Your Idea's, to face lift our current Draw System

[209x50]

We had 160000 hunters in 1971 about 50,000 more than now. We had no draws or other shortages. Why do some believe we need to punish the remaining hunters with increased draw prices and further loss of opportunity??

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by 209x50

We had 160000 hunters in 1971 about 50,000 more than now. We had no draws or other shortages. Why do some believe we need to punish the remaining hunters with increased draw prices and further loss of opportunity??

You bet. I am pretty sure you could only buy one tag and then shoot one animal of your choosing back then; if I am not mistaken.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by 209x50

We had 160000 hunters in 1971 about 50,000 more than now. We had no draws or other shortages. Why do some believe we need to punish the remaining hunters with increased draw prices and further loss of opportunity??

So are you are saying in over 30 years the populations and amount of viable habitat has stayed level and the one third increase in hunters warrants things should stay as is?

Basically.....nothing to see here?

LC

[209x50]

Originally Posted by sakogreywolf

You bet. I am pretty sure you could only buy one tag and then shoot one animal of your choosing back then; if I am not mistaken.

you are mistaken.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

So are you are saying in over 30 years the populations and amount of viable habitat has stayed level and the one third increase in hunters warrants things should stay as is?

Basically.....nothing to see here?

LC

Increase?!?! Wasn't there 110,000 hunters last year?

[sakogreywolf]

Ok. What were the parameters with tags and hunting 42 years ago?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Increase?!?! Wasn't there 110,000 hunters last year?

Missed the "more than" in your post

If there are less hunters now why do we need draws? Is that your point?

LC

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by 209x50

We had 160000 hunters in 1971 about 50,000 more than now. We had no draws or other shortages. Why do some believe we need to punish the remaining hunters with increased draw prices and further loss of opportunity??

And we have a lot more big game now than in 1971.


There are some areas of hunter management that I think we should deal with. Let's start by Tightening up a few loose ends with the application process and tweak the priority system.


You are right that we need to place the focus back on Game management.

Right now according to the Alberta Pronghorn Antelope Management Plan we are at 4.4% of the Harvest goal!

This is a complete failure, and I don't think the blame can be put on the weather.


Alberta Pronghorn Management Plan hunting harvest goal - 3410 animals (1740 bucks and 1670 does)

2012 Alberta Pronghorn harvest goal - 150 animals (120 bucks and 30 does)

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

If someone can't afford a $40 goat draw.....there's no way they could afford the hunt its self , driving, accross the province, time off work , equipment etc... we are involved in one of the most expensive sports on the planet.

If they hunt for meat does draws and general tags are plentiful especially in home wmu's

X2

Also if i am non mistaken there are provisions for subsitence hunters anyway is there not? If someone can not come up with $40 for a draw I'm pretty sure they would fall into that category.

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by sakogreywolf

You bet. I am pretty sure you could only buy one tag and then shoot one animal of your choosing back then; if I am not mistaken.

Just talked with dad. He cannot give me a specific time frame, but it does stick out in his mind that he had to choose one big game animal to shoot with one general tag, so they went to the mountains to shoot elk as they provided the most meat. For all he knows it could have just been a short term measure at one time. I guess I will admit that you have to take this statement with a grain of salt.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by 209x50

We had 160000 hunters in 1971 about 50,000 more than now. We had no draws or other shortages. Why do some believe we need to punish the remaining hunters with increased draw prices and further loss of opportunity??

Wasn't born then, what was differnt then than now in regards to how draws/tags etc... were managed?

[savage1982]

To all the guys that think raising draw prices is the answer... Give your heads a shake and stop being retards!!! Patience is what you all need!!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by 209x50

We had 160000 hunters in 1971 about 50,000 more than now. We had no draws or other shortages. Why do some believe we need to punish the remaining hunters with increased draw prices and further loss of opportunity??

We also had way less human encroachment, industrial activity, pollution and a lot of country back then was not accessed for the purpose of hunting as it is now.
If its less pressure now as you put it we should be able to completely get rid of the draw system!!
Hunting isn't what it was like in the 70's! It's far from what it was like in the 90's.
Things change. And things need to change. This sit around do nothing attitude of many is why we have to wait 10+ years to hunt many animals. To much I want as much as possible but I want it as cheap as possible too is another big issue here!!

[209x50]

He he. I was buying tags then. You could buy two moose tags a year (general and a bull tag), there were few elk here so we didn't bother but we also bought deer. I think I remember you could only buy a whitetail or a mule tag but not both deer the same year.

[hal53]

In 1975 out of Mule, WT moose and Elk, you could buy 3 out of the 4

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by 209x50

We had 160000 hunters in 1971 about 50,000 more than now. We had no draws or other shortages. Why do some believe we need to punish the remaining hunters with increased draw prices and further loss of opportunity??

Im not sure about what was going on in the 70's but this attachment details the increases in hunter numbers today. Ok, till 2010 anyways.

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by 209x50

He he. I was buying tags then. You could buy two moose tags a year (general and a bull tag), there were few elk here so we didn't bother but we also bought deer. I think I remember you could only buy a whitetail or a mule tag but not both deer the same year.

Originally Posted by hal53

In 1975 out of Mule, WT moose and Elk, you could buy 3 out of the 4

Sounds like I would have enjoyed hunting during the 70's

[sakogreywolf]

Now that I think about it though......by the time I could start hunting in the eighties, mule deer were not yet on the draw, and you were VERY hard pressed to find one in my area.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

And we have a lot more big game now than in 1971.


There are some areas of hunter management that I think we should deal with. Let's start by Tightening up a few loose ends with the application process and tweak the priority system.


You are right that we need to place the focus back on Game management.

Right now according to the Alberta Pronghorn Antelope Management Plan we are at 4.4% of the Harvest goal!

This is a complete failure, and I don't think the blame can be put on the weather.


Alberta Pronghorn Management Plan hunting harvest goal - 3410 animals (1740 bucks and 1670 does)

2012 Alberta Pronghorn harvest goal - 150 animals (120 bucks and 30 does)

Wouldn't the harvest goal fluctuate or need adjustment with the sudden changes in antelope population? Maybe the population is not recovering from the winter of 2010? Maybe the drastic reduction of tags to go along with the conserved harvest was necessary as part of longer term game management?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by sakogreywolf

Now that I think about it though......by the time I could start hunting in the eighties, mule deer were not yet on the draw, and you were VERY hard pressed to find one in my area.

yup, and it was Mule bucks only, Does were off limits...think the WT tag was still either sex though...????

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Wouldn't the harvest goal fluctuate or need adjustment with the sudden changes in antelope population? Maybe the population is not recovering from the winter of 2010? Maybe the drastic reduction of tags to go along with the conserved harvest was necessary as part of longer term game management?

According to SRD's 2011 and 2012 Pronghorn population estimates the herd is down around 23% from the long term average. The population was stable from 2011 to 2012 and is expected to be on the rise this year. Harvest allocation based on the the population estimes show that Alberta residents recieved 80% fewer licences than what "should" have been issued in both 2011 and 2012. This is a massive reduction in Resident opportunity and a significant cause for increased draw wait times.

Why? I'm looking forward to the answer.


I'll get some more information out on this concern soon, likely in a new thread.





For those who feel NR Hunter Hosted are reducing resident's opportunity in the draw, you are right.


NR Hunter Hosted accounted for 1% of the Mule Deer Special licences in 2012.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

According to SRD's 2011 and 2012 Pronghorn population estimates the herd is down around 23% from the long term average. The population was stable from 2011 to 2012 and is expected to be on the rise this year. Harvest allocation based on the the population estimes show that Alberta residents recieved 80% fewer licences than what "should" have been issued in both 2011 and 2012. This is a massive reduction in Resident opportunity and a significant cause for increased draw wait times.

Why? I'm looking forward to the answer.


I'll get some more information out on this concern soon, likely in a new thread.





For those who feel NR Hunter Hosted are reducing resident's opportunity in the draw, you are right.


NR Hunter Hosted accounted for 1% of the Mule Deer Special licences in 2012.

^^^^^^Looking back again, that is what has got us in this mess.
The survey that was put up on this board (although you will discredit it of course ) shows 25% of draw applicants are non-residents (+/- 10%) which surely isn't 100% accurate but is a lot greater than 1%. To think that all is well because there is only 1% based on some historical slide, is crazy.

Why don't you post the whole report rather than just a select piece of information designed to suit your argument?

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

That or do the math.

OK.
The numbers that I have for 2012 Mule Buck
9588 residents/nr drawn (72%)
2073 allotted outfitter tags (16%) out of 2351 possible
unknown resident landowner tags (estimated at 1500 based on 11% graph) 11%
Total of 13161 tags.

Maximum 84% residents with a minimum of 16% NR/NRA.


How do they get that Outfitters were only at 8%? They had 2073 allocations last year. I get 16%. The math on that graph doesn't add up.

[bloody arrow]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Local Huntets are easily the minority. How many sheep hunters are locals? How many goat hunters are locals? How many antelope hunters are locals? How many Buffalo hunters are locals? How many Prarie elk hunters are just locals? In most big demand draws the local people will for sure be non local hunters.
How many guys travel to hunt trophy mule deer? How many apply? Far more than there is local Hunters.
How many camp wainwright Huntets are locals? Not very many!

And lots of the locals in zones that do hunt get draw tags every year anyways with landowner tags.

It's easy in a province with most of its population in urban centers that a large portion of guys hunting are not going to be locals.

I lived and had land in 318 and 324 my whole life and the majority of guys I talked to out hunting or that hunted our land were far from local and far out numbered the locals.

really? maybe in the 300, 400's WMU, what about the 100's WMU????

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by bloody arrow

really? maybe in the 300, 400's WMU, what about the 100's WMU????

Yep I have 2 buddies south of the hat that get landowner tags for mule deer every year.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by sakogreywolf

You bet. I am pretty sure you could only buy one tag and then shoot one animal of your choosing back then; if I am not mistaken.

would like to know where those numbers came from???...since I saw that I have been searching, phoning and e-mailing. Not much luck so far. Pretty tough to believe we had 50,000 more hunters in '71????

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by hal53

would like to know where those numbers came from???...since I saw that I have been searching, phoning and e-mailing. Not much luck so far. Pretty tough to believe we had 50,000 more hunters in '71????

Well maybe the guy that posted the number should quote his sources as the numbers seem pretty unrealistic. But I'm sure someone of his statute wouldn't quote number unless they were real so hope he posts them. But probably won't.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by bloody arrow

really? maybe in the 300, 400's WMU, what about the 100's WMU????

Where does it say only certain zones??

http://www.albertaregulations.ca/pdf...al-Licence.pdf

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by hal53

would like to know where those numbers came from???...since I saw that I have been searching, phoning and e-mailing. Not much luck so far. Pretty tough to believe we had 50,000 more hunters in '71????

Only thing I can think of is the population was a lot more rural back then than today but 50K more people is a pretty large delta especially when the population in the province has exploded since then!

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by hal53

would like to know where those numbers came from???...since I saw that I have been searching, phoning and e-mailing. Not much luck so far. Pretty tough to believe we had 50,000 more hunters in '71????

Here is the more recent version of the HFT hunter survey report

Key take-aways:

NRA/NR amounted for 8% of the total Alberta hunters in 2012, but amounted to 27% of the new hunters in 2012 proving rapid growth of NR and NRA hunters with respect to new residents.

The number of hunting licenses sold was up 127 % in 10 yrs (344,000 to 439,000)

Yet the number of online draw applications was up 160% in 10 yrs (179,000 to 300,000)

Bowhunting permits increased 131% in 6 years

NRA/NR pheasant hunting permits are at all time lows (only 60% of where they were 6 years ago)

NR/NRA waterfowl licenses are also down to all time lows based on the info provided.

[209x50]

In 1981 numbers hit 164527 and then fell to 114208 by 1991.