Newbie questions...

Lawn Man · #1 09-09-2009, 08:09 PM

I am fairly new to fishing. When you catch a keeper, should you kill it right away or keep it alive untill you go in to shore? Also, what is the best way to kill a fish before cleaning it. I feel so barbaric wacking it.

WayneChristie · #2 09-09-2009, 08:10 PM

whack away, we are all barbarians under the skin. Law says kill it right away if you intend on keeping it. may want to remove the gills to slow spoilage tho.

DarkAisling · #3 09-09-2009, 08:16 PM

Yeah, I don't like whackin' them either. Needs to be done, though. I dislike seeing fish flopping around and "gasping" even more than I dislike whackin' them.

I've got a little fish "bat" that I keep in my tackle box: very handy, and means I don't have to go hunting for a rock. The bat's a "panfish" size, so it might not be particularly effective on a bigger fish.

Fishfinder · #4 09-09-2009, 08:21 PM

True Wayne. Also, if u figure ur gonna catch bigger fish later on to fry, let ur catch go. Do not hang on to a fish unless u intend to eat it as I am sure u know. As far as eating goes, catch n bonk, jus be sure ur bonkers are ur keepers. I personally have always found, young - mid age fish are much better eats than old frys. IMO. Fish on

rustynailz · #5 09-09-2009, 08:21 PM

Just tear through the little piece of cartilage on the bottom of the fish right under the gills. They bleed out really quickly.

The faster you get the entrails and blood out of the fish the better they taste IMO.

fishstix · #6 09-09-2009, 08:52 PM

dont even get me started on this one! I dont even swat mosquitoes!

Fishfinder · #7 09-09-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstix

dont even get me started on this one! I dont even swat mosquitoes!

I will get u started. Get the bug b4 thr bug gets u

Rick. · #8 09-09-2009, 09:20 PM

I prefer a lethal injection but then I'm always scared to eat the fish after. LOL Truthfully, I only keep a few per year but if your going to keep it, kill it as quickly as you can. Rick.

Geezle · #9 09-09-2009, 09:50 PM

Just thump 'em. I can't really think of a quicker and less painful way to do it.

slingshotz · #10 09-09-2009, 11:27 PM

One of the best methods if you intend on eating your catch is the Iki Jime method that the Japanese use. Bleeding the fish is also good if you can.

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/004/X2590E....htm#TopOfPage
http://www.nafc.ac.uk/Portals/0/fdn1ikijime.pdf

It does take a little practice but clubbing is a good second alternative. If you catch a fish at the start of the day and have no cooler, then keeping it alive on a stringer is probably the best way to keep the fish from spoiling.

DarkAisling · #11 09-10-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slingshotz

One of the best methods if you intend on eating your catch is the Iki Jime method that the Japanese use. Bleeding the fish is also good if you can.

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/004/X2590E....htm#TopOfPage
http://www.nafc.ac.uk/Portals/0/fdn1ikijime.pdf

It does take a little practise but clubbing is a good second alternative. If you catch a fish at the start of the day and have no cooler, then keeping it alive on a stringer is probably the best way to keep the fish from spoiling.

The first link didn't work for me. I'll play around with that one later. The second one worked.

That's interesting. Are they using a tool similar to hakapik, or do they just drive the spike in by hand? I like that the method allows one ample time to get the fish cleaned before rigour sets in.

Are we allowed to use stringers and/or live wells in Alberta? I was under the impression that we weren't. I'm hoping that we can, though.

jeprli · #12 09-10-2009, 08:27 AM

Sharp object through the forehead and down between the gill plates, kvik and easy, and I see Japanese have a name for it too, from now on I'll call it Iki Jime.

Tredeb · #13 09-10-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

The first link didn't work for me. I'll play around with that one later. The second one worked.

That's interesting. Are they using a tool similar to hakapik, or do they just drive the spike in by hand? I like that the method allows one ample time to get the fish cleaned before rigour sets in.

Are we allowed to use stringers and/or live wells in Alberta? I was under the impression that we weren't. I'm hoping that we can, though.

You just can't posess live fish if you are more than 100m away from the body of water you caught them in.

slingshotz · #14 09-10-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

The first link didn't work for me. I'll play around with that one later. The second one worked.

That's interesting. Are they using a tool similar to hakapik, or do they just drive the spike in by hand? I like that the method allows one ample time to get the fish cleaned before rigour sets in.

Yeah it's a tool like the hakapik but more pointy. But you can do it with other tools and methods. For those that love a good read and have a culinary/scientific type mind here's a really interesting write up on Ike Jime.

http://cookingissues.wordpress.com/2...ckdown-part-1/

Ray · #15 09-10-2009, 10:11 AM

Additionally, I find that a good way to preserve the quality of any fish I intend for the table is to get them on ice immediately after cleaning them. I have a inexpensive ice chest with a carrying handle dedicated for this. Before going out I just throw 3 or 4 trays worth of ice in there. It's good for the whole day.

Okotokian · #16 09-10-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstix

dont even get me started on this one! I dont even swat mosquitoes!

Yet you yank hooks into the mouths of fish?

Albertadiver · #17 09-10-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Yet you yank hooks into the mouths of fish?

You missed a good exchange last night which the mods deleted

... Some new guy came on the forum supporting the same ideologies as well....

DarkAisling · #18 09-10-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slingshotz

Yeah it's a tool like the hakapik but more pointy. But you can do it with other tools and methods. For those that love a good read and have a culinary/scientific type mind here's a really interesting write up on Ike Jime.

http://cookingissues.wordpress.com/2...ckdown-part-1/

Thanks for sharing this. This was a great read (all three entries), and has given me lots to think about. Fish is such a huge part of the Japanese diet, it makes sense that they would have some interesting and effective ways of doing things. The results of stressed fish were also interesting, and I appreciated Chef Suzuki's Zen-like approach.

One thing that it didn't state (that I could find) was how long the fish were left in the ice water to bleed out. I have a cooler full of ice water that I take fishing with me (when not C&R). Could I quickly cut the spinal cord in the two places, and then drop the fish in the ice water for a few hours before I filleted it?

I wish I knew which of the 40 perch I brought back from Sundance last time had been cleaned after full rigor set in. I suspect at least 1/4 of them. I bet I'd notice a significant difference in the taste.

slingshotz · #19 09-10-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

Thanks for sharing this. This was a great read (all three entries), and has given me lots to think about. Fish is such a huge part of the Japanese diet, it makes sense that they would have some interesting and effective ways of doing things. The results of stressed fish were also interesting, and I appreciated Chef Suzuki's Zen-like approach.

One thing that it didn't state (that I could find) was how long the fish were left in the ice water to bleed out. I have a cooler full of ice water that I take fishing with me (when not C&R). Could I quickly cut the spinal cord in the two places, and then drop the fish in the ice water for a few hours before I filleted it?

I wish I knew which of the 40 perch I brought back from Sundance last time had been cleaned after full rigor set in. I suspect at least 1/4 of them. I bet I'd notice a significant difference in the taste.

I'm quite a sushi fanatic (well any food as well

) so I appreciate going to places that take good care of their fish. That being said, I think just doing the basics right will ensure good quality flesh by gutting it quickly, including the gills, making sure not to rupture any guts and getting the fish on ice as soon as possible (it also is the most hygienic).

It's hard to say how long you leave the fish in the ice slurpee as it really depends on things like size and type of fish. Some fish bleed out quicker than others and I'm not sure if smaller or bigger fish will bleed out faster, one has a bigger heart to pump the blood out and the other has less blood in the first place. From what I've noticed about bleeding out fish during hard water season is that it really doesn't take that long for most fish, maybe only 15 min or so, but you have to make sure the fish is bleeding out into water or the blood will clot in contact with air.

fishstix · #20 09-10-2009, 05:07 PM

i gently pull single barbless hooks out of fish mouths. Live release...you should try it!

DarkAisling · #21 09-10-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstix

i gently pull single barbless hooks out of fish mouths. Live release...you should try it!

While I too am a big fan of sushi like Slingshotz, I like my fish nice and dead when I eat them.

hockey1099 · #22 09-10-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstix

i gently pull single barbless hooks out of fish mouths. Live release...you should try it!

I assume everyone here has released more fish alive than they have kept. I practice both C&R and Keep and Kill. When i practice C&R i am not under the impression that i am not harming the fish. Whether they feel pain or not is unimportant the mere fact im puncturing a hole in their mouth/throat means i am harming the fish. Second fighting the fish is bound to stress/fatigue/harm the fish as well. Dont delude yourself into thinking you are more ethical becuase you dont eat your catch. As long as you are within your limits and actually eat the fish there is nothing wrong with taking home dinner

Albertadiver · #23 09-10-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey1099

I assume everyone here has released more fish alive than they have kept. I practice both C&R and Keep and Kill. When i practice C&R i am not under the impression that i am not harming the fish. Whether they feel pain or not is unimportant the mere fact im puncturing a hole in their mouth/throat means i am harming the fish. Second fighting the fish is bound to stress/fatigue/harm the fish as well. Dont delude yourself into thinking you are more ethical becuase you dont eat your catch. As long as you are within your limits and actually eat the fish there is nothing wrong with taking home dinner

X2 Well Said Hockey1099.

TroutHunter · #24 09-10-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

You missed a good exchange last night which the mods deleted

... Some new guy came on the forum supporting the same ideologies as well....

I'll assume the "new guy" was me. Unfortunately I missed all of the exchange that followed. I must admit I really didn't intend to start anything but it's becoming pretty clear that the few of us on here that share my "ideologies" can't post anything without starting something.

fishstix · #25 09-10-2009, 05:28 PM

fish caught on single barbless hooks are more likly to survive. Fish caught for dinner dont! End of story.

fishstix · #26 09-10-2009, 05:39 PM

stress and fatigue dosent mean sure death. Stir the pot albertadiver, hockey1099 I enjoy the battle!!!

DarkAisling · #27 09-10-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroutHunter

I'll assume the "new guy" was me. Unfortunately I missed all of the exchange that followed. I must admit I really didn't intend to start anything but it's becoming pretty clear that the few of us on here that share my "ideologies" can't post anything without starting something.

I think it is all in how it reads. I didn't read any exchange yesterday, so I've no idea what was said.

There are many different ideologies. One is really no better than the next (except for extreme circumstances). The importance is in how they're presented most of the time.

There are some people who think they're more evolved (or something to that effect) as they don't ever take a fish to eat, or because they don't use treble hooks. The preaching gets to be a bit much at times, and as such I've personally given up trying to have a logical and intelligent discussion with those types (the preachy types, not the strictly c&r types).

TroutHunter · #28 09-10-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey1099

I assume everyone here has released more fish alive than they have kept. I practice both C&R and Keep and Kill. When i practice C&R i am not under the impression that i am not harming the fish. Whether they feel pain or not is unimportant the mere fact im puncturing a hole in their mouth/throat means i am harming the fish. Second fighting the fish is bound to stress/fatigue/harm the fish as well. Dont delude yourself into thinking you are more ethical becuase you dont eat your catch. As long as you are within your limits and actually eat the fish there is nothing wrong with taking home dinner

Releasing smaller fish in order to catch a bigger one to keep isn't really C&R , it's required by the government. And please don't delude yourself into thinking that a released fish is just going to die anyway from the stress of being caught. There have been many studies that put the mortality rate of fish caught on small barbless hooks at about 4% and that was for trout which are the most sensitive. Other studies have proved that mortality rates jump dramatically to 100% for those fish caught on bait and clubbed with a bat!

DarkAisling · #29 09-10-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroutHunter

Releasing smaller fish in order to catch a bigger one to keep isn't really C&R , it's required by the government. And please don't delude yourself into thinking that a released fish is just going to die anyway from the stress of being caught. There have been many studies that put the mortality rate of fish caught on small barbless hooks at about 4% and that was for trout which are the most sensitive. Other studies have proved that mortality rates jump dramatically to 100% for those fish caught on bait and clubbed with a bat!

Uh huh. I see what the problem is now.

TroutHunter · #30 09-10-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

Uh huh. I see what the problem is now.

There is no problem , none once so ever. Yes I am strictly catch and release , if other people aren't , so be it , it's their choice and I'll respect it even though I don't agree with it. Just PLEASE don't use the old "the fish is gonna die anyway" excuse to justify it , when it's been disproved time and time again in actual scientific studies. And the more this rumor gets around the more it's going to push young anglers and people new to the sport away from C&R instead of letting them make their own choice.