, un plugged everything and flipped again). Nothing is working now.

Whats my problem??

I KNOW the breaker is good.

Nothing that draws a lot of power was turned on when this happened during either time.

I know the breaker won't work until the short or whatever was drawing lots of power is fixed. But like I said, nothing is drawing lots of power and eventually last time I got it working just by un plugging everything and flipped the breaker.. So I don't think there is a short??

Should I try replacing all affected outlets?? I replaced one already because the plugg would fall out of the outlet because it was loose... Keep in mind everything was new in the late 90's so its not like its 50 years old..

Any suggestiins in short of calling the electriction would be helpful .. I will call one once I have exhuasted all my options and replaced the breaker, the outlets etc..

The one thing I don't understand which is probably related to my problem is that my breaker didn't flipped each time this happened.

dale7637 · #2 08-17-2011, 01:39 PM

I am no electrician, but it sounds to me like you have an intermittent open in the circuit somewhere. Could be something shifting or moving that causes the circuit to open up? Broken wire maybe?

Typical · #3 08-17-2011, 01:51 PM

It could be severals things, Number one you could have a loose neutral, onmce you have located the device that has no power you would have to check all devices on the same circuit and check to see if you have a neutral that is undone or loose. First of all check all your neutral in the main panel, then go to the cuicuit that is not working.

If this is not the problem, If you have an overhead service to your house call your power company so they can check the fuse at the top of the poll. Those fuses often go bad .

If this is not the problem , check if both phases in your panel are working. The easiest way to check this out , is all your elements and your oven working properly, if not then one phase in your panel is out. Sometimes this happen when people move breakers around in the panel.

If al fail call an electrican

Hope this will help you.

LacLaBicheNS · #4 08-17-2011, 01:59 PM

Good news...Its back on... I will type out the things I did to get it back on to and see if that can help discover the problem

I have suspicion of an outlet that was causing the problem. I suspected it because there is a power bar with all our home theatre stuff going in to it. Last time I got the power to work I remmeber onve I unplugged everying from this outlet the power came back on. So 10 mins ago I pulled apart that outlet. I left the wires sticking out of the wall not touching and laid the outlet itself on the floor un connected. I fllipped the breaker and nothing happened. Stumped, I re connected the outlet and screwed it back to the wall. Once I flipped the breaker again, the power came back on.. What the hell is happening here lol??

somehting else that might be part of the issue issue... I forgot to add, the breaker on our power pole has also been flipping out on us causeing the whole house to loose power. Happened 3 times in a month and a half. Could this be related?

whats a intermittent open in the circuit ??

horsetrader · #5 08-17-2011, 02:00 PM

We have problem similar to that when dealing with aluminum wire you will lose connection and you will lose power to what ever follows after that device in that circuit check all wire connection to plugs and switches in that circuit

LacLaBicheNS · #6 08-17-2011, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typical

It could be severals things, Number one you could have a loose neutral, onmce you have located the device that has no power you would have to check all devices on the same circuit and check to see if you have a neutral that is undone or loose. First of all check all your neutral in the main panel, then go to the cuicuit that is not working.

If this is not the problem, If you have an overhead service to your house call your power company so they can check the fuse at the top of the poll. Those fuses often go bad .

If this is not the problem , check if both phases in your panel are working. The easiest way to check this out , is all your elements and your oven working properly, if not then one phase in your panel is out. Sometimes this happen when people move breakers around in the panel.

If al fail call an electrican

Hope this will help you.

I checked the outlets, no loose wires.. I tightened the nuetral on the breaker box, but it was really tight anyways. I don't think the screw driver budged at all..

I think it might be the power pole like you suggest.. I am calling in a minute..

my over works fine.. just checked..

benamen · #7 08-17-2011, 03:08 PM

Not sure if a tool like this might help you track down the problems.
Just thinking that if you had a problem with the overhead feed, it would affect every breaker and circuit on the one side of your elec. panel. Might be a loose wire in one of the pig tails.
Good luck.

kmacisaac · #8 08-17-2011, 04:00 PM

It sounds like you have a loose neutral or a bad splice as mentioned above. To check the wiring you could meter the wire out with a meter that will read ohms. Take the hot(black or red usually) and the white wires and twist the copper ends together on the panel end. Just make sure the panel is not live while doing this. Then go to each outlet starting at the one closest to the panel and stick the black lead in one side of the outlet and the red lead in the other. If all is good you should make a loop and get a numbered reading or a beep. Continue on to each outlet until you find your problem area.
If you're in Calgary, I can give you a hand or lend you a meter. If not, you can always get a cheap meter at Canadian Tire or Princess Auto. As long as it has an ohm value or the horse shoe symbol on it.

CaberTosser · #9 08-17-2011, 07:00 PM

I've had ones where one of the wire nuts worked itself loose and the thing would basically short at random. This was at a customers house who called us to replace their garburetor. After installing the new one and attempting to test it I traced the problem to the counter switch, where the fallen-off marrette was located. They then wanted the old garb reinstalled as they now found out why it wasn't working; would have been nice for them to request me to troubleshoot it first

My old house from the 50's had copper wire in the original upstairs wiring, but the basement development was all aluminum. That stuff I hate, so it all came out. During demolition my sawzall was acting funny, then I saw sparks at the exposed outlet I was plugged into. I put my meter to the outlet and was reading 88 volts

Aluminum wiring can be OK, but you have to coat any exposed aluminum with anti-oxidant to prevent corrosion and the resulting voltage drop. The wire is also more prone to breaking as it cannot be bent back and forth as often as copper without tearing. The new electrical main to my new house is aluminum ( though the ground portion of it is copper), so you'll note it's still used, but generally for larger gauge installations.

nick0danger · #10 08-17-2011, 08:00 PM

Sounds like a neutral issue to me. (which could be the problem i have at work now that i think of it) Also the power bar could be the issues, but sounds like a F'ed neutral. That said if it is i would not be plugging anything expensive into that plug.

Nick

Willowtrail · #11 08-17-2011, 10:22 PM

Are there any lights on your circuit and did you check those if so. Remember the switches too.

When you disconnected your switch it was probably the first item on your circuit so the rest didn't turn on because they were not cannected anymore. Maybe replace that receptacle if it wasn't the one you re did.

Are your wires screwed in on the screws or pushed in the back of the plugs?

My buddy had your issues in a new house and pulled out the push in connections and screwed them on and all was well.

LacLaBicheNS · #12 08-18-2011, 12:48 AM

thanks for the help. The power is working now like I stated. I am going to be checking everything you guys mentioned. Wont take me long, so I might as well. And I will be replacing lights and switched (about 50$ for peace of mind).. If nothign works a OA member who a electrician by trade said I coudl call him and try to trouble shoot over the phone which I greatly appriciated and I can't recall his name right now though lol..

cheers

Kim473 · #13 08-18-2011, 04:49 AM

You could have one of two problems. As mentioned before a wire has come lose or broken in one of the conections, or a nail was put into one of the wires when the drywall was installed. Check all conections first. If that does not solve the problem then you will have fun trying to find which wire has the nail in it. Take all the splices completly apart and resplice them. Also the newer plugs have little holes in the back of them that some people use that you push the wires in to make the conection, they use this cause its faster and easyer than twisting the wires around the screw on the plug. Never use these. Allways twist the wires around the screw on the plugs and switches, makes for a better conection. I have found a failer cause of this more than a few times. Chances are that is the problem. Because of a bad conection like this or you have it is a fire hazard so get it solved sooner than later. Have seen inside a few boxes where a fire was about to start big time, all black and smoky inside the box. And these were due to a bad splice and copper wire. Aluminum is the worst tho.

glen1971 · #14 08-18-2011, 06:08 AM

Do you have copper (yellowish color) wire or aluminum wire? If the two are mixed, that joint could be an issue.
Are the plugs in good condition? None broken.. Cracked..

Do you have an electrical meter? If you do, check the voltages today, while it is working from the smaller prong (hot) on the outlet to the larger prong (neutral) AND the smaller prong (hot) to the ground. There should be 120(ish) volts on both. The next time it goes out, don't reset the breaker. Check voltages first. If you have 0 volts between the hot and the neutral, BUT 120 volts between the hot and the ground, you have a loose neutral. That can be a loose splice in a marrette, or in the back of the plug. What lots of guys do is use the push in slots in the back of the plugs for all the connections. It is cheaper and quicker to do - saves 2 marrettes ($0.05 each) and maybe 10 minutes.. If you have no volts, don't give up.. The problem can be anywhere in the group of receptacles fed by the breaker (first or the tenth). You should check them all...

Personally, if you know what plugs in the house are on that breaker, I would shut the breaker off, and redo all of the splices... Make a "pigtail" with the hots and one for the neutrals. This does two things... One, there is only one connection to the plug in, under the screws on the sides (better connection). Secondly, if one plug fails or is removed, everything from that one on keeps working.

The fuse on the pole falling out and your breaker in the house aren't related. The utility could have a weak holder...

GaryF · #15 08-21-2011, 01:11 AM

I would call an electician to come to your house and find the problem for you. Besides risking getting shocked, if you screw something up and start a fire, your insurance won't cover you. I know everyone on here means well, but you're not trained to be an electrician and getting advice over the internet or phone is a bad idea. You wouldn't be asking how to tear down a motor because of bad knocks and stalling would you? Why risk your house and safety to save a few bucks.

So Nova *!% · #16 08-21-2011, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryF

I would call an electician to come to your house and find the problem for you. Besides risking getting shocked, if you screw something up and start a fire, your insurance won't cover you. I know everyone on here means well, but you're not trained to be an electrician and getting advice over the internet or phone is a bad idea. You wouldn't be asking how to tear down a motor because of bad knocks and stalling would you? Why risk your house and safety to save a few bucks.

Gary is right.
one thing no one has mentioned is some breakers will not trip on dead short( at least the handle wont move) this can be from a hot wire on a plug(or switch) touching the side of the bonded(grounded) box.
I mention plug first because people plug in and un plug devices regularly if the plug isn't firmly attached to the wall and box it can(and will) move possibly allowing contact with the side of the box.

Get yourself an electrician,don't complain about his rate,enjoy the peace of mind that he will do a good job(get his references)and your house wont burn down because of an electrical fire.

Grizzly Adams · #17 08-21-2011, 08:42 AM

Most mysterious electrical problem I've encountered. Blew a breaker in a trailer addition. Couldn't find the offender. An hour later, finally found, some genius had run an extension cord back to the exterior hook up and connected it.

Older houses, just about anything is possible. Pro time.

Grizz

winged1 · #18 08-21-2011, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim473

You could have one of two problems. As mentioned before a wire has come lose or broken in one of the conections, or a nail was put into one of the wires when the drywall was installed. Check all conections first. If that does not solve the problem then you will have fun trying to find which wire has the nail in it. Take all the splices completly apart and resplice them. Also the newer plugs have little holes in the back of them that some people use that you push the wires in to make the conection, they use this cause its faster and easyer than twisting the wires around the screw on the plug. Never use these. Allways twist the wires around the screw on the plugs and switches, makes for a better conection. I have found a failer cause of this more than a few times. Chances are that is the problem. Because of a bad conection like this or you have it is a fire hazard so get it solved sooner than later. Have seen inside a few boxes where a fire was about to start big time, all black and smoky inside the box. And these were due to a bad splice and copper wire. Aluminum is the worst tho.

x2

I've often seen where the push in connection is used in mid circuit. Bad business. Mid circuit connections require an additional wire for the receptacle to be marette'd in, to maintain branch continuity if that one receptacle is disconnected. Your problem likely lies at the last working device on that branch, or if it's a nail, shortly there after.