...............

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Success rate, success rate, success rate......

not judging you or anything but I am guessing yours is a shade below 0

[Icefisher2885]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

I believe by having the opportunity to go to Canadian tire every year and buy a mule buck tag and hunt said mule buck every year on a general tag is quite the opportunity that unfortunate rifle hunters did not get that luxury

This is ludicrous. Rifle hunters DID have the opportunity to hunt every year - its called take up bowhunting. The fact that they willingly CHOSE not to take that opportunity is their problem. Just because they CHOSE not to accept the opportunity that was presented to them does mean that they should try to take that same opportunity away from people who DID accept that opportunity. Contrary to what I read from you over and over, the opportunity that you so frequently mention was there for everybody to exercise. WILLINGLY choosing not to take an opportunity is NOT equal to LACK of opportunity.

Further, it is just silly to not look at effectiveness and harvest rates per weapon - it just is. In any given year, as has been established, bowhunters province wide are taking LESS than 15% of all mule deer harvested in this province. That means that the "unfortunate" rifle hunters that you mention take approximately 7 deer for every 1 that a bowhunter takes. To ignore this or say that it should not be considered is just being stubborn and hard headed.

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by Icefisher2885

This is ludicrous. Rifle hunters DID have the opportunity to hunt every year - its called take up bowhunting. The fact that they willingly CHOSE not to take that opportunity is their problem. Just because they CHOSE not to accept the opportunity that was presented to them does mean that they should try to take that same opportunity away from people who DID accept that opportunity. Contrary to what I read from you over and over, the opportunity that you so frequently mention was there for everybody to exercise. WILLINGLY choosing not to take an opportunity is NOT equal to LACK of opportunity.

good luck in the draw. Hope you have lots a crown land to hunt on because by telling rifle hunters to go buy a bow, whether capable of using it or not, and just start slinging arrows at deer is the sole reason why 95% of landowners are fed up with and locking the gates for bow hunters. So how many general tags would have been sold if every rifle hunter went and bought a general mule tag? Wonder why you would want that. You obviously don't care about the animal, just as long as you don't miss out on a year of hunting one. Pathetic you are.

[Icefisher2885]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

good luck in the draw. Hope you have lots a crown land to hunt on because by telling rifle hunters to go buy a bow, whether capable of using it or not, and just start slinging arrows at deer is the sole reason why 95% of landowners are fed up with and locking the gates for bow hunters. So how many general tags would have been sold if every rifle hunter went and bought a general mule tag? Wonder why you would want that. You obviously don't care about the animal, just as long as you don't miss out on a year of hunting one. Pathetic you are.

Fantastic rebuttal to my legitimate argument - that was a logical masterpiece. Please continue to ignore the FACT that WILLING CHOOSING not to accept an opportunity is not the same as a LACK of opportunity. Of course you would never do that, you would rather continue arguing with strawmen and red herrings - typical of people who have no real rebuttal.

[Icefisher2885]

And if you could indicate anywhere that I even alluded to "having every rifle hunter buy a bow and sling arrows whether capable or not", I will literally lick your boots and allow you to take a picture to post on the forum. I'm clearly outmatched and outwitted by your sensational logical structure, I had best bow out.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

not judging you or anything but I am guessing yours is a shade below 0

LOL...that's it?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

You obviously don't care about the animal, just as long as you don't miss out on a year of hunting one. Pathetic you are.

Whoa there...aren't you the guy stating hunting is about opportunity and not SUCCESS....??

....and you calling a guy pathetic....wow that is just not very polite....

Originally Posted by Rhino81

If I hear the word success rate again I'm going to lose it. It is all about opportunity to hunt, not whether your talented enough to actually kill something with your bow or not.

Hunting an animal and harvesting one are two separate things...seeing as you are a landowner and a guide....you have endless opportunity to hunt right? ....kinda hard to give someone a hard time about wanting the opportunity to hunt ....isn't it?

LC

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by Icefisher2885

And if you could indicate anywhere that I even alluded to "having every rifle hunter buy a bow and sling arrows whether capable or not", I will literally lick your boots and allow you to take a picture to post on the forum. I'm clearly outmatched and outwitted by your sensational logical structure, I had best bow out.

pretty sure the government also thinks that by allowing bow hunters the opportunity to harvest a mule deer every year is also ludicrous. Hence them putting it on draw. But you seem pretty smart, you probably already realized that didn't.

[Icefisher2885]

Red herring is an English-language idiom that commonly refers to a logical fallacy that misleads or detracts from the actual issue

Aka, this:
"So how many general tags would have been sold if every rifle hunter went and bought a general mule tag? Wonder why you would want that. You obviously don't care about the animal, just as long as you don't miss out on a year of hunting one"

A straw man or straw person, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position

Aka, this:
"Hope you have lots a crown land to hunt on because by telling rifle hunters to go buy a bow, whether capable of using it or not, and just start slinging arrows at deer"

Oh, and an abusive ad hominem just for good measure:

"Pathetic you are."

Man, you are a logical and debating rockstar. And you wonder why you can never make any ground with people around here…

So please, now that we are clear as to what my argument was, that being that lack of opportunity is not equivalent to willingly choosing to not engage in an opportunity, please tell me how I am wrong. Given that you have repeatedly beat the drum of the lack of opportunity for rifle hunter argument, I am eager to hear your response.

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Whoa there...aren't you the guy stating hunting is about opportunity and not SUCCESS....??

....and you calling a guy pathetic....wow that is just not very polite....



Hunting an animal and harvesting one are two separate things...seeing as you are a landowner and a guide....you have endless opportunity to hunt right? ....kinda hard to give someone a hard time about wanting the opportunity to hunt ....isn't it?

LC

equal opportunity for residents lefty. I didn't say a word about success rate versus hunting opportunity. Go spend the money on some land, attempt to grow a crop and make a living on it just to have 100 head of mule deer to help themselves every day and night, then you to will be able to apply for a tag to harvest one of those critters if you so choose.

[Icefisher2885]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

pretty sure the government also thinks that by allowing bow hunters the opportunity to harvest a mule deer every year is also ludicrous. Hence them putting it on draw. But you seem pretty smart, you probably already realized that didn't.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong. I'm reasonably sure that the government thinks that allowing bow hunters to take MORE than 15% of the PROVINCE WIDE harvest is wrong. What else is wrong is that the government is not using WMU allocations to determine the allocation number for outfitter tags, but they use it to apply restrictions to other user groups. Given that bow hunters are taking LESS than 15% of the total harvest province wide, I would submit the government is not adhering to its own policy, at least not down to the letter. That is not the proper way to deal in statistics.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

equal opportunity for residents lefty. I didn't say a word about success rate versus hunting opportunity. Go spend the money on some land, attempt to grow a crop and make a living on it just to have 100 head of mule deer to help themselves every day and night, then you to will be able to apply for a tag to harvest one of those critters if you so choose.

Actually I have friends that are land owners that I assist with thinning herds of deer and elk on their lands.....

....and if there are issues with 100 mule deer eating people crops then why are they going on draw for archers? and why aren't the landowners giving permission to those hunters who ask?

LC

[Couleestalker]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

Go spend the money on some land, attempt to grow a crop and make a living on it just to have 100 head of mule deer to help themselves every day and night,

You and packhuntr must be living in 2 different Albertas

[Icefisher2885]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

equal opportunity for residents lefty. I didn't say a word about success rate versus hunting opportunity. Go spend the money on some land, attempt to grow a crop and make a living on it just to have 100 head of mule deer to help themselves every day and night, then you to will be able to apply for a tag to harvest one of those critters if you so choose.

So what you are saying is equal opportunity for residents, unless you own land and can "harvest one of those critters" with a rifle every year if you so choose. I only point this out because landowners who have landowner tags are eligible to use the rifle to fill their yearly tag, if they chose to obtain it - I have no gripe about landowner tags, myself. Just clarifying what you said in this post is all.

[Lefty-Canuck]

....we are just going to have to wait for the reply....

LC

[Deer Hunter]

Well I got a reply to my letters. AFGA was kind enough to send me an entire magazine!

[Pudelpointer]

Oh my.

Bowhunter102, 3Rivers, now Rhino81....

Running out of people to argue with.... oh wait! Jryley is still around... I think; I'll go check.

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by Rhino81

judging by your name this is going to be quite simple for me to explain. I believe by having the opportunity to go to Canadian tire every year and buy a mule buck tag and hunt said mule buck every year on a general tag is quite the opportunity that unfortunate rifle hunters did not get that luxury. If I hear the word success rate again I'm going to lose it. It is all about opportunity to hunt, not whether your talented enough to actually kill something with your bow or not. You choose to hunt with that weapon so deal with the equality that will soon present its self. It is about time that residents are all on the same playing field.


Que..non resident attack!!

Unless of course your a non-resident alien rifle hunter.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Oh my.

Bowhunter102, 3Rivers, now Rhino81....

Running out of people to argue with.... oh wait! Jryley is still around... I think; I'll go check.

Except Jryley firmly believes this draw has something to do with SRD wanting to recover our herds lol. You get no argument from him lol