Hunting using E-bikes, sheep hunt

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Hey all, it's been a while since my last post on here. We've been spending lots of time away from computers!

If any of you are curious about using E-bikes to access hunting spots, we just released a podcast episode on our week long sheep trip where we used fat tire e-bikes.
They're a game changer for certain areas for sure.

Hope you like it.
Cheers.
John
www.highlanderhunting.podbean.com

[Headdamage]

Yep, I'm interested and when I asked forestry about it they said they are covered by ATV bans in some areas. Seem a bit confusing figuring out where you can and can't use them.

[Okotokian]

I imagine you can use an e-bike anywhere you can use a bike. There is no combustion engine, no spark. It's just an electric assist to your pedaling. I used one for a few days in Europe when I damaged my knee on a regular bike. They are great! Pedalling uphill in a headwind and it can feel like you are pedaling downhill in calm weather. Definitely one in my future. I had a street one. A mountain e-bike would be amazing. And they are only going to get lighter and have even better range, but I could do 60 km in a day and have tons of battery left over.

[MathewsArcher]

For what its worth I asked the same question of an AEP Public Lands Officer and was told it fit the definition of an OHV and was told that it would fall under the same restriction for use etc.


“off-highway vehicle” means any motorized mode of
transportation built for cross-country travel on land, water,
snow, ice or marsh or swamp land or on other natural
terrain and, without limiting the generality of the
foregoing, includes, when specifically designed for such
travel,
(i) 4-wheel drive vehicles,
(ii) low pressure tire vehicles,
(iii) motorcycles and related 2-wheel vehicles,
(iv) amphibious machines,
(v) all terrain vehicles,
(vi) miniature motor vehicles,
(vii) snow vehicles,
(viii) minibikes, and
(ix) any other means of transportation that is propelled by
any power other than muscular power or wind,
but does not include
(x) motor boats, or
(xi) any other vehicle exempted from being an offhighway
vehicle by regulation;

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I imagine you can use an e-bike anywhere you can use a bike. There is no combustion engine, no spark. It's just an electric assist to your pedaling. I used one for a few days in Europe when I damaged my knee on a regular bike. They are great! Pedalling uphill in a headwind and it can feel like you are pedaling downhill in calm weather. Definitely one in my future. I had a street one. A mountain e-bike would be amazing. And they are only going to get lighter and have even better range, but I could do 60 km in a day and have tons of battery left over.

If it has an electric motor to provide propulsion , then it is likely going to be considered to be a motor vehicle.

[Okotokian]

I don't think an e-bike qualifies as an OHV. They don't require registration, insurance ,lights, etc. Also, OHV's are not allowed on roadways. e-bikes obviously are. They also aren't "specifically designed" for "cross-county travel". Still, a bit unclear.

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...PowerBikes.pdf

[timsesink]

I think this pretty clearly defines E-Bikes as OHV's in law.

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

For what its worth I asked the same question of an AEP Public Lands Officer and was told it fit the definition of an OHV and was told that it would fall under the same restriction for use etc.


“off-highway vehicle” means any motorized mode of
transportation built for cross-country travel on land, water,
snow, ice or marsh or swamp land or on other natural
terrain and, without limiting the generality of the
foregoing, includes, when specifically designed for such
travel,
(i) 4-wheel drive vehicles,
(ii) low pressure tire vehicles,
(iii) motorcycles and related 2-wheel vehicles,
(iv) amphibious machines,
(v) all terrain vehicles,
(vi) miniature motor vehicles,
(vii) snow vehicles,
(viii) minibikes, and
(ix) any other means of transportation that is propelled by
any power other than muscular power or wind,
but does not include
(x) motor boats, or
(xi) any other vehicle exempted from being an offhighway
vehicle by regulation;

[Stinky Buffalo]

The key words being "muscular power" - Some e-bikes still require muscular power to operate; the motor is there only to "assist" the operator's pedaling motion.

It will be interesting to see if they eventually add some clarification to the law to cover these kinds of bikes.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by timsesink

I think this pretty clearly defines E-Bikes as OHV's in law.

Think I have to disagree with you there.

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...klet_final.pdf

e-bike is not an OHV. They are two different categories. Plus you are highlighting the wrong parts. An OHV is specifically designed for cross country use. Says so right in your quote. An e-bike is not. Authorities may ban an e-bike, but they can't say it's banned because it's an OHV. It specifically is not.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

While at the last Calgary sportsman show I decided to ask the c.o's. Neither of them knew, so one took my phone number.
A week later I got a call from him. He said he asked his supervisor who said they arent considered motor vehicles.

He ended the call by saying if he saw someone in sheep country on any bike, he would likley give them a high 5 and not a fine.

One thing to keep in mind about these bikes is that they are pedal assist. You have to pedal the whole time, otherwise the motor wont engage. Also, the most common motor size for crank drive is 350W. In the US I believe anything less than 500W gets treated as a bicycle.

Another point is that they can't go anywhere like a dirt bike.
We did some Summer scouting and I was on my mtn bike and my hunting partner was on a e bike. We took a long horse trail up above the tree line and was a suffer fest for both of us. More so for me, but he had no free ride.
They also weigh in at over 50 lbs, not including any extra batteries.

[doughgoat]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

The key words being "muscular power" - Some e-bikes still require muscular power to operate; the motor is there only to "assist" the operator's pedaling motion.

It will be interesting to see if they eventually add some clarification to the law to cover these kinds of bikes.

So my dirt bike that requires me to push it down a hill before jumping on and starting the ignition is allowed on these trails..? Your logic makes zero sense, it has a motor therefore it is a motorized vehicle and should not be allowed.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by doughgoat

So my dirt bike that requires me to push it down a hill before jumping on and starting the ignition is allowed on these trails..? Your logic makes zero sense, it has a motor therefore it is a motorized vehicle and should not be allowed.

"No pedaling" = "E-bike no move".

Simple.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

"No pedaling" = "E-bike no move".

Simple.

Yup. And that seems to be the position the Ab gov't has taken so far.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

I'd even be interested in getting a fat tire conventional bike. On that sheep trip I had the fat tire e bike going 40 km/h down hill on 3" plus of crusted snow. No motor being used at all.
Whenever i looked down and saw speeds over around 30 km/h i"d slow down just for safety's sake, but they sure handle the snow great.

There's still some good parts in the podcast, so give a listen. Lol.

Cheers.
John
highlanderhunting.podbean.com
search Highlander Hunting on Itunes and Google Play

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by doughgoat

So my dirt bike that requires me to push it down a hill before jumping on and starting the ignition is allowed on these trails..? Your logic makes zero sense, it has a motor therefore it is a motorized vehicle and should not be allowed.

Try one and then tell me it's a motor vehicle.

[Headdamage]

To be clear I have an e bike that I used to use to commute to work in downtown Calgary. It is no longer allowed on the bike paths because it can be used with or without peddling and it does clip along at 30 kph without peddling on the flat quite nicely. Really it should be considered a moped and is under some parts of the law.

I had a good talk with a government rep earlier this year about what is and is not a OHV and an ebike is an OHV when used as such. Peddle assist ebikes (as in no motor assist unless you are peddling) are allowed on Calgary bike paths but is also still considered motorized under the definition of an OHV.

If an area is posted on OHV that technically covers ebikes as well. The question is if someone will object or not. I was asking because I wanted to use it in WMU 406 which is mostly no OHV.

[Big Sky]

I made several calls this spring regarding 'pedal assist' bikes.

Several of the people I spoke with had to check with someone else because the info was not on their website and not readily available to them. A pretty common comment was that the technology was new and that websites are going to need updating.

Short summary of responses.

City of Calgary - 'pedal assist' bikes are allowed on the pathways. E-bikes that do not need to be pedaled have to be on the road.

Fish Creek PP - No e-bikes of any type are allowed even though Fish Creek PP is within the City of Calgary. The person said that this was the rule for all Provincial Parks.

Peter Lougheed PP - no e-bikes of any type allowed. They also said that this was the rule for all PP.

K-Country - no e-bikes of any type allowed except within areas that allow OHV such as McLean Creek.

Canmore Nordic Centre - no e-bikes of any type

Bow-Crow Forest - same rules as OHV

Several of the people I spoke with commented that they wouldn't be surprised to see some changes as e-bikes become more common.

[tswg]

Not all e-bikes require you to pedal for the motor to engage. There are many different versions of e-motors, and because of that, I think there needs to be clearer regulations on the subject.

As a 'regular' fatbiker, I'm somewhat torn on the subject. I'm not a big fan of motorized vehicles (which is what they are) on non-utv trails, but at the moment they aren't really a problem so I'm not too worried about them. Also,
I know I'll probably be needing a motor assist within a few years!

Once these things get popular though, and ATV bans become more province-wide (which you know is coming too), you can bet you'll see more of them out there and pretty soon there will need to be more clarity on the issue.

Also, I wouldn't recommend buying/riding one out into the backcountry if you aren't capable of riding it out without the battery power. 4" tires and a 50 lb bike (plus all your gear!) and it's a heart attack waiting to happen.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Headdamage

It is no longer allowed on the bike paths because it can be used with or without peddling and it does clip along at 30 kph without peddling on the flat quite nicely. .

I think we are talking about different bikes. Not sure what yours is, but the ones we are talking about MUST be pedaled. Stop pedaling and you will glide to a stop, just like any normal bicycle.

[.257Weatherby]

Originally Posted by timsesink

I think this pretty clearly defines E-Bikes as OHV's in law.

Yup, section iii for sure and is as well.
Bases covered, but this of course is taking away from the original intent of the thread.
Now, to go look at some interesting pictures.
Rob

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by tswg

Not all e-bikes require you to pedal for the motor to engage. There are many different versions of e-motors, and because of that, I think there needs to be clearer regulations on the subject.

As a 'regular' fatbiker, I'm somewhat torn on the subject. I'm not a big fan of motorized vehicles (which is what they are) on non-utv trails, but at the moment they aren't really a problem so I'm not too worried about them. Also,
I know I'll probably be needing a motor assist within a few years!

Once these things get popular though, and ATV bans become more province-wide (which you know is coming too), you can bet you'll see more of them out there and pretty soon there will need to be more clarity on the issue.

Also, I wouldn't recommend buying/riding one out into the backcountry if you aren't capable of riding it out without the battery power. 4" tires and a 50 lb bike (plus all your gear!) and it's a heart attack waiting to happen.

Agree with this. However, one really has to think about WHY certain vehicles are banned or not banned. An e-bike creates no more trail or other environmental damage than any mountain bike. It creates no noise or fumes to disturb wildlife. And it allows for those who are physically impaired or less fit to experience cycling in the outdoors. And that might be the key to objections.... A mountain biker's or hiker's reasoning for wanting e-bikes banned might boil down to not much more than "More space for me, keep it to myself", which isn't a sound reason to have anything banned.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Very interesting to hear people being given info that's opposite to what I was told by a srd officer.

I think people's idea of these bikes goes well beyond their capabilites, especially in hilly country. I really don't understand why they would get a ban in provincial parks as a whole. I can only imagine policy makers picturing people whizzing around on trails and causing safety issues for other riders.

But to treat them the same as an OHV is ridiculous.

Cheers.
John
highlanderhunting.podbean.com

[doughgoat]

Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING

Very interesting to hear people being given info that's opposite to what I was told by a srd officer.

I think people's idea of these bikes goes well beyond their capabilites, especially in hilly country. I really don't understand why they would get a ban in provincial parks as a whole. I can only imagine policy makers picturing people whizzing around on trails and causing safety issues for other riders.

But to treat them the same as an OHV is ridiculous.

Cheers.
John
highlanderhunting.podbean.com

How is that ridiculous? They have to draw the line somewhere.. At what speed does it become an OHV, at what level of "assist" does it become fully motorized? Well that would depend on your leg strength.. to much wiggle room. Those fat tire bikes have just as big of tire as some ATVs and will cause just as much destruction.

[tswg]

No fatbike, even with an e-motor, will cause the same damage as an ATV. A 40-50lb bike on 4 to 5" tires at less then 10 psi (I run at 6psi) has a similar footprint impact as someone walking the trail, and there's no spinning out.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by doughgoat

How is that ridiculous? They have to draw the line somewhere.. At what speed does it become an OHV, at what level of "assist" does it become fully motorized? Well that would depend on your leg strength.. to much wiggle room. Those fat tire bikes have just as big of tire as some ATVs and will cause just as much destruction.

You've never rode a pedal assist bike or a fat tire bike have you?

[Deer Hunter]

What's wrong with a plain old mountain bike? Too steep? Push it up...
Of course it's a motorized vehicle. There is a motor in it.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

[QUOTE=Deer Hunter;3648259]What's wrong with a plain old mountain bike? Too steep? Push it up...
Of course it's a motorized vehicle. There is a motor in it.[/QUOT

I like plain old mtn bikes, just thought I'd try something new for a change. Worked great too.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING

Very interesting to hear people being given info that's opposite to what I was told by a srd officer.

I think people's idea of these bikes goes well beyond their capabilites, especially in hilly country. I really don't understand why they would get a ban in provincial parks as a whole. I can only imagine policy makers picturing people whizzing around on trails and causing safety issues for other riders.

But to treat them the same as an OHV is ridiculous.

Cheers.
John
highlanderhunting.podbean.com

You guys seem to attract these discussions.

Must be the marketing plan....

Verbal opinions from Conservation Officers varies within many factors.

Sometimes a person just hears what they want to.

To get a definitive answer it is best to write Enforcement requesting a Written response including a reference to the applicable legislation.

[Deer Hunter]

The only reason to use an e bike is because it's easier.
Safeway. That's easy.

If you're riding these motorized bikes behind gates that don't allow motorized vehicles. You run the risk of getting caught and ticketed.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

The only reason to use an e bike is because it's easier.
Safeway. That's easy.

If you're riding these motorized bikes behind gates that don't allow motorized vehicles. You run the risk of getting caught and ticketed.

Yup you nailed it. We go for the easy hunts
Maybe next year we'll rent magic carpets.