Why are there other calibres other than .223, .308 and 30.30?

[iamcanjim]

Newbie here. Aside from personal choice, why are their so many big game centre fire calibres?

It seems like for hunting small fast moving creatures, like coyotes, use a .223. Why are there .204 or .22-250? Are they that much better to justify the expense?

Same for big game. There is not an animal in North America that can't be killed easily with a .308. Why are there others?

And of course a lever action requires a .30.30.

I understand why obsolete military calibres, like .303, .30.06 or 6.5x55 are used. What I don't understand is why there are things like 7mm08, .26.06, .270, etc. Are they THAT much more effective than .308 or .30.06?

[32-40win]

Cuz whatever I invent, is better than what you invented. Whatever you build, I can build it better. What you built doesn't work here, but, mine does. Man you build cheap junk!!! Mine is waaaaaayyy better than that!!

[uglyelk]

Why do they sell shirts in more than one colour, why do some men prefer red heads?

http://www.amazon.com/Cartridges-Wor.../dp/0896899365

Try this if you wish to educate yourself on the pros and cons of different cartridges and the history of their development.

[iamcanjim]

I am actually pretty familiar with military cartridges, being a bit of a history buff. And I agree variation is the spice of life. However, hunting cartridges are a bit silly. I mean, lets see, if I want to shoot a coyote at 100 yards sitting still, I should use this gun and cartridge, but if he is running at 150 yards, that cartridge and gun are so wrong you shouldn't be hunting. At least that what it seems like around here.

Just think how cheap ammo would be if everyone used .223 and .308.

[deanmc]

Cause not everyone is boring and simple as that. Thank goodness.

[bigshell]

Originally Posted by iamcanjim

I am actually pretty familiar with military cartridges, being a bit of a history buff. And I agree variation is the spice of life. However, hunting cartridges are a bit silly. I mean, lets see, if I want to shoot a coyote at 100 yards sitting still, I should use this gun and cartridge, but if he is running at 150 yards, that cartridge and gun are so wrong you shouldn't be hunting. At least that what it seems like around here.

Just think how cheap ammo would be if everyone used .223 and .308.

Variety is the spice of life,and everyone has an opinion about the best cartridge,you for instance seem to favor the .223 and .308

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

Cuz whatever I invent, is better than what you invented. Whatever you build, I can build it better. What you built doesn't work here, but, mine does. Man you build cheap junk!!! Mine is waaaaaayyy better than that!!

Like my old man's favourite saying - "Soembody designing something to sell to someone because they think they need it"!!
Cat

[CaberTosser]

Because it's in mans nature to tinker with stuff, especially really important stuff involving their hobby. It's the same reason there's hot rod cars, lifted trucks, homemade fishing flies, garage wood shops, and spices in the kitchen cupboard. Everyone wants to build a better mousetrap.

[ACKLEY ABE]

or better still...why is there a .223 or a .308 when cartridges already existed that would meet or excced everything these two can do?

[ShawnM]

Because each one represents an incremental step in technology over the other. Or at least in whatever attribute the developer wanted to improve on. Some improve on velocity, others ballistics, and others cartridge size, recoil, etc. etc.

Some were just done because they could, or because someone wanted their name on a cartridge. Everybody selects their cartridge based on what's important to them. In my case I selected the .270 Winchester because it is obviously the best cartridge ever invented.

[densa44]

The military ammo changed as soldier to soldier combat changed.

The bench rest shooters have made a real contribution to accuracy.

The inventors, think that if they can combine the "best of both" they will have the best cartridge.

Your research has also shown that some of the old calibers have disappeared.

There is on going changes to propellants and I predict that will bring about more changes in time.

When we get to cartridge less ammunition, electronic triggers, rail guns, etc. there will be more changes.

You might be interested to know that in 1896 an American congressman recommended eliminating the US patent office because "everything had been invented." Not yet.

[bigshell]

Originally Posted by ACKLEY ABE

or better still...why is there a .223 or a .308 when cartridges already existed that would meet or excced everything these two can do?

yes the 220 swift and the 30/06 come to mind....

[Lefty-Canuck]

....because if there were not more than 2 or 3 calibers we would never have the threads titled,

"What is the best caliber to take elk with?" or

"What is the best all around caliber choice for Alberta?"

"Is my .308 big enough to take down a moose?"

This would never get the old cantankerous boys panties in a knot and that would be no fun....also the in-fighting and debate on calibers would not occur.....again no fun.

In short there are many calibers because we like to argue about tomatoe and potatoe.....and that is just a heck of alot of fun.

LC

[Metalmike123]

We wouldn't get to argue about which cartridge is best now would we?

[kayaker]

You make a valid point regarding the shear utility of various cartridges - e.g. a why a .300 Win and WSM?

Some are the product of more effecient mechanics e.g. the .300Win was easier and cheaper to fit into standard actions and magazines than the preexsiting .300 H&H and WBY and Roy designed his .300 because he thought pushing the same bullet a couple hundred FPS faster than the H&H made it much better....

I guess its what happens amongst enthusiasts who like ballistics. The same could be said of rifles - why more designs than a Mauser, Mod 70 and Rem 700? In fact modern switch barrels/take downs like the Sauer 202 and Blaser's make everything else uneccessary now - they have been proven time and again in all situations from target to dangerous game have excellent triggers, are convenient to transport and are extremely accurate right out of the box without tweaks.

Just a correction - .30-06 and 6.5x55 and hardly obsolete - redundant in comparison to your .308 perhaps could be the argument. Interestingly both way precede the .308 which almost makes the .308 an unecessary redundancy if we are arguing the case from a purely pragmatic position...

[ACKLEY ABE]

Originally Posted by kayaker

You make a valid point regarding the shear utility of various cartridges - e.g. a why a .300 Win and WSM?

Some are the product of more effecient mechanics e.g. the .300Win was easier and cheaper to fit into standard actions and magazines than the preexsiting .300 H&H and WBY and Roy designed his .300 because he thought pushing the same bullet a couple hundred FPS faster than the H&H made it much better....

I guess its what happens amongst enthusiasts who like ballistics. The same could be said of rifles - why more designs than a Mauser, Mod 70 and Rem 700? In fact modern switch barrels/take downs like the Sauer 202 and Blaser's make everything else uneccessary now - they have been proven time and again in all situations from target to dangerous game have excellent triggers, are convenient to transport and are extremely accurate right out of the box without tweaks.

Just a correction - .30-06 and 6.5x55 and hardly obsolete - redundant in comparison to your .308 perhaps could be the argument. Interestingly both way precede the .308 which almost makes the .308 an unecessary redundancy if we are arguing the case from a purely pragmatic position...

Yip nothing a 308 can do that a 30.06 can't and over 400 yards the 30.06 has the advantage. Now...that being said, I do own three 308's so disregard anything I say cause I like em all.

[duffy4]

I see your point and partly agree. There is room for a few more cartridges that you mention but there is a whole lot of overlap in many cartridges.

Why do we need a .260 Rem when the 6.5X55 has been with us for so long and filled that niche.

When the 7X57 has been around for so darn long why would we require a 7mm-08?

The 30/06 was a brilliant cartridge and spawned the .25/06, .270, 280 and .35 Whelen. All of which do something a little different that the 30/06 but were they really needed?

Some variety is nice but then there is redundancy. A character flaw in industrialized, capitalistic man.

[kayaker]

Originally Posted by ACKLEY ABE

Yip nothing a 308 can do that a 30.06 can't and over 400 yards the 30.06 has the advantage. Now...that being said, I do own three 308's so disregard anything I say cause I like em all.

Haha, I agree. The .30-06 is arguably better, especially with heavier bullets, but damn that .308 is a sweet cartridge, I love 'em too.

[skinnykid]

More like "Why not?"...

Why have cars, trucks, sleds, atv's, bikes all with different displacements, different configurations, different HP, all within the endless subcatagories that go along with them?

What about optics? Why have anything other than 3-9x or a fixed 4x?

People get bored easily, that's why. I'm one of those people...

skinny

[Grizzly Adams]

Don't forget that every Outdoors writer's dream is to have a cartridge named after him. I'm waiting for the .276 1/2 Schwanky to show up at the local gun store.


Grizz

[winger7mm]

I think most are missing the point here, if there was "just" a .223 and .308, How many guns would we have in the cabinet??? 3 or 4? Right now I have 6 different calibers in my cabinet, in not even 25 yet so by the time im 30 ill have probably another 6 different calibers. With the amount of different calibers out there a guys limit is the sky (or his wallet/wife) So far I like every one I have. Where I live its not so much a chance ill run into an elk,bear while im running 108 looking for my buck, the 7mm will stay home but the .243 will come along. I like to have choices of what im going to harvest and of what im going to use to harvest, who knows maybe in the future ill have a bear spear on the shelf who knows but love having a choice

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by grizzly adams

don't forget that every outdoors writer's dream is to have a cartridge named after him. I'm waiting for the .276 1/2 schwanky to show up at the local gun store.


Grizz

"like"

LC

[iamcanjim]

Actually I am just trying to get my post count up. I actually am buying my first deer rifle this year and with budget an issue (I am newly unemployed) I would probably get anything from a .243 to a .45-70 if the price was right.

[catnthehat]

I'm not sure why you want to get your post count up, high posts don't mean much ....
Cat

[Pincherguy]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

Cuz whatever I invent, is better than what you invented. Whatever you build, I can build it better. What you built doesn't work here, but, mine does. Man you build cheap junk!!! Mine is waaaaaayyy better than that!!

Nobody could have said that better

[ishootbambi]

because without them we would only have 2 threads a week in here......and they would be about bear protection.

[Mekanik]

What else would we argue about?

[bigshell]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

because without them we would only have 2 threads a week in here......and they would be about bear protection.

And one of them would be about which cartridge makes better bear protection..

[Redneck Tommy]

Then everyone in moose camp would have the same guns way to boring now we have ten different one that all do the same thing

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Like my old man's favourite saying - "Soembody designing something to sell to someone because they think they need it"!!
Cat

Your Dad was a smart man, but I'd add the trick is to design something and convince someone they need it. It's what makes our economy go round.