Temporary foreign workers

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

Problem isnt welfare or ei, the problem is some business owners will hire TFW because they know they can hire them and not pay fairly and not pay benefits and not treat them properly because they dont know the laws of the land.

If you think that "welfare" pays all that much give your head a shake.
I had to use welfare when my son was a baby and my ei ran out. My son was critically ill, and in the childrens hospital. The amount I receiver was not enough to cover my rent and food and rent at that time was for a basement suite and this was in 2006. They have since cut it back from my understanding. So if you are going to attack a program that is there to help people who are in need, you really should know what your talking about.


Sure there are some people who abuse the program, but that is like anything. It gets abused, but you eliminate the abusers. If you think it is easy to make ends meet on pennies each month you try it... cause those who are doing it aren't doing it by choice 98% of the time.

Now the employers who are abusing the TFW program are doing it by choice and they should be punished, however most people who are in a position to speak up are either to scared to speak up or refuse to do so.

The wefare system is the most abused system there is and it will be weather there is foreign workers or not. you don't want to work go on welfare you want a raise have another kid. Don't try to tell me that the welfare money is minimal thier rent is covered their food is covered prescriptions are covered I have a few that rent from me I see them sit home all day watching tv have their beer at night have the boyfriend live there rent free so I would suggest you look into the system more

Mack

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

Problem isnt welfare or ei, the problem is some business owners will hire TFW because they know they can hire them and not pay fairly and not pay benefits and not treat them properly because they dont know the laws of the land.
.

They are required to pay, The same amount as any other employee gets in the same position. Most times, the government even says you have to pay them more than the average!

You still have to show you have advertised for the position, and didn't get any Canadians to apply. First choice always goes to Canadians.

Welfare and E.I are the biggest problem!!!

[troutbug]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

They are required to pay, The same amount as any other employee gets in the same position. Most times, the government even says you have to pay them more than the average!

You still have to show you have advertised for the position, and didn't get any Canadians to apply. First choice always goes to Canadians.

Welfare and E.I are the biggest problem!!!

If no one has noticed, places are advertising but posting a lower then usual wage and they know most Canadians will not, or cannot afford to work for it yet have a note in their add that they have LMO or whatever it is. TFWs will work for the wage, they drive down our wages

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

They are required to pay, The same amount as any other employee gets in the same position. Most times, the government even says you have to pay them more than the average!

You still have to show you have advertised for the position, and didn't get any Canadians to apply. First choice always goes to Canadians.

Welfare and E.I are the biggest problem!!!

And I will tell you 1st hand I have seen employers employers not play fair with TFW's

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by troutbug

If no one has noticed, places are advertising but posting a lower then usual wage and they know most Canadians will not, or cannot afford to work for it yet have a note in their add that they have LMO or whatever it is. TFWs will work for the wage, they drive down our wages

You can't go lower than min wage!

and your wrong, us consumers drive down min wage! Every time you bargin shop, cash in coupons, and negotiate better prices ! Business owners have to look everywhere to save, so you can be happy!

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

And I will tell you 1st hand I have seen employers employers not play fair with TFW's

Just like I've seen people cheat the system... what's your point.. not everyone is good!

[300magman]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Just like I've seen people cheat the system... what's your point.. not everyone is good!

I don't know how to quote multiple things, but I agree with everything you have said. Wages are driven down by consumers, not TFW's....goes back to what I said earlier, everyone is too good in their own minds to work for minimum wage, and then complain that the TFW's are lowering wages because they will. until the service industry starts paying oilfield wages, which obviously they never will, the vast majority of people will not look at those types of jobs as a real possibility for employment, hence the need for TFW's.

[Elk Hunter17]

Originally Posted by troutbug

some people need to open their eyes past the fast food tfws. Come work for a week or two in the industrial side with them. They are a huge hazard, some things i have seen them do is beyond mind blowing. Then we have the language barrier. The companys abuse the tfw program to begin with and qualified canadians are being turned down. Most tfws do not help the economy one bit as i have had them tell me that they send every penny they can home and once their term is up here, they go back and live the good life. Canada is being used and abused.

x 1000

[roper1]

The federal gov't has noticed a lot of problems with the system, hence the greater restrictions on TFW's. Must be pretty obvious if even the politicians see it.........

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

You can't go lower than min wage!

and your wrong, us consumers drive down min wage! Every time you bargin shop, cash in coupons, and negotiate better prices ! Business owners have to look everywhere to save, so you can be happy!

I agree every time a consumer get an item for a cheaper price the retailer needs to get it cheat so the wholesalers have to sell it cheaper so it must be made cheaper and the easiest way for everyone to lower their cost is by lowering wages.

Mack

[chasingtail]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

You still have to show you have advertised for the position, and didn't get any Canadians to apply.

BS, who actually checks that no Canadians applied? For all you know they had a thousand people apply but they lie and say they had none. I read my local paper all the time, never see Tim Hortons advertise in the Classifieds.
Like I said a 100 times you can't pay a wage that attracts Canadians, shut-er down.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

BS, who actually checks that no Canadians applied? For all you know they had a thousand people apply but they lie and say they had none. I read my local paper all the time, never see Tim Hortons advertise in the Classifieds.
Like I said a 100 times you can't pay a wage that attracts Canadians, shut-er down.

Well, why don't you apply and see if they turn you down! Then report back to us! Maybe work there for a month, and tell exactly how their system works!

oh, and you have to give them a list of places you have published your help wanted ads, and they must be on for 1 or 3 ( can't remember the time off hand) months continues. I know they check, by phone, email, and even send in people to inquire!

But...If your so worried, about Timmies, perhaps you could convince them to grow their beans in Canadian fields and or warehouses!.... Let them know you want more Canadians and your willing to pay $25 for your double double! and no roll up the rim! LOL

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

BS, who actually checks that no Canadians applied? For all you know they had a thousand people apply but they lie and say they had none. I read my local paper all the time, never see Tim Hortons advertise in the Classifieds.
Like I said a 100 times you can't pay a wage that attracts Canadians, shut-er down.

So you split the Hours in half so you get 2 part time jobs so that you dont have to pay benefits and lower the wages so you wont get any quality candidates, thus ensuring that "No Canadians will apply"
I have seen employers say that "No Canadians applied" and I can tell you as the person on the front desk/dispatcher I had CANADIAN men and women walk in weekly and hand me their resumes which I personally reviewed and handed to HR and the owners and watched them throw them in the trash because they wanted to much $ and TWF and immigrants are lower wage earners.

[Falltimeprimetime]

Canadians first! That's it that's all. Everyone supporting them has to think there is someone more qualified, more experienced and willing to do it for less than what you're getting paid. If that's not true, you probably don't have to work anymore anyways. I work with a few tfw, some are good, some not so much, and a few are dangerous to the point where I'm kinda surprised they haven't killed themselves or someone else. But then again I know some Canadians like that too. i think Canadians should have first call even if they are junk.

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by Falltimeprimetime

Canadians first! That's it that's all. Everyone supporting them has to think there is someone more qualified, more experienced and willing to do it for less than what you're getting paid. If that's not true, you probably don't have to work anymore anyways. I work with a few tfw, some are good, some not so much, and a few are dangerous to the point where I'm kinda surprised they haven't killed themselves or someone else. But then again I know some Canadians like that too. i think Canadians should have first call even if they are junk.

Agreed. But....
Eliminate TFW permits and allow them to apply as immigrants. If they come over to make their lives better and to better their families then they should be given the chance to join our multicultural nation as any of the previous Canadians were allowed. Quit this use and abuse of them then send them home when we are done, unless they want to.

[bobalong]

[QUOTE=pottymouth;2737391]They are required to pay, The same amount as any other employee gets in the same position. /QUOTE]

They are required?......yet you could read almost weekly last year where employers were not doing this. Every time another employer is reported the Govt. states "it is just an isolated case" which is BS.

They are just not bothering to ensure this does not happen, and do not want to invest the dollars on staffing to ensure it doesn't. Employers know this, and more and more they keep rolling the dice, hoping that they wont get caught.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

So you split the Hours in half so you get 2 part time jobs so that you dont have to pay benefits and lower the wages so you wont get any quality candidates, thus ensuring that "No Canadians will apply"
I have seen employers say that "No Canadians applied" and I can tell you as the person on the front desk/dispatcher I had CANADIAN men and women walk in weekly and hand me their resumes which I personally reviewed and handed to HR and the owners and watched them throw them in the trash because they wanted to much $ and TWF and immigrants are lower wage earners.

So nobody applied for the Job posting..... exactly my point! thx

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

So you split the Hours in half so you get 2 part time jobs so that you dont have to pay benefits and lower the wages so you wont get any quality candidates, thus ensuring that "No Canadians will apply"
I have seen employers say that "No Canadians applied" and I can tell you as the person on the front desk/dispatcher I had CANADIAN men and women walk in weekly and hand me their resumes which I personally reviewed and handed to HR and the owners and watched them throw them in the trash because they wanted to much $ and TWF and immigrants are lower wage earners.

http://www.slaw.ca/2013/06/06/the-st...ing-in-canada/

[300magman]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

So you split the Hours in half so you get 2 part time jobs so that you dont have to pay benefits and lower the wages so you wont get any quality candidates, thus ensuring that "No Canadians will apply"
I have seen employers say that "No Canadians applied" and I can tell you as the person on the front desk/dispatcher I had CANADIAN men and women walk in weekly and hand me their resumes which I personally reviewed and handed to HR and the owners and watched them throw them in the trash because they wanted to much $ and TWF and immigrants are lower wage earners.

So what's the issue? They wanted too much money so they didn't get the job......again, this goes back to what I have been saying about people feeling they are entitled to more money than the position they are applying for is worth. If someone handed me a resume (and this happened many times) for an equipment operator and wants $40 an hr out of the gates without us even having seen how good they are, it goes in the garbage.....we have a policy of starting guys low, and after a one month period they are re evaluated and then paid accordingly based on their skills, because we have been bitten way to many times by guys who can't perform to the level they claim to be able to. Some guys are fine with this, and end up with a stable career, but lots tell us to pound sand, they want the big bucks right away....the problem isn't with the tfw's, it's with the attitude of so many that think they are entitled to big wages because of where we live. Seems as though the attitude of "work your way up" has been lost on a lot of people, and tfw's are an easy scapegoat as to why people don't get the wages the want (not deserve, but WANT).

There was a post on here not too long ago about someone looking for work, and they were so desperate they would take anything......obviously not, as there is plenty of work available, just possibly not for the $'s or in the field that the person was looking for.....prime example of not willing to work in a lesser job until something more suitable arises....this apparent desperate need for employment was due to attitude and nothing else.

The tfw's situation is abused in some instances I'm sure, but in large part they are just an outlet for people who feel they are entitled to more, more, more for doing less.

[hihi962]

There are so many abusers on both sides, i've hired 3 nanny's so far, and all 3 got pregnant as soon as they possibly could, one even came to us pre-impregnated, what a joke.
They have a huge immigrant support network which informs them how to work the system to the max! When you make $11/hr, you literally pay nothing in tax, I know, because I submit the T4's for them. As soon as they have their hours, they quit and go on unemployment/maternity leave (they are entitled to it) and they do get to stay here under the family visa. When a child is a canadian citizen and a minor, good luck sending the parent home. Each of our nanny's stayed here permanently after birth.
One really rooked the government, she had a premature baby, and got to stay with it in the hospital for 3 months all paid for, with meals! As she had no where to stay, no alberta health care, and our hospitals do not refuse care. We all paid for it.

I agree about the unsafe workers thing, my brother almost was killed, because a TFW gravel truck driver, drove across a divided hiway without remotely stopping. The guy couldnt speak English or French, how did he even get here? It must of been a family network who printed his class 1 licence also.

Then there are the employers, many completely bypass all canadians, going straight to TFW's, we all know this happens. But in the same sense, current wages cannot be sustained, many companies cannot achieve profitability with the expectations many canadians have. Being an employer myself, I do appreciate "SKILLED" TFW's, nearly all of the canadians I have interviewed have unreal wage expectations for the positions. Sounds bad, but with TFW's flooding the market, it will slowly bring some normalcy to wage rates. And all these so called "canadian journeymen" working on my equipment are a joke, i remember 15-20 years ago, Being old enough to shave was the prerequisite for becoming a journeyman, not anymore somehow. There are so many young guys working out there, which are in positions way more qualified then they are. I look forward to the slowdown, the herds need to be culled.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by 300magman

So what's the issue? They wanted too much money so they didn't get the job......again, this goes back to what I have been saying about people feeling they are entitled to more money than the position they are applying for is worth. If someone handed me a resume (and this happened many times) for an equipment operator and wants $40 an hr out of the gates without us even having seen how good they are, it goes in the garbage.....we have a policy of starting guys low, and after a one month period they are re evaluated and then paid accordingly based on their skills, because we have been bitten way to many times by guys who can't perform to the level they claim to be able to. Some guys are fine with this, and end up with a stable career, but lots tell us to pound sand, they want the big bucks right away....the problem isn't with the tfw's, it's with the attitude of so many that think they are entitled to big wages because of where we live. Seems as though the attitude of "work your way up" has been lost on a lot of people, and tfw's are an easy scapegoat as to why people don't get the wages the want (not deserve, but WANT).

There was a post on here not too long ago about someone looking for work, and they were so desperate they would take anything......obviously not, as there is plenty of work available, just possibly not for the $'s or in the field that the person was looking for.....prime example of not willing to work in a lesser job until something more suitable arises....this apparent desperate need for employment was due to attitude and nothing else.

The tfw's situation is abused in some instances I'm sure, but in large part they are just an outlet for people who feel they are entitled to more, more, more for doing less.

Couldn't the bolded part be said for companies trying to bolster their bottom line???? If they were told to work with what you have here in Canada they would change but because they're allowed to bring in cheaper labour through the TFW program they do....we've taken most if not all of our production overseas and the next step is import the cheaper labour....

[igorot]

Originally Posted by hihi962

There are so many abusers on both sides, i've hired 3 nanny's so far, and all 3 got pregnant as soon as they possibly could, one even came to us pre-impregnated, what a joke.


I agree about the unsafe workers thing, my brother almost was killed, because a TFW gravel truck driver, drove across a divided hiway without remotely stopping. The guy couldnt speak English or French, how did he even get here? It must of been a family network who printed his class 1 licence also.

.

And you entrust your kids care to this TFW's. Isn't that ironic.

Who do you think conducted the Class 1 test for this driver another TFW?

[igorot]

Originally Posted by Falltimeprimetime

Canadians first!.

Yup they should have done that long ago.

https://www.historicacanada.ca/conte...-minutes/nitro

Not defending any body but if they go by rules, for the betterment for this country why not. If they abuse the system, there is always a 1 way ticket to go back home.

[calgarychef]

So canadians won't do borderline jobs for peanuts because they can't survive on the minimum wage. Instead of raising the wages places like Tims etc. bring in TFW's. I dare anyone to try and live on minimum wage in alberta with our over inflated prices. It's not possible.

In order to DOUBLE wages Tims would have to increase the price of coffee by only 50 cents. Instead they use this program to shut out the albertans that need these jobs, then where can they turn? What's left after the minimum wage jobs are gone....welfare. This program is creating a huge long term problem.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Couldn't the bolded part be said for companies trying to bolster their bottom line???? If they were told to work with what you have here in Canada they would change but because they're allowed to bring in cheaper labour through the TFW program they do....we've taken most if not all of our production overseas and the next step is import the cheaper labour....

Having worked law enforcement have you considered many of them do speak wnglish quite possibly better than the majority if North Americans yet they revert back to their primary language when there's potential to be in trouble?? I know I've stopped many Europeans Hispanics French people and they all pretend to not understand so they can get out of a ticket. Only to say good bye in perfect English after I'm finished dealing with them.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

So canadians won't do borderline jobs for peanuts because they can't survive on the minimum wage. Instead of raising the wages places like Tims etc. bring in TFW's. I dare anyone to try and live on minimum wage in alberta with our over inflated prices. It's not possible.

In order to DOUBLE wages Tims would have to increase the price of coffee by only 50 cents. Instead they use this program to shut out the albertans that need these jobs, then where can they turn? What's left after the minimum wage jobs are gone....welfare. This program is creating a huge long term problem.

I have no idea how someone can live on minimum wage in the rest of Canada let alone in Fort Mac............house trailers are selling for 1/2 mil plus, 10-15k trailer at best anywhere else!!!!

I'm sure the TFWs working on the rigs aren't making minimum wage......or are they? I'm sure companies can do more for Canadians if they were required to. Take away the safety net they've been provided by the TFW program and they will..............and this is not to say the TFWs are not hard workers and aren't dedicated. But when you here Tim Horton franchise owners cry poverty and cant find local labour across Canada, then they should adjust and change to get workers and not use the TFW program as a back up or a crutch...same with other business owners.

[riden]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

So canadians won't do borderline jobs for peanuts because they can't survive on the minimum wage. Instead of raising the wages places like Tims etc. bring in TFW's. I dare anyone to try and live on minimum wage in alberta with our over inflated prices. It's not possible.

In order to DOUBLE wages Tims would have to increase the price of coffee by only 50 cents. Instead they use this program to shut out the albertans that need these jobs, then where can they turn? What's left after the minimum wage jobs are gone....welfare. This program is creating a huge long term problem.

Where are you getting your math?

Are you suggesting min wage should be $20/hr?

[1100winger]

That would be a good start. We should be discussing the true value of our labor not how little someone should make. Not too many 1%'ers in my neighbourhood, just good hard working folks with both Mom and Dad working to make ends meet; some I'll bet at minimum wage. If you raised the min wage to a liveable level I'd make a second bet that our economy would grow. Even the most hardened right wing economists are seeing the value of Keynesian economics which would go along way to minimizing the ups and downs of the Canadian economy.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by chasingtail

BS, who actually checks that no Canadians applied? For all you know they had a thousand people apply but they lie and say they had none. I read my local paper all the time, never see Tim Hortons advertise in the Classifieds.
Like I said a 100 times you can't pay a wage that attracts Canadians, shut-er down.

Exactly. If you can't pay a living wage for full time workers then you shouldn't be in business. Why is it at least in this town all the fast food restaurants have local born in Canada workers working with a few TFW's mixed in, yet Tim Hortons has only TFW's working there. Tim hortons is a scab outfit, besides you can get better donuts at any gas station.

[flint guy]

Tfw are some of the most interesting, hard working, and ethical people I have worked with. They are also some of the laziest, ignorant and imoral people too... As are the resident workers who were born here. People suck, and can be great from any walk of life or region of the world. That being said, hope its not to hard replacing them with the un interested and unemployable members of the ei and welfare work force if they start going home. Alot of high salary management jobs are on the block now, not just the typical tfw mid to low level positions.

I commend some of them for the efforts they put in, working like a slave to send money home. I would prefer to see that money spent here but oh well. Arent we all just trying to feed our loved ones? Some like a fellow at work recieves all his income tax back in his first year of employment... Food for thought. They are not eligable for any medical, ei, etc, but do travel our roads and use our utility's to get to work. I know the irishman at work now is the best of at least 30 citizen and foriegn workers in the last year at my work. I hope he stays.
If some overpaid underskilled management lost their sense of entitlement, and raised workers wages and decreased the 250K salaries for answering the phone, then local workers would be easier to find. If some entitled workers realised what their skill set was worth, not what they think its worth, there would be more willingness to fill these jobs. Thats a social issue though. Temporarily entitled workers.