Oil tanks derail in the Crowsnest

[AlbertaCutthroat]

Could be along the lake next time....sketchy...

[rugatika]

Yup, thank God it wasn't in a pipeline.

[357Maximum]

Or a bunch of trucks

Maybe we should just stop exporting oil

[twofifty]

A pipeline won't derail but when it breaks (not if but when) the flow goes on till the break is picked up by pressure or flow sensors. That can mean delays during which a lot of cumulative damage is done to a watershed. Containment measures are delayed.

A rail tank car will eventually derail, in ones or by the dozen. There is no flow, the damage to a watershed is from whatever those tanks held. The event is immediately known and containment measures are speeded.

It it known which method presents the least net risk to the environment?

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by TBD

protesting pipelines ?

every time this happens I feel like choking one of these left-tards OUT, oil should be shipped via the safest method and kept off our roads and rail lines ....

^^^^^This!

[blackpheasant]

Originally Posted by twofifty;2736202[B

]A pipeline won't derail but when it breaks (not if but when) [/B]the flow goes on till the break is picked up by pressure or flow sensors. That can mean delays during which a lot of cumulative damage is done to a watershed. Containment measures are delayed.

A rail tank car will eventually derail, in ones or by the dozen. There is no flow, the damage to a watershed is from whatever those tanks held. The event is immediately known and containment measures are speeded.

It it known which method presents the least net risk to the environment?

Did you know the Trans Mountain pipeline from Edmonton to Vancouver harbour has been shipping crude oil since the 50's without spilling anything and todays pipeline integrity is much better

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by blackpheasant

Did you know the Trans Mountain pipeline from Edmonton to Vancouver harbour has been shipping crude oil since the 50's without spilling anything and todays pipeline integrity is much better

What about those two Apache pipelines near High Level that ruptured a few years back. think they were 5-7 years old.

Transmountian has had a few spills too btw, mostly very small from faulty valves.

[leeaspell]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

What about those two Apache pipelines near High Level that ruptured a few years back. think they were 5-7 years old.

Transmountian has had a few spills too btw, mostly very small from faulty valves.

20%+ sour produced water is a lot harder on a line than sweet crude.

[kritz]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Isn't that yellow label for chemical spills?

How about the 50 % sodium hydroxide sticker beside it ???

Yes they still use 1267 placards if it is crude oil

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by leeaspell

20%+ sour produced water is a lot harder on a line than sweet crude.

Not arguing that point. I've worked with 13-18% sour before glad I'm in a sweet facility now. was just pointing out that even new lines fail even with all the improvements over the past several decades. there was a sweet gas line near my old plant that ruptured, it was >10 years old.

accidents happen, though most are avoidable.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by leeaspell

20%+ sour produced water is a lot harder on a line than sweet crude.

True and comparing the two pipelines is like comparing a corvette and a bicycle. Both move people. Both have wheels.

Some people miss or ignore the differences to try and make a point.

I read complaints.

I read nimby comments.

I see no one suggesting any constructive solutions...even hopeful guesses.

Fact is we need to ship many products. Pipelines are safest. Rail next safest. Tractor trailers least safe.

We can mitigate against problems.

When problems happen we can understand why and correct them.

We can prosectute against intentional damage.

Or...we can just stop driving, heating our homes, wearing cheap clothes, buying cheap goods, eating cheap food, having kids and going on vacations....

[no-regard]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Go re read my post!
Especially the last sentence!
Then apologize!

Rail safety is the issue.
Bringing up an un placarded shipment isn't.
Naming a product that isn't there is presumptuous rhetoric for the ill informed.

Originally Posted by Dick284

Empty and purged, or a non dangerous product.

Take some TDG training.... Before flapping your lips.

Originally Posted by Dick284

Wrong!

Wow, really living up to your handle in these few posts. Must be nice to be so smart and feel free to talk down to others, even when they're just stating their own opinion on a topic.

I can't help but feel YOU owe the OP an apology.


ETA: Maybe my post is off topic, not sure, if so I apologize. I'm just getting really tired of all the self righteousness around here lately.

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by blackpheasant

Did you know the Trans Mountain pipeline from Edmonton to Vancouver harbour has been shipping crude oil since the 50's without spilling anything and todays pipeline integrity is much better

I always thought that line was much older, in any regard, not a spill by normal wear and tear rupture;

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The three companies responsible for a 2007 oil spill in a residential area in Burnaby, B.C., entered guilty pleas in Vancouver on Monday.

Two contractors and Trans Mountain Pipeline, the company that owns the pipeline, each entered guilty pleas under a 21-count indictment in B.C. Provincial Court.

The charges come under the Environmental Management Act and essentially add up to introducing pollution into the environment.

The Crown is looking for each of the three companies to pay a $1,000 fine and to make a $149,000 contribution to the Habitat Conservation Trust Foundation, which works to protect B.C.'s fish, wildlife and habitats.

Trans Mountain Pipeline will also be asked to contribute $100,000 to an educational and training program.

The sentences are expected to be handed down later this month.

mi-bc-burnaby-oil-spill-cp-3347619
The oil spilled into Burrard Inlet, contaminating the water. (Rafal Gerszak/Canadian Press)

An excavator working on a sewage line pierced a pipeline in July 2007, releasing more than 250,000 litres of crude oil. About 70,000 litres flowed into Burrard Inlet, sparking a $15-million cleanup.

Crude oil also sprayed 11 houses on Inlet Drive and caused a large evacuation of the area, forcing 250 residents from their homes.

A report released by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada in 2009 concluded a lack of communication was one of the main factors that contributed to the break.

The report said a lack of respect for on-site pre-construction procedures and inadequate communication compromised the safe operation of the pipeline.

The report found the pipeline was not accurately represented on the contractor's design drawings, which were based on a 1957 drawing

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I read nimby comments.

After seeing how Alberta's backyard is treated by reading one of the many illegal dumping, or picking up your garbage threads and associated comments of similar finds from members scattered across the province that are easily found on just this site can you blame people for those comments?

Seriously, if there was as much effort and resources devoted to finding and developing an alternative power source and related infrastructure that was devoted to the Manhattan Project oil would be obsolete in a decade or two and only used in remote settings and the development of new infrastructure.

I've come across a few papers proposing orbital solar collectors which transfer power to the ground via microwaves for the past few years. it's not impossible, only improbable in a profit driven society.

[husky hunter]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I don't see any TDG placards!



Unless they say 1267, and are red, it isn't Petroleum Crude Oil.

I really wonder if it actually is Crude oil?

Absence of any placards, which I can't see in these pictures could indicate clean and empty tank cars!

Yes rail safety could be better, but whipping things up around a potential non event such as empty cars de railing is just ludicrous.

If they were heading west they were not empty.

The railroads have adopted a zero maintenance policy. Most derailments are not known to the public. They are happening all the time....cheaper to clean up than maintain the tracks.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

After seeing how Alberta's backyard is treated by reading one of the many illegal dumping, or picking up your garbage threads and associated comments of similar finds from members scattered across the province that are easily found on just this site can you blame people for those comments?

Seriously, if there was as much effort and resources devoted to finding and developing an alternative power source and related infrastructure that was devoted to the Manhattan Project oil would be obsolete in a decade or two and only used in remote settings and the development of new infrastructure.

I've come across a few papers proposing orbital solar collectors which transfer power to the ground via microwaves for the past few years. it's not impossible, only improbable in a profit driven society.

You don't think their is lots of research and development project on alternative fuels?

You are so wrong. Do an Internet search. You will be amazed. You may even find oil companies investing.

Have you ever stopped to think pipelines are very needed because simply there is no better alternative. In fact oil is responsible for preventing infant deaths, feeding billions, providing clean water for billions...

Yes...there is profit...not much though...lots of spending...tons of jobs...improved standard of living...and then some.

If their was better power sources they would be used. Solar very expensive and unreliable. Take up huge footprint and disrupts animal habitat. Wind even more unreliable and expensive and only good in very limited spots. Also millions of birds and bats are killed every year. I know for a fact you would not live below a turbine. Tidal...limited and very high maintenance costs. Hydrogen fuel cell...proved did not work economically. Nuclear...only one that works well...however one needs to dispose of nuclear waste.

Put your money were your mouth lives and go online right now and pay the large premium to go totally green power. If you really believed you would lead by example. Sell your car/truck today and buy a Prius. Give away all polyester clothes and use only cotton and wool. Don't buy anything with plastic. Buy solar panels for your house. Only buy local foods from Alberta and nothing processed. Don't use an airplane again.

And have fun.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by twofifty

A pipeline won't derail but when it breaks (not if but when) the flow goes on till the break is picked up by pressure or flow sensors. That can mean delays during which a lot of cumulative damage is done to a watershed. Containment measures are delayed.

A rail tank car will eventually derail, in ones or by the dozen. There is no flow, the damage to a watershed is from whatever those tanks held. The event is immediately known and containment measures are speeded.

It it known which method presents the least net risk to the environment?

A unit train of 10000 m3 will take 8 days to travel across the country to a eastern refinery.
It takes 8 hours to load a unit train.
A pipeline will move oil at a flow rate of 4500 m3/ hr all day long.
Oil by rail is a drop in the ocean compared to volumes moved by pipeline.
You have to consider the amount of oil that arrives at its destination before deciding which method of transport is the safest.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

I was woken upby a huge bang crash around 4AM.

Went to get some valentines day goodies for the kids....

Drove by this in frank


All kinds of emergency services out

Looks like two cars.... And no spillage.

This is the third derailment in the Pass in three years.

This could have been OUR Lac Megantic....

Wonder if anyone will notice?

All three derailments have been within less than 1k from the Crowsnest river.

What do you propose being done to stop your lac megantic? I can tell you with all certainty that they have made big changes with Transport Canada enacting quite a few new rules.

What exactly was done wrong here?

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Dick, if cars were empty a train derailment is fine, no cause for concern?
Geez, the pass is a beautiful place and I would be asking questions with that many mishaps.
I believe placards on rail cars were removed many years ago, for security purposes. There is a container number now you need to call in to know the contents.

Wrong. All Dg must be placarded.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by bobly

Was just at the site. The train was pulling west so it was going very slow. It looks like the whole train is made up of those new, upgraded oil tankers. I have never seen a train like this before, a complete oil train very long and very heavy. Usually Canadian Pathetic has a few tankers together, then some boxcars etc. then some more tankers and so on. I guess the "other" cars act like buffers in an accident. I hope these tanker trains are not going to be the norm!

Seeing the train like this and living close to the line in the Pass makes me realize that transporting oil by train is bull****. We dodged the bullet this time. Is there going to be another time, much worse, like Megantic in the Pass? Is the Crowsnest River going to catch hell? Get the bloody pipeline to the coast built and fast! CPR, shame on you for trying to pull such a heavy dangerous train!!!!! Greed, just pure greed in my view!

Um...

Greed? How about the economy shuts down with out either railway.

How about because people screamed about having a pipeline, now this is the only option for mass transport of oil.

What exactly did the railway do wrong? The line has been there since the 1800's. When did you get there?

Could you not say the same about Turtle mountain coming down on the town of Frank? The mining company's greed cause the death of many.

Spin however you want. That train takes 200 semi trucks off your highways making it safer.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by bobly

Canadian Pathetic does not normally carry empty crude oil tanker cars west. They are generally full and heavy! The engines work like hell due to the uphill grade When they return to Alberta the trains are going like blazes due to their light loads and reverse grade. This is all bull**** in motion, transporting oil by rail!

Again. Nothing was done wrong. Why not wait for the TC investigation before throwing out wild accusations and spouting off.

The safety standards are upheld. TC makes sure of it, now more than ever. Just had a chat with them today.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

True and comparing the two pipelines is like comparing a corvette and a bicycle. Both move people. Both have wheels.

Some people miss or ignore the differences to try and make a point.

I read complaints.

I read nimby comments.

I see no one suggesting any constructive solutions...even hopeful guesses.

Fact is we need to ship many products. Pipelines are safest. Rail next safest. Tractor trailers least safe.

We can mitigate against problems.

When problems happen we can understand why and correct them.

We can prosectute against intentional damage.

Or...we can just stop driving, heating our homes, wearing cheap clothes, buying cheap goods, eating cheap food, having kids and going on vacations....

Well said

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by husky hunter

If they were heading west they were not empty.

The railroads have adopted a zero maintenance policy. Most derailments are not known to the public. They are happening all the time....cheaper to clean up than maintain the tracks.

Incorrect. Completely. And I don't think so, I know so.

There are millions spent on maintenance. Yearly. New ballast, new ties, new rail. Daily and weekly patrols looking for different things. 5 days a week section crews doing maintenance. Things happen. Always will.

Next, accidents fall into two categories. FRA reportable and non FRA.

This is an FRA reportable, as well, once a crude oil car details, all product must be trans loaded and the car junked or put in for major repair.

I've seen many derailments. 99% are reportable. Period.

[cranky]

Cant find much on Google about this but does anyone think or know if the length these trains are getting to has anything to do with so many derailments lately. They are crazy long. Bet it takes a while to even be felt if one derails say way at the back. Just wondering.

[roper1]

I don't know what constitutes a little or a lot of maintenance, but I see maintenance machines on the tracks by me frequently. There is also a lot of man-eyes out there inspecting facilities on a very regular basis. If there was a derailment on that line, I would think no more of it than if there was an accident on a well-maintained highway. Stuff happens!!

[HalfBreed]

over

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbur...-ont-1.2959067

Yikes.

[wasteland.soldier]

Originally Posted by TBD

protesting pipelines ?

every time this happens I feel like choking one of these left-tards OUT, oil should be shipped via the safest method and kept off our roads and rail lines ....

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
x1000000000000000

[Nester]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbur...ment-1.2958601


http://time.com/3711335/west-virgini...in-derailment/

[bessiedog]

Connexion....,

Go shove your hubris into your closet...
Frankly it's not welcome here...!

3 derailments in3-4 years ALL WITHIn 2K of each other..! Under no circumstances is a reasonable risk to the public from a private corporation doing business.

I suggest:

1. Transport Canada is either giving you increased got air with their increased monitoring... Or you are their spokesperson. Either way... Your 'expertising' holds no water here... Stick to bible thumping.


2. A private corporation that has defacto monopoly powers on it's delivered service AND is a slave to a corporate profit mandate is a recipe for disaster for our environment..... Simple as that. You cannot let monopolistic coprporations exist.
A damaging spill is only a matter of time.....!

Mark the time and date.... Give it 1-2 years.. It'll happen! If it does not.. Show up in my doorstep and demand a beer... I'll gladly pay if I'm wrong.

#3. GET a DAMN pipeline built. Now!
I mean now. Stop being stupid folks!


..... So yea... Prolly gettin banned now. So be it.

Sundance... I'm not pulling a nimby. Pointing out the rediculous risk we are taking with a blue ribbon fishery that happens to be out my back door is all I'm doing. We as Albertans need to seriously stop selling our precious resouces for do cheap and taking on such an incredible risk to our environment for jobs.

I'm more choked at the lack of safety oversight... And the rediculous use of rail to move oil, when we know it's a dumb dangerous move.

There.....! Me rant!

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Connexion....,

Go shove your hubris into your closet...
Frankly it's not welcome here...!

3 derailments in3-4 years ALL WITHIn 2K of each other..!

I suggest:

1. Transport Canada is either giving you increased got air with their increased monitoring... Or you are their spokesperson. Either way... Your 'expertising' hold no water here... Stick to bible thumping.


2. A private corporation that has defacto monopoly powers on tge service AND is a slave to a corporate profit mandate is a recipe for disaster for our environment..... Simple as that. You cannot let monopolistic coprporations exist.
A damaging spill is only a matter of time.....!

Mark the time and date.... Give it 1-2 years.. It'll happen! If it does not.. Show up in my doorstep and demand a beer... I'll gladly pay if I'm wrong.

#3. GET a DAMN pipeline built. Now!
I mean now. Stop being stupid folks!


..... So yea... Prolly gettin banned now. So be it.

Sundance... I'm not pulling a nimby. Pointing out the rediculous risk we are taking with a blue ribbon fishery that happens to be out my back door.

I'm more choked at the lack of safety oversight... And the rediculous use of rail to move oil, when we know it's a dumb dangerous move.

I work for a railway in a high enough position. I know what I'm talking about. You shove yours in your wherever. Quite frankly, your alarmist rearming wring is not welcome.

Personally attacking my beliefs is a non point as you say bible thumping. I take great offence to that and I'll report your post as it is malicious.

Frankly, you're right to want a pipeline, but a coward for bringing religion into this. Good day to you.