AB Fish and Game Association should be ashamed

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

So that huge annual sum of membership money really gets members nothing more than consistently lacking real world results with major provincial issues, and the good old diversion, "step up and do it yourself or dont complain", is all there is to consistently say... Hmmm

I take it your not interested in volunteering your time?
The membership money supports many things other than a political agenda.
Such as maintaining clubs, land, kids camps, family and member functions, awards, rifle ranges, firearm and hunter education.
They forward policy and law change suggestions but SRD.
Does what ever they want.
Have you cleaned up garbage at a club or volunteered at a fund raiser lately?
My guess is no!
So you complain about the NDP even though you didn't vote?

[packhuntr]

You guessed wrong! Refrain from guessing. It is very inconsistent and can give people the impression that one is completely incompetent.

[BuckCuller]

What AFGA club do you volunteer your time too?
Are you cancelling your membership like others because some selfish wannabe hunting star shot a bear in the guts with a spear and displayed complete disrugard for the bear that they showed on the video the trail of intestines leading to the bear and laughed about it. One side of the scale a club that does many good things for many people the other side of the scale a spear hunter that does a lot of good things for himself.
I know who I choose to back!

[packhuntr]

You are grasping and are all over the map. Not a conversation i am interested in. Keep your strong work ethic, it is needed, later gater

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

You are grasping and are all over the map. Not a conversation i am interested in. Keep your strong work ethic, it is needed, later gater

If you are not interested in the conversation why in the world would you post about it?
Have a good one.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

I take it your not interested in volunteering your time?
The membership money supports many things other than a political agenda.
Such as maintaining clubs, land, kids camps, family and member functions, awards, rifle ranges, firearm and hunter education.
They forward policy and law change suggestions but SRD.
Does what ever they want.
Have you cleaned up garbage at a club or volunteered at a fund raiser lately?
My guess is no!
So you complain about the NDP even though you didn't vote?

You are assuming that packhuntr already belongs to the AFGA.
He may not, for several reasons.

Cat

[Prairiewolf]

The problem I have with the video isn't the use of the spear, its the celebration after the throw and the gratuitous images leading up to the death of the bear. Yes, I'm aware that animals often run after a shot/bow/atlatl/spear, but putting it on video and making it available to go viral (as it has) shows little to no common sense. I don't feel the need to hide the fact that I'm a hunter, but I'd stop short of promoting my activities like this.

As a result of all this, spear hunting is getting lumped in with the poor practices shown. It does seem like AFGA is reacting to public opinion, but until actual legislation gets put into motion we'll have to see. My concern is the small subset of people who see this video, get it in their head that they should do a hunt like this, and go out with little to no experience with this form of hunting. My attitude wouldn't be different with rifles, bows, atlatls, spears, or whatever - but the risk to both wildlife and hunter seems greater with primitive weapons.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

So that huge annual sum of membership money really gets members nothing more than consistently lacking real world results with major provincial issues, and the good old diversion, "step up and do it yourself or dont complain", is all there is to consistently say... Hmmm

AFGA was receiving approximately $60,000 per year from out club in membership fees and other costs. Some members had joined our club early in the year, and their names were submitted early, but they received no magazines or information from AFGA until late summer, because AFGA took months to process the memberships. Other members joined later on in the year , and received nothing from AFGA, but our club still submitted the membership fees for them. As well the AFGA took liberties in spending money on behalf of our club without approval from us, and then submitting the invoices for our club to pay. When we inquired about these concerns, the response from the AFGA executive was much less than satisfactory, and these issues kept occurring. When we told the AFGA that unless changes were made, we would have to consider disassociating our club from the AFGA, the result was basically good luck finding insurance for our range without them. We inquired with insurance companies, and found much better coverage at less cost to the club, and once we were insured with another company, we severed all ties with the AFGA. Of course AFGA was not happy to lose our $60,000 , so they used the contact information from previous memberships to contact some of our members, to try and get them to put pressure on our executive to rejoin AFGA, or to convince our members to join AFGA independently of our club. Then rumors started floating around and the executive started receiving inquiries about our club not having any insurance. Yes AFGA does back some good causes, but as to whether a person really receives any worthwhile benefits for joining is another matter.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Prairiewolf

The problem I have with the video isn't the use of the spear, its the celebration after the throw and the gratuitous images leading up to the death of the bear. Yes, I'm aware that animals often run after a shot/bow/atlatl/spear, but putting it on video and making it available to go viral (as it has) shows little to no common sense. I don't feel the need to hide the fact that I'm a hunter, but I'd stop short of promoting my activities like this.

As a result of all this, spear hunting is getting lumped in with the poor practices shown. It does seem like AFGA is reacting to public opinion, but until actual legislation gets put into motion we'll have to see. My concern is the small subset of people who see this video, get it in their head that they should do a hunt like this, and go out with little to no experience with this form of hunting. My attitude wouldn't be different with rifles, bows, atlatls, spears, or whatever - but the risk to both wildlife and hunter seems greater with primitive weapons.

Well said. I could care less if people hunted with their bare hands, as long as they are skilled enough that the animal dies a quick death.

As far as posting the video, there are much more gruesome videos online of people getting mutilated and killed in accidents and war with less public outcry. This is a problem if you ask me.

I do believe AFGA is reacting to the biased public opinion. After reading some of the comments on here I think less of them than I used to.

[packhuntr]

Be intersting to know where the ABA stands on this. All outdoor related, sportsmen funded groups should be standing a hard line TOGETHER on this one. While its ridiculous that this is even a topic of conversation, let alone concern, anything less from sportsmen organizations in Ab is simply outrageous.

[Newellknik]

Having been involved with G&F clubs in several provinces for over
50 years nothing about these organizations has changed , upon my arrival
In south Ab. I interviewed a couple . Ehhhh No . As has been stated
they do some good work , with the kids , environment etc. But as is the case
Here when it's time to get the big guns and heavy ammunition out , they
fail miserably .Think about this ,with the all assault on our beloved sport
The measure of a good association,speaking for us the sportsman , is that
they can deliver a decent magazine . It is highly unlikely that the AFGA
executive are viewed in a good light by our current nuts and berries minister.
Rather than a asst of social clubs having our best interests at heart ,we
need a strong unified province wide association taking this govt to task
On every move they make that effects the Alberta outdoorsman .
Shannon Philips has to know , WE are not just going along for their ride .
Unlikely we are able to affect social media as it is . The attitude that if
It's legal it's ok , well everything in that video was legally done , so
why is it such a world wide big deal . When there was the opportunity
to set the record straight , to stand up for the hunter at large ,
Our people whose job is to take our wishes to the legislators , sold us out
Without even a second thought . That is a way bigger problem then
that stupid video .
If you want your kids , your grandkids and you to have what WE have
had in the great outdoors .....you had better get off your ass !
If this is the wave of the future we are in deep doo doo .

[Lefty-Canuck]

This is how I see the situation personally,

There's two parts to this...
The legalities, legal hunt with a legal weapon. That's black and white.

The portrayal, what the video captured and portrayed and the fact that their should have been some skillful editing selecting the appropriate footage and this whole thing could have been presented much differently...or perhaps not presented to the general public at all.

Any Hunter knows what can and will happen...not every animal dies immediately and with "primitive" means, wound channel and blood loss is by and large what allows us to be successful.

Do we really need to show the world that aspect? We should focus on the other areas of the hunt and portray things differently IMHO. The way this hunt was portrayed and delivered to the masses should be a tutorial in what NOT to do, regardless of the legality issue IMHO.

LC

[Roughneck Country]

Pretty disappointed in Mark Boyce as well, he has publically come out and supported the ban of spear hunting as well.

Although the video wasn't tastefully done for TV it is pretty amazing to kill a big game animal with a spear period.

[packhuntr]

I say who cares about the video. It is completely irrelevant now at this stage. Focus instantaneously on a provincial level, from sportsmen groups as well as our fish and wildlife regulatory body, should have been and should immediately be on focussed offense not defense. Any of our legally, ethically and socially acceptable actions in the field under the pretence of wildlife mgmt, should without question or fail have an unwaivering hard stance approach to any attack. Insead here we are. And to think that even F&W took a defensive? Publicly was stated that yes, there could be investigation into wether or not it was a legal hunt, area was open at time, licenses in order etc etc. AFGA should have been losing thier marbles solely over wasting publicly funded program time with tax payer dollars, by an under funded govt program, on such absolute ridiculousness. Its just a mighty embarrassing deal. Its unfathomable that we have actually paid money for this.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

Pretty disappointed in Mark Boyce as well, he has publically come out and supported the ban of spear hunting as well.

Although the video wasn't tastefully done for TV it is pretty amazing to kill a big game animal with a spear period.

Holy H....

Mark Boyce, an executive with SCI Alberta, presumably speaking independently.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...nter-1.3723937

"Boyce, a hunter himself, said he supports the government moving to ban spear hunting.

"I think that it sounds questionable. Any hunting ethics issues where it's going to give hunting a bad name, or make hunting look bad, strikes me as being the sort of thing we should ban.""


Do these guys think before speaking?

There we have it. According to a couple of guys that are at the highest levels of consulting on behalf of Alberta hunters, hunting regulations are now to be determined by social media.

[Deer Hunter]

Are we at rock bottom yet? Feels close...

[nekred]

ok now to bring up an old debate,

This was all discussed years ago with the atlatl hunting and the ABA's effort to get harvesting equipment for big game defined in Alberta Game laws.

For rifles there are certain requirements such as larger than .23 caliber

for archery, 40lb minimum, broadhead size, and arrow length,

for crossbows there is a draw weight requirement, etc.

In current legislation in a general season one can use what they choose, unless prohibited such as poisoned darts, non expanding bullets etc.

Instead of placing prohibitions, define what hunters can use and then the debate is on ethics vs. law. (We will still have the distance "discussions" etc.) and if people want to use a piece of harvesting equipment different than what is defined then they can submit application and lobby for it to be added, with oversight to determine what conditions are attached for the use of the equipment.

A long time ago a certain person was raked over the coals because he had the foresight to see this coming and to try and get things defined.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Holy H....

Mark Boyce, an executive with SCI Alberta, presumably speaking independently.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...nter-1.3723937

"Boyce, a hunter himself, said he supports the government moving to ban spear hunting.

"I think that it sounds questionable. Any hunting ethics issues where it's going to give hunting a bad name, or make hunting look bad, strikes me as being the sort of thing we should ban.""


Do these guys think before speaking?

There we have it. According to a couple of guys that are at the highest levels of consulting on behalf of Alberta hunters, hunting regulations are now to be determined by social media.

Thanks in part to you!!!!!..........................

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by nekred

ok now to bring up an old debate,

This was all discussed years ago with the atlatl hunting and the ABA's effort to get harvesting equipment for big game defined in Alberta Game laws.

For rifles there are certain requirements such as larger than .23 caliber

for archery, 40lb minimum, broadhead size, and arrow length,

for crossbows there is a draw weight requirement, etc.

In current legislation in a general season one can use what they choose, unless prohibited such as poisoned darts, non expanding bullets etc.

Instead of placing prohibitions, define what hunters can use and then the debate is on ethics vs. law. (We will still have the distance "discussions" etc.) and if people want to use a piece of harvesting equipment different than what is defined then they can submit application and lobby for it to be added, with oversight to determine what conditions are attached for the use of the equipment.

A long time ago a certain person was raked over the coals because he had the foresight to see this coming and to try and get things defined.

Who is this person?

Originally Posted by nekred

Thanks in part to you!!!!!..........................

I suspect that you are mistaken.

But don't let facts get in your way....

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Are we at rock bottom yet? Feels close...

I hope so....

What's next? A true recovery to where hunting organizations and individuals stand up for hunting, or just a dead cat bounce?

[nube]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I hope so....

What's next? A true recovery to where hunting organizations and individuals stand up for hunting, or just a dead cat bounce?

What is next is Next years sheep changes. I hear they are giving residents 10% harvest and the rest goes to outfitters lol

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by nube

What is next is Next years sheep changes. I hear they are giving residents 10% harvest and the rest goes to outfitters lol

What's 10% of 0?

Considering how AGMAG was abandoned without a complaint from stakeholder representatives, and the new AGPAC system is designed for a few select private eyes only, add in the Premier dictating hunting regulations by ordering F&W to ban spears cause somebody from the UK complained....

Don't expect the outfitters to get much either.

But hey, this new system sure is efficient.

[Vook]

Originally Posted by ganderblaster

Once they start banning they do not stop.

100% agree!

[Okotokian]

I don't always agree with their resolutions, but I respect and generally appreciate the efforts of these people who put so much into the sport/pastime/lifestyle.

[BeaverJim]

ban the use of cameras while hunting.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by BeaverJim

ban the use of cameras while hunting.

Or at least have some over sight before it is released to the public.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

You are assuming that packhuntr already belongs to the AFGA.
He may not, for several reasons.

Cat

You are correct he may not be a member but he should be if he is that passionate about how the AFGA operates.
People have no idea how much volunteered time it takes to run and support an organization such as this. Yet they crap on the people that put the effort forth to make it happen. People eventually start thinking why do I bother when what I do is not apreciated.
And yes this topic has everything to do with that video that was not edited properly. Saying it has nothing to do with it will be a hazard to our future as sportsman. Social media is the fastest growing threat there is to our way of life and until people figure this out we will keep having to defend ourselves on a constant basis because of other people's mistakes.
Do I think spear hunting should be banned of coarse not but we cannot control other people's thoughts or feelings. There are many more people that do not hunt than do. We should be doing our best to not give the anti's ammo in the first place.

[catnthehat]

A person does not have to be affiliated with an organization to be concerned about what their polices are of what they are up to.
Many here are opposed the the ABA yet some are bow hunters , same as B&C , SCI or ASOS for that matter .
Cat

[nekred]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Who is this person?






I suspect that you are mistaken.

But don't let facts get in your way....

You may suspect meaning you are not sure....

I am not mistaken... You used this forum (which is also social media) in the past to try an affect outcomes in a few other game management and harvest tool application to further your own unclear agenda.

I just find it ironic that now you question the use of social media to determine wildlife harvesting laws....with disdain.... which is I think the very definition of hypocritical

[purgatory.sv]

Post#78, #79, #89.


Yes he has used this forum, but I perceived in most cases he has always been for harvest rights, I don’t think he has ever apposed what tools were used, may be seasons?

I do not think the poster was questioning social media just the message that was presented?