Using shrimp for bait

[d bowhunter]

Hi guys not trying to stick my nose in anyone business but i would hate to see someone get in trouble, 5-6 years ago i fished Pine a lot for perch we would stop at a slew right by the lake get our shrimp and off we go. One day F&W shows up checks us alls well but the shrimp, he said we can NOT transfer shrimp to the lake for bait or anything else. I was told if i used shrimp they had to be from the lake and they had to be dead before they went on the hook, he had said to salt them before using them. One might want to take a look into this before trying it i thought they would be dead as soon as you put a hook through them lol just a thought thanks guys

[xxclaro]

Thanks bowhunter, worth checking into before getting in trouble.

[EZM]

That law has been written in the Alberta Regulations and Fishing Guide in every edition I can remember for the last 20 years.

It is strictly illegal to transport any live game fish, or bait fish (including aquatic species such as shrimp) from one water body to another. Any baitfish you capture must immediately be killed (including shrimp).

This is exactly why invasive species cause good lakes to be ruined by new species over running them, or by introducing disease.

I hope all people who fish and hunt in our province would take a minute to read and understand our regulations.

The careless actions, whether intentional or not, can have grave consequences for all of us for generations to come far beyond your expectations.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by EZM

That law has been written in the Alberta Regulations and Fishing Guide in every edition I can remember for the last 20 years.

It is strictly illegal to transport any live game fish, or bait fish (including aquatic species such as shrimp) from one water body to another. Any baitfish you capture must immediately be killed (including shrimp).

This is exactly why invasive species cause good lakes to be ruined by new species over running them, or by introducing disease.

I hope all people who fish and hunt in our province would take a minute to read and understand our regulations.

The careless actions, whether intentional or not, can have grave consequences for all of us for generations to come far beyond your expectations.

Can you provide the list and section regarding gammarus Shrimp use as mentioned above?

[yetiseeker]

I can not see anywhere in the regs where it speaks to use of gammus shrimp from another alberta lake. No where in the regs that I am able to see, does it refer to this.

If this is true, what section, page, etc of the regs does it state this on?

Perhaps this is a question for the moderator (Rob Miskosky under "Ask fish
and Wildlife what's the law" section at the top of the board?

[bucksman]

Bait Fish may be used in waters that do not have bait bans or bait fish restrictions. Where fishing with bait fish is prohibited, other baits including smelts, herring, gammarus shrimp and dead fish eggs (e.g., preserved “salmon eggs”) may be used, provided a bait ban is not in effect for that water body.
NOTE: Smelts and herring are of the saltwater families Osmeridae and Clupeidae. Use of the freshwater species cisco (Coregonidae), also called tullibee or lake herring, is prohibited from use as bait

thats the only thing i could find on gammarus shrimp in the regs

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Can you provide the list and section regarding gammarus Shrimp use as mentioned above?

You picked up nicely where Bee Guy left off challenging anything everyone says and putting the burden of proof back on to them. Hopefully that feeds your ego.....just teasing ....

Here's my train of thought .... I could be wrong ... but I would be surprised (at least this time )

The regulations are not going to clearly list every one of the 10,000 species of fish subject to the regulation. The maintenance of these records, along with the potential of "missing a species" would "open the door" for issues. Would you disagree?

Here are some facts.

You cannot use live fish as bait under the provincial regulations.

You cannot use live crayfish ( classification crustacea ) as live bait under the provincial regulations.

All species of fish that live in Alberta (regardless of classification / taxonomy) are subject to the regulations - despite the fact that every species is not specifically mentioned. Would you disagree?

The gammarus species of crustacean is not specifically mentioned as a restricted species .... guess what ...... neither is a stickleback .........so why would you assume because it is not specifically mentioned that it would OK?

I think it's prudent to assume the same regulations and/or common sense approach to bait fish should be applied to crustacean's ..... why would it be different?

Why would you want to risk introducing a potentially harmful species into another body of water? how does that make any sense?

Anyways ... that's my thought.

[EZM]

One more point I forgot to mention .....

The F & W officer indicated it was illegal. That would be another indicator to suggest it is an area of concern.

I am aware gammarus shrimp are present in many of the watersheds throughout the province. I also know introduction is unlikely to have the same negative effect as introducing a carp ..... but that's largely irrelevant.

[xxclaro]

So best to make sure they are dead before taking them to the lake then I guess

[huntsfurfish]

What about live leeches?

[huntsfurfish]

I have to agree with sundance.

And I like that beeguy challenged people when it was needed.

Here was one of those times(sorry EZM).

There is no indication that it is "strictly illegal" in the regs. I tried to stay out of this but you know me.

However, you very well might see more on this and more on invasives in the new regs.

[EZM]

Like I said ..... based on what I read ........and based on the conservation officer's comments I would suggest it's illegal. I could be wrong .... and I'm totally ok with that.

It is 100% clear that it isn't 100% clear .......lol

BeeGuy was an expert challenger but he was as hard headed as the next guy. I enjoyed having him around. He definitely made people think.

Anyways - What I was referring to as "strictly illegal" was the transplantation of aquatic species (fish) from one water body to another. This does not apply to leeches, worms or maggots as far as I can tell. But does apply to Crayfish (crustaceans) so ....... huh ....... I am assuming it would apply to other crustaceans.

That was my train of thought. I could be wrong. I doubt it though. lol.

It's not specified clearly in the summary regs - but there might be something in the full version ..... I might get bored and try looking .... lol.

One thing I did notice is gammarus shrimp, herring and smelt are not considered bait fish, but are referred to as "other bait" in the summary regs. Using live bait fish is illegal ..... does that mean that I could use a smelt as live bait? It does not say I can't.

Is this the basis of the argument?

I realize a smelt and herring are salt water species - but i can bring a tank with me can't I?

I wonder what would happen if F&W rolled up on me while I had my kids saltwater tank full of live smelts with me? It the exact same as the gammarus shrimp .....

I dunno.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by EZM

Like I said ..... based on what I read ........and based on the conservation officer's comments I would suggest it's illegal. I could be wrong .... and I'm totally ok with that.

It would not be the first time a CO was not correct

It is 100% clear that it isn't 100% clear .......lol

I find it pretty clear

BeeGuy was an expert challenger but he was as hard headed as the next guy. I enjoyed having him around. He definitely made people think.

Anyways - What I was referring to as "strictly illegal" was the transplantation of aquatic species (fish) from one water body to another. This does not apply to leeches, worms or maggots as far as I can tell. But does apply to Crayfish (crustaceans) so ....... huh ....... I am assuming it would apply to other crustaceans.

It only states crayfish, not crustaceans. And that has only been in the regs for a relatively short time.

That was my train of thought. I could be wrong. I doubt it though. lol.

It's not specified clearly in the summary regs - but there might be something in the full version ..... I might get bored and try looking .... lol.

One thing I did notice is gammarus shrimp, herring and smelt are not considered bait fish, but are referred to as "other bait" in the summary regs. Using live bait fish is illegal ..... does that mean that I could use a smelt as live bait? It does not say I can't.

Is this the basis of the argument?

I realize a smelt and herring are salt water species - but i can bring a tank with me can't I?

I wonder what would happen if F&W rolled up on me while I had my kids saltwater tank full of live smelts with me? It the exact same as the gammarus shrimp .....

No the basis of the argument is it legal. It appears so.

I dunno.

I believe that this may be addressed in the new regs though(and should be).

With all the trouble in the US with invasives the US (at least some states) are getting stricter with the use of bait and also in Eastern Canada.
We need to adjust and improve on those issues.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

I believe that this may be addressed in the new regs though(and should be).

With all the trouble in the US with invasives the US (at least some states) are getting stricter with the use of bait and also in Eastern Canada.
We need to adjust and improve on those issues.

I hope they do address it. It definitely needs clarification - I don't agree that it's clear. It just "doesn't say specifically" leading both of us to interpret to the best of our ability based on an incomplete document. I will say it does not specifically say it's illegal, at least in the "summary regulations" which are, an incomplete document.

Either way - I can't support potentially transplanting ANY aquatic species from one watershed to the next UNLESS I am 100% sure I won't be causing unintentional issues. I think as responsible conservationists we should all avoid doing the same unless we know what we are doing.

No big deal ....... I wish we had a ask a CO section ..... er ....... wait ....... lol

[cube]

Originally Posted by EZM

Either way - I can't support potentially transplanting ANY aquatic species from one watershed to the next UNLESS I am 100% sure I won't be causing unintentional issues. I think as responsible conservationists we should all avoid doing the same unless we know what we are doing.

No big deal ....... I wish we had a ask a CO section ..... er ....... wait ....... lol

I think allot of us are on the same page here but alas I bet we have all done exactly what we have not thought we were doing. For example leaches come from natural water bodies and to my knowledge none are tested for pathogens. Bait fish as well eg Parker's Minnows etc. come from natural water bodies and are not tested so I can say with a fair bit of confidence that just about every body has moved aquatic species from one water body to another with the risk of spreading aquatic diseases. Unfortunate but true.

The new regs might be addressing it but it will be very interesting to see what the rise in bait cost will eventually be if all of it needs to be certified.

[EZM]

Agreed.

I sent an email to a couple listed contacts in the SRD based out of Spruce Grove. Just to get some clarification on the "shrimp" question.

I expect it's about as clear as mud for these guys sometimes too and might take them some time to get the answer - so stand by.

[EZM]

Wow ........ got a response promptly from the SRD contact for this area ..... here is the cut'n paste, in it's entirety .........

my email to the SRD contacts ....

Good Morning Gentlemen,

I am a member of an online sportsmen’s forum and we are discussing the legality of using gammarus shrimp (or other aquatic shrimp found in Alberta) for bait if it is “live”?

I understand the Gammarus shrimp is not classified as a bait fish, and is referred to, within the summary regulations, as “other bait” along with smelts etc….and it is not illegal to use – it does, however not specify, either way, that these baits must be dead.



If it is legal to do so, the second part of the question pertains to weather or not it is illegal to catch live Gammurus shrimp from one watershed in Alberta and use it as bait in another (different) watershed?

I think most members agree that this is not a good idea, even if not specifically illegal, the introduction of a species from one water to the next could have unwanted consequences despite the fact these are common throughout most watersheds in the province.


We would appreciate your insight.


Regards,

Mario XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX XX XXX
XXX XXX XXXX

The response from SRD ....


Hi Mario

The Alberta Fishery Regulations (Section 19 (g)), states that no person shall angle using any fish as bait, other than dead baitfish, dead smelt, dead herring, dead shrimp, dead fish eggs or the skin, fins, or eyes of game fish caught by angling.

It is legal to catch live Gammarus without a licence, provided that you’re not capturing fish species. As mentioned above, you’re not allowed to use live shrimp, but you would be allowed to use dead shrimp within another (different) watershed.

I agree that inter-basin transfers of organisms whether dead or alive could cause unwanted consequences.

Thanks,
Owen

/end

I guess it's OK for me to be right sometimes !!!

[.270fan]

Good work clearing that up !

Thanks

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Can you provide the list and section regarding gammarus Shrimp use as mentioned above?

looks like section 19 G ....... see response from SRD below. I am assuming this is the provincial full edition of the regs.


Thank-you for your business and come again.

[huntsfurfish]

Wrong








That was me
Sorry EZM.

Here it is:

Angling Restrictions

19. No person shall angle using

(a) more than three hooks attached to a line;

(b) a hook with more than three points on a common shaft;

(c) a lure with more than three hooks as part of it;

(d) in open water, more than one line;

(e) in ice-covered water, more than two lines;

(f) a spring-loaded hook; or

(g) any fish as bait, other than dead bait fish, dead smelt, dead herring, dead shrimp, dead fish eggs or the skin, fins or eyes of game fish caught by angling.

Actually feels good to be wrong once in a while.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Wrong








That was me
Sorry EZM.

Here it is:

Angling Restrictions

19. No person shall angle using

(a) more than three hooks attached to a line;

(b) a hook with more than three points on a common shaft;

(c) a lure with more than three hooks as part of it;

(d) in open water, more than one line;

(e) in ice-covered water, more than two lines;

(f) a spring-loaded hook; or

(g) any fish as bait, other than dead bait fish, dead smelt, dead herring, dead shrimp, dead fish eggs or the skin, fins or eyes of game fish caught by angling.

Actually feels good to be wrong once in a while.

It was your turn to be wrong anyways.

[PlayDoh]

I've never used shrimp as bait but I'm hoping to use some. Anyone know if you can buy them and where at?
Are Gamarus the tiny ones you see naturally in some lakes? Are those the ones people use on hooks? They must get bigger if so.

[PlayDoh]

I guess people use shrimp from the grocery store. Raw and cooked. I suppose I'll give that a shot. Grab a shrimp cocktail ring and share some with my friends, lol. I wonder if they like cocktail sauce?